New here with pre-diabetic cat, need help with treats please

[tobyo]

Greetings. Some nice folks on The Cat Site suggested I check out this forum.

My darling boy Frankie was diagnosed as pre-diabetic and we started giving him insulin shots this week. We were pretty nervous at first but so far, so good!! He's getting 1 unit every 12 hours of Pro Zinc insulin.

I actually have two questions. The first is about treats. This has always been part of his routine and I thought I had found a good treat(Get Naked brand) because it said "grain-free". I was just going to order some more of them and happened to look at the ingredients and I see sweet potato?? Which does have carbs darn it!! Now, I only give him 3 of those a night so maybe I haven't "ruined" anything? OTOH, at least I caught it now? I'm going to bring the other bag back. The other brand that I found at Target is Blue Cat Bakery and it clearly says "purrfect protein treats for cats" and the ingredients are salmon and vegetable glycerin so I THINK these are okay? Yes? Just googled glycerin and it sounds like it's to keep the treats moist. We are feeding him canned food so we're good there for protein only. Does anyone have suggestions for other protein only treats?

My other question is about the possibility of him going into remission. Can someone tell me how that works please? Our vet made it sound like this is pretty rare but I've read on The Cat Site the opposite? Since he's pre-diabetic (blood glucose was in the high 300s). I don't know what his fructosamine number was but it was also not normal.

thanks for any help. I appreciate it greatly.

Here's my boy Frankie:

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

Freeze dried treats with a single ingredient are low carb. Orijen and Pure Bites come to mind - but I'm not in the US.

Some cats become regulated but never achieve remission. However, since 2008 over 500 cats on this forum have gone into remission.

Baby is the most recent cat to go into remission.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/otj-party-for-baby-today.279646/#post-3089156

Are you home testing? Home testing is the only way to keep your cat safe and it is essential to figuring out the best dose for a cat.

Some initial reading for you.
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

Low carb food list:

• Cat Food - Nutritional Composition, data compiled by Dr. Lisa Pierson, DVM (2017)

And just in case:

• How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!
• jojo and bunny's HYPO TOOL BOX

And any questions you have, just ask. We are a pretty dedicated bunch and can guide you every step of the way.

 

[tobyo]

Thank you so much for your reply. Our vet, rather the tech that showed us how to give the shots, told us the glucose monitor was optional. After reading replies on my post on The Cat Site and here, I think I will get one. The vet told us to bring him in after 8-10 days on insulin and 12 hours after a shot so we're doing that next Wednesday. And hopefully I didn't doo too much harm with the wrong treats, ugh.

I tried freeze dried treats and he wouldn't touch them. Thanks for the other information. I will check them out.

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

A bit of tuna or cooked plain chicken (no onion, no garlic) works too.

 

[tobyo]

A bit of tuna or cooked plain chicken (no onion, no garlic) works too.

When we first adopted him at 3 years old, he would not eat. We finally gave him some tuna and on another forum people there said to NOT give him tuna. And they were emphatic about that. I'm not trying to be contrary but it's confusing to get contradictory advice.........

We have given previous cats human meats like turkey and chicken, like from our plates. Frankie has never been interested in human food. Well, he did enjoy that tuna 5 years ago and it did get him off his food strike. He was extremely stressed when we brought him home. He's the most sensitive cat I've ever had, which also makes him very lovable.

 

[tobyo]

And I have to make a correction: vet said he is borderline diabetic and not pre-diabetic ‍

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

No offense to your vet but your cat is diabetic. Normal blood glucose range is 50 - 120. If you're getting levels in the 300s, those are diabetic numbers. In humans, borderline diabetics generally are not prescribed insulin. Once you're on insulin, you (or your cat) are getting a prescription for a diagnosable condition. No matter what we call it, Frankie (who is adorable!!) needs to be on insulin.

A few words about food. Just because a food is labeled as grain free doesn't mean that it's low in carbs. Likewise, not all canned foods are low in carbs. This is a link to a site that has great information on feline nutrition. The site also has a chart that lists most of the canned foods that are available in the US. The vet who authored the site, Lisa Pierson, DVM, includes nutritional information on the chart. (It looks like this has already been linked for you.) We consider low carb as under 10% although most members here feed their cat foods that are in the 5% range. There are lots of choices!! Many people feed their cats Fancy Feast or Friskies pate style foods. There are other options and foods that have other textures since Frankie is picky.

In all likelihood, the advice you were given about tuna was based on a couple of issues. A heavy fish-based diet is not recommended due to the mercury levels in fish. It's OK once or twice a week but not an exclusive diet. Cats also like fish. The problem is that they can like it so much they will refuse to eat anything else.

Cats can and do go into remission like Kel (Red & Rover) noted. The sooner the diabetes is treated and a cat gets into better blood glucose numbers, the better the chance of remission. Unlike with humans, a cat's pancreas can start working again. What you typically see is that your cat's insulin needs begin to decrease. This is one of the reasons we push people to home test. If you rely only on curves at the vet's office, there's a good chance that your cat is stressed by being there and numbers will be artificially high. This can lead to overdosing your cat since the dose is based on an inflated curve. If you are testing at home, your cat is in his own environment and far less stressed. The numbers will be more accurate. Kel mentioned Baby going into remission. This is what Baby's spreadsheet looks like. It will give you an idea of what remission looks like by the number. While most of us want to see our cats go into remission, it doesn't always happen. The skills that you learn to manage your cat's diabetes will help to get your cat regulated even if remission isn't in the cards.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Bobo is on remission. I already had experience from Minnie so I knew what to do when he became diabetic and with the help of the folks here, he went into remission in May. Prozinc is a great insulin so your odds are good with that. Bobo was on Lantus and we followed the TR protocol which has the highest remission rate. With prozinc, you can follow the modified TR. the only way you’ll get your cat into remission though, is if you’re home testing. With TR, you adjust the dose every 3 days and there’s no way you can do that with spot cheek or curves at the vet only.

I suggest you read all the yellow sticky notes on the prozinc forum, especially the one on the dosing methods: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Freeze dried treats like PureBites and VitalEssential or really any other brand are good. I believe most of the lickable sticks are also low carb but it’s good to double check. Inaba Churo also makes tuna filets and I think Applaws makes chicken ones too

 

[tobyo]

No offense to your vet but your cat is diabetic. Normal blood glucose range is 50 - 120. If you're getting levels in the 300s, those are diabetic numbers. In humans, borderline diabetics generally are not prescribed insulin. Once you're on insulin, you (or your cat) are getting a prescription for a diagnosable condition. No matter what we call it, Frankie (who is adorable!!) needs to be on insulin.

A few words about food. Just because a food is labeled as grain free doesn't mean that it's low in carbs. Likewise, not all canned foods are low in carbs. This is a link to a site that has great information on feline nutrition. The site also has a chart that lists most of the canned foods that are available in the US. The vet who authored the site, Lisa Pierson, DVM, includes nutritional information on the chart. (It looks like this has already been linked for you.) We consider low carb as under 10% although most members here feed their cat foods that are in the 5% range. There are lots of choices!! Many people feed their cats Fancy Feast or Friskies pate style foods. There are other options and foods that have other textures since Frankie is picky.

In all likelihood, the advice you were given about tuna was based on a couple of issues. A heavy fish-based diet is not recommended due to the mercury levels in fish. It's OK once or twice a week but not an exclusive diet. Cats also like fish. The problem is that they can like it so much they will refuse to eat anything else.

Cats can and do go into remission like Kel (Red & Rover) noted. The sooner the diabetes is treated and a cat gets into better blood glucose numbers, the better the chance of remission. Unlike with humans, a cat's pancreas can start working again. What you typically see is that your cat's insulin needs begin to decrease. This is one of the reasons we push people to home test. If you rely only on curves at the vet's office, there's a good chance that your cat is stressed by being there and numbers will be artificially high. This can lead to overdosing your cat since the dose is based on an inflated curve. If you are testing at home, your cat is in his own environment and far less stressed. The numbers will be more accurate. Kel mentioned Baby going into remission. This is what Baby's spreadsheet looks like. It will give you an idea of what remission looks like by the number. While most of us want to see our cats go into remission, it doesn't always happen. The skills that you learn to manage your cat's diabetes will help to get your cat regulated even if remission isn't in the cards.

ha, about offending our vet. I was pretty unhappy with that clinic a couple of years ago and wanted to change but hubby refused. and so, here we are. I think he might be getting closer to moving to another clinic. Interestingly, we've had to change our boarding place because they don't do medications. We have an appointment set up for next week at another clinic(in order to board him there where they do give medications) and I'm really hoping hubby will say "let's switch to them". But, this vet said that numbers in the 400s "is" diabetic. So that isn't accurate either? smh.....

Thanks for all the great information! I'll be checking it out. This is all so overwhelming.

 

[tobyo]

Bobo is on remission. I already had experience from Minnie so I knew what to do when he became diabetic and with the help of the folks here, he went into remission in May. Prozinc is a great insulin so your odds are good with that. Bobo was on Lantus and we followed the TR protocol which has the highest remission rate. With prozinc, you can follow the modified TR. the only way you’ll get your cat into remission though, is if you’re home testing. With TR, you adjust the dose every 3 days and there’s no way you can do that with spot cheek or curves at the vet only.

I suggest you read all the yellow sticky notes on the prozinc forum, especially the one on the dosing methods: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/

Thank you. What is the TR protocol? I don't know that acronym.

 

[tobyo]

Sienne and Gabby (GA): I forgot to add something about those treats that weren't 100% protein and food in general. Frankie was previously on Royal Canin Urinary SO because he had crystals in his urine when we adopted him. So, the food this vet prescribed also takes that into account. However, it's DARN expensive!!! Three times the cost of the Royal Canin food.

The treats that contained sweet potatoes: in looking at the nutritional information, carbs isn't even in the list! So I'm thinking there's probably not many carbs in them so whew? I think whew anyway.

 

[tobyo]

Freeze dried treats like PureBites and VitalEssential or really any other brand are good. I believe most of the lickable sticks are also low carb but it’s good to double check. Inaba Churo also makes tuna filets and I think Applaws makes chicken ones too

I got freeze-dried treats at first and he wouldn't touch them. I gave those and the ones with sweet potatoes listed as an ingredient to my daughter yesterday for her cat to hopefully enjoy.

Lickable....I've seen those in the store but hesitate to buy them because, well, Frankie is picky and I can't see that he'd like those either. I appreciate the help and recommendations.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

The information on the feline nutrition website that I linked has information on urinary tract issues such as crystals. Dr. Lisa's one word when it comes to all things kidney or bladder related is "water." This is the link to her information on urinary tract issues. My cats are on a diet that is a combination of raw food and canned. I add water to their food every single time they are fed.

 

[tobyo]

The information on the feline nutrition website that I linked has information on urinary tract issues such as crystals. Dr. Lisa's one word when it comes to all things kidney or bladder related is "water." This is the link to her information on urinary tract issues. My cats are on a diet that is a combination of raw food and canned. I add water to their food every single time they are fed.

actually? your first link(labeled feline nutrition) is linked to my post here so.....?

I did look at the other one with nutritional info before so thanks for that too. And neither of the treats that we've been giving him are on that list......

 

[tobyo]

In looking at the nutritional info, it's labeled 2017(but dated 12/3/18)? Is there a more recent list than one from 6 years ago?

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Thank you. What is the TR protocol? I don't know that acronym.

As I suggested, you’ll want to read all the yellow sticky notes on the link I posted, but especially the one on dosing as it explains the dosing protocols so you can understand how each works and choose the best one for you and your cat. TR stands for tight regulation

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

The food chart only contains information on most canned foods available in the US. In order to get the information, Dr. Lisa has to contact the pet food manufacturers for the "as fed" values. Not all of the companies will provide the information. There's an explanation as to how she gathers the information on Commercial Cat Foods on her website.

There is no information regarding almost all of the dry foods or on treats. She has a note at the top of the chart that no dry foods are included. With regard to treats, read the content. Treats should contain only protein. Most people here use a freeze dried protein -- such as chicken. Any protein will work whether it's freeze dried air dried or not dried at all.

The current chart is the most up to date version we have. It is a huge task to update this list. It's over 60 pages of information. It means contacting every pet food company on the list and getting the nutritional profile of every canned cat food product they make. It is an enormous and very time consuming task and not something I would want to do. There may be additional information in this post.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

I got freeze-dried treats at first and he wouldn't touch them. I gave those and the ones with sweet potatoes listed as an ingredient to my daughter yesterday for her cat to hopefully enjoy.

Lickable....I've seen those in the store but hesitate to buy them because, well, Frankie is picky and I can't see that he'd like those either. I appreciate the help and recommendations.

You’re going to have to try a few before you find one he likes. When you tried freeze dried, did you try all the different proteins? Chicken, turkey, salmon, shrimp, there’s a minnow one both my cats go crazy for by VitalEssential

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

If you’re looking at a specific treat, the best thing to do is to contact the manufacturer and ask, if it’s not listed on their website. If you look them up on Chewy, sometimes under questions folks may have already asked and Chewy will list the answer.

 

[tobyo]

A few words about food. Just because a food is labeled as grain free doesn't mean that it's low in carbs. Likewise, not all canned foods are low in carbs. This is a link to a site that has great information on feline nutrition.

Here's the link to the site, in case anyone else might be interested. (the link that I quoted from an earlier post links back to my post here)

 

[tobyo]

You’re going to have to try a few before you find one he likes. When you tried freeze dried, did you try all the different proteins? Chicken, turkey, salmon, shrimp, there’s a minnow one both my cats go crazy for by VitalEssential

We tried chicken and salmon and he didn't like either. Thanks for the information

 

[tobyo]

If you’re looking at a specific treat, the best thing to do is to contact the manufacturer and ask, if it’s not listed on their website. If you look them up on Chewy, sometimes under questions folks may have already asked and Chewy will list the answer.

Thanks!

 

[Snickers and Chrissy]

Greetings. Some nice folks on The Cat Site suggested I check out this forum.

My darling boy Frankie was diagnosed as pre-diabetic and we started giving him insulin shots this week. We were pretty nervous at first but so far, so good!! He's getting 1 unit every 12 hours of Pro Zinc insulin.

I actually have two questions. The first is about treats. This has always been part of his routine and I thought I had found a good treat(Get Naked brand) because it said "grain-free". I was just going to order some more of them and happened to look at the ingredients and I see sweet potato?? Which does have carbs darn it!! Now, I only give him 3 of those a night so maybe I haven't "ruined" anything? OTOH, at least I caught it now? I'm going to bring the other bag back. The other brand that I found at Target is Blue Cat Bakery and it clearly says "purrfect protein treats for cats" and the ingredients are salmon and vegetable glycerin so I THINK these are okay? Yes? Just googled glycerin and it sounds like it's to keep the treats moist. We are feeding him canned food so we're good there for protein only. Does anyone have suggestions for other protein only treats?

My other question is about the possibility of him going into remission. Can someone tell me how that works please? Our vet made it sound like this is pretty rare but I've read on The Cat Site the opposite? Since he's pre-diabetic (blood glucose was in the high 300s). I don't know what his fructosamine number was but it was also not normal.

thanks for any help. I appreciate it greatly.

Here's my boy Frankie:

Frankie is adorable!

Just to chime in with my personal experience, my cat Snickers went into remission after about three months on insulin (Lantus). She was in remission about 3.5 years and recently fell out of it due to some new health issues. But she is very well regulated and we're hoping for another remission. If not, that's ok too as long as she's happy and healthy.

I'm sure every vet's experience is different, but when Snickers was first diagnosed my vet told me that in her personal experience, about 50% of her cat patients went into remission. So to me it always seemed like a real possibility. I don't know if she would still say that, but that's what she told me at the time.

She's an excellent vet though and told me all about home testing, though she left it to me if I wanted to do that or not. She also recommended a very good insulin with Lantus, whereas other vets prescribe bad insulins like Vetsulin. Prozinc is a good one and I believe cats can achieve remission on it as well. Just don't ever let a vet switch you to Vetsulin. Remission is unlikely on Vetsulin, and it can have negative effects.

For treats I like Whole Life and Pure Bites salmon or tuna. I have been using tuna for years and have no problems, but I prefer salmon because it has less mercury. Snickers has an allergy to poultry so her treats are limited to fish, though I mix up her food with rabbit, pork, and fish.

She has very few teeth so I take the freeze dried treats and grind them up in a coffee grinder, then mix the powder with water to make it more soupy. She likes it that way.

Hope some of this helps!

 

[Snickers and Chrissy]

Greetings. Some nice folks on The Cat Site suggested I check out this forum.

My darling boy Frankie was diagnosed as pre-diabetic and we started giving him insulin shots this week. We were pretty nervous at first but so far, so good!! He's getting 1 unit every 12 hours of Pro Zinc insulin.

I actually have two questions. The first is about treats. This has always been part of his routine and I thought I had found a good treat(Get Naked brand) because it said "grain-free". I was just going to order some more of them and happened to look at the ingredients and I see sweet potato?? Which does have carbs darn it!! Now, I only give him 3 of those a night so maybe I haven't "ruined" anything? OTOH, at least I caught it now? I'm going to bring the other bag back. The other brand that I found at Target is Blue Cat Bakery and it clearly says "purrfect protein treats for cats" and the ingredients are salmon and vegetable glycerin so I THINK these are okay? Yes? Just googled glycerin and it sounds like it's to keep the treats moist. We are feeding him canned food so we're good there for protein only. Does anyone have suggestions for other protein only treats?

My other question is about the possibility of him going into remission. Can someone tell me how that works please? Our vet made it sound like this is pretty rare but I've read on The Cat Site the opposite? Since he's pre-diabetic (blood glucose was in the high 300s). I don't know what his fructosamine number was but it was also not normal.

thanks for any help. I appreciate it greatly.

Here's my boy Frankie:

Just wanted to add that as others have said, 300s is definitely diabetic. Not borderline. I don't know why your vet would say otherwise. Weird!

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

If your vet has not started insulin and your kitty has blood glucose in the 300s, I would highly recommend you get a bottle of Ketostix to test the urine for ketones. Diabetic cats that are not receiving insulin can form ketones in the urine/blood which can quickly get worse if insulin is not commenced. And this can be very serious.
It is not hard to do the test. Just make sure you read the result at exactly 15 seconds after dipping the strip into the urine against the colours on the side of the bottle. You can buy a bottle of the Ketostix at Walmarts or any pharmacy.

 

[tobyo]

Frankie is adorable!

Just to chime in with my personal experience, my cat Snickers went into remission after about three months on insulin (Lantus). She was in remission about 3.5 years and recently fell out of it due to some new health issues. But she is very well regulated and we're hoping for another remission. If not, that's ok too as long as she's happy and healthy.

I'm sure every vet's experience is different, but when Snickers was first diagnosed my vet told me that in her personal experience, about 50% of her cat patients went into remission. So to me it always seemed like a real possibility. I don't know if she would still say that, but that's what she told me at the time.

She's an excellent vet though and told me all about home testing, though she left it to me if I wanted to do that or not. She also recommended a very good insulin with Lantus, whereas other vets prescribe bad insulins like Vetsulin. Prozinc is a good one and I believe cats can achieve remission on it as well. Just don't ever let a vet switch you to Vetsulin. Remission is unlikely on Vetsulin, and it can have negative effects.

For treats I like Whole Life and Pure Bites salmon or tuna. I have been using tuna for years and have no problems, but I prefer salmon because it has less mercury. Snickers has an allergy to poultry so her treats are limited to fish, though I mix up her food with rabbit, pork, and fish.

She has very few teeth so I take the freeze dried treats and grind them up in a coffee grinder, then mix the powder with water to make it more soupy. She likes it that way.

Hope some of this helps!

Everything helps, thank you! Frankie doesn't like the freeze dried so, so far, we're only giving him the ones I found at Target.

 

[tobyo]

Just wanted to add that as others have said, 300s is definitely diabetic. Not borderline. I don't know why your vet would say otherwise. Weird!

not sure but that's what I heard her say. and the "300s" number came from hubby, meaning I wasn't there when the vet gave the numbers. He could have gotten that wrong? I'm going with on the next vet visit and plan to get more information.

 

[tobyo]

If your vet has not started insulin and your kitty has blood glucose in the 300s, I would highly recommend you get a bottle of Ketostix to test the urine for ketones. Diabetic cats that are not receiving insulin can form ketones in the urine/blood which can quickly get worse if insulin is not commenced. And this can be very serious.
It is not hard to do the test. Just make sure you read the result at exactly 15 seconds after dipping the strip into the urine against the colours on the side of the bottle. You can buy a bottle of the Ketostix at Walmarts or any pharmacy.

Hmmm.....it doesn't seem like you read my post? my first paragraph states that we're giving him insulin.

 

[tobyo]

I thought I'd post an update for anyone out there who might be interested.

I'm not sure if we just got lucky or if we caught this early enough but Frankie is now back to normal! We followed our vet's instructions giving him one unit of insulin every 12 hours. To check him the first time after two weeks of insulin, we gave him the insulin shot at 8 p.m. so that the vet could see what his insulin measured 12 hours later for an 8 a.m. appointment the next morning. She was ELATED that his glucose measured 288 whereas prior to giving him insulin it was in the high 300s. She instructed us to decrease the dose to half a unit every 12 hours and then recheck in two more weeks. Two days prior to his next check-up he began to act oddly, not eating and sleeping a lot. When hubby brought Frankie in for that check his glucose was 70!! So we were instructed to put karo syrup on his gums. We didn't have karo syrup so used honey instead and the vet said that was okay. Amazing the change in his behavior! He was perky and act a bunch!! So the vet instructed us to stop giving shots of insulin and he was rechecked this morning(one week later) and his glucose was in the 90s!! Normal!! So, no more checks and we're to bring him for his annual check-up in July. Of course barring anything odd happening in the mean time. And we're to keep him on the same food (Purina DM) and she gave us a prescription for the dry food version of this food. She said it was okay to give him dry food occasionally but to keep him on the wet food for the majority of his diet.

We never got a glucose monitor as was suggested by some here. I can understand why you'd want to monitor the glucose but, well, we never got around to that.

Thank you to everyone that replied here, I really appreciate it.