Need help with Lantus

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sammy34

Member Since 2012
hi my name is crystal i am from canada and my cats name is sammy, she is 8 years old and became diabetic oct 21.
She started out on caninsulin 2 u twice a day morning and night 12 hours apart. her numbers always started out high in morning from 24.4 mmol/L to 20 mmol/L. and always dropped quickly to anywhere around 8 to 4 mmol/L. she did not feel good on this insulin so i switched to lantus on nov 10 2012. sammy is on a raw diet she was eating evo dry but i am taking that away from her. as of nov 12 no more dry food. she also eats evo cat and kitten canned food. cannot figure out this insulin am i giving her to much or not enough? her bg numbers are below. please help...........

started lantus at 1 u twice a day 12 hours apart. 9:30 am an 9:30 pm shots
nov10
9 am bg 25.8
11:30 am 15.8
3:30pm 17.2
6 pm 17.2
9 pm 16.4

nov 11
9 am 15.3
12 pm 16.5
9 pm 16.5

nov 12
9 am 23
2 pm 12.6
9 pm 19.6

nov 13
9 am 15.4
12:30 pm17
9 pm 18.3

nov 14
9 am 18
2:30 20
8:30 pm15

nov 15
9 am 15.2
12 pm 15.7
2:30 pm 16
9 pm 19
12 am 18.3

increased dose to 1.5 u 9:30 am and 9:30 pm
nov 16
8:30 am 22.5
1:30 pm 13.9
9 pm 18.4
12 am 16.4

nov 17
8:45 am 17.3
2 pm 11.4
5 pm 14.7
9 pm 18

nov 18
9 am 22
4:30 pm 16.7
9 pm 19.7

nov 19
8 am 17
12 pm 14.4
7 pm 19
9 pm 16.9

Nov 20 increase dose to 2u twice a day 9:30am and 9:30 pm
stayed high all day lowest number 15.6 highest 18.3

nov 21
stayed high all day lowest number 15.8 highest 19

nov 22
9 am 21.1
2 pm 12.8
9 pm 20.1

nov 23
9 am 20.5
12:30 pm 15.5
9 pm 20.7

nov 24
9 am 19.4
12 pm 13
9 pm 17.3
12 am 16.2

nov 25
9 am 22.4
11 pm 17
9 pm 19

nov 26
9 am 20.1
12 pm 14.3
9 pm 20

nov 27 increase dose 2.5 twice daily
9 am 20
12 pm 12.2
3 pm 15.6
9 pm 18.4
12 am 16.2

nov 28
9 am 21.1
12 pm 15.1
2 pm 15.1
9 pm 17.5
11:30 16.6

nov 29
9 am 18.8
12 pm 11.7
1 pm 10.6
4 pm 18.4
9 pm 18.3
12 pm 18.3

nov 30
9 am 17
2 pm 15.3
9 pm 17.4
1 am 17.2

dec 1 increase dose to 2.75u twice daily
9 am 19
1 pm 16
9 pm 18.6

dec 2 sammy does not feel good today still eating alot but not active might be uti
9 am 20.7
1 pm 14.6
5:30 pm 14.8
9 pm 14.7
12 pm 17.6

dec 3 still not feeling good still eating
9 am 22.7
2 pm 13.6
9 pm 22
11:30 pm 18

dec 4 still not feeling good taking urine to vet tomorrow to check it for uti
9 17.3
12 pm 12.5
9 pm 17


nov 15
9 am 15.3
12 pm 15.7
2:20 pm 16
9pm 19
11:30 pm 18.3

how much should i be feeding sammy? as i am just letting her eat when ever she wants as she is always hungry.
 
Hi Crystal,

First off, you've been doing a great job getting tests. I've got to try to do the math in my head so it'll take a while. We're used to "US" blood glucose readings, which are your numbers times 18...

So today would be
9am 311
12 pm 225
9 pm 306

I am assuming the 9ma and 9pm were the shot times, right? Actually, those numbers are not really that bad.
Yes, a little higher than you want, but you mentioned a possible UTI? That could be elevating the numbers some.
Her current dose is 2.75u? And she is eating raw or canned, and no more dry food, which is great.

I would keep the dose the same for now. If you can get a test closer to half way between the shots, that will help to figure things out. The "nadir" number is the primary number that dosing is based upon with Lantus.

If it does turn out that she has a UTI or some other type of infection, and you get some antibiotics for that, it should help her numbers come down. If she doesn't show any infection, then we can help you figure out where to go from here. But the UTI question is pretty important to get an answer on.

As far as food goes. A diabetic cat usually acts very hungry, and that's because they can't process food "normally" so it usually takes more to get the same nutrition. How much would you say she eats per day, and how much does she weigh? Has she lost weight, and do you know what the vet thinks might be an ideal weight for her?

Carl
 
Hi from a fellow Canadian. As Carl said you are doing great keep up the good work with the testing. You have came to the right spot you will get lots of helpful advice and it helps to have someone that knows what you are going through. This board helped me alot when my first Diabetic was diagnosed.
 
hi sammy was 14.5 pounds in august but she lost weight she is now 12.5 and she eats about half of a 5.5 oz can of wet evo a day and she gets usually 1 half cup a day of raw which is tc feline premix but she is now eating about a cup of raw sometimes a little more. the vet said she should be about 10 pounds. her peak times are always from 4 to 6 hours is that the same as nadir? her shot times are 9:30 am and pm. i just take her blood at 9 before she eats. my vet has no idea how to go about this with lantus as it is her first on lantus. she is caninsulin all the way. and i live in new brunswick and where i live there is only two vets and they all use caninsulin.
 
A fellow Maritimer at that I'm in Nova Scotia and was lucky enough that my vet used Lantus but some of the things I learned from this board were new to her so she asked where I heard about it and she came on the board and researched for herself the different theories and she was very supportive of our journey.
 
sammy34 said:
hi sammy was 14.5 pounds in august but she lost weight she is now 12.5 and she eats about half of a 5.5 oz can of wet evo a day and she gets usually 1 half cup a day of raw which is tc feline premix but she is now eating about a cup of raw sometimes a little more. the vet said she should be about 10 pounds. her peak times are always from 4 to 6 hours is that the same as nadir? her shot times are 9:30 am and pm. i just take her blood at 9 before she eats. my vet has no idea how to go about this with lantus as it is her first on lantus. she is caninsulin all the way. and i live in new brunswick and where i live there is only two vets and they all use caninsulin.
Click to expand...

It's simple enough to help your vet learn about Lantus; you can send her info from this site, and if you get her email address for the vet office, you could email her links for reading.

Tight Regulation Protocol

http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_index.htm
 
Well, it's more about calories than ounces of food, and I'm not sure how many calories are in a cup of raw food. I know the Evo is listed as 200 calories a can, so 100 if she's eating half a can.

A non-diabetic cat is supposed to need 15-20 calories per pound per day to maintain weight, roughly. A diabetic can require more than that. So she would probably need 200 a day? The easiest way to tell if it's enough currently is to weigh her every week or two. My vet lets people bring their pets in and weigh them for free without an appointment. Maybe your's will do that? It also helps if you spread the food out over the course of a day/night. It helps by distributing the effect that eating will have on raising her numbers more evenly, and it might make her feel less hungry less often too.

her peak times are always from 4 to 6 hours is that the same as nadir?
Click to expand...

Yes, nadir would be the time when her BG is at the low point in the cycle. It can happen between 4-8 hours, so typically we say 6 hours. But every cat is different, and one cat's nadir can change around from time to time.

One thing that will help us to help you is if you put all that data into a google docs spreadsheet. If you look at most people's signatures, there's a link there that takes you to their spreadsheet. Here are instructions to make one, and if you have any difficulty, someone can help you out. You'd want to use the "world" template, and that will automatically convert your data into "US" numbers I think.
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Carl
 
ok thanks i will do that tomorrow. getting late. thanks to everyone.........do i post here again tomorrow or start a new one?
 
You can do either. If a thread gets really long, like 30-50 replies, it gets kind of hard to keep up with, especially when it spans several days. It does help to start a new one each day. You can also copy and paste the URL from this one into tomorrow's so that if people need to look back, then they can just click on it.

Carl
 
Hi, don't get me wrong all vets here aren't great I just lucked out. One of the other vets in the same practice told me not to hometest ever and to feed only the presciption food luckly I found this site through a friend and she recommended the vet we now use. Plus the vet poor Oscar was seeing had him being shot with 3Units of insulin without being tested. But maybe like Blue said you can help your vet learn too.
 
Hi Crystal, I am from Toronto. My cat Dongdong dx this Sept. She start with 1 unit Caninsulin for 6 weeks before I brought her to the vet for frutosamine test($200). My vet told me that her BG didn't go down. Advice me to increase to 1.5 Unit and go back after 4 weeks. I got a BG meter and start home testing. After 1.5 units for 1 week. Dongdong numbers was still very high(24amps). Finally I cut the prescription dry md. Dongdong blood glucose went down after 3 days. Since she have dry food all her life and won't even try wet food. It happened that shes tart to eat my home made food, chicken breast, salmon, capelin fish and smelt fish. These are all 0 carbo. Her numbers went down but stay around 19-15. I slowly increase the dose to 2units. She was in 2 units for a month and a few days in 2.25. Just happen yesterday her blood glucose numbers went down to 10 amps and 9 pmps. I decrease to 1.5 units now and hope her numbers could falls a bit. I was thinking switch to Lantus but seems that she's ok now. I just wait and see.

I think you need to be patient for a while and keep home testing. Some cats might need longer time before the numbers come down. :roll:
 
Udong said:
Hi Crystal, I am from Toronto. My cat Dongdong dx this Sept. She start with 1 unit Caninsulin for 6 weeks before I brought her to the vet for frutosamine test($200). My vet told me that her BG didn't go down. Advice me to increase to 1.5 Unit and go back after 4 weeks. I got a BG meter and start home testing. After 1.5 units for 1 week. Dongdong numbers was still very high(24amps). Finally I cut the prescription dry md. Dongdong blood glucose went down after 3 days. Since she have dry food all her life and won't even try wet food. It happened that shes tart to eat my home made food, chicken breast, salmon, capelin fish and smelt fish. These are all 0 carbo. Her numbers went down but stay around 19-15. I slowly increase the dose to 2units. She was in 2 units for a month and a few days in 2.25. Just happen yesterday her blood glucose numbers went down to 10 amps and 9 pmps. I decrease to 1.5 units now and hope her numbers could falls a bit. I was thinking switch to Lantus but seems that she's ok now. I just wait and see.

I think you need to be patient for a while and keep home testing. Some cats might need longer time before the numbers come down. :roll:
Click to expand...
The food you are feeding Dongdong.... are you using a recipe and adding the supplements that a cat needs? Feeding people food may not be a good idea for an entire diet. Look at Dr. Lisa's site .... catinfo.org and you can see the recipe for making cat's raw diet.

For insulin, you may be OK with the 9 and 10 BG numbers but if you were to switch from Caninsulin to Lantus, you may have a chance to get Dongdong completely off insulin. Caninsulin is not a very long lasting insulin, and if you were to test her numbers every 2 or 3 hours for a cycle, you will know better what numbers she is getting.

Being in Canada, we are fortunate that we don't need prescriptions from a vet to get a different insulin.
 
Thank you Blue, When Dongdong BG falls a bit. I will go and see what I could give her a better diet. Now I just steam chicken breast with no salt and sauce. bake some small smelt fish that are 3-4inch big. She can eat the entire fish as the bones are very soft and there are some calcium. I think my diet still need some more fiber. Dongdong is very picky, once I put a little cat omega oil in her food. She refuse to eat. I have to try very little by little to change.
Her BG this morning amps is 10(182) and last night is 8(144). Her +6 hrs around 4(72). I decrease from 2u to 1.5u. I hope this dose is not too high. I notice that when her BG was high like 18-20 before insulin for some weeks and suddenly drop to 10 yesterday morning. :roll:
 
Udong said:
Thank you Blue, When Dongdong BG falls a bit. I will go and see what I could give her a better diet. Now I just steam chicken breast with no salt and sauce. bake some small smelt fish that are 3-4inch big. She can eat the entire fish as the bones are very soft and there are some calcium. I think my diet still need some more fiber. Dongdong is very picky, once I put a little cat omega oil in her food. She refuse to eat. I have to try very little by little to change.
Her BG this morning amps is 10(182) and last night is 8(144). Her +6 hrs around 4(72). I decrease from 2u to 1.5u. I hope this dose is not too high. I notice that when her BG was high like 18-20 before insulin for some weeks and suddenly drop to 10 yesterday morning. :roll:
Click to expand...
Are you adding taurine to the foods you are cooking for your cat?

If you are feeding the food raw, be sure you are giving foods which are a good source of taurine... cooking cuts down on the taurine, and you may end up with a taurine deficiency.

http://allnaturalpetcare.com/blog/2011/ ... emade-foo/
 
Thank you Blue for the info. The only raw fish that Dongdong eats is salmon. So I will give her raw salmon and switch her chicken breast to cooked dark poultry meat. I can also mix a little egg yolk to her food.

This is the site that I use go to calculate the calories, fats,protein and carbs but they didn't show the Taurine.
http://fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition ... or-broiled
 
Udong said:
Thank you Blue for the info. The only raw fish that Dongdong eats is salmon. So I will give her raw salmon and switch her chicken breast to cooked dark poultry meat. I can also mix a little egg yolk to her food.

This is the site that I use go to calculate the calories, fats,protein and carbs but they didn't show the Taurine.
http://fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition ... or-broiled
Click to expand...
Look into adding supplements to the food, especially get some Taurine so that she does not get sick and develop a taurine deficiency.
 
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