monday with elvis

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carose

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well...at 4:45 he tried ti eat my hair again...but it's ok i have to get up for work...but he did vomit a little it was likr foam and the amout was about a teaspoon. when i cam down stairs, yelling at me i know heis very hungary...we used to let food out all the time for all the animals..now only 2x a day..we even pick up the dog foos because we caught him eating it...anyway taking is bg this am was a little tough..but
at 5 am it 460...at 6 i iwll give him 3 units...i will work on the spreadsheet again ..thanks guys
 
Our posts to you from yesterday are concerned that although Elvis is starting out high in the am, the N takes him low (in the 50's when you test - could be lower before or after that test) I don't know if you have read about hypo, but you need to: http://www.indulgedfurries.com/petdiabe ... ycemia.htm It is great you are seeing lower numbers, but if you see any of the signs for hypo, please be ready.

Is there any chance you can get a different insulin? Going from 400s to 50s within 6 -8 hours is most likely very tiring for Elvis and probably doesn't feel real good. (That roller coaster thing) The N seems to bring his numbers down but they shoot up again. That is generally the way N works. If you could get a longer lasting insulin (Lantus, Levemir or PZI) he would feel better during the cycle and shouldn't go drastically down into those scary numbers. The good news is that he is definitely reacting to the insulin, but it would be much better for him to be on a kinder, gentler insulin.
 
I am not sure how many post you have started with Elvis, but I am curious if you've switched to lc food? I know you had mentioned that you gave him Special kitty, but do you understand the importance with switching to a low card food and testing? That drop to 50 from 400's is bothering me. Please get a speadsheet up... so we can chime in and help you.
 
ok....i hope i got the spreadsheet up ok.....friday nite is the first time i posted on here...we have been tesing elvis for a week and never had a bg lower than 300...we were feeding him hills prescription w/d wet and dry since he was dx....seceral people posted not to feed just dry food and to check the carbs on the food i was giving to him (which i got from the vet) i saw that the food was very high in carbs 27 and 28...
on another board someone posted since we could not get his bg down give him another unit of insulin...which i was doing for about a week...after readin about the high carbs in the food, i decided to change his food to one on the chart. i was also told do not chnage food and amount of insul at the same time...so saturday am he ate tuna at 5 am and 4 units of insulin at 6 am at this time we did not check his bg before eating here are the numbers for all day saturday: 7:30 am 309 10:30 am 94 1:30 pm 292 he ate special kitty at 5 and 4 units of insulin at 6 pm 7:30 346 10:30 136...sunday was the "seconday" day on the new food his bg at 5 am before eating was 464 he ate special kitty again and at 6 am gave him 4 units..here is what i got 7:30 am 226 10:30 am 53 3 pm 315..this is when i decided to cut back to 3 untis again,,at 5 pm his bg was 416 ate special kitty and 3 units ...we only took hig bg last nite AT 8:30 it was 96....monday am at 5 am his bg was 46o he ate special kitty and 3 untis...i was workign so i didnt get to check his bg...at 5 pm tonite his bg were 460 fed him special kitty and gave him 3 units..
i am looking into a 12 hour insulin...i dont like the up and down and then nothing is there to help him...i double checked the charts and food elvis is eating is 162 cal and 4 carb...
elvis is still high numbers before he eats but from what i read about novloin this is what happens...
i am going to check him abput 8:30 he is getting a little mad every time i check him...
 
Great job on the spreadsheet. Sure makes it easy to see what is happening, doesn't it? So the N is at its lowest point at +4 and he starts to climb. One of the difficulties here is that there is such a variation between the am/pm shot number and that low point. The theory is that you should give insulin based on that low point, not the other number. The higher number can be a rebound from the low point.

Please consider posting again (or changing your subject line) to include Need help with N. You really need someone who has used this insulin and can give you advice on dosage. One of the possibilities might be that you may have started with too much insulin and he is reacting to that. N is an unusual insulin and acts so much differently than the long lasting ones. It will require real finesse/knowledge to use it with Elvis.

You are doing great with the other stuff - lo carb wet food and hometesting. If he is getting grumpy, be sure to offer a treat either during the testing or right after so he associates the treat with the poke. A small piece of boiled chicken or one of the lo carb treats like Bonito flakes work well. Whatever he really likes that is low carb.
 
carose said:
seceral people posted not to feed just dry food and to check the carbs on the food i was giving to him (which i got from the vet) i saw that the food was very high in carbs 27 and 28...
on another board someone posted since we could not get his bg down give him another unit of insulin...which i was doing for about a week...after readin about the high carbs in the food, i decided to change his food to one on the chart. i was also told do not chnage food and amount of insul at the same time...
Click to expand...


However, you decreased the amount of carbs in his food and then increased the insulin. Decreased carbs can lead to lower insulin requirements--this is why you should only change one thing at a time.

If 3 units was your starting dose, you very well may have started too high. Considering the change in diet, I think an insulin decrease is in order. (along with daily testing for ketones!)
 
I can not offer any advice about Novolin, but I am worried about the switch to lc canned food. Please read these links before you give Elvis another shot.

If you change your diabetic cat's diet to one with lower carbohydrates, he will, in all probability, IMMEDIATELY (not days or weeks later) require a reduction in his insulin dosage.
Click to expand...
http://www.catinfo.org/felinediabetes.htm

http://felinediabetes.com/hypogly.htm

http://www.yourdiabeticcat.com/protocol.html

I will post more soon, but I wanted you to see these links first.
 
I'd try to get some numbers at +6 & +7 if you can. I wish I knew about the type of insulin you're using, but I don't. I know with ProZinc... they usually start out with 1.0U at first then go up or down from there. I am a little worried that Elvis may be getting too much. If that's the case, you will see some crazy numbers. I will check back in a few hours.
 
Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant to put N advice needed in your post on this page. You may get a reply on the Humulin N board, but it is not as busy as this page, and its forum is combined with the other insulins. This page gets the most traffic. I also sent a message to Cindy and Mousie as I know they have used N. Hopefully she will see it and reply to your posts.

What do you mean you have already tried it? Giving treats after testing or something else?

Do you have the things you need in case he goes too low at +4? Syrup, high carb food? Have you printed off the hypo link I gave you earlier? Not to scare you, but you do want to be prepared.
 
i found pee strips to test for keytones ...he will not let me near him and get mad when i tried to test his pee...and yes i have some high carb food and karo...
 
Some tips for the pee gathering.

You can put some saran wrap on the area where he usually goes. Be waiting around the corner when you hear him in the box and run in fast, stick the strip in. Others use a ladle and stick it under his stream after he gets started. With Oliver, he would refuse to go if we were watching. We ended up getting some aquarium gravel from PetSmart and using it in his box when we wanted to get a sample. He wasn't crazy about it but he would use the box. Once we got it, we put out the regular box again.
 
i only used N for a very short while but i'd be willing to bet that he's getting harder to test because he's tying getting that done to not feeling well. going from 400's to double digit numbers and then back up as high again would be like riding a really big rollercoaster. in other words it makes cats feel like crud. and having a cat become uncooperative at shot time is not uncommon when we see numbers like this.

to be honest, i think now that you are hometesting that you should probably consider either going back down to 1 unit twice a day and starting over (while testing for ketones) or changing to a more stable insulin if you can.
 
Spot was on Humulin N for seven months before I switched to Lev. In my opinion and with my experience with Spot, N is not a very good insulin. It works fast then looses it momentum. It does not last long. If you can, please see it you can switch Elvis to a longer lasting insulin, you won't be disappointed. Believe me, there are times when I could just kick myself in the butt because I didn't switch earlier.
Now, with that being said, I have to echo some things already said:
1) Since you have already made a food change I suggest that you drop your insulin down to 1u and go from there. 2) Test for ketones regularly. I found it much easier to use a soup ladle to catch Spot's urine and then dipping the test strip in the ladle. Much much easier than trying to pick up his tail so that I could see the urine stream :lol:
3) keep your ss up to date so that we can look at it and give you the help that you need.

Again, it may be wise to look into getting another insulin!
 
almost 4 hpurs after shot bg is 74 .....i am thinking of giving 2 1/2 tom am not sure but i am tslking ith the vet about other insulins....
 
There are two possibilities here. One is that this is just the way his body reacts to Humulin N. There have been many cats who experience sharps drops with this insulin.

The other possibility is that he is currently being overdosed. Three units is too high of a starting does and there's been a diet change since then.

Since you don't have any other insulin on hand at the moment, the only other thing you can do right at this moment is to lower the dose dramatically for his next shot. If you do that, you have to find a way to test for ketones as well. Don't tell yourself it's impossible or it truly will be.
 
Depending on his numbers. If he gets to 50ish again... I'd check every 30 mins to make sure he's not dropping more. Just make sure you take his AMPS b4 you shoot in the morning. He could very well be at a no shoot level or may be not? Log as much info as you can on your SS too. This will really help everyone... and you as well. You will find yourself wanting to look back and remember what you did in certain situations etc. You're doing great and we're here checking in on you.
 
I used N with GArth and several others until I found the right insulin. I have to agree with Deanie and Deb. you already did the best things changed the diet and you hometest. I too had Garth on a 3 unit dose to start, but when I found the board these guys taught me what I needed to know. first thing I di was started low and went slow on the increases. the drops you are seeing are to fast and he is feeling it. it will take his body time to adjust to a new dose so checking for ketones is a must. a laddle worked for me, I found once Garth started to pee he couldn't shut it off, so when he atrted I slipped the laddle under. take your time and don't forget to breath.
 
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