Manon&Joy We're new and in need of assistance

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I just improvised with a ketone strip...
I use woodchip catlitter and I found 2 big piles of pee, quite wet, I've put the stick in it for a minute or so and made sure it pressed the wet woodchips (put my fingers in it...)
it gives a Neg: 0 reading. But is it the right way to test??
 
Manon&Joy said:
I use woodchip catlitter and I found 2 big piles of pee, quite wet, I've put the stick in it for a minute or so and made sure it pressed the wet woodchips (put my fingers in it...)
it gives a Neg: 0 reading. But is it the right way to test??
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I have never been able to ketone-test Bat (thankfully, haven't needed to, because she's pretty difficult), but I think you're supposed to try to get it from fresh urine alone (like maybe waiting until they pee, and get that stick under the urine stream). But I could be wrong about this; someone else will be along to advise you on it. @Bobbie And Bubba , @Sue and Oliver (GA)
 
He's not been acting like himself for the past 2 weeks, its so hard to tell. He is walking about same amounts as usual and sleeping as much...
I did do a test at the minute I saw him acting like this it's the +5 reading, my sheet doesnt show it but you can see it (ill ask marje about it)
 
before he got like this (its been 3,5 hours ago now) he was very alert, eyes wide open and walking about, but more like he was on speed, then the drunk thing started.
I just checked on him and he's sleeping calmly and his eyes look good (no large pupils)
 
Hi Manon, with the ketone strips, you just want to dip the end of the test strip into the urine just until it's wet. Then you time 15 seconds and then hold the strip up to the container where the guide is and compare the color you are seeing on the strip against the colors on the container and it will tell you where you are as far as ketones go.

It would be advisable for you to try and get another one in today to see if there are ketones. Did the vet start Joy on any new medicine that he could be reacting to? Is your vet opened today? It would be worth a call to tell them what is going on with Joy.
 
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About the unsteady walking: You may be seeing some diabetic neuropathy from Joy.

Uncontrolled diabetes can cause the signals from brain to nerves in the legs to falter now and then, which can result in periods of walking around almost as though he's drunk. This can come and go, and if the diabetes is not treated, it can become progressive. So it's good that you're treating Joy because we've had kitties here who had some pretty severe neuropathy at the beginning. Over time with effective treatment for diabetes - the neuropathy problem improves, and often it even goes away completely.
 
He just walked around and on the terras/balkony his eyes look very good and he's talking a bit, seems he's feeling oke, follows me around, his walk is better.
He's been through a lot the past few days and had some crazy drops, he's only 3kg and 18 years... Im thinking more in the line of heartproblems, high glucose can give heartproblems, right?
So he was put on heart medicin on monday, but his glucose is fluctuating like crazy, he might not need heart medicin if his glucose levels are stable and reasonable, is what im thinking (out loud)
 
I do think it may be hard to separate his diabetic issues from his heart and kidney ones. The diabetes may be the easiest part to manage - though I am sure it doesn't seem like that right now. :bighug: As far as the diabetes, we'll just urge you to keep collecting numbers and we'll do our best to help you interpret them. It may be that our first goal is just to get him stabilized on a dose that doesn't take him terribly low or high. Our general range for regulation is in the mid 200s at preshot and double digits or low one hundreds at nadir, but not below 50 on a human meter. Once they are in those ranges, then we try to fine tune the dose and get them lower overall, safely.

In general, we think it safer always to be a little high for a while than low for a minute. While fine tuning the dose, it is always wise to get a ketone test a couple times a week (@Ruby&Baco , do you have a place to buy ketone strips in the Netherlands?)

It looks like you got some great diet ideas on the health forum. I hope some are available in Europe.
 
That sounds like what he's experiencing Robin, oh im so glad you posted this! I remember he had this slightly before his diagnose, his back wobbled a bit ....... I'm going to read up on diabetic neuropathy

I just talked to a weekend vet (so not my own) he doesnt think it has to de with the diabetes treatment (he didnt even know Prozinc...)and he said his heart medicin is at an oke level and he didnt think it had to do with that.
I was free to come (at sky high weekend rates...) to examin him further........

btw.
The dutch forum was put up because dutch vets are not diabetic specialist, there are only a few in the country. If I could tell/show you the stories shared in the dutch forum that talk about how poorly diabetic cat are treaded you would be in shock, hardly any vet gives good advise, owners turn to the web for treatment questions....
My vet send me off on thursday with a quick showing on how to get blood from Joy's ear and how to do a shot, he told me to give a 1u shot at 9.00 and 21.00 on friday,saturday and sunday, TAKE HIS FIRST READING ON MONDAY AMPS and call him with the results and he would advice on doses use.....
The dutch forum saved Joy, he would not be alive if it wasnt for them!
 
Ill try to test his ketones every other day. Ill keep his litter clean so when he pees, I can take a sample.
The wood doesnt absorb quickly so there's usually a little puttle...
Ill measure PMPS and +2 and +4 and +6 and see what they say, (thats at 23.00 and 1.00 and 3.00 at night/morning) but I don't think I can keep up testing round the clock.
What would be a good schedule to follow?
 
@Carol & Murphy I know the storries, horrible. My vet didn't want me to test at first either, but I had already spent 5 hours on internet searching for info on cat diabetics, so I was prepared.
Now I have the feeling he is letting me do my thing and doesn't show or gives me any support, he just gets very defensive. I did find a new vet, she's also a specialized internist and I talked to her twice for over half an hour, and I'm not even a patient with her. But she insists on seeing Joy first before I can become a patient with her, she's right on insisting ofcourse and I completely understand. But Joy gets soooo stressed if I would take him, from the moment i put him in his travel basket, he looses hair, he poops he pees and is a nervous wreck at the vets and it takes him a day to get over the experiance, and that was before he got diabetic
I'm not sure on how and when to make the switch and if I can put Joy through another vet visit right now, I just don't know....
 
Manon&Joy said:
I'm not sure on how and when to make the switch and if I can put Joy through another vet visit right now, I just don't know....
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Totally understand how you're feeling, Manon. But we're all here for you, and there are lots of experienced ProZinc eyes here to help you through this rough patch. Let's see how the rest of his cycle rolls out. You're handling all this very well, btw, considering everything that's going on.:bighug:
 
My vet has started prescribing gabepentin (a painkiller of sorts - mostly for nerve pain) for pre vet visit anxiety - its a human medicine and comes in 100 mgm capsules - give 1/2 to 3/4 of the capsule 2-3 hours before the vet visit or riding in a car. I can't really tell if it works - Murphy has been laid back when I give it to him - apparently the medicine is very safe, and the practice is becoming more common - something to consider. I don't think you should hold it against the vet to need to see Joy before she can become a patient - it's almost malpractice not to do that - ask about gabepentin or what about the pheromone sprayers - do you have those in the Netherlands?
regarding your proposed schedule tonight - I suppose it depends on the pmps - the recommendation may be to test a +2 and develop a schedule based on that (be it +4- hopefully not past that) No one would expect you to be up all night - lets's get a good pmps and a nice safe dose tonight so you don't have to worry I know how stressful this is - I lost 6 lbs in the first 6 weeks (I think that is 3 kg) - unfortunately, after I got the hang of this I gained it back :eek:
 
I'm so glad I found you all in here, together with the dutch form Joy has an almost round the clock care :D
I did resarch tranqualizers or equivalants, I use Bach Resque drops, its homeopathic but doesnt work well enough. The effect of tranqualizers seems to do the job, but in dutch resarch it showed that the animal is very stressed but can't respond due to the tranqualisers, they are considered cruel now....

And I haven't told you guys I have health issues myself, I have mild addison/cushing combination, it's a little simular to diabetics, only it's my cortisol level that fluctuate, I'm still in the diagnostic fase and it's very rare, especially the comination, usually it's on or the other. The low (addisoncrisses) is the scariest and there is now way to home test cortisol or even in a hospital, it has a curve aswell and everyone has a different curve. I've tried to take care of myself the past few days, I watched my food and fluid intake, i need enough fluids and salts, so it's not only Joy I'm monitoring. Only sleep ia a problem, my body doesnt release stress very well so when I do get some time to sleep, my body thinks otherwise.... So I need to balance a good schedule between joy and me :)
 
Dear Manon - you certainly have a lot going on right now - between your health and Joy's - I'm stressed just thinking about it - can you monitor your Addison's at home by blood pressure monitoring? just curious
The gabapentin is not a tranqulizer - it is actually a neuropathic pain medication used to treat diabetic neuropathy, back pain and other pain caused by inflammed nerves it's not a regular pain med like an opioid either. It's worth researching
We will do our best to help ease your stress with Joy's diabetes, and hopefully help you get your much needed sleep
I have a soft spot for the Dutch because I am half Dutch - both of my mothers parents are Dutch (from Zeeland)
 
So sorry Manon! It's a holiday weekend for me....so naturally my stomach decided to mess up this morning.

Just remember to breathe! This does get much easier as you go along, I promise. We all felt panicked and confused at first, but we got to the point where it was second nature and you will too!
 
Yeaaa, an other dutchie :D

That's definately worth researching! Does it help with the funny walk too?

And no there is no way of tracking cortisol like that. I can do a 24 hour urine collection and bring it to the hospital, it gives a total number only. I need to be admitted in hospital for a couple of days for testing, but even them its difficult. Its a rare disease there's some treatment but diagnosing is very difficult in early stages, only when the readings in the tests are very clear, they can/will diagnose.
 
Manon&Joy said:
Only sleep ia a problem, my body doesnt release stress very well so when I do get some time to sleep, my body thinks otherwise....
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I have PTSD and it affects me similarly. I feel for you, Manon, for the sleep problems alone, but doubly so for the other complications related to monitoring and treatment of your condition. :bighug:


Mogs
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Manon&Joy said:
he was very alert, eyes wide open and walking about, but more like he was on speed, then the drunk thing started.
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What medications are you giving to Joy at the moment?

BTW re ketone testing, if you pop some cling film food wrap over the litter in the box in a spot where Joy regularly pees it may be easier to collect a little sample of urine for ketone testing.



Mogs
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Just now, he's feeling oke, I'm so proud of him....
 
I would go with the same dose as this AM (your sheet isn't calculating the MMOL amps to the mg/dl from this morning btw)
Sticking to the same dose is an advice i'll mostly get from the people here on this forum so kitties don't get the most change of bouncing. If you change a dose quickly every other day a cat can bounce a lot. So my advice (seeing Joy's PMPS) would be stick with the 0.45 (so the skinny 0.50 like you did this morning) But please wait for advice from others..
 
Can you monitor this cycle? As I might be inclined (if he were mine) to try Joy at 0.60; I don't know that 0.50 will make much more difference than the 0.45 ... let's see what @Sue and Oliver (GA) thinks ...
 
Ruby&Baco said:
If you change a dose quickly every other day a cat can bounce a lot.
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Yes, this is often true, Ruby. However, in Joy's case we're also dealing with both kidney disease and heart problems; the higher BG #s can be harder on already stressed kidneys & heart, so we probably would like to see Joy's BG #s come down a little more than if these other health problems were not happening.
 
awww he's getting scared of me now, he did the wobbling again 10 mins ago btw, if he doesnt feel well its hard to go through the mesuaring procedure with him.... poor guy I hope he'll feel a little better in an our or so.
I will try to keep this thread going and not start another thread when I have a PS, I just get a little hyper and impatient cuz I know I have little time...
 
Me too Robin! I think the tea and the kitty love I'm getting right now helped.

We've all been there Manon! We are glad to have the chance to pay it forward!
 
sleep well Robin, get that well deserved rest, Joy and me are in good hands the comming hours

(oke I had a little cry, but this time it wasnt from feeling stressed :D)
 
Rachel said:
We've all been there Manon! We are glad to have the chance to pay it forward!
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Totally can relate to how you're feeling, Manon. I am dealing with a chronic illness, too, so know well how difficult it can be to balance your own health needs with managing the needs of your diabetic kitty. You're doing a great job, but please make sure to take care of you, too. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

P.S. Sometimes a little cry is a very good thing.:) (I do it far more often that I'd admit to most people ...)
 
You are doing great with Joy !
I'm going to sleep in a couple off minutes, I'm off duty with Baco (she didn't need a shot tonight) so I can relax now after my shopping trip :)!
So we will talk tomorrow! Try to relax, you're in great hands this PM cycle!
:bighug:
 
I think Joy has lost some more weight, so he weighs less then 3kg , I'll weigh him when he feels a little better between +2 and +3 otherwise he'll jump off the scale
 
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