Manon&Joy We're new and in need of assistance

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Manon&Joy

Manon&Joy

Member Since 2016
Hi All,

I'm Manon and my cat is called Joy, he's a 18 year old with thyroid problems, kidney faillure (both mild) and since last monday irregular heartbeat and diabetes.
Ruby&Baco helped me find this forum.

Basic info
weight 3kg
thyroid meds 2 a day 5mg Felimazole
Kidney meds Fortekor 1 a day 2,5mg
heartmeds Atenolol Actavis 2 a day 1/4 of 25mg

Diagnosed last monday, started Prozinc wednesday , first full day yesterday.
I'm keeping a sheet on the Dutch forum, but I would like to start using Ruby's and Baco's sheet, that's what you all use, right?
Joy is responding to Prozinc somewhat too well, the numbers are dropping fast, so I'd like to get my US sheet up asap so everyone in here can advise me.

First burning question is about food, I'm using Royal Canin Renal (high carbs) what do I use to get his numbers up if he goes too low?

And can someone please give me directions to the sheet?

I'm still riding a rollarcoaster in a pressure cooker, so please forgive me if I don't respond quickly or if I misread or something, I've heardly slept since the diagnose, my house looks like a bomb went off, I loose things I just had in my hands, I don't have any food in the house, but cat food. I'm not really sure what day it is.but the main thing is; Joy is feeling a little better...!!!
 
Hi Manon and Joy,

Welcome to the forum. We are a small but friendly group. As with Ruby, we will try to have someone around to help when you need it, but, of course, even with people in the East and Mountain time zones, our day is your evening.

Here are the directions for the spreadsheet:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

You want the World version which will convert from from European to US numbers.

We can all identify with your roller coaster. If it helps, I can guarantee it gets better. As Ruby will tell you, the whole process seems so complicated at first, but after a while, you begin to gain in confidence and start interpreting the data and, as Ruby is now doing, making good choices about doses on your own.

I'll watch for your spreadsheet and see what ideas I might have on her numbers. Others will be along to greet you also.
 
Manon is about to test Joy's PMPS (Manon, PMPS means PRE waarde) and she has to decide what to give Joy. Her vet told her 0.50 (instead of the 1U that she gave earlier, that's why Joy's numbers were low! (64 at +6, coming from wayyyy more than 450/500) So I told her on the dutch forum that maybe 0.50 is even to much, and instead go with 0.40.
I think we have to wait for PMPS but I'm curious to know what you would recommend Manon to give Joy.
 
here are Joy's numbers from today (since she doesn't have a sheet that converts just yet)

AMPS <450
+2 232
+4 120
+6 64
+8 120
+10 194

So we now are waiting for PMPS
 
So one unit took her from 450/500 to 64 at nadir? As you know, Ruby, it will partially depend on her ability to monitor. Manon, we generally suggest starting low, and after you see what a given dose does, if it is too little, then raise slowly. It is easy to increase a dose; it is impossible to get the insulin out once shot!
 
So I am thinking that one unit caused more than an 80% drop. While that doesn't always correspond to future dosing, it clearly says one unit was too much. 0.5 could be fine, but it is going into your night time and we have no history to tell us if she will continue to react to the insulin this strongly and drop even more. I think the cautious advice would be less than 0.5. What kind of needles do you have, Manon, and how little of a dose could you measure? O.25?

Regarding the food, I would suggest posting on the Health forum. Tell them you are in Europe and give Joy's medical issues and ask for food suggestions. I would be cautious lowering her carb count right away. That might be enough to lower the levels even further - and she doesn't have a lot of room to drop. @Elizabeth and Bertie - and diet suggestions?
 
Welcome Manon and Joy! I see Sue has already given you dose advice, and I agree with it. As you get more data on Joy, you'll be able to figure out a good dose more easily. The good news is that Joy has had some good drops. As Sue said, we'd prefer to give a small dose and increase later if needed to keep her safe.

We're glad you're here!
 
oke, I got it in the end ;) I did a skinny dose, I think is was about 0.40
Thank you so much for your input!
 
that's my bad I think Ruby, i filled in 25> it means "to high to measure" how do I fill that in properly?
 
Glad you got the SS going. The problem the the AMPS on the US SS is that it only converts numbers from the World SS. It won’t convert a symbol such as >.

You’ll need to go to the US SS and manually enter it. If the number was >25 on the mmol meter, than it would be >450 on the human meter (I’m surprised it didn’t just give you a number because most meters read up to at least 500). Just open the US SS and on those AMPS squares where it shows “error”, put the cursor in the square and type >450 and then manually color it in red by clicking on the pitcher in the toolbar and selecting the red color.

If you need any help, just send me a PM.
 
I am late to the party here, Manon ... but just wanted to say we're all glad you've joined us here in the "club" that none of us ever really wanted to join.:rolleyes:

Sue gave you excellent dosing advice already, and you're in good company! Our ProZinc forum is small, but is full of BIG, caring hearts (which is true throughout all of the FDMB membership); we have high hopes for healthier, well-regulated kitties for all (with fingers, toes & paws crossed for remission, too, of course)! So a very warm welcome to you ... and can hardly wait to see a photo of your Joy in your avatar!:)

P.S. Congratulations for getting your spreadsheet up so quickly.;)
 
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I might have messed up his second shot seeing the readings...or it might be he ate more than he did yesterday, I find it hard to understand how I can regulate him with his high carb Kidney food, can anyone advise on that please?

Sue and Oliver, where do I fill in Joy's medical issues and diet and what meter I use etc?

and how do i link people in a thread?

......If I got a dollar for every "how do I", "How does this work" question I asked the past 4 day, I'd be rich, not a millionair just yet, but rich!

Thank you all again for your help and advice, you guys are life savers! you truely are, and the dutch forum is great, if it wasn't for them, Joy wouldn't have been alive today!
The vet send me off thursday with the following advice; 2 shots a day 1u, measure AMPS on monday and call and I will advice on further doses(!) no further info whatsoever...
 
To add the info and spreadsheet URL to your signature, go up to your name on the right hand top of this page, edit signature. Add the info and then choose Submit

I don't think his numbers are very high. They really look pretty good

To tag someone, use the @ and then their name
 
The 450 readings are 450> , my meter doesnt go higher then 450, but all the 450 readings mean higher then 450...
and Joy doesnt feel well atm
But still leave his high carb kidney food?
 
Let's try to find another food. Here is a website for kidney kitties with food ideas. They are US brands, but maybe some are available there.

http://www.felinecrf.org/

Oops, I was looking at today's cycle. Yes, the 450 is high but it could be a bounce from the low numbers he saw today. A bounce is when their body perceives a lower than normal level and releases extra sugar. I'd give this dose a cycle and see what it looks like tomorrow.
 
Manon&Joy said:
The 450 readings are 450> , my meter doesnt go higher then 450, but all the 450 readings mean higher then 450...and Joy doesnt feel well atm
But still leave his high carb kidney food?
Click to expand...
Hi, Manon - I just looked over Joy's SS; I just wanted to say that Joy may not be feeling so well because he had such a very steep drop yesterday: from a blood glucose of 450+ at AMPS all the way down to 65 is a BIG change; so he may be bouncing a bit now. This may, indeed, be why you're seeing the high reading at +4 now; when blood glucose drops much lower than kitty's body is accustomed to, it can cause a bit of "glucose panic" and the body finds & releases even more glucose, causing a spike high in the number again.

Try not to worry too much, as this will pass. But that said, a kitty may bounce for awhile ... then will even out later.
 
Thank you, that helps, although I worry about his heart condition, he was just put on heart medicen, and I'm just not sure about it, after what my vet's advice on Prozinc, I question everything he does/says right now.
I'll be switching vet's soon, I found a Vet who's also a specialised internist, but has no experiance with ProZinc, but no vet over here has... But I can't take Joy in to see a vet right now, it stresses him out so so bad, only in emergancies. Thank you again, im going to try to get some sleep, I can't do anything for him now.
 
oh wait, I forgot to ask. If the AMPS is high (probs, right?) what would you suggest about his dose? I'm thinking 0,4 or 0,5 , what's best?
Or is there a chance it will be a measurable reading?
 
Remember that vets have to know so much about different animals and different diseases. It's tough for them since they usually don't specialize. So I know the feeling of frustration, but you are doing what needs to be done for Joy. You're doing awesome!

Please ask all the questions you can. We've ALL been there. Trust me, those of us who hang around to help do so because we want to pay it forward for the help we got when we arrived.

I forget, are you using the u100 or the u40 needles?
 
I think I would stick with the lower dose -0.5 if it is easier to measure. Unless he is in the 200s. Then I would go lower.

It is hard to guess what to do but not too many people are here for amps. My guess is that he may drop back down this cycle after the bounce and you might have a test in the 250-300 range. Will you be around tomorrow so you can get some tests in?
 
I'm now using the U40 ones, but I hope to get U100's tomorrow
I'll be checking in after I have the readings for AMPS, I want to check with you guys first, but to be honest...., I'll be bouncing to hear what to do cuz I'm trying to keep a strict schedule for Joy, he has too many variables already.
I'm reading the link you send about food, I believe she is suggesting not to give Kidney food, but Hill's m/d and watch the phospor intake..., what to do? Are there other forum mebers with CKD and Diabetes combination? What do they use?
 
Oh #$%^%$&&&%!!! meter(S) ran out of strips!!! now what??? I can't do AMPS

I have 2 meters 1 I recieved yesterday that works great with a small amount of blood but it came with just a few strips, I ordered the strips but they use a koerrier that doesnt work on weekends(!) and I have a meter from the vets, but it needs way too much blood and doesnt suck the blood up, I've used up all those strips to get a reading, but it just wont #$%^%$ work!!
 
Oke I got the reading and the dose in the end.

But now this happened, please advise @Sue and Oliver (GA) @Rachel @Robin&BB
Joys reading at +4 was 337, but 30 mins after I measured he started walking like a drunk and almost falling over, he lay down on his bed for a while and gagged but didn'y throw-up... are these bounging sympthoms?
A drop to to0 low levels is not possible, right?
 
No, that number is not too low. I am not sure what happened. How is he acting now? Did you get another test?

Do you have ketone strips? They are another tool for your toolbox. You use the same kind human diabetics use and stick them in his urine stream. We have ways to get it done if he won't cooperate.
 
He's calm and sleeping right now. After what happened this morning (I had to do 7 or 8 attempts to get a good test, and his ears are sore) I don't wanna test him that much today, he's been through some much the past few days, I don't wanna get him to the point that he's scared of me. But if i have to I will ofcourse.
I did buy Ketone strips, but the vet said not to use them for about 6 days (that was thursday afternoon) cuz he was atmitted to the vets from tuesday night to thursday afternoon and put on fluid IV, he said if I used the strips it would read ketone because of that.
Joy just walked in the get a cuddle, but im still not sure about his walk, he's still a little unstable...
How do I use the ketone sticks?
 
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