Man of the house is sick

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Brenda7b

Brenda7b

Member Since 2020
Hello,
Momo my big, strong, only male in the house kitty has been sick since April.
First symptom was loss of meow, throat irritation, thin hair patches and suspected increase urination.
-4/17/20 Weight 22lbs. Vet gave Depo Medrol injection and BG test. Neg results.
Noticeable increase in thirst & urination, frequent rest when walking, more hair loss, needs assistance to hop on sofa, bed, etc.
-5/5/20 Weight 21.6llbs. Vet did another BG test. Neg results. Vet suspects overgrooming. No treatment given.
Rear legs start to appear skinny and wobbly. Then saw some weight loss and more thinning hair.
-7/2/20 Weight 18.8lbs. Took Momo to sister clinic for Chem 27, CBC, T4, UA, Fecal An
-7/4/40 Vet diagnosed Momo with diabetes. Said his BG was over 300g/dl and a large amount of glucose in his urine. 10ml of Vetsulin 2X daily was prescribed along with a diet of Royal Canin Glycobalance dry food.
-7/17/20 BG Curve. Vet said flow of curve is good but values are too high. Vetsulin increased to 20ml 2X daily.
-7/30/20 Fructosamine Panel. Results: Poor 505. Vetsulin increased to 30ml 2X daily.

-8/5/20 I found this forum and read, read, read! I asked vet to advise/assist with changing food to a wet, affordable food and home monitoring BG. Although reluctant, vet offered to sell me a glucometer and home monitoring app that linked to their office. Change of food was not recommended but I did change the food to FF Pate and am seeking help to monitor BG at home. The challenge is I have very limited funds and have exhausted my Care Credit to get this far. Vetsulin doesn't seem to be working and bottle is less than half full. How/where will I get insulin if vet doesn't want to work with me? The recommended site gives a "no longer exists' message. Ideally, I'd like to not rely on insulin. Momo said "neither do I".

Thanks a bunch.
 
Hiya. Your Fructosamine 505 is of course high, but it is your baseline. Your aim is to come down with the high bg's to a Fructosamin under 300 and you do that with consistent right diabetic adapted food and insulin and home bg's tests.

First Food for instance to take away is the bg carb raising dry food. And no insulin. And for instance Choose the 5 % carb, 40 % fat, 50 % meat protein wet food Friskies, Fancy Feast on The Diabetic Medical Food Chart https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

You still need to measure the bg's until you can see if just diabetic wet food adapted regulation works.

If it works, right food regulation, you have to remember that kitty will always be a diabetic with no own pancrea insulin production.
 
Hello to you and Momo!

Insulin is measured in units, not ml, but even so -- up to 30 units in just a few months is insane! If you could please post a pic of your syringe drawn to where you're pulling insulin? So we can confirm it is 30 units you're giving? I'm also tagging some members with much more experience than me :)
@Panic
@Diane Tyler's Mom
@jt and trouble (GA)

If you would be so good to help? :bighug: The idea that Brenda has been giving 30 units twice a day is scaring me to death :nailbiting: Or if you know of someone else to tag for help?
 
Yes please, a picture of the syringe and where you are drawing to! 30U would be an extremely large dose for a cat.

We can definitely help with monitoring BG at home. Most of us use human meters, which have affordable strips compared to pet meters. If you give us an idea of where you live (US? Canada? etc) we can probably give you some specific suggestions and hopefully help you help Momo feel better soon!
 
Sam & Esse said:
Hello to you and Momo!

Insulin is measured in units, not ml, but even so -- up to 30 units in just a few months is insane! If you could please post a pic of your syringe drawn to where you're pulling insulin? So we can confirm it is 30 units you're giving? I'm also tagging some members with much more experience than me :)
@Panic
@Diane Tyler's Mom
@jt and trouble (GA)

If you would be so good to help? :bighug: The idea that Brenda has been giving 30 units twice a day is scaring me to death :nailbiting: Or if you know of someone else to tag for help?
Click to expand...


So sorry for the scare. I don’t know units of measurement for syringes. I saw reference of “10ml” and also “1unit” on my receipts/invoices from the vet and thought they were the same. I marked a red line on the syringe to where I draw the insulin to.
This should clear things up.
 

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Brenda7b said:
So sorry for the scare. I don’t know units of measurement for syringes. I saw reference of “10ml” and also “1unit” on my receipts/invoices from the vet and thought they were the same. I marked a red line on the syringe to where I draw the insulin to.
This should clear things up.
Click to expand...

I’ll change the dosage in my signature when I hear back from you.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Yes please, a picture of the syringe and where you are drawing to! 30U would be an extremely large dose for a cat.

We can definitely help with monitoring BG at home. Most of us use human meters, which have affordable strips compared to pet meters. If you give us an idea of where you live (US? Canada? etc) we can probably give you some specific suggestions and hopefully help you help Momo feel better soon!
Click to expand...
Thank you. We live in Florida, US.
 
If you're in the US, probably the most affordable option for testing is Walmart's Relion brand of meters for human BG testing. When shopping around and deciding on a meter, the two key features are: size of blood drop (smaller the better) and price of test strips (the main ongoing expense).

You'll also want to get some lancets for doing the poke and getting a drop of blood-- get the larger size lancets (26 or 28 gauge, smaller number = larger lancet) to start with, the bigger hole they make is easier to get blood from at first (later on, you can move to the smaller size).
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
If you're in the US, probably the most affordable option for testing is Walmart's Relion brand of meters for human BG testing. When shopping around and deciding on a meter, the two key features are: size of blood drop (smaller the better) and price of test strips (the main ongoing expense).

You'll also want to get some lancets for doing the poke and getting a drop of blood-- get the larger size lancets (26 or 28 gauge, smaller number = larger lancet) to start with, the bigger hole they make is easier to get blood from at first (later on, you can move to the smaller size).
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'll look for that one. I'm gonna solicit friends & family first then Walmart.
 
Brenda7b said:
I see how I messed up. When I saw 10ml Vetsulin on the receipt I thought it was for the injection he got during his visit but it was for the whole bottle.
Click to expand...

:bighug: I am so glad to see that Momo's dose is 3 units :D Well, compared to 30 ;) With the switch to FF pate, you'll definitely want to keep track of his BG at home. Going from the high carb dry to low carb wet can make a huge difference in blood sugar. In case you haven't had a chance to read about hypos, here's two links:
How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!
jojo and bunny's HYPO TOOL BOX
 
Sam & Esse said:
:bighug: I am so glad to see that Momo's dose is 3 units :D Well, compared to 30 ;) With the switch to FF pate, you'll definitely want to keep track of his BG at home. Going from the high carb dry to low carb wet can make a huge difference in blood sugar. In case you haven't had a chance to read about hypos, here's two links:
How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!
jojo and bunny's HYPO TOOL BOX
Click to expand...
Hi,
I read both. Haven’t seen any of those symptoms in Momo so that’s good. I just back from Walmart with a shiny new meter. If all goes well I’ll be posting his BG number. Thanks again.
 

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I'm late to this party! Hi! I just want to add...What a beautiful big boy you have there! Thats a LOTTA cat!
I hope we can help you navigate this disease to the standards of your Vet and YOU!
Diabetes is a marathon not a sprint and we will help Momo get to be the best Momo , Momo can be. :D

WELCOME to the best site on this planet to learn everything you need to know to help your kitty!
jeanne
 
Brenda7b said:
Hi,
I read both. Haven’t seen any of those symptoms in Momo so that’s good. I just back from Walmart with a shiny new meter. If all goes well I’ll be posting his BG number. Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Well done, one thing I see you bought the 30 gauge lancets, if you are trouble getting any blood ,
as Nan suggested above
get the larger size lancets (26 or 28 gauge, smaller number = larger lancet) to start with, the bigger hole they make is easier to get blood from at first (later on, you can move to the smaller size).
As you keep testing more capillaries will grow and it will become easier get blood
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
I'm late to this party! Hi! I just want to add...What a beautiful big boy you have there! Thats a LOTTA cat!
I hope we can help you navigate this disease to the standards of your Vet and YOU!
Diabetes is a marathon not a sprint and we will help Momo get to be the best Momo , Momo can be. :D

WELCOME to the best site on this planet to learn everything you need to know to help your kitty!
jeanne
Click to expand...
That is a lot of cat Jeanne, look at the size of those paws, more to cuddle with
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Well done, one thing I see you bought the 30 gauge lancets, if you are trouble getting any blood ,
as Nan suggested above
get the larger size lancets (26 or 28 gauge, smaller number = larger lancet) to start with, the bigger hole they make is easier to get blood from at first (later on, you can move to the smaller size).
As you keep testing more capillaries will grow and it will become easier get blood
Click to expand...
Yeah I totally forgot about looking for 26 gauge and specifically chose the tiniest one. Needless to say had a very hard time getting blood but we did. Here’s what we got 45 minutes after his Vetsulin dose of 3 units (1hr 15min post meal)
 
Brenda7b said:
So we got 2 BG readings so far. Don’t know what the numbers mean yet. If anyone could give guidance please. Thanks a bunch.
9:40pm. 452
10:25pm. 318
Click to expand...

Here is The Protocol for your Vetsulin insulin. Read through it in bits.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/

And concerning the good low and not good high bg levels
the aim is to get under or around 230 (13) the renal threshold
the bg ranges chart you find here
https://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-convert.htm
 
Congratulations on getting your first tests so soon! Welcome to the kitty vampire club!

Those numbers are high (not surprising for a diabetic cat). The "normal" range for cats using a human meter is about 50-120.

Vetsulin is an insulin that hits hard and fast, so as general guidelines, in the beginning you don't want to shoot any pre-shot number below 200, and you don't want him going lower than 100 at any time during the cycle.

We usually tell time relative to each shot (we're all in different time zones here!), so translating the numbers you got, you'd have:

+0.75: 452
+1.5: 318

Vetsulin usually hits max activity around +3 to +5. On the next shot, how about getting a pre-shot reading (to see if it's safe to shoot), and then a test around +2 to start?
 
Help needed!!! Momo went to stay with his non-custodial parent while l was out of town for a +week. Even with feeding and insulin dose instructions I'm not sure it was followed. Today was 1st day back at checking Momo's BG. His pre-shot BG is 75 on the human meter. Can that be right? He just finished eating so we are now at step 2. I won't give his shot (step 3) til I hear from someone. Should I test the meter on myself to make sure it's working correctly? Recheck Momo's BG?
 
The second reading will be food-influenced.

I can't help with the meter question, I have an Alphatrak.

Has Momo any history of testing positive for ketones or episodes of DKA?

.
 
PMPS 75
Fed.
+0.5??? 106 (food influenced)

I think you are going to have to skip the shot tonight. 106 is still below the "no shoot" line and is food influenced. Plus the last week has been a great unknown.

It would help us tremendously if you could set up a spreadsheet soon. We are data driven and that is the first place we look.
 
If you need help setting up your spread sheet just ask. There are a couple of people here that will help you. I would tag them for you but I want to make sure you are here when they answer the tag.

What do you think Mogs?
 
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