Man of the house is sick

Hello,
Momo my big, strong, only male in the house kitty has been sick since April.
First symptom was loss of meow, throat irritation, thin hair patches and suspected increase urination.
-4/17/20 Weight 22lbs. Vet gave Depo Medrol injection and BG test. Neg results.
Noticeable increase in thirst & urination, frequent rest when walking, more hair loss, needs assistance to hop on sofa, bed, etc.
-5/5/20 Weight 21.6llbs. Vet did another BG test. Neg results. Vet suspects overgrooming. No treatment given.
Rear legs start to appear skinny and wobbly. Then saw some weight loss and more thinning hair.
-7/2/20 Weight 18.8lbs. Took Momo to sister clinic for Chem 27, CBC, T4, UA, Fecal An
-7/4/40 Vet diagnosed Momo with diabetes. Said his BG was over 300g/dl and a large amount of glucose in his urine. 10ml of Vetsulin 2X daily was prescribed along with a diet of Royal Canin Glycobalance dry food.
-7/17/20 BG Curve. Vet said flow of curve is good but values are too high. Vetsulin increased to 20ml 2X daily.
-7/30/20 Fructosamine Panel. Results: Poor 505. Vetsulin increased to 30ml 2X daily.

-8/5/20 I found this forum and read, read, read! I asked vet to advise/assist with changing food to a wet, affordable food and home monitoring BG. Although reluctant, vet offered to sell me a glucometer and home monitoring app that linked to their office. Change of food was not recommended but I did change the food to FF Pate and am seeking help to monitor BG at home. The challenge is I have very limited funds and have exhausted my Care Credit to get this far. Vetsulin doesn't seem to be working and bottle is less than half full. How/where will I get insulin if vet doesn't want to work with me? The recommended site gives a "no longer exists' message. Ideally, I'd like to not rely on insulin. Momo said "neither do I".

Thanks a bunch.

 

Hiya. Your Fructosamine 505 is of course high, but it is your baseline. Your aim is to come down with the high bg's to a Fructosamin under 300 and you do that with consistent right diabetic adapted food and insulin and home bg's tests.

First Food for instance to take away is the bg carb raising dry food. And no insulin. And for instance Choose the 5 % carb, 40 % fat, 50 % meat protein wet food Friskies, Fancy Feast on The Diabetic Medical Food Chart https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

You still need to measure the bg's until you can see if just diabetic wet food adapted regulation works.

If it works, right food regulation, you have to remember that kitty will always be a diabetic with no own pancrea insulin production.

 

Hello to you and Momo!

Insulin is measured in units, not ml, but even so -- up to 30 units in just a few months is insane! If you could please post a pic of your syringe drawn to where you're pulling insulin? So we can confirm it is 30 units you're giving? I'm also tagging some members with much more experience than me
@Panic
@Diane Tyler's Mom
@jt and trouble (GA)

If you would be so good to help? The idea that Brenda has been giving 30 units twice a day is scaring me to death Or if you know of someone else to tag for help?

 

Yes please, a picture of the syringe and where you are drawing to! 30U would be an extremely large dose for a cat.

We can definitely help with monitoring BG at home. Most of us use human meters, which have affordable strips compared to pet meters. If you give us an idea of where you live (US? Canada? etc) we can probably give you some specific suggestions and hopefully help you help Momo feel better soon!

 

@Nan & Amber (GA) Thank you so much I panicked when I saw 30.

 

I'm sorry I am not experienced enough to give dosing advice, but posting a pic of the syringe you are using and where you are drawing to would help.
I couldn't imagine giving 30 units twice a day

 

Surely it couldn't be 30u?? A Vetsulin vial only has 400 units, it wouldn't last a week.

 

Oh, that makes me feel a bit better!
Thank you all for getting eyes on this

 

So sorry for the scare. I don’t know units of measurement for syringes. I saw reference of “10ml” and also “1unit” on my receipts/invoices from the vet and thought they were the same. I marked a red line on the syringe to where I draw the insulin to.
This should clear things up.

 

I’ll change the dosage in my signature when I hear back from you.

 

Thank you. We live in Florida, US.

 

Okay that's 3 units, whew. Your vet is still jumping the units too fast but that's a lot better than 30!

 

If you're in the US, probably the most affordable option for testing is Walmart's Relion brand of meters for human BG testing. When shopping around and deciding on a meter, the two key features are: size of blood drop (smaller the better) and price of test strips (the main ongoing expense).

You'll also want to get some lancets for doing the poke and getting a drop of blood-- get the larger size lancets (26 or 28 gauge, smaller number = larger lancet) to start with, the bigger hole they make is easier to get blood from at first (later on, you can move to the smaller size).

 

I see how I messed up. When I saw 10ml Vetsulin on the receipt I thought it was for the injection he got during his visit but it was for the whole bottle.

 

Thanks. I'll look for that one. I'm gonna solicit friends & family first then Walmart.

 

I am so glad to see that Momo's dose is 3 units Well, compared to 30 With the switch to FF pate, you'll definitely want to keep track of his BG at home. Going from the high carb dry to low carb wet can make a huge difference in blood sugar. In case you haven't had a chance to read about hypos, here's two links:
How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!
jojo and bunny's HYPO TOOL BOX

 

Hi,
I read both. Haven’t seen any of those symptoms in Momo so that’s good. I just back from Walmart with a shiny new meter. If all goes well I’ll be posting his BG number. Thanks again.

 

I'm late to this party! Hi! I just want to add...What a beautiful big boy you have there! Thats a LOTTA cat!
I hope we can help you navigate this disease to the standards of your Vet and YOU!
Diabetes is a marathon not a sprint and we will help Momo get to be the best Momo , Momo can be.

WELCOME to the best site on this planet to learn everything you need to know to help your kitty!
jeanne

 

Well done, one thing I see you bought the 30 gauge lancets, if you are trouble getting any blood ,
as Nan suggested above
get the larger size lancets (26 or 28 gauge, smaller number = larger lancet) to start with, the bigger hole they make is easier to get blood from at first (later on, you can move to the smaller size).
As you keep testing more capillaries will grow and it will become easier get blood

 

That is a lot of cat Jeanne, look at the size of those paws, more to cuddle with

 

Hes magnificent!

 

He sure is

 

I just realized we have another cat here named Mono

 

Less big kitty, more small mountain lion.

And yes, Momo the Magnificent is a most apposite monicker.


Mogs
.

 

Yes!!! That’s my big boy. Hurts my heart seeing him shrivel up like he has. Several people (including a vet tech) has tried to adopt him over the years

 

Yeah I totally forgot about looking for 26 gauge and specifically chose the tiniest one. Needless to say had a very hard time getting blood but we did. Here’s what we got 45 minutes after his Vetsulin dose of 3 units (1hr 15min post meal)

 

What does this number on people meter translate to for cats?

 

So we got 2 BG readings so far. Don’t know what the numbers mean yet. If anyone could give guidance please. Thanks a bunch.
9:40pm. 452
10:25pm. 318

 

Here is The Protocol for your Vetsulin insulin. Read through it in bits.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/

And concerning the good low and not good high bg levels
the aim is to get under or around 230 (13) the renal threshold
the bg ranges chart you find here
https://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-convert.htm

 

Congratulations on getting your first tests so soon! Welcome to the kitty vampire club!

Those numbers are high (not surprising for a diabetic cat). The "normal" range for cats using a human meter is about 50-120.

Vetsulin is an insulin that hits hard and fast, so as general guidelines, in the beginning you don't want to shoot any pre-shot number below 200, and you don't want him going lower than 100 at any time during the cycle.

We usually tell time relative to each shot (we're all in different time zones here!), so translating the numbers you got, you'd have:

+0.75: 452
+1.5: 318

Vetsulin usually hits max activity around +3 to +5. On the next shot, how about getting a pre-shot reading (to see if it's safe to shoot), and then a test around +2 to start?

 

Testing already! Yipeeeeee! GOOD FOR YOU AND FLUFFY MOMO!
*dancin here*

 

Help needed!!! Momo went to stay with his non-custodial parent while l was out of town for a +week. Even with feeding and insulin dose instructions I'm not sure it was followed. Today was 1st day back at checking Momo's BG. His pre-shot BG is 75 on the human meter. Can that be right? He just finished eating so we are now at step 2. I won't give his shot (step 3) til I hear from someone. Should I test the meter on myself to make sure it's working correctly? Recheck Momo's BG?

 

Test again straight away.


.

 

Will do.

 

BG is 106.

 

How long ago did you feed?

 

Don't give insulin. Will ask you some questions in a minute.

 

It's been about 30 minutes since he finished eating

 

The test strip window isn’t completely filled even though the meter stopped and gave reading. Does that matter?

 

Red's already asked you about the food, I see.

Was Momo tested at all while you were away? The results should be in the meter's memory.


Mogs
.

 

How is Momo acting? Normal? lethargic? Hopefully hes ok. Sending best wishes

 

He’s happy as can be. Purring, walked to the garage, now lounging in there.

 

No, not even once. His caregiver said he was afraid to.

 

The second reading will be food-influenced.

I can't help with the meter question, I have an Alphatrak.

Has Momo any history of testing positive for ketones or episodes of DKA?

.

 

`Sigh...

.

 

PMPS 75
Fed.
+0.5??? 106 (food influenced)

I think you are going to have to skip the shot tonight. 106 is still below the "no shoot" line and is food influenced. Plus the last week has been a great unknown.

It would help us tremendously if you could set up a spreadsheet soon. We are data driven and that is the first place we look.

 

well thats positive.

 

I agree with Red. 106 is WAY too low to give Vetsulin safely, data or no data.

Are you OK there now?


Mogs
.

 

FDMB SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS

 

If you need help setting up your spread sheet just ask. There are a couple of people here that will help you. I would tag them for you but I want to make sure you are here when they answer the tag.

What do you think Mogs?

 

I will do that tonight.

 

I agree with Kel and Mogs skip his shot tonight.

 

So that's alot of instructions. It may take awhile to get it done.

 

@Chris & China (GA) she can help you,

 

To my knowledge Momo hasn't been testing for ketones and I don't know what DKA is.

 

Absolutely no shot tonight. How often should I check his BG tonight?

 

Ketones, Diabetic Ketoacidosis (DKA), and Blood Ketone Meters


You can test any time but if you arent shooting insulin he should be ok. Unless he has keytones. You need to read up about them

 

Should I adjust his diet or am I even feeding him the correct amount?
He's eating three 3oz cans of Fancy Feast per day.

 

You might want to look into changing batteries in your meter or just buy a new one. If Momo has symptoms of ketosis he needs to see a vet.

 

I doubt his diet has anything to do with this. Although you may want to wait for more replies to make sure.

 

I'm sorry but I have to start dinner. I will check back with you in a while.

 

The meter is only 2 weeks old. Can I test it on myself to see if its working correctly?

 

Brenda, has Momo been fed low carb food all the time since you switched over?

Also, is he walking better? Have his hind legs strengthened?

Please check out the beginner's guide at the top of the Humulin/Vetsulin/Novolin support group's board.

If your AMPS test in the moming is less than 200, don't feed (stalling) and post a new thread with the title: STALLING - Need Help with Vetsulin Dose. Post a link to this thread in the opening post (copy the url for this thread then paste it into the first post on the new thread).

If you can withhold food from Momo for 2 hours and then test again it might give you a little more info to inform dosing decisions in the some better info to work with in the morning. Please advise whether Momo has ever had any issues with ketones or DKA because it needs to be taken into consideration by any member replying to your request for help.

I am in the UK so I'm signing off now, but if you need help post again and hopefully members in a different time zone will be able to assist.


Mogs
.

 

yes please do humans should range in the 90's

 

Yes, you can test yourself. The same number range applies. I often used myself as a control test when I saw a number that was lower and did not fit the pattern.
A warning: it does hurt your finger (so many nerve endings) more than it hurts Momo's ear.

 

Kel is right it hurts humans to test but not with cats. their nerve endings dont reach the outer edge of the ear.

 

Night to you, Mogs. Sleep well.

 

back in a bit

 

Oiche mhaith!

(On tablet, it's a smiley- and fada-free zone.)


Mogs
.

 

Test at +2 to make sure he is not going down.

In the morning, get a +11 (just so we have some idea) and ask for shot advice. Change the title of this thread to something like "Low numbers last night. Need AM shot advice." You can copy and paste a link to this thread and give a brief synopsis.
I'm not a vetsulin user but I do know the 75 earned Momo a reduction. Congratulations.

 

Be happy to set it up for you...takes me about a minute once I have some information from you.

Just click on my name and choose "start a conversation" to send me a private message.

 

Hi.
Came across your post late last night (UK time). Glad to see you are getting so much help - the people on here are wonderful !
Just wanted to say what a gorgeous big kitty Momo is - are you sure you didn't get a small lion ?
He is so beautiful. Fingers crossed that you get him stablised and back to his happy weight again soon

 

@Brenda7b How are things this morning?

 

Thanks Chris!

 

I think this got lost in the rush last night. When you get a chance, Brenda, can you let us know about the above?


Mogs
.

 

Whoa youre right!