Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 pmps +3 +5 +8 +10.5 amps

Status
Not open for further replies.
kse

kse

Very Active Member
Kitty 6/18 pmps +3 +4 +5

Pmps 440 shot 4.2. Ate 1can FF
+ 2. Fluids sub q
+3. 215. Ate 1 can FF
+4.195
+5. 189


6/19

Amps. 456. Ate 1 can FF. Shot 4.25
+1.5. Fed 1/4 can FF
+3. 362
+6. 219
+11.5. 239

Pmps. 285. Shot 2.8 ate 1 can FF
+3. 257
+5. 198
+8. 195
+9. Ate 1/2 pc. 0 carb deli turkey
+10.5. 476 ate 1/2 pc. Turkey
Amps. 446 ate 1 can FF
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps

Yes, I agree.

Thanks for the early morning help. I hope you have a Wonderful day!
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps

Wow Kim, so happy to see you guys hitting those blues! Good on ya!!!!
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps

+3 362

I fed 1/4 can FF at +1.5.

Obviously this is a lot slower than last night. Maybe too slow.

Looks like she is either very food sensitive or the fluids have a "wow" effect on her.

I think I need to cut back on the fluids-- it took a long time --too long for her to absorb them last night.
The positive there is she is not as dehydrated.
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6

+6 218


I'm going to hold off any food-- though she wants some!!! She has always been an eater.

She is very affectionate this morning, even after all the testing. Her teeth must have really been hurting her, because she seems like she feels a lot better overall.
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6

Morning Kim,
How much SQ fluids are you giving at a time, what size needles are you using? are you doing everyday? sometimes changing size or duration will help the fluids absorb better. Hope your day is good.

Nancy and Payne
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6

I'm liking the food experiments! It's hard to know what is food and what is other factors, but wow, it really looks to make a difference in how much she is dropping at different times. Very interesting! I don't know a huge amount about the food factor compared to some who really have a handle on it (I always free fed so basically I paid no attention to it as long as Bix was eating). It's fun to watch.

It does look like you will be able to use it to control the drop. And it's nice to know that a full can of FF basically stops her in her tracks - good to know in case you ever really need to do that! I found with Bix, the more times I gave him a little food if I was worried about lows, and tested to see how it affected him, the more it really gave me confidence in shooting the insulin, since I knew from experience I could deal with a crisis.

I'd stay with this dose and keep playing with the food and see what works best. I'd also let her eat a little now if she really wants it. It can stimulate the pancreas and hey.... just thinking about it is making me hungry too! LOL guess it's lunch time!!!!
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5

+11.5. 239.

Okay, this is cool-- but, I'm not use to being here.

I know it us okay to shoot-- but, I am going to wait 30 mins to see if she is zooming at the end.

Assuming the number stays close to 239- what do I shoot?

I shot 4.25 this am--
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

I'm thinking ... Wow! Where is Robin?!

3 units
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

Love and Hate when that happens!
not sure, see what happens at the +12 first...then you should decide....
are you working tomorrow...can you test a lot tonight?
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

Maybe if I put a rainbow or a candle in the icon, Sue will
Appear and help!!!
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

I'm on the phone with Robin and we feel because you have to work tomorrow, you don't need a crisis over night or in the morning...we think 2 units.
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

Maybe the rainbow did get Sue Friday night--- I haven't seen her around.

Quit laughing Nancy!
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

I'm going to test again--- hold tight...
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

Don't go to 3! you are getting decent #'s .... if you were in LL they would YELL at you and please NO CANDLES! It does seem that the SQ fluids are kicking in nicely, what size needle? how much? how often? I would go to 4u remember it's all about patience and gently teaching the pancreas, well to be a pancreas! Nancy
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

Need to remember she is a DKA kitty .... if you cut too much? have you taken a ketone test?
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

285---

I am feeding her now--

Vote again......
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

I look at it as she went from 456 at AMPS which you shot 4.25 down to 285 - roughly 200 point difference. So if you shoot the same on that 285 she could potentially fall to 85 or lower. So, I would go with a bigger reduction. BUT I have no experience with ketones...
I'd still go with 2 or 2.50 units.
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

I'll tell you in the morning what I shot!!!! It will be interesting to watch.

I have honey, Karo, med. carb FF, high carb FF, and ketone strips!!!! Whichever I need!

One interesting thing about the lower number tonight-- I didn't feed any after +1.5. Very unusual and different for us.

So, is the lower number food related, fluid related, or more duration due to a larger dose???

Who knows--but, maybe we can figure it out.
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

:lol: We posted at the same time. That was too perfect! :lol: Hope tonight goes well with whatever you shot.
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

Am I being unfair not telling?

Obviously, I had a big range to chose from-- 2 to 4....
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

Well...if Kitty goes low and you need help, it would help the others to know what you gave her. But I guess you don't have to tell us unless that happens....

ANTI-JINX!!!!!!!!
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

Ok-- I'm not bring fair!!!

I took all the unit votes and divided by the number of votes and got 2.8!

I shot 2.8-- it just felt right....But, probably short-- we'll see
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

Ok Nancy-- fluid info---

100 mls every other day and the needles say--- monoject 20x 1A-- they are small by comparison to some.

Until recently, the fluids absorbed quickly. But, last night about 1/4 of the ball was still there an hour later. In fact the floor was damp under her, where some had drained.

I think I need a new routine/schedule.

Any thoughts!
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 pmps +3

pmps +3. 257

I have no idea if this is a good drop or not, but I like that she didn't go to high before coming back down.
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 pmps +3

I like it too --- I just hope there is is enough insulin to last the cycle.
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 Dose????

kse said:
Maybe if I put a rainbow or a candle in the icon, Sue will
Appear and help!!!
Click to expand...

You are bad! :lol:

Where the heck has Robin been anyway?
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 pmps +3

I guess we will have to send Robin a retainer fee!
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 pmps +3

Sorry I missed all the excitement.

The lower number is probably a combo of all of those things. The food aspect is interesting, there are two lines of thought, 1) feeding small meals during the day to support the P 2) feeding a measured amount twice a day. I think that this is one of those ECID things.

A higher dose is not going to give you longer duration. Prozinc is in and out in about 12 hours. You saw that by how fast she was rising tonight. There is also no overlap or shed so what you shoot in will do it's work no matter what the PS was. That's why unlike the L's we can't hold a higher dose on lower PS's.

Good luck tonight, can't wait to see how she does.
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 pmps +3

I went to a big family picnic for Fathers Day today at my cousin Angel's house, great food, water baloons for the kids, an old fashioned egg toss, wine, music, it was so much fun we stayed all day. I barely got home in time to test and shoot.
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 pmps +3

Hi Robin,
So glad you got to have such a nice day. When you have a moment, could you explain "that's why you can't hold a higher dose on low ps" --maybe i'm being slow, but I don't understand what you are saying. Not disagreeing, just really don't understand.
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 pmps +3

Glad you had a good Family day!

I also went and had a mid afternoon dinner with my Father. I never take for granted the opportunities to share family time.

We are going to get you a pager for PZI emergencies!
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 pmps +3

I'm back too .... my thoughts on SQ fluids would be if it bothers you that she has a ball, you can slow down giving it to her. At the vets they can put 100 ml in a cat in 3-4 minutes, blows me away! and it will take hours for the ball to absorb but it will. I also use a 20g and it will take me 8-9 minutes for 100 ml, no ball. But if she is sick I will slow up the whole process and use a 22g, will take 20 minutes. If she is really sick I will do 50 in the AM, 50 in the PM.

Well, I have a houseful of people, (who think I am crazy with the diabetic cat .... ((relatives)) must go be nice.

Nancy and Payne
(who was watching everyone for food .... finally had to put her in bedroom,
remembering sardines and egg salad :)
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 pmps +3 +5

+5. 197

Not a lot of drop-- but, it is slow and not bad numbers for her.

Is this okay or would you like to see more drop by now?
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 pmps +3 +5

:lol: Kim, I do wish I had a live feed to this board, if I had known how fast she was rising I might have raised my vote.

Judy, "that's why you can't hold a higher dose on low ps" Prozinc doesn't have a shed that it can draw on or deplete, it is in and out of their system within about 12 hours so if 3u is a good dose on a 400 PS it will probably be too much on a PS of 200. The strength of the insulin is in the dose. Every PS is a new beginning.

I hope that makes more sense, if not ask again.
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 pmps +3 +5

OK, I am going to totally disagree with a lot of people here!!!!!

- No need for a dose reduction if the PS is over 200. One point of the no-shoot is to tell you that you want to keep to the same dose above 200 (or whatever your no shoot is). You reduce (or wait) if you get a PS under 200. If there was a need to reduce or wait if your PS is 250, then the no-shoot would be 250, but it is most definitely NOT.

- You don't measure PZI by subtracting the absolute #s in the drop from PS to nadir. You measure it in percentages. You got a 52% drop today, so on a 285 PS you can expect a nadir around 135. Now that is not exact by any means, but that is the way to estimate it rather than using absolute numbers. [ETA I realize I misunderstood what someone wrote and no one actually said this. But it still applies to the alternative - if her PS came down by 40% today, her next PS might come down by another 40% if you stuck with the dose, which would put her around 170 for the next PS, so on that basis you might shave 0.2 off the dose, although you could opt to aim for the 170 PS and then plan to reduce the dose a little if you did get that.]

- You do get longer duration with a higher dose, and least on PZI Vet I saw that pretty consistently with Bix.

All that said I might have pulled back to 4u just b/c you are in uncharted waters now and you might want a little more margin for error and not want to be up all night. But you want to capitalize on the breakthrough, and keep in mind that the PSs is in the high 200s, it's not like it is low 200s or something where I can understand getting nervous. The 239 maybe, but she was up what, 50 points already in 1/2 hour? That is zoom, and means she needs the insulin.

I mean, I do understand getting nervous :YMHUG: and I have done the exact same thing and reduced a lot (though I have to say I reduced a lot on 150 PSs, not ones near 300! :razz: ). Typically on a PS under 200 you need a dose reduction no more than 0.2u, so on a higher PS reducing a lot is just counterproductive IMO.

Now she'll go and prove me wrong :mrgreen: but I would expect you might get some decent drop early in the cycle due to some possible overlap, but then she'll go higher later in the cycle and be high in the morning. It's all part of the learning process and I don't mean to sound criticial, it's just frustrating to watch it in action. I had people yell at me (which I did NOT appreciate, LOL!) in my time... now I get what they must have been feeling as they watched along! :lol:
 
Re: Kitty 6/19 amps +3 +6 +11.5 pmps +3 +5

Rob & Harley said:
Judy, "that's why you can't hold a higher dose on low ps" Prozinc doesn't have a shed that it can draw on or deplete, it is in and out of their system within about 12 hours so if 3u is a good dose on a 400 PS it will probably be too much on a PS of 200. The strength of the insulin is in the dose. Every PS is a new beginning.
Click to expand...

Since I'm being disagreeable, why stop now? :lol: I have seen many times that it can last into +13 or +14 before it poops out. That's where you can achieve overlap between shots. Some cats don't get that, but many do. With Bix I saw that pretty clearly, and he would typically get good results on cycle 3 or cycle 4 of a new dose - that's overlap in action.

I'd agree that a good dose on a 400 PS - if you define good dose being you hit a green nadir - will be too high on a 200 PS. But rarely do we see someone actually shooting that way. A dose that gives you a 180 nadir on a 400 PS has some hope of giving you a green nadir on a 200 PS. So that's why you don't want to reduce the dose when you get the lower PS - finally you are in a place where there is some hope of a green nadir. If you are getting a good nadir on the 400 PS, THEN you reduce. When you aren't seeing that, there's just no need.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top