Kaz - 911 HELP -

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Claire and Kaz

Claire and Kaz

Member Since 2022
Kaz's BG has dropped from 124 (gave his insulin) then dropped to 51 and now 46 do I need to get him to the hospital?
 
Do you have karo syrup or honey? If so rub some on his gums and also offer him a little bit of high carb food. What are his numbers now? That is quite low on a pet meter, so you’ll want to try to get him up quickly with the honey/karo and high carb.
 
This is a Libre button so people monitor. I have to wait another 10 minutes to get reading. I gave him some of his food but I will give him some kibble.
He's alert but I know this is too low.
 
[USER=10387]@Claire[/USER] said:
This is a Libre button so people monitor. I have to wait another 10 minutes to get reading. I gave him some of his food but I will give him some kibble.
He's alert but I know this is too low.
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Oh that’s good that it’s a human monitor! The spreadsheet says alpha track. Post the next reading you get. If she’s up above 50 that’s good. If not you will want to feed a little more high carb and keep testing/feeding until she’s safe.
 
I fed some kibble not sure how much I should give him but its gone from 51, 46, 57, 60, and now 73.

It's my understanding that insulin kicks in about 5 hours after its administered. Does this mean over the next three hours it will drop again?

Should I not be giving him insulin if the number was low prior to his dose???

The vet said as long as he ate to give him 1 1/2 units every 12 hours. He ate.
 
If you get a much lower preshot than normal, it is best to stall, dont feed and post and ask for help. Then test after 20 minutes to see if the BG is rising.
Because it is so early in the cycle, I would give some higher carb wet food if you have it. You will need to keep monitoring closely for the next several hours. However he is safe at the moment.
If you don’t have any high carb wet food give the dry.
 
Good! 73 is safe for now. You just want to make sure he stays above 50. If he drops below, feed him a little high carb and then test again in 30 minutes.

The onset of the insulin can definitely vary. When my cat would drop below 50 it would usually be between between +2 and +3, so that’s not uncommon. And although between +5 and +6 is when they say cats typically nadir, it can definitely vary too from cat to cat.

He did earn a reduction to 1.25 units for the next shot.
 
Copy/paste from other thread:

Test again 30 mins from last test. He usually nadirs pretty early so hopefully won't have to keep this up long.

New dose is now 1.25U...that was a drastic change just from food, so normally I'd recommend a 0.5U reduction...I am hesitant to do that due to recent DKA.

It is your choice. If you can keep an eye on him, and you can do the manual tests in case the Libre gives you trouble, do the 1.25U. He will likely bounce overnight and give you a similar cycle to 4/7 tomorrow


Edit: I would do 1.25U if above 150. Below that stall without feeding and ask for help.
 
So I would be extremely uneasy about giving him no insulin especially after 5 days in the hospital. However I am happy to bring his insulin down to 1 1/4 vs 1 1/2 if his levels are in the 100's vs the 200's.
If he's in double digits I would not give him insulin but I would call the hospital.
 
FrostD said:
Copy/paste from other thread:

Test again 30 mins from last test. He usually nadirs pretty early so hopefully won't have to keep this up long.

New dose is now 1.25U...that was a drastic change just from food, so normally I'd recommend a 0.5U reduction...I am hesitant to do that due to recent DKA.

It is your choice. If you can keep an eye on him, and you can do the manual tests in case the Libre gives you trouble, do the 1.25U. He will likely bounce overnight and give you a similar cycle to 4/7 tomorrow


Edit: I would do 1.25U if above 150. Below that stall without feeding and ask for help.
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ok if hes below 150 I'll ask and even if hes starving for food you say not to feed him? I have to keep his insulin at 6-6.30am and 6-6.30pm as this is when I have to leave for work. So if I push his insulin off won't that mess his cycle up?
 
[USER=10387]@Claire[/USER] said:
ok if hes below 150 I'll ask and even if hes starving for food you say not to feed him? I have to keep his insulin at 6-6.30am and 6-6.30pm as this is when I have to leave for work. So if I push his insulin off won't that mess his cycle up?
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At most you will stall just 20 minutes, then he will get his snack.
 
[USER=10387]@Claire[/USER] said:
I can move it back to 5.30am and get up at 5am. I was told to keep it at 12 hour intervals?
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Yes we need to keep it at 12 hour intervals but I was wondering if you could move it back permanently so you have more time. Would that still work in the pm shot.
If you did that you would have to do it in 1/4 hour increments over a couple of days.
 
FrostD said:
She has the wet DM...she stopped giving that hence the drop (I suspect maybe something else happening but that was the big change tonight)
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I think your right he went from zero carbs in morning meals to 10% carbs in evening meal back to zero carbs for both morning and evening which is what he was eating prior to being diagnosed with diabetes. Thought I was doing the right thing now I know he needs some carbs just have to figure out the right balance.
 
We really want to keep the insulin as high as is safely possible because of the recent DKA, so if that means you need to feed some ‘higher carb’ low carb food, than that is what is needed. I would give a mixture of the tiki and the 10% food for all the cycles so that he is getting the same number of carbs for each cycle…
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Yes we need to keep it at 12 hour intervals but I was wondering if you could move it back permanently so you have more time. Would that still work in the pm shot.
If you did that you would have to do it in 1/4 hour increments over a couple of days.
Click to expand...
I'm a bit apprehensive about doing this as I am already trying to work out how to slowly bring him to 8am/8pm for when I travel. This now scares the hell out of me as no one else will be checking blood sugar they will only administer the insulin.
I have to try and figure this out prior to this.
I'm beginning to see that if I leave a small amount of carbs in his diet it will keep him stable.
 
Wjate
[USER=10387]@Claire[/USER] said:
I think your right he went from zero carbs in morning meals to 10% carbs in evening meal back to zero carbs for both morning and evening which is what he was eating prior to being diagnosed with diabetes. Thought I was doing the right thing now I know he needs some carbs just have to figure out the right balance.
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Whatever you do make it even both cycles like you said. Usually a 2-3% variance doesn't have a big impact, but yes going from 10% to zero is big.

If you want/need to use up the DM that's fine, I'd just do very small portions early in the cycle at consistent times, like +1 both cycles (high carbs early in the cycle are better because the insulin effect is strongest). You can also keep it on hand for low numbers like this, or sometimes you can return it. Or you can mix it with the Tiki but the textures really don't match
 
[USER=10387]@Claire[/USER] said:
I'm a bit apprehensive about doing this as I am already trying to work out how to slowly bring him to 8am/8pm for when I travel. This now scares the hell out of me as no one else will be checking blood sugar they will only administer the insulin.
I have to try and figure this out prior to this.
I'm beginning to see that if I leave a small amount of carbs in his diet it will keep him stable.
Click to expand...
Ok so we scrap that idea.
Do you have a timed feeder for him to leave food out for later when you are not there?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
We really want to keep the insulin as high as is safely possible because of the recent DKA, so if that means you need to feed some ‘higher carb’ low carb food, than that is what is needed. I would give a mixture of the tiki and the 10% food for all the cycles so that he is getting the same number of carbs for each cycle…
Click to expand...
FrostD said:
Wjate

Whatever you do make it even both cycles like you said. Usually a 2-3% variance doesn't have a big impact, but yes going from 10% to zero is big.

If you want/need to use up the DM that's fine, I'd just do very small portions early in the cycle at consistent times, like +1 both cycles (high carbs early in the cycle are better because the insulin effect is strongest). You can also keep it on hand for low numbers like this, or sometimes you can return it. Or you can mix it with the Tiki but the textures really don't match
Click to expand...

So I was told by the vet to feed the cat and then give insulin. As the Libre button is on I can take a reading prior to food. I then feed wait about 15-20 minutes and then give him his insulin. I then HAVE to leave for work NO CHOICE. Again as the button is on I check again before I leave.
Last week I managed to work half days at home but I can not do this next week or the week after as these are my two busy weeks and I will get FIRED if I can not manage the schedule.
I need a plan in place within the next 24 hours that I can manage.


There is not much more I can take mentally. I hardly eat anymore I've lost over 10 pounds I hardly sleep and I throw up. I am trying to do everything that I am asked/told to do but I can not keep this up much longer
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Ok so we scrap that idea.
Do you have a timed feeder for him to leave food out for later when you are not there?
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This will also not work. I have another cat who is now 3 lbs over weight. If I turn my back he will eat all Kaz's food. So no this is not an option and no I can not lock them in separate rooms all day. Its a small apartment and Kaz has separation issues if he's not with his brother.
Seems like there is no solution.
 
Do you have anyone who could come in to give Kaz some food during the day?
I would go back to giving some more carbs in his food. I’m not talking high carb stuff, but the higher low carb foods.
Reduce the dose to 1.25 units.
Let me think of some other solutions for you. I can see you are in a hard place.:bighug:
 
Dropped again back at 52 just given him some food which I am hoping is higher carb not on the list that was sent to me.
 
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He refuses to eat the pate kind does not matter how hungry he is but he will eat this. Hes had so much food tonight hoping this is not bad.
 

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Hendrick eats that as a medium carb option (MC), it is 10% and he won't eat the pate either haha

it does raise his blood sugar pretty quickly if he is low. It's not bad it's just not as low carb as I like to feed him on a regular basis.
 
The 10% is fine at the moment, especially as we need to find some higher low carb for Kaz to eat when you are not there.
If you mix that with the tiki…..I don’t mean mix but give both in the same cycle….it will equate to 5% carbs over the cycle.
If he is lower and you have to leave for work, I would feed the 10% carb food and then leave out a bit of the dry to be safe if you can’t get back during the day.
 
As Kaz wasn’t eating anything after the hospital visit I had bought bunch of food and I had some wernuva - duck and chicken and I am guessing it’s about 10-15% gave that. He’s now at 115.
Going to try and sleep for a hour and set an alarm to get up every hour through the night till it stabilises.
 
[USER=10387]@Claire[/USER] said:
This will also not work. I have another cat who is now 3 lbs over weight. If I turn my back he will eat all Kaz's food. So no this is not an option and no I can not lock them in separate rooms all day. Its a small apartment and Kaz has separation issues if he's not with his brother.
Seems like there is no solution.
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We have 4 cats. When Wilbur was first diagnosed, we had him, an obese cat, an allergic to lots of food cat, and a no special needs cat. the only foods allergy cat could eat were high in carbs.

we somehow stumbled upon Meowspace (https://meowspace.biz/) and it has been a game changer. Every cat can have their own diet in specific quantities.
 
[USER=10387]@Claire[/USER] said:
As Kaz wasn’t eating anything after the hospital visit I had bought bunch of food and I had some wernuva - duck and chicken and I am guessing it’s about 10-15% gave that. He’s now at 115.
Going to try and sleep for a hour and set an alarm to get up every hour through the night till it stabilises.
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Yes go and rest.
When you have time can you list the food you have that you bought and we will see if we can find the number of carbs
 
Kaz's numbers are all over. I was testing during night just too tired to post. At 2.28am his numbers spiked in the other direction to 438 and now they are standing at 497.
I am assuming that the Tiki food is now the best to give as it has no carbs and I don't want his numbers increasing higher than they currently are. It's 5.30am now but I need to feed within next 10-15 minutes as his injection is due for around 6.05am-6.10am
 
[USER=10387]@Claire[/USER] said:
Kaz's numbers are all over. I was testing during night just too tired to post. At 2.28am his numbers spiked in the other direction to 438 and now they are standing at 497.
I am assuming that the Tiki food is now the best to give as it has no carbs and I don't want his numbers increasing higher than they currently are. It's 5.30am now but I need to feed within next 10-15 minutes as his injection is due for around 6.05am-6.10am
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It’s not surprising Kaz has bounced from the 46. Try not to worry about it. It is a normal reaction by Kaz. Don’t forget you have to give the reduced dose even though he is high at the moment.
 
Hi Bron & Sheba

I'm going to take your response that you agree and that I should give him the Tiki and then usual insulin amount of 1 1/2 vs the amount discussed last night of 1 1/4?
 
The best I can do for a 1/4 dose is right in the middle of the 1 and 1 1/2 there is no line for 1/4. I know its a stupid question but right now I'm full of them.
Going to give this in next few minutes.

Then do I stay at 1 1/4 for this evening too?

Thanks for your help

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[USER=10387]@Claire[/USER] said:
Gave him a 1 1/4 dose and his pre reading is now HI. One extreme to the other.
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Yes, stick with 1 1/4 for 6 cycles unless he drops low again.
The hi is from bouncing from the 46 during the last cycle. This is very normal in newly diagnosed cats.
Keep up the food and fluids and testing for ketones…this is important!
You are managing all this really well. We know how hard it can be.:bighug:

did you see the suggestion from @WilburCat in post 41. That is a great idea and might go some way into solving your problems.
 
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