Just found out my kitty has diabetes and Im heartbroken!

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Bid's Mommy

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My cat is a 7 year old male and he was just diagnosed yesterday.. we go back tomorrow to learn how to do the insulin but I've been a mess all day and night... he was prescribed lantis but its 100 dollars for 30 days and I don't know how much longer my husband and I can afford this. This website seems pretty awesome so I came here to vent since I can't sleep...
 
Hi and welcome.

It is pretty scary in the beginning, but it does get easier.

Lantus lasts much longer than 30 days. That is based on manufacturer guidelines, the Latus users on the board have used their insulin for a lot longer than that. There's a insulin support group on this forum for lantus users that has lots of information in the stickies about insulin, for instance this one on how to properly store and handle the insulin.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151

What type of food does your kitty eat?

Was the FD (feline diabetes) diagnosed based on a fructosamene test or just one BG from bloodwork? What symptoms does your cat have?

There can be underlying causes to increased blood sugar, sometimes changing the diet to high protein, low carb canned or raw could be all that you need to do, sometimes a dental extraction is needed.

For those reasons and many more hometesting your cats blood sugar is important. As with a child of your own, you wouldn't shoot insulin blind, without knowing what the BG (blood glucose number) is, same goes for your kitty. To keep him safe and so that you know how he's doing on insulin and if the dose is correct, it's best to hometest. We can help you with all of that and although it sounds scary, it's pretty simple.

Please read the FAQs and feel free to ask lots of questions.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2502

I'm looking forward to learning more about you and your little man :)
 
Good morning and welcome to FDMB.

We all understand the shock and overwhelming feelings you are going through. We have all been through it. But I can tell you that the outlook is not as bad as you fear. Feline diabetes is a very managable disease. It is managed through diet and often insulin. But your cat can still have many wonderful years with you.

Lantus is a good insulin. It is expensive, but there are ways to save money. First, ask your vet to write the prescription for the Solostar pens. These are prefilled pens and you should be able to use most of it before it becomes ineffective. Also, for human use, once opened Lantus is only used for 28 days. However, for cats, many of us are able to use our insulin for almost 3 months before we need to change to a fresh vial or pen. There is also a $25 coupon for the Solostar pens that expires 12/31 https://mprsetrial.mckesson.com/lantus5593/appSecLantus5593CouponReq.jsp. By using the pens instead of the vials, you get five times the amout of usable insulin for less than twice the cost of a vial. One package of pens will last almost a year. Also with the dose, we recommend that you start low, at 1 unit twice a day. If you start too high, you risk hypoglycemia and also finding his optimal dose. Most of the cats here are on 1 or 2 units twice a day. Insulin is not dosed based on the weight of your cat. If your vet wants to start higher than 1 unit, question it.

Hometesting is something else we recommend. You will test before every shot to make sure it is safe to give insulin. Your vet can show you how to test or we have videos you can watch. By testing before every shot, you will prevent hypoglycemia and it makes it easier to regulate his diabetes.

Last is diet. A low carb, high protein canned food diet will help immensely in getting diabetes under control. You do not need a prescription diet. Many of us feed our cats either Friskies or Fancy Feast canned foods. And if you are feeding dry, get your cat off of it as soon as possible. Dry food is one of the main causes of feline diabetes.

I know you will have lots of questions. Ask us anything you have questions about. We have all been through what you are going through now and we are here to help.
 
jmlapointe5 said:
My cat is a 7 year old male and he was just diagnosed yesterday.. we go back tomorrow to learn how to do the insulin but I've been a mess all day and night.

Welcome! Many newbies are a mess when they find out that thier cat is diabetic. Diabetes is very treatable if you are willing to put in the effort to learn about the disease and how to treat it well for your cat :smile:

jmlapointe5 said:
.. he was prescribed lantis but its 100 dollars for 30 days and I don't know how much longer my husband and I can afford this. This website seems pretty awesome so I came here to vent since I can't sleep...


Instead of the 10ml bottle of Lantus, which does cost over $100 and may last only a month or so, ask your vet to write you a prescription for either the Lantus OptiClick pen cartridges or the Lantus SoloStar pens. Both of these come in a pack of 5 which is essentially a 5 month supply :smile: Each pen or cartrdige contains 3ml of Lantus so you are throwing away less each month, too. The cost for a box of pens or cartridges is about $150 or so but that breaks down to $30 a pen/cartridge. Much more cost effective :smile: Use regular insulin syringes with the pens and cartridges. You do not need pen needles or anything. The preferred insulin syringes to use are U100 3/10cc (30 unit) with half unit markings. No big deal if you don't have these right now but be sure to buy them next time :smile:

There are other ways to keep the cost of Lantus down, such as buying from a reputable online Canadian pharmacy which many people here do. There is a $25 coupon for Lantus here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=30098

Lantus is a great insulin to use so it's well worth the expensive, IMO. There a some things you need to know about handling Lantus because it is pretty fragile. See this sticky: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151

If you need more tips on how to keep your cat's diabetic costs down, see this http://binkyspage.tripod.com/frugal.html

What food is your cat eating? You don't need the expensive prescription junk. Cats here eat either low carb canned food (such as Fancy Feast and Wellness) or RAW.

How much Lantus per day did your vet prescribe? 1 unit twice a day is a good, safe starting dose.

Do you know about testing your cat's blood glucose levels at home? It's easy to do once you get over the learning curve and can save you money by not having the vet do it.
 
Aw, don't you worry now! Your kitty is going to be just fine!
The others have given you lots of info, but I wanted to let you know that it is far from the end of the world!

Now, while there are some kitties who may need insulin all their life, there are many who just need a bit of a helping hand, and then go off insulin in a short while; remission IS possible and has been for quite a few around her.
And you know what else? There have been some who just need their diet changed! Can you imagine if you just take away all the dry food ( I call it kitty krack) and switch over to wet low carb cat food, your cat's BG numbers returned to normal and you did not need to give any insulin. The food issue is so very important to the health of your kitty and plays into the diabetic situation hugely.

You are in the very best place now, I think. There are so very many knowledgeable people here who know a great deal about FD because they have lived it. Listen to what they have to say because they know.

We have all been where you are now. Hey, I did not even know cats could have diabetes! I did not know anything at all when I arrived here! But with the help of the people on this site, my two cats are doing great.

Lantus and Levemir are good long lasting insulins as has been suggested, and they are much better than some of the other insulins around.

Ask all questions you have because to know the road ahead, ask the man coming back or walking alongside you.
 
Hi and Thank You..

Everyone here seems very helpful and like they know what they are talking about.. I'm not very happy with our vet and she hasn't given us much information at all so I'm in the process of looking for a different Vet who is familiar with diabetes. It seems like it will get better and I am willing to try anything that will help him, it's just the cost is crazy, I think we've probably spent about 400 dollars this week alone. (And my husband hours were just cut, plus his car died!) So that's just a little of how things have been going! :shock: He was majorly on dry food before yesterday.. I got some Purina DM canned food from the Vet yesterday and he seems to like it for now. He wasn't too sure at first but is better this morning.. What kind of Friskies or Fancy Feast do you get? Just the ready wet food from Petsmart? They make so many kinds and I've been reading so much on here but it's a lot of information and a little overwhelming so I'm trying to take in and learn as much as possible.

Right now he's only symptoms are drinking and urinating a lot.. He goes from drinking a ton (about a cup a day) to the next day not drinking as much, He seems to drink more at night. The Vet took a bloodtest and that was it for the diagnosis. She never told us what his blood levels were at or anything (I'm assuming they will tell us today at our 3:30 appt)

I'm definitely going to ask the Vet about those insulin pens. And see what the Vet says.

Thank you for all the help!! :smile:
 
Here is a great list of foods on a budget, but I would stay away from any of the Sophisticat varieties IN GRAVY (too many carbs):
http://www.felinediabetes.com/DrLynneFoodList.pdf

Chin up! Sue is a 6.5 year old male who only needed Lantus for 3 weeks before his pancreas decided to start working again! I would start the wet food immediately. He will need less insulin if he is on a wet food diet.
 
Many of the Friskies foods are fine. Just stay away from foods that contain gravy and limit the amount of fish. My cats eat the Turkey & Giblits, Mixed Grill, Supreme Supper and Ocean Whitefish. If it says gravy on the label, I don't buy it.
 
Good Morning and Welcome,

Everyone else has already beat me to giving you all the great links so I'll just offer a little bit of encouragement.

Diabetes is so treatable and it really doesn't have to break the bank. I have 11 cats, but only 1 is a diabetic. They all eat what my diabetic eats. Even with 11 all eating canned food it still only runs us about $40/week. (remember that is feeding 11 cats). And I have several very big boys (all over 15lbs) but the still only eat about 1 to 1 1/2 cans (5.5oz) of good old fashioned Friskies or 9-lives. I just stick to those that are 8% carbs or less off Binky's list.

I adopted my sugarcat Max from this very board just a little over a month ago, so trust me if this wasn't an easy disease to treat I would not have volunteered to adopt a diabetic after losing my first sugarcat (not to diabetes). But also because I did adopted another diabetic after my first one passed away I'm going to nag you about learning to home test.

First off it is the safest way to keep your baby safe on the insulin. Second it will save you a ton of money, because you won't be going off to the vet every couple of weeks to have curves run. You can do it all from home and either take your numbers to your clinic or as I do, just email them to your vet. Not only will this keep cash in your wallet, it will also give you truer numbers, as kitty will not be all stressed out from being at the vet's (strange noise, people, sounds etc) and stress raises BGs.

A lot of us can completely understand the stress you and your husband are under right now with the money. So we have lots of tricks of the trade so to speak to keep the costs down.

Just remember to breathe, and when you have a question post it here and we will do our best to hold your hand/paw through it all. Oh yeah vent anytime you want..we have all been through it.

Mel & Max
 
The canned food charts are here: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html

On both charts, look at the column for carbs and choose the foods that have a number 10 or less. These are "low carb". Regular Fancy Feast is on the "old" chart and there are several low carb varieties.

There are many other brands of food you can feed: Wellness, Nature's Variety, Merrick, Special Kitty, etc. Feed whatever brand your cat likes to eat and you can find in the local stores without going broke.

Keep a few cans of "high carb" (over 18% carbs) of canned food in your kitchen. These will come in handy if your cat ever becomes hypoglycemic. The high carbs will raise blood glucose levels pretty fast. The Fancy Feast grilled and sliced varieties in gravy work well for this purpose. Also keep corn syrup on hand to use for a hypo. In fact, keep a "hypo toolbox" fully stocked to use just in case: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2354
 
OK I have to comment on the 'look for a vet that knows about diabetes'.

Don't waste too much time looking because there really are not that many around.
Even the vet office where I take my two know next to nothing, and my favorite vet openly admits it... BUT, that same vet is amazing with dentals and such a fantastic diagnostician.
I tell her a couple symptoms and she does a few checks, then knows what tests to have done and what meds to give. I LOVE this vet.
But, she knows squat about feline diabetes.... and never mind knowing more than having seen pictures of cats with visual signs of acromegaly.

I am pretty sure that you are going to find many people around here who will say things similar. I don't fault my vet; she can't know everything and specialize in all that could occur.

I share my learnings with my vets. And I have learned ever so much just from the people on this board. There have been many times that vets were unaware of warnings on some meds and insulins - reject Caninsulin / Vetsulin as an example as there are warnings on them.

Treating does NOT have to be expensive, seriously. There is so much you can do on your own, and no reason to go to the vet.

1. Scrap that expensive and lousy vet food. Get some decent low carb foods like friskies or 9Lives or fancy feast. Those brands are way better and way cheaper than the vet foods. Binky's list is fantastic... I printed it out and used to take it with me when I went food shopping. So don't worry about food. If you feed the low carb wet food, you will need less or no insulin. Stay away from the gravies or grilled ones. Go with the pates.
I don't have my links here, I am at work, so ask someone to give you the link to the food list.

2. You don't need to take your kitty to the vet for any 'curves' or 'to be regulated'. Just get a home testing kit, it's just a meter like humans use to test their own BG. Your cost will be your test strips and the lancets for poking kitty's ear for the blood drop to test.

3. I don't know if others will mention it, but I keep copies of ALL tests and results and charges for each of my cats. Shadoe and Oliver have their own binders of paperwork. I even started up a binder for my new kitten. When your vet takes blood for tests, you will want to see the results for yourself... my vet says to me 'everything looks fine' NOPE not good enough. I want to see the values myself and I want to look them up online to be SURE they are OK. You will feel more in control, especially when someone asks you about a certain value - you'll be able to look up the numbers and answer.

Your expenses can be minimized greatly, so please don't worry.
Many people use the Relion meter as the test strips are much cheaper than for other meters. Other than insulin and test strips, I don't think you will have much other expenses.
If your vet fusses about your not feeding that expensive vet food, just say that your kitty gagged on it and you tried some friskies and kitty loves it. Besides you cannot afford the expense of the vet food.

Good luck at the vets today and be sure to get copies of all the tests and the results done. They are yours, you paid for them.
 
Thanks again.. My husband really appreciates all the information too and we've been printing all this out!

Just a few more questions that I can think of right now... How often should we home test? We are planning on getting a glucose meter tonight. Any tips on a really good one? Or does it matter..

And thanks for all the information on the food.. really wish I had known years ago how bad the dry food is for cats! I had no clue.. I always fed him the wet food but as a treat like a few days.. I would have had him on wet canned food for years if I had known!

I was also curious, what does OTJ mean? I'm new to all these abbreviations. lol

I don't blame my Vet for not knowing much about diabetes.. I'm not even sure what she knows. I just don't feel like they've given us a lot of information or have talked to us much about this. Also about a month ago she gave him a cortisone shot without telling us any side affects or anything. I don't know if that caused the diabetes, I've heard 1 shot probably couldn't do that but I don't know. They just don't communicate the way I'd like.

Some people think we are crazy going threw all these and we should just put him down.. I don't understand some people!! For one he's only 7 years old and if I don't try everything I can I wouldn't be able to live with myself!!
 
we test blood sugar before every shot, so at least 2x per day minimum.

choose a meter that
1) you can afford the test strips -- figure an average of 3 to 4 per day
2) has "sipping action" strips
3) uses a tiny amount of blood 0.3 to 0.5 microliters

I like the Maxima AST that I get from www.hocks.com I have never seen it in a store -- so i have to order online before I run out.

OTJ means Off the Juice, or diet controlled and no longer needing insulin injections

With a change in diet and a few weeks on insulin to allow his pancreas to rest and heal -- you may also find yourself with a diet controlled diabetic kitty.
 
jmlapointe5 said:
How often should we home test? We are planning on getting a glucose meter tonight. Any tips on a really good one? Or does it matter..

You want to test before every shot. For newbies, we recommend not giving insulin if the meter reading is less than 200. Also, after a week on insulin, you can start doing your own curves at home. This means testing every 2 or 3 hours in between shots to determine how much the blood glucose (BG) levels drop. Using this information you can then determine how well the insulin is working and if a dose change is needed. Don't worry, we will help you interpret the results. :mrgreen:

You can use any brand of human glucose meter including store brands. Many of us use Walmart's Relion brand meters. The meters are not expensive and the strips are around $40 for a box of 100. The strips will be where your expenses occur. So pick a meter that has strips that fit in your budget. You will also need lancets to poke the ear. It is optional if you want to use the lancet device that will come with your meter. Many of us find it easier to use the lancets freehand.
 
At the very least you are going to want to test before each shot, to make sure his numbers are high enough to warrant the insulin. We will get into curves later.

OTJ = Off the Juice, or in remission and off insulin.

I personally use the Relion Mini from Wal-mart, I think the meter is like $12 and the strips are the cheapest I have found, I think I paid like $20 for 50. So the whole thing ran like maybe $35 tops. What I like about my meter is that it takes a very small blood sample and our Wal-mart is open 24 hours so I can go out for more strips at 2am if I need to. Luckily right now I only have to test my guy once a month just to keep an eye on him.

Mel & Max
 
The shot may or m ay not have been the cause...if it was, then there is an increased chance of remission.

Now, many of us were not active participants in our cats' veterinary care until the diabetes diagnosis...learn from this and move on and become proactive. Ask questions and insist on information before any medication, including potential side effects, other options, etc.

Keep your chin up, things will improve :)
 
Here's a glossary of the crazy terms we use: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15885

You have to test before each shot to make sure it is safe to give insulin. Then you want to test midway in the cycle to see how low the insulin takes him. That helps you adjust the dose.

I love my vet but she didn't know much about diabetics. But she supported my hometesting and diet change and was on board with the doses I gave. I figure most vets are like gps - they know a little about a lot of things, but they are not specialists.
 
jmlapointe5 said:
And thanks for all the information on the food.. really wish I had known years ago how bad the dry food is for cats! I had no clue.. I always fed him the wet food but as a treat like a few days.. I would have had him on wet canned food for years if I had known!

We all wish we'd known about wet food! I tell everyone I know about the evils of dry food.
http://www.catinfo.org
 
ALso, I don't think anyone suggested it yet but I'd recommend that you go over to the Insulin Support Groups / Lantus forum - and introduce yourselves there. Lantus is a long-acting insulin and is therefore handled a little differently, it's not just the pre-shot numbers that decide doses. The folks in Lantus Land have YEARS of collective experience and are ever-generous with help, advice and SUPPORT.

Also please note that fpr Lantus you do not want to be changing doses daily or usually by any more than 0.25 units at a time (no matter what your Vet may say). Many people (including us!) may well start out at too high a dose and then raise it too quickly and worse, by too much. But patience and consistency are the keys to success with Lantus. If you want to try for Tight Regulation you will have to be ready to do a LOT of ear-pokes! But again do not panic - yes it is weird at first but nearly all our cats (and owners!!) get used to it very quickly and very well. Don't worry - once you get the hang of it, it gets easier every day and no matter how many times a day you test, you will not do any lasting damage to your cat's ears!

Once you go to the Lantus forum, read all the Sticky posts at the top (print out the best ones if you can) - but take your time - get acquainted with it all slowly - there is a lot to take in, all at once! There will be a very quick response there - so be ready!!

Remember always that too much insulin is (nearly always!) MUCH more risky than too little insulin - so don't panic and don't raise the dose until you know why you should....

Ask lots of questions in LL (Lantus Land) - don't be shy!! We have all been exactly where you are right now.. and will understand...!
 
Alrighty so we got back from the Vet a little while ago.. And we just did our first insulin shot..

Not too sure how I feel about the information the Vet gave us.. I'm kinda nervous cause she prescribed us 2 units of the Lanus 2 times a day, 12 hours apart. So did it at 6:30pm and will do it again at 6:30am.. She seemed kinda surprised we wanted to home test and said we didn't have too and that we should come back a week from today to see how it's working and if he needs more of the Lantus each time! Does that seem like a lot to give him??

We asked if we should test his blood before each shot and she said that wasn't necessary?
But she did tell us we could get the Glucose Meter and test him once a week, that we should get the Alpha-Trak Glucometer.. Does anyone have that one?

She told us not to do the Fancy Feast.. She said that the DM canned food and the DM dry food is the best. And didn't think our cat would ever come off insulin with the Fancy Feast.. I don't know what to do.. Do I do what I want and not to listen to her or what.. After telling her I only wanted a wet food diet for him, she sent us home with a bag of dry food anyways.. and didn't proceed to tell us to gradually get him off the dry food he's been eating! Also he doesn't seem to like the DM canned food that much.

We got his blood results back and his glucose is at 383. She did an urinalysis on him today and found no ketones..

Umm I think that's all the information I can think of right now.. What does everyone think of that?
 
Your vet is absolutely WRONG about the dry food. Read this:
http://catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes

Do exactly what you want and not what the vet says. 149 kitties have gone OTJ since 2008 with the help of FDMB. Everyone here knows what they are doing, I promise you! Many vets are terribly undereducated about feline diabetes. Just say, Ok, sure, that's what we'll do and then don't listen. Your vet is not informed about diabetes. Mine wasn't either. Luckily, I live in a pretty big city and was able to find one who does. I have no loyalty to my other vet. His advice and prescriptions did nothing to help my baby. Dr. Pierson and FDMB did - in 3 weeks to be exact.

Here is the research behind what FDMB is saying:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/view ... rt#p303065

I don't mean to sound all riled up, but man I hate it when vets say stuff that can be harmful, like you don't need to test at home.


I believe most people here start with only 1.0 unit of Lantus and give it 2x/day.

Good luck!
 
Hi Jenn,

I joined this forum only a month ago, and it's been a HUGE help for me! Before I forget, here is a link that was passed on to me about cat food; http://www.catinfo.org/ It explained to me why it's so important to get our cats off dry food to the best of our ability. And most wet cat foods that don't have gravy are naturally low in carbohydrates. The only other concern is that our cats shouldn't have too much organ meat (i.e. liver), or seafood cat foods (high in phosphrous which is hard on kitties with liver/kidney issues). That said, my cats love it and they've given up their dry food, so it's still on my menu for now!

My cat Schroeder is also 7, and he was diagnosed about 3 months ago. He's still not regulated, but I've just started BG home testing and will have more information to present to my vet in the near future. The FAQ's section on this board is also full of excellent information.

Once I armed myself with information and support, I felt way better. I even trained a neighbour to give injections so that I can still get away if I want to. My vet was open to getting all this info too, so I sent him the links to FMDB, the food write ups, and how to do home testing. He even asked me if I would come in to show his staff how to do it, so that they can pass it along to subsequent clients. Hopefully you have a vet who is willing to learn more.

Andrea.
 
149 kitties going OTJ, I assume that's just the Lantus forum.

The number is probably a great deal higher. Many folks who don't post on the Lantus forum have had cats go off insulin. Two of my own adopted FDs did and two that I'm working with through DCIN (Diabetic Cats in Need). I think a good number of the DCIN cats are off insulin, plus the PZI/ProZinc group and those of us who post only on the main forum.

Don't bother with the alpha trac, that's sort of a glorified Freestyle meter, made by the same company. Freestyle being a brand you can get anywhere. For cost purposes the WalMart Relion brand is fine. If you want a meter that sips the blood really fast and don't mind paying extra for strips, Accu-Check Aviva and Bayer Contour are ones that I like. But, I've used the One Touch Ultra, Freestyle, True Track, Relion and a few others I probably don't remember. They are all good in their own ways.

It is important to test before each shot and to get some mid shot numbers, especially in the beginning. It's the only way to keep your cat safe and away from hypoglycemia or ketones.

Also wouldn't use the script food. Wellness, EVO, Merrick or the store brands all are great. I use Fancy Feast, but the DCIN cats I'm working with (Bill and Porch2) both went off insulin on Friskies canned only. Taking away the dry will lower the BGs naturally. Humans need to stay away from sugar for their diabetes, it's the same for cats except the culprit is carbohydrates.

When I first started to treat Tucker differently than my vet wanted, it was upsetting, but now my vet has changed how she handles FD and although she still prescribes the DM food to her patients, she now advocates hometesting and prescribes Lantus instead of the Humulin N she started Tucker on.

The folks here on FDMB, they are in the trenches day in and day out working with their own FDs and helping other folks. I trust these folks more than I do my vet when it comes to figuring out FD.

One thing I would caution you on is the starting dose. It's best to start at 1U twice per day. If you start at 2U you may be overdosing your cat and you may miss your correct dose. You could have a cat that would do really well on 1Unit or less. Tucker is FD for 5 years and his dose is 0.75 U BID. Less than a unit. Other cats need more, but you start low, go slow and find the correct dose and give your cat's body time to learn how to utilize insulin properly.
 
Its is very difficult when a vet wants to go one way and your gut tells you to go another. Keep in mind that they make money selling you the DM and the Alpha track. Since those are what they know, those are what they are going to push. A human meter will often read a bit lower than the Alpha, but all the charts and advice around here are based on the human meters so there is no reason to buy a meter that is so expensive to use. Many, many kitties become regulated or into remission with the help of Fancy Feast, that statement is just false.

2U is a high place to start, the recommended dose start for lantus is usually 1U b.i.d. (twice a day). If you are switching to wet food from dry it might also be dangerous. Testing will be imperitive if you start at 2U.

Many people get their kitties into regulation or remission with the help of the board with no vet assistance other than the script for the insulin. It will definitely be easier to get the vet to work with you though. My vets were knowledgeable, but didn't share much information either, I think many of them don't really think to include us in the treatment course. Sometimes I found that forgiveness was easier than permission and informed them of changes I made after it was done. By the end I think my vet had learned some things from the protocol and hopefully your's will be willing to learn too.
 
I like to encourage people to partner with their vets in a diabetic cat's treatment, but I don't see anything in your vet's treatment plan to support. I agree with the others who wrote.

Wet food, and an RX diet is not needed (and can be inferior).

Human glucometer is fine, and the Relion is a good meters with inexpensive and accessible strips.

1U BID (or less) is the accepted starting dose.

What you do is your choice, of course. Your cat's diabetes is likely steroid induced and he may go into remission easily and quickly.
 
Your vet is dead wrong about the dry food, any dry food is bad because of the carb load. My own mother is a diabetic and she also has to watch her carbs as well as sugar in diet. One slice of bread can send her sky high. My original FD kitty Muse was started on DM canned out of then 9 cats not a single one of them would touch that junk. It reeks and doesn't even look fit to eat. It was originally formulated when they believed that fiber was the way to control diabetes in cats.

Max went OTJ in less than 3 weeks on simply a diet change and a small amount of insulin and he eats just plain old fashioned pate flavors of friskies or 9-lives, along with all the rest of my fluffy bunch. Not only is he OTJ, he is gaining weight and frisking through the house playing with my 2 seven month old kittens. If you like check out his SS in my sig.

I'm also in college right now to be a Vet Tech and I recently posted an article that I found at my college in one of the recent AVMA journals. Which also suggests that a diet high in protein & low in carbs as well as home testing it the best way to go for FD kitties. If you would like to read it you can find it here http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30016If you would like print it out and take it to you vet.

And while on the subject of Vets I love mine but he will readily admit that he knows next to nothing about diabetes, but he has been very willing to learn. I take what I have learned here and pass it along to him. To the extent that the other day when I took a little feral in to be spayed I was asked for "that food list I'm always carrying around." They wanted it so they could give it to their clients who not only may have a diabetic but just to give to owners of a new kitty. They saw my cats before the change in diet and they have seen them since and were wowed by the change in their over all health and coat condition and asked what I had done to "shine them up". It has been simply a changed in diet thats it. No extra vitamins, so prescription food, nada, Just ditched the dry and started giving them wet.

I don't use a fancy meter, just a little cheap Relion, works great. Takes a very little sample, easy to use and read even if I don't have my reading glasses handy. sips well. My only complaint is I hate the container the strips come in because one of my other kitties can open it and likes to help me test Max.

One thing to remember about dosing off the numbers at the vet's is that they are likely higher than when your cat is at home and relaxed in her own enviroment, so you could very likely over-dosing her. I know even my most laid-back easy going civie who adores his vettybean will shoot up 100 points at the vet's ( I know this because I tested him there once to show my vet how we do it here). Now Bert adores his vet, he will climb on his shoulder and give him lots of head butts and yet his BG jump that high. I can only tell you what I would do if it was Max. I would start out at 1u bid and test before each shot and try to catch random other ones at different times to see how the insulin was working.

But remember this is YOUR baby, you are the mommy and you have to do what feels right for your baby. Also remember you are the one footing the bills so in a way you are the boss of your Vet not the other way around. You can either follow the advice, or smile and nod and then do it your own way or look for a vet that you are more comfortable with, but ultimately it is your choice and your the one in control.

Mel & Max
 
The sad thing is I think I trust the people on here 100x more then I do the vet.. it just seems like a lot of you have had better results then the vet has. Although she did say she has had lots of cases with diabetes but said it would probably be a year before our cat was insulin free if at all. I brought with me a ton of printed out papers from this website and a list of canned food, and she didn't seem to care or want to listen. She said that a lot of people have different opinions on the web. Also she didn't seem to believe me about dry food being the main cause of diabetes but that was obesity in cats that was the cause. She doesn't seem very willing to learn at all. I'm going out to Wal_Mart tomorrow (I pray they are open on Thanksgiving!) to get the glucose meter and some fancy feast. I'm thinking about lowering his dose to 1 unit and feed him the fancy feast.. now how much should I feed him that a day? I want so badly to get this figured out and it was confusing the way she left it with us because she said since he grazes all day on dry food maybe give him 1/2 a can of wet food in the morning. The other 1/2 at night and then some of the DM dry food during the day for him to have. nailbite_smile

Also my husband gave him the first insulin shot and wasn't even sure if it went in because he didn't feel any resistance. We were a little worried we didn't do it right.. Have the glucose meter would come in real handy to know how his BG is!

Sorry I'm completely rambling now.. I really appreciate everyone taking their time to write back and tell me their stories and what work for you guys! Thank You!!
 
Not all vets are willing to listen. Mine was not.

Also, Sue is not and never has been obese and he got diabetes from eating DRY FOOD!

Walmart is open tomorrow!!! Don't worry! You'll get this all figured out!

If the vet isn't willing to listen, then just tell him/her the bare minimum. You don't have to tell her you lowered the dose if she/he is going to get mad. Remember YOU are PAYING the vet!!

Most cats get 4-6 oz of wet food/day.

Good luck!
 
Hi! I just want to second everything that the others have said. My cat, Stu, was diabetic for 4 years before I found this board. We shot insulin "blind", fed dry food, and went occasionally to the vet, who always recommended raising the dose because Stu's numbers were high when we had our vet visits. When I found this board Stu was getting 7 units of Lantus twice a day! His body was under a terrible strain because he was overdosed and his body was trying to get rid of all the excess insulin. I followed the advice of the wonderful people here and started Stu over at a low dose. We gradually worked up to 3 units twice a day and then his diabetes was improving so much that we started going down the dosing scale. Stu passed away this fall (not from diabetes). He was getting only 0.5 of a unit of insulin at the time of his passing. Because of this board my kitty had 9 really good months before he died. His coat looked wonderful. He played (at age 13) like he was a kitten again. I got great advice here on the FDMB, and you will too.

So please, nod and smile when your vet tells you what to do, and then ignore her "advice". Most vets know next to nothing about feline diabetes. You can "go it alone" with the help of the many knowledgeable people on this board and just check in with your vet once in a while to tell her what you are doing and why. The people here live with feline diabetes 24 hours a day. It is a tribute to the people on this board that my husband and I are adopting another diabetic kitty and are looking forward to his arrival this weekend!

Good luck! You have come to the right place. I, too, would suggest that you join the Lantus forum. There is a ton of good information there. You don't have to learn everything at once, so just jump in and don't panic.

Ella
 
Hi Jenn,

I have to say that your vet's advice is just soooo off-base and wrong. I found myself in the exact same place where you are now in August. I came for advice here (and also private consults with Dr. Pierson) and thank goodness I did - if I had listened to my vet, I could have seriously hurt my cat. First of all, once you switch to low-carb, high-protein food, the high glucose numbers will likely come down quite a bit on their own. For that and other reasons, going with just 1 unit twice per day is best. That way, you are gathering baseline information and will (eventually) know when to raise or lower the dose to regulate your cat.

383 at diagnosis is not horrible. It is quite possible that the pancreas can get itself back in shape via commitment to the diet change, and a short course of insulin. Whether this happens or not, you can get your cat healthy and happy by following the advice of the experts here.

You should give yourself a pat on the back for being so active and vigilant in caring for your cat. Congrats.



jmlapointe5 said:
Alrighty so we got back from the Vet a little while ago.. And we just did our first insulin shot..

Not too sure how I feel about the information the Vet gave us.. I'm kinda nervous cause she prescribed us 2 units of the Lanus 2 times a day, 12 hours apart. So did it at 6:30pm and will do it again at 6:30am.. She seemed kinda surprised we wanted to home test and said we didn't have too and that we should come back a week from today to see how it's working and if he needs more of the Lantus each time! Does that seem like a lot to give him??

We asked if we should test his blood before each shot and she said that wasn't necessary?
But she did tell us we could get the Glucose Meter and test him once a week, that we should get the Alpha-Trak Glucometer.. Does anyone have that one?

She told us not to do the Fancy Feast.. She said that the DM canned food and the DM dry food is the best. And didn't think our cat would ever come off insulin with the Fancy Feast.. I don't know what to do.. Do I do what I want and not to listen to her or what.. After telling her I only wanted a wet food diet for him, she sent us home with a bag of dry food anyways.. and didn't proceed to tell us to gradually get him off the dry food he's been eating! Also he doesn't seem to like the DM canned food that much.

We got his blood results back and his glucose is at 383. She did an urinalysis on him today and found no ketones..

Umm I think that's all the information I can think of right now.. What does everyone think of that?
 
PS~ I would bring back that dry food and get a refund. ALL DRY FOOD is bad for all cats' health, and particularly bad for diabetics.
 
I agree. Take back the dry food. You don't have to give a reason. Just tell your vet that your kitty doesn't like it. They are obligated to take it back.
 
Jenn,

I sent you a PM just click where it says one new message at the top of this page...I thought maybe a couple of pictures of my boy Max could help you see what just a regular canned diet can do for a cat. :-D

You know the old saying a picture is worth a thousand words. ;-)

Mel & Max
 
I echo what many others have already said. Most vets know very little about feline diabetes, and I suppose similar to human physicians, cannot possibly know everything about everything - hence the need for specialists. I can understand that a vet may be wary about listening to advice from teh internetz, but when a vet won't even bother to care about scientific research published in well-respected veterinary journals, well.... not good. All aspects of science evolve at a dizzying pace these days, and one must make efforts to keep up with it, or at least have the decency to admit when one doesn't have the knowledge to advise you properly. The old dry kibble formulas are from the stone ages; and cats are not dogs, but unique beasts with very different nutritional requirements. The change an appropriate diet can make in cats' health is simply astounding. Educate yourself, and do what you can to help your sugar kitty. We will be here to support you.

MJ&Donovan
 
jenn we have a community page where we just gab. i was just writing about my experience here august of 07
THANK GOD for this board.
there is no doubt that the feline diabetes information here is far superior to a majority of vets. this is likely becuase of cumulative information soley on diabetes for well over 10 years here with some very bright people and a whole lot of folks who stick around to pay it forward.
everyone comes here a mess. i was an utter basket case ready to put tom to sleep.
i could'nt have been more wrong. in 30 days he was otj for 2.5 years...and romping around in beautiful health. he was deathly ill when we arrived here. in only a week he showed amazing improvement. thank god i did'nt listen to my particular vet.
i run newbie kits which is a group donation of all the diabetic items to me and i put together kits for free for newbie's. i don't think you'll need one since you'll likely have one by now.
but that's the kind of giving we have here. if you do need something contact me via the link below. i will be happy to help.
things will get better.
and you will be a feline diabetes scholar in short order.
welcome.
lori
and tomtom
 
Its going to be a bit of a rollercoaster, but thats ok. You can handle it, look at all of us. Most of us, if not all of us started right there where you are now.

If you've been given the bottle of Lantus, don't fret - if you use it carefully it can last several months. My first and only bottle lasted about 2 1/2 months, and in the end we didn't stop using it because it wasn't working, we stopped using it because Yittle went into diet-controlled remission. He was on Vetsulin for awhile and wasn't getting good control of his sugar. We switched vets so we could switch insulins and got him on Lantus. He'd been on insulin for 6 months when he went into remission, so don't worry if it doesn't happen in a few weeks, it can happen after several months. And if your cat doesn't go into remission thats fine too because you CAN treat this. You can give them a long, high-quality life. Ultimately Yittle passed away due to cancer, but at the time of his death he was still in diet-controlled remission and didn't require insulin.

As everyone has said - moist food thats low in carbs is the way to go. Use whatever brand you're comfortable with. I had good results with Friskies, Whiskas and Fancy Feast. The key is to stick to the pates that don't have gravy (and keep your eye out for the odd flavor that doesn't have gravy but is high carb like Fancy Feast Elegant Medleys Souffles). You can use a human meter, we had great results with the Walmart sold Relion Micro meter. Meter cost about $12, and the testing strips were about $23 for 50 strips. As others have said you need to test before each shot at the minimum, and later on you'll want to learn how to do curves so you know whats going on and can change your dosage. Many of us will suggest dropping the insulin dose down to 1.0 units of Lantus twice a day if you eliminate all of the dry food from their diet. This is to prevent hypoglycemia. Its less of a serious problem to let it be a bit high for a week or two then for it to go too low at this point.

And if nobody else has said it (I may have missed the suggestion) you should go to your local drug store and pick up some Urine Ketone testing strips. They're sold for humans, they don't require a prescription, they're not that expensive. You'll want to test your cat's urine to keep track of ketone levels because high ketones are life-threatening. As for urine testing, put a spoonful or so of unused litter in a paper cup with some water and stir. Wait a few minutes and test the liquid with a strip. If the strip doesn't react (ie shows negative ketones) then you can test simply by dipping the stick in a puddle of fresh urine in the box. Figure out which end of the box your cat "aims" for and use the litter scoop to pull it back from the sides for about 1/2 inch. You're making a moat if you will. When you need to test you just stalk them until they pee, wait till they finish and dip the stick in the puddle and you're set. Others test that differently, but that method worked fine for me because Yittle always walked in his box, and peed right by one of the walls. After you test you can shovel some litter in the moat to cover it up and it won't smell or anything.

You may need to feed your cat more moist food then you're used to in the early days of treatment. Thats because moist is much lower in calorie then dry food is ounce for ounce, and also your cat can't properly digest the food because of the diabetes. At one point we were feeding Yittle up to 12x a day with each meal being about 1/4th of a can of Friskies or 1/2 a can of Fancy Feast (1.25 - 1.5oz). You can take moist food and mix it with a little water and then portion it out and freeze it. The frozen "pucks" as we call them around here can be put out when you are gone and will slowly defrost and stay fresh for awhile. Typically I found after an hour they could lick around the edges, by 2 hours they were completely defrosted and they stayed fresh for another 2 hours or so if nobody ate them. Once the cats blood sugar is under control you won't need to feed them so much, but you do want to make sure that provided they are not overweight now that they don't lose too much weight because that causes its own problems. Yittle went from 20 (too fat) to 13 (skeletal) back up to 15 (just right!). But he was a big cat, part Maine coon we think.

It can be overwhelming, and even here you'll see we all don't always agree on things. But when it comes down to it - this is probably the greatest number of success stories regarding feline diabeties anywhere in the world and we're all gathered in one big pile. The advice and belief the majority of people here hold in common simply wouldn't exist if we didn't have warm furry purring proof.
 
Hi Everyone.. And Happy Thanksgiving!!!

We are on our way to dinner now but we stop at Wal-Mart and they didn't have many strips in stock but we did get the Relion Confirm.. is this a good one? I left all my papers at home so I hope so. We also bought he strips but I couldn't find anything saying "sipping" action so I hope they are good. And we got the lancets, is 33g good?

We picked up a bunch of food, fancy feast classics (like turkey and chicken).

Can't wait to start all this and figure it out.
 
The lancets are super fine. sometimes they work fine; sometimes they don't make a big enough hole. You can always double poke-just poke again in the same place. Sometimes newbies need 25-26 gauge.

Don't forget to warm the ear first. And try the meter out on yourself first, so you know how it works before "wrestling" with kitty.
 
Yup. Warming the ear makes a HUGE difference. I tried a couple times without using the rice sock and my poor cat had to endure multiple newbie stabbings.... Then I got with the program and warmed his ear first. It fattens up the veins making them much easier to see, which resulted in nice big blood samples on the first try. Shroeder knows he gets his food next, so he waits patiently for me to get it right.... They're so forgiving. It's why I love him! :)
 
What exactly is a rice sock? Is it something you buy or make? Where can you get it?

I definitely need to try that, I feel horrible with the multiple pokes! If that doesn't work then I will get the smaller gauge lancets.

Bid is such a trooper thou.. looking at him you would never know he's sick :sad:
 
It's just a thin sock that you fill with rice and warm in the microwave for 20-30 seconds. I actually used a knee high pantyhose.
 
Thanks!!

And I finally got my spreadsheet up! Not too much information yet thou.. almost time to his nighttime shot.. and I think we are only going to do 1U.
 
It is probably time for you to post over on the Lantus support group site, now that you are testing and have your spreadsheet working. :mrgreen: They all use your insulin and will be able to give you great support and advice: viewforum.php?f=9 You can still post here, but you will give specific advice on Lantus there.
 
Just a note about warming the ear.

We do not have a microwave so the rice sock idea was out.

We did have an old glass tincture bottle... a small glass bottle... could also an old vanilla extract bottle etc. We warm it up and fill it with warm water... making sure it's not too hot. works purrfectly!
 
Thank you all so much for your advice! I too had my 8 year old male cat diagnosed recently but foolishly did not do my own research and it ended up costing me a lot of money in Animal ER care for the past 36 hours! So now, I am taking back control! Sent hubby to buy the glucose meter at Walmart - would share mine with my Cougar but my strips are too expensive - perhaps we'll share his! And am now heading off to Petsmart armed with the list of acceptable canned foods and will start all three of my cats on the canned food vs. just the diabetic cat on the DM from Purina at $1.45 per can! Later, I'll check in with the Lantax board to see what they have to say. THANK YOU ALL for your advice and encouragement cause I've been crying way to much instead of getting with the program and being pro-active! I'll definately be returning to this board often.
 
Hi CougarsMom, welcome to FDMB.

When you're ready you may also want to start a new thread on the Health board and say hi so that everyone gets to meet you :)

Have you started the Lantus insulin yet, and if so, what dose. Looking forward to hearing more about you and Cougar.

Bids Mommy - you can also use a warm wash cloth, put it in a plastic sandwich bag after you warm it with water if you don't want to get the ear wet. For the rice sock, white rice, I've been told lasts longer than brown.
 
Welcome to our FDMB Family... Glad you found us and you will be too. I remember my first contact with these wonderful people... I was a basket case. It was seven years ago now. Charlie was 12 and the love of my life.. This site taught me how to care for him... testing.. shooting insulin... changing foods... I was so nervous and scared. I learned inexpensive ways for all.. and he learned to love fancy feast (as did his little brother)... I had his love with me for six more years and at the tender age of 18, my little guy left for Rainbow Bridge from my arms (blood clot in his brain)... Healthy and playing still till the end.

This site gives us the support and information that we need to care for... and the information to "Take to ER" if needed... (Charlie only need ER once, August 5, 2009...1:00 a.m.)... deep sigh. We've talked members through emergencies, and we've prayed them through others. The prayers from FDMB lead to miracles!! I know as I am one.

Anyway, you've received excellent advise so far... and will I'm sure be able to teach your vet.. I know I found a new one as the first never remembered Charlie's name and called him Smokey (he was a Russian Blue). He also laughed at me testing him, and not buying his expensive 'canned junk'... The vet that came up with the formula is a member of FDMB now and she won't use it... Now I'll leave you with the poem I wrote regarding finding this wonderful site. (I tend to be too wordy sometimes) WELCOME to FDMB

Finding FDMB
© 2004 By Carol Notermann

Alone I heard the words I’d feared, alone and terrified.
Did no one know or understand, I cursed the tears I cried.
I’ll beat this thing, I’ll prove them wrong for he is my best friend
There has to be some help somewhere, this cannot be the end.

The vet had been so cavalier, explaining choices to be made.
I’d heard his words, but in my brain, too few of them had stayed.
I ran to my computer, typed in the word I’d heard
As I hit “search” I trembled, for I hated that darn word.

The list popped up, and there I saw, that I was not alone.
I clicked on one, and read the text, but those words too had flown.
Then next I clicked, a message board, with others just like me.
I typed the words, “I’m just so scared, I’m crying and can’t see.”

Within a minute, maybe two, I was welcomed with a (hug).
They said to simply take a breath, my heart, it felt a tug.
For here were others just like me, they seemed to understand.
No one said to PTS, they said they’d lend a hand.

Thus guided by the “experts” that had no vet degree
I learned about this thing I feared, they took each step with me.
They told me of the blood tests, how to poke his little ears.
I learned of its importance, to shoot and have no fears.

I learned to simply trust my “gut”, and that I knew my cat.
I learned to treat a “hypo”, my testing spotted that.
I’ve cried tears of joy with others, and also tears of pain.
We are a world-wide family, we cheer each others gain.

And now, just four months later, my guy is lying at my feet,
Our lives are back to “normal”, and the path was not too steep.
For with the help of all my friends here on FDMB
I know that I am not alone, and that’s enough for me.
 
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