It looks like 2u not enough, and 2.25u too much - what to do

[Bryan & Princess]

Been a frustrating battle so far with Diabetes and Insulin, we started with Vetsulin then switched to Lantus Pens.

As I increased dosages from .5u up to 2.5u then back down to 2.25u where I saw some nice double digits and thought I was on the right track, but then after a PMPS I saw a 39 at +6, so I lowered the dose to 2u but now seeing some 400's and numbers are all over from 107 - 506.

I have done one Ketone test a week and 1/2 ago and it was negative, been trying to get another.

I am not sure why it so hard to find a dosage for Princess and looking for any thoughts, I personally feel I should try 2.25 again. Then again earlier at .5u was not toooo bad... maybe I should just stop insulin, wait a few days and then start at .5u again

Money is EXTREMELY TIGHT so I am trying to avoid going back to the vet.

Thanks, Bryan

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Here is the link to your last post here. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...reen-and-now-in-a-bounce.200319/#post-2231229 Those links are very helpful for us trying to give suggestions, as it gives us some history.

A cat's insulin needs can can change over time. My Neko was a bit extreme, but her purrfct dose went from 8.75 units down to 0.75 units, back up to 7.0 and slowly back down to 0.25 units. That was over the space of almost five years.

I would agree that the reduction seems to have failed and Princess needs to go back up to 2.25 units. Make sure you can monitor closely, as that dose for her to the 30's just 5 night ago. It's not uncommon to have to dance around a dose for a while.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Hi. I think this is my first time on one of your condos. It took me a year for Max to stop bouncing around. I’m not suggesting it will be the same for Princess but rather that what you are experiencing is common. You don’t need to see your vet about dosing. Stick with the protocol, ask questions whenever you have them, and folks on this forum will help guide you. It does get frustrating at times so vent here whenever you find a need.

 

[Sue and Luci]

Been a frustrating battle so far with Diabetes and Insulin, we started with Vetsulin then switched to Lantus Pens.

As I increased dosages from .5u up to 2.5u then back down to 2.25u where I saw some nice double digits and thought I was on the right track, but then after a PMPS I saw a 39 at +6, so I lowered the dose to 2u but now seeing some 400's and numbers are all over from 107 - 506.

I have done one Ketone test a week and 1/2 ago and it was negative, been trying to get another.

I am not sure why it so hard to find a dosage for Princess and looking for any thoughts, I personally feel I should try 2.25 again. Then again earlier at .5u was not toooo bad... maybe I should just stop insulin, wait a few days and then start at .5u again

Money is EXTREMELY TIGHT so I am trying to avoid going back to the vet.

Thanks, Bryan

Trust this forum - your vet can't help with fine dosing for Princess - unless he's a specialist on all things endocrine...best bet - read the Stickies...follow the advice you find here...be patient...takes time for Lantus to work.

 

[beggargirl]

Good luck with princess!

My cat is doing the same dang thing at the moment; 2.25 was doing good and then brought her down really low. Now at 2 we are running really high a bunch of days in a row.

 

[Bryan & Princess]

Well I am seriously thinking about going back to .5u, When I look at .5u on my spreadsheet things were not that bad. When comparing Princesses spreadsheet to this person's TJ's Spreadsheet who also switched their cat from Vetsulin to Lantus (not that I think that factors much) she held out and got sensibile numbers, I am thinking I never gave .5u long enough chance and I SHOULD GO BACK TO .5u - Here is TJ's spreadsheet to compare with mine. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12PUefrFmnK2xoivJSkmDGbQ7CPS3Q4y9diWfdsMX7n8/edit#gid=0

 

[Sue and Luci]

Well I am seriously thinking about going back to .5u, When I look at .5u on my spreadsheet things were not that bad. When comparing Princesses spreadsheet to this person's TJ's Spreadsheet who also switched their cat from Vetsulin to Lantus (not that I think that factors much) she held out and got sensibile numbers, I am thinking I never gave .5u long enough chance and I SHOULD GO BACK TO .5u - Here is TJ's spreadsheet to compare with mine. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12PUefrFmnK2xoivJSkmDGbQ7CPS3Q4y9diWfdsMX7n8/edit#gid=0

First you shouldn't compare your cats numbers to anyone else's numbers - an important thing to remember - Every Cat Is Different.

Lantus takes time. Changing back to .5 is a big drop from your current dose. Have you read the Stickies (at the top) to see how dosing changes can affect your cat?

Please take the time to read and learn what's best for your cat...from what I can see on your SS, I'd be asking about an increase...

I'm hoping some of the experts will help you with dosing advice/information.

@Bobbie And Bubba, @Jill & Alex (GA) - can someone with experience please help with dosing question?

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

I would agree that the reduction seems to have failed and Princess needs to go back up to 2.25 units. Make sure you can monitor closely, as that dose for her to the 30's just 5 night ago. It's not uncommon to have to dance around a dose for a while.

I agree with this comment Wendy made on Saturday. It appears Princess needs more insulin... not less.

I think dropping the dose back to 0.5u BID would be a big mistake. We've seen people do this before. It ends up being a huge waste of time, effort, and insulin... not to mention placing kitty at a greatly increased risk of developing ketones. The caregiver ends up surpassing the current dose weeks later because glucose toxicity sets in. All in all, it ends up to be a major set back.

That said, if you decide to go against dosing advice offered, please test for ketones daily. If Princess shows as little as "trace" ketones see your vet and/or report the development here on the forum. Advice offered will change in an effort to rid kitty's body of ketones while quickly getting back on track with insulin.

Just my thoughts...

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Comparing cats is not productive. And a cat's insulin needs can change over time, we only look at the last couple of weeks of information when looking at how to dose. If you want to look at Vetsulin to Lantus, my kitty Neko was on Caninsulin (rebranded to Vetsulin in the US), and was at 5 units Caninsulin. I made the mistake of starting Lantus at 1 unit, and ended up going up to 8.75 units Lantus before she started earning reductions. Having said this, that story has no relevance to Princess. My cat had two high dose conditions. ECID. Princess needs an increase.

Since you are following TR, please make sure to gather some night time cycle tests other than the preshot, each and every night. Many, perhaps most, cats go lower at night. It is those lows that tell us how we should be dosing. Even a +2 or before bed test is helpful.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Well I am seriously thinking about going back to .5u, When I look at .5u on my spreadsheet things were not that bad. When comparing Princesses spreadsheet to this person's TJ's Spreadsheet who also switched their cat from Vetsulin to Lantus (not that I think that factors much) she held out and got sensibile numbers, I am thinking I never gave .5u long enough chance and I SHOULD GO BACK TO .5u - Here is TJ's spreadsheet to compare with mine. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12PUefrFmnK2xoivJSkmDGbQ7CPS3Q4y9diWfdsMX7n8/edit#gid=0

Oh, Bryan, please don't do that. If 2 units isn't bringing her numbers down, how do you expect .5 to help her? Please think twice as if she develops ketones your cost will not decrease but will increase and she will be set back in this diabetic dance.

Like others have said, it's not uncommon to dance around the same dose a few times. What was not enough last week can be too much this week and visa versa.

Try to stick with the protocol and remember this is not a sprint race; it's a marathon. Patience Grasshopper.