Ideas for Goldie

[Goldie]

Hi Folks, this is my first post. I have a 14 yr old cat in bad shape. She has lost a lot of weight and weighs around 7lbs. Her coat is rough and she can still walk but poorly because of hind leg weakness. This week, the vet did a geriatric test series and T4 test. Her bg was 264 and the normal range was 71-159. The vet doesn't think it's diabetes because the cats he sees with serious diabetes issues have a bg > 300. The T4 test returned normal results. The vet seems to be at a loss. Any ideas what I can do next?

 

[Rob & Harley (GA)]

Hi & welcome,

264 is a diabetic number. I think normal is between 60 & 120.

There is alot of information you will be getting very soon from more experienced people here about food, home testing, etc.

Welcome aboard.

 

[tuckers mom]

Did your vet check urine to see if there was sugar?

Normally I don't go for fructosamine tests but in this case, I'd ask your vet to run one. This will show average blood sugar values over about a three week period. This will prove or disprove whether you have a diabetic kitty. HyperT - the kitty would have a skinny back end if really bad, not weak so having a normal T4 is not suprising. However for a senior kitty I'd want to know what the value was, if it was high end of normal that is considered HyperT in senior kitties. A more specific test, a freeT4 (fT4) would be recommended.

Hind leg weakness could be neuropathy associated with diabetes.

Are there other symptoms such as drinking more water, peeing more, being hungry?

 

[LynnLee + Mousie]

hi and welcome. yes, the 264 is high but to be honest, not high compared to most of our cats when they are diagnosed. most are 400+ at diagnosis sooooooooooooo that makes me wonder if there's something else going on that might be elevating it. any infections by chance? pain? tooth concerns? pain, stress, infection are all things that can elevate glucose levels.

also, steroids can raises BG (glucose) levels. has there been any of those given recently?

and next, perhaps you may have a borderline diabetic on your hands. what do you feed currently? maybe a diet change to a lower carbohydrate food can bring that BG level down some, closer to normal

 

[Goldie]

I have been feeding Goldie raw meat since I suspected diabetes (about a week now). Unfortunately I didn't home-test the BG until several days after I started the new diet. Do you think the BG would fall after just a few days of the new diet? No other things wrong with her that I know of.

 

[Karen & Smokey(GA)]

Raw meat alone is not complete nutrition for a cat.

Short term OK....but not long term.

 

[Jean and Megan]

Karen is right that raw meat alone is not a complete diet and not suitable for long-term use. You can feed a raw diet - many people here do - but it isn't pure raw meat. If you want more information, it's available. Recipes and everything.

Yes, it is quite possible for a diet change to bring BG levels down quite a lot very quickly. In your case, a diet change might be enough to bring your kitty's numbers down into a normal range, since they weren't very high to begin with. Also, the elevated number at the vet's might have some "vet stress" in it. A test taken at home wouldn't have the "stress" addition, so it is a truer measure of the real BG of most kitties. (Some don't get a rise from vet stress, but a lot do.)

 

[Nicole & Baby]

Diet change typically brings BG #s down almost immediately - but have heard about 3 days is typical. My experience was immediate after removing dry food.
Quick question though - when you say that Raw alone is not sufficient - that suprises me - because Nature's Variety seems good. I do feed Natures Variety Rabbit & Wellness - sometimes other High Protein/Low Carb, but I would LOVE for them both to be on Raw only - but one isnt interested & the other is only interested in a bite here & there.

 

[Goldie]

Thanks for the help everyone. This vet is not going to provide insulin because they feel the numbers are too low already. So, I guess that leaves me with diet. I found the canned food statistic lists and they were very helpful. I found the 9-lives Flaked Tuna which seems to have very good protein/carb numbers. Does this sounds like a reasonably good food for her new diet?

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

You don't want to have a fish only diet. We recommend feeding fish only once a week or so. The reasons: It has high levels of phosphorous and mercury. It can cause allergies in some cats. Sometimes cats get hooked on fish and only want to eat it, to the exclusion of any other type of food.

So go back to Janet and Binky's charts. Look at Fancy Feast or Friskies if money is an issue. You want a food with less than 10% carbs. If money is not an issue, check out Wellness. Pick some chicken and turkey and beef varieties and see what Goldie will eat. If she is resistant, come back. We have lots of tips for reluctant eaters.

Sorry this is so complicated. It was a steep learning curve for all of us at the beginning, but you will get it. Just remember to breathe and ask lots of questions.

 

[Jean and Megan]

...
Quick question though - when you say that Raw alone is not sufficient - that suprises me - because Nature's Variety seems good. ...

Nature's Variety is a complete diet. When we said raw alone isn't sufficient, we meant just raw chicken or beef or whatever, as you would buy it from the butcher, with no vitamins or minerals or anything added to it. Nature's Variety has had all that added (at least, as far as I know - I don't happen to feed raw), so it would be fine.

 

[Karen & Smokey(GA)]

Diet change typically brings BG #s down almost immediately - but have heard about 3 days is typical. My experience was immediate after removing dry food.
Quick question though - when you say that Raw alone is not sufficient - that suprises me - because Nature's Variety seems good. I do feed Natures Variety Rabbit & Wellness - sometimes other High Protein/Low Carb, but I would LOVE for them both to be on Raw only - but one isnt interested & the other is only interested in a bite here & there.

Natures Variety has added vitamins, ground up bone for calcium, and lots of other supplemental stuff.
It's not just plain raw meat.

If you are feeding Natures Variety, OK. But if feeding just 'raw meat' from the grocer, not OK.

 

[Goldie]

Thanks for the fish advice. Back to the grocers...

 

[Terri and Lucy]

Welcome Goldie

Hi Goldie,

Welcome to FDMB. A couple of issues. Was the test the vet did a fructosamine (was it sent out for the results?) or did they give you an immediate test result? If it was a fructosamine, 264 is not a diabetic number. If it was done with a plain old blood stick, you need to analyze the number is relation to how long it had been since your cat ate. A typical glucose curve looks like a big U with insulin and food being at the top left, dropping and then going back up for about 12 hours until it is time to feed again (food stimulates insulin release in a non-diabetic cat).

If you vet didn't run the fructosamine, I'd visit another vet and get one done. It's the best way to make the correct diagnosis.

(Sorry this is a new thread--thought I was responding to the original).

 

[Gia and Quirk]

Feline nutrition information that is reliable is pretty hard to find. The best source is here http://www.catinfo.org/ . You'll get the facts on why raw meat alone isn't a balanced diet, there's a recipe for making raw food at home, this is common sense information written in plain language, which is what makes this site the most valuable cat resource on the web.

Diet paired with a short course of insulin is the fast track to regulation and, often, remission. If your vet won't give you insulin at that number you should interview some other vets. If you let us know what city is closest to you we may have experience with vets in your area.

You are on the right track, you just need to learn a bit more, so hit our FAQs and come back to ask questions. Goldie is lucky to have you.

 

[Venita]

Re: Welcome Goldie

(Sorry this is a new thread--thought I was responding to the original).

One of the abilities of the new Board is to merge topics. So I was able to put what was a new thread into the one you meant to respond to. Pretty cool that I didn't mess it up.

 

[Goldie]

Re: Welcome Goldie

Hi Goldie,

Welcome to FDMB. A couple of issues. Was the test the vet did a fructosamine (was it sent out for the results?) or did they give you an immediate test result? If it was a fructosamine, 264 is not a diabetic number. If it was done with a plain old blood stick, you need to analyze the number is relation to how long it had been since your cat ate. A typical glucose curve looks like a big U with insulin and food being at the top left, dropping and then going back up for about 12 hours until it is time to feed again (food stimulates insulin release in a non-diabetic cat).

If you vet didn't run the fructosamine, I'd visit another vet and get one done. It's the best way to make the correct diagnosis.

(Sorry this is a new thread--thought I was responding to the original).

I didn't see them do the test, but it was not a fructosamine test. I know this because the vet suggested doing this after the first 2 tests were inconclusive. Thank you for the reply.

 

[Goldie]

Feline nutrition information that is reliable is pretty hard to find. The best source is here http://www.catinfo.org/ . You'll get the facts on why raw meat alone isn't a balanced diet, there's a recipe for making raw food at home, this is common sense information written in plain language, which is what makes this site the most valuable cat resource on the web.

Diet paired with a short course of insulin is the fast track to regulation and, often, remission. If your vet won't give you insulin at that number you should interview some other vets. If you let us know what city is closest to you we may have experience with vets in your area.

You are on the right track, you just need to learn a bit more, so hit our FAQs and come back to ask questions. Goldie is lucky to have you.

Thanks for the reply. I live near Enfield CT.

 

[Victoria & Sundance]

Welcome... It is possible that the BG was much higher before you changed food. You seem very pro-active so you'll like this forum.


I would, like the others, suggest a fructosamine test... and if you can get yourself a human glucometer at a pharmacy near you, you can learn to home test in order to see if the BG continues to lower (if in fact it has done so). Also, you'll need that experience if/when you begin to give insulin.


Please read read read and ask ask ask... Someone here will be able to point you in the right direction or help you directly.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

 

[Lisa dvm]

264 is a diabetic number.

Hi Rob,

This is not necessarily true and this thought has led many vets to start treating non-diabetic cats with insulin before more extensive testing is done to make sure that they really are dealing with a diabetic patient.

A 264 could simply be stress hyperglycemia.

 

[Carolyn and Spot]

Hi Folks, this is my first post. I have a 14 yr old cat in bad shape. She has lost a lot of weight and weighs around 7lbs. Her coat is rough and she can still walk but poorly because of hind leg weakness. This week, the vet did a geriatric test series and T4 test. Her bg was 264 and the normal range was 71-159. The vet doesn't think it's diabetes because the cats he sees with serious diabetes issues have a bg > 300. The T4 test returned normal results. The vet seems to be at a loss. Any ideas what I can do next?

Hi there,
One thing that stands out to me is the relatively low result number.. if it was for GLUCOSE.. not if it was a fructosamine. 264 would be considered a diabetic number if you went and tested her right this minute in your own home and that was your reading. However, if that was a glucose test done at the vet, it's quite possible it's a pain or stress or both result.

Were any other results out of the norm? How are her teeth? Mouth pain can cause a cat to stop cleaning and eating properly as well which can lead to weakness and not caring for herself.

Rough coat is definitely a sign of diabetes, but generally that goes hand in hand with dandruff. This is caused by body dehydration. Rough coat can also be attributable to other problems which brings me to my advice:

1. one cheap thing to do would be to test her ear at home with a human diabetic kit and see what you get. check the Links forum for a hometesting help links post.. if she is anything over 100-120, it's possible that she is diabetic and a fructosamine should be run to confirm, HOWEVER.. pain and infection can both cause numbers to run high
2. get an xray panel, complete with a lateral view. rear leg weakness can be due to arthritis, which is quite common in 14 year olds. If she is in pain, she may just have stopped bathing and have a lost appetite, and this is very important to find out because she will need pain management. Cats are terrific at concealing pain, so don't be surprised if she is arthritic or has spondylosis.

Please let us know what you find out.. (((hugs)))

 

[Terri and Lucy]

Re: Welcome Goldie

I didn't see them do the test, but it was not a fructosamine test. I know this because the vet suggested doing this after the first 2 tests were inconclusive. Thank you for the reply.

Before you "treat" diabetes, you need to make sure you have the correct diagnosis. Please consider finding a vet who will run a fructosamine for you, if there are other vets in your community. A 264 blood glucose level could be the result of stress, dental plaque, a brewing infection, etc.