i have a problem...glucose too low

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OK 55 is good, give her a teaspoon of regular food and test in another 20 minutes.

Did you give hers some of the gravy from the gourmet gold in the end??
 
How much gravy?

Sara, to answer your question about why is this happening. Looks like Tacka was clearing a bounce when they clear a bounce they can gather quite a lot of speed and drop like you have just seen.
By the way she has definitely earned that reduction! Bet you are glad you decided to test before shooting, contrary to the vets recommendations.
On the protocols and dosing method we use we would normally reduce by 0.25 u

We need to now wait for her numbers to come up to be shootable, but we need to make sure that the numbers are not influenced by the high carb food(so we wait at least2 hours)
Options
  • wait until numbers are up and shoot, but then you will be ofschedule by 2 to 3 hours
  • if she comes up enough by +6 is to shoot two 18 hour cycles, back to back, that way you don't get of schedule and she is getting some insulin,that way she is not without insulin for too long and it will also drain the depot a little
  • skip altogether this will drain the depot, but might see her run high.
I would like to get some more experienced people to comment on the dose, but it may take a while as they a lot of them are located in the us and are sleeping right now.
 
Hi sara,

I have posted a thread on the lantus forum so hopefully we will get some feedback soon.
Waiting for that next test.

If she drops below 50 again, another couple of teaspoons of gravy.

Paws crossed that it won't be necessary.
 
What it means that she was clearing a bounce?
She ate about two teaspoons of goutmet gold and i gave her little drop of honey. Im definitely glad that i was not following vets advice. Which option is the best?
Btw +40min 3.5mmol/l (63) how long i must measure it on 20 min?
 
+12 34 HC and drop of honey
+12.3 56 LC
+12.6 63 No food
next test at +13

When a diabetic cat gets into numbers that are lower than their body is used to the liver 'panics' and dumps a load of glucose and counter regulatory hormones into the system to counteract the perceived low. This results in the blood sugar shooting up it can stay up for upto 6 cycles (but some kitties clear the bounce sooner)
When they start to clear the bounce the sugars can start to drop and some cats can gather quite a lot of downward momentum, when we see a bounce breaking we want to watch, sometimes feeding a little LC when we see them dropping fast can slow the downward trend and get them level out (surf)
 
mucacopatarica said:
Which option is the best?
Click to expand...

We will need to see what her blood glucose dose.

Getting of schedule by 3 or 4 hours can be a pain to get back to your shot time, been there, done that and it took a more thatn a week to get back on schedule.
I would prefer the 18 hours if she is shootable, don't like to see a kitty in high numbers unnecessarily, But we need to make sure she is up enough by then.
 
is it possible that Tačkas high measurements was not the result of low dose but she experienced this bounce because of insuline overdose?
 
Gill & George said:
We will need to see what her blood glucose dose.

Getting of schedule by 3 or 4 hours can be a pain to get back to your shot time, been there, done that and it took a more thatn a week to get back on schedule.
I would prefer the 18 hours if she is shootable, don't like to see a kitty in high numbers unnecessarily, But we need to make sure she is up enough by then.
Click to expand...

Well if we gets of schedule by 4 hours that means i give her insulin dose in the middle of the night and i dont sleep at all. 18 hours seems friendlier for me and for her (if i can rest can be more focussed on management of her diabetes.
 
+12 1.9 (34) test: 2.0 (36) HC (gourmet gold+drop of honey)
+12.20 3.1 (55) LC or no C (raw chicken-her regular food)
+12.40 3.5 (63)
+13.10 4.0 (72)
+13.40 4.0 (72)
 
mucacopatarica said:
is it possible that Tačkas high measurements was not the result of low dose but she experienced this bounce because of insuline overdose?
Click to expand...
Not because of insulin over dose.

  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
The nice numbers that she got into on the 4/22 may have resulted in the higher numbers you saw yesterday. It is quite normal for kitties to bounce in the beginning, some bounce more than others.
 
i thougt that higher numbers yesterday was result of reduced dose the day before (1,5 units in the evening) Its fascinating that till now for 3 months it was ok. We slowly reduced glucose...
 
If you are going to aim for an 18 hour cycle, then no food after +16, so you can be sure that the test at +16 is not food influence.

Looks like she is surfing now.
Get another test at +14 (2 hours after the HC) just to be sure if she is still up, if she is still up then feed as normal if she needs her breakfast.

if she is still in the 70's then test in one hour.

If you can get a test in at +15.5 so we can see where she is at, and to have some time to get advice. That would be great.

It's good that her BG is moving downward, the aim in tight regulation is BG in the normal range for as much of the day as possible, this allows the healing process of the pancreas and the regeneration of the beta cells which produce the cat's insulin, this is what eventually, if we are lucky, can get them into remission. :D
Normal range for cat's being 50-80 (100)
 
+12 1.9 (34) test: 2.0 (36) HC (gourmet gold+drop of honey)
+12.20 3.1 (55) LC or no C (raw chicken-her regular food)
+12.40 3.5 (63)
+13.10 4.0 (72)
+13.40 4.0 (72)
+14.00 4.7 (84)

we are going up. i have time all day to do measurments and what is necessary. Maybe i will sleep a little through day but my BF will be awake...
What should i do next? test in at +15?
 
yes testing in an hours time at +15/ +15.5 would be fine, and feed her her lunch if you usually do that, as she won't be able to eat anything between +16 and +18
If numbers are steady or rising then you would be ok to leave for a couple of hours, but if it were me I'd probably continue to test hourly if I was in the house and available. Try and get some rest.

Remember as your shot time is going to be +18 no food from +16 (I got confused above with the times)

get a test done @ +17.5 and post the results so we can see what to do about the dose, or whether it would be advisable to skip altogether.
 
Sorry, Sara, I was away from home all evening and just checked in before going to bed. You and Tacka have been having quite a time! It looks to me like it's possible that her pancreas is healing and may be trying to produce its own insulin again. It's too early to say for sure, but you may be going down the dosing scale faster than you might have expected. You are doing a wonderful job watching over her and keeping her safe, but we need to make sure you get some rest, too.

If you do the 18 hour schedule, you shoot at +18, then at 18 hours after that, and that should put you back on schedule. So if your normal shot time is 6:00am, you'd shoot the next shot at midnight, then the next at 6pm the next day, which would get you back on schedule. Does that make sense to you? The skipping option isn't a bad idea, either, especially if she doesn't come up a lot with her BG.

It looks like Gill has a good grasp on the situation. There should be several of our East Coast US people around at your +17.5, so if you post, as Gill suggested, asking for dosing help, you should get some more input. If you can, I would suggest starting a new thread on the Lantus page at that time, with a subject line like this: "4/24 Tacka +17.5 ###(whatever her BG is). Shoot or skip?" If you can put a link to this thread in the new one, people can go back and refer to it. We prefer that people do a new thread each day, with the link to the previous one in it, because it gets too hard to scroll through all the posts on a thread that goes for several days.
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
Sorry, Sara, I was away from home all evening and just checked in before going to bed. You and Tacka have been having quite a time! It looks to me like it's possible that her pancreas is healing and may be trying to produce its own insulin again. It's too early to say for sure, but you may be going down the dosing scale faster than you might have expected. You are doing a wonderful job watching over her and keeping her safe, but we need to make sure you get some rest, too.

If you do the 18 hour schedule, you shoot at +18, then at 18 hours after that, and that should put you back on schedule. So if your normal shot time is 6:00am, you'd shoot the next shot at midnight, then the next at 6pm the next day, which would get you back on schedule. Does that make sense to you? The skipping option isn't a bad idea, either, especially if she doesn't come up a lot with her BG.

It looks like Gill has a good grasp on the situation. There should be several of our East Coast US people around at your +17.5, so if you post, as Gill suggested, asking for dosing help, you should get some more input. If you can, I would suggest starting a new thread on the Lantus page at that time, with a subject line like this: "4/24 Tacka +17.5 ###(whatever her BG is). Shoot or skip?" If you can put a link to this thread in the new one, people can go back and refer to it. We prefer that people do a new thread each day, with the link to the previous one in it, because it gets too hard to scroll through all the posts on a thread that goes for several days.
Click to expand...

Hi Tricia Cinco (GA) & Harve. No biggy if you werent here i was in good hands. Thanks for new tips. I will start a new thead on the Lantus page at +17.5 and we will see what to do. Thank you-you are the best!:kiss:
 
+12 1.9 (34) test: 2.0 (36) HC (gourmet gold+drop of honey)
+12.20 3.1 (55) LC or no C (raw chicken-her regular food)
+12.40 3.5 (63)
+13.10 4.0 (72)
+13.40 4.0 (72)
+14.00 4.7 (84)
+15.20 6.4 (115)
i was wrong for 20 minutes ( in panic at start i lost these 20 min)
 
mucacopatarica said:
Tačka eats chicken every day (chicken breast, chicken legs-just meat from legs :D ). This is her main food. :D i give her raw meat (i just boild it till crust and than cut it up)
Click to expand...
Hi Sara, if Tacka is eating a lot of chicken meat do be aware that it's not a complete food. (In the wild a cat would eat all (or most) of it's prey, including bones and organs and skin, etc). Feeding up to 20% of the diet as plain meat is fine though. :)
.
 
+12 1.9 (34) test: 2.0 (36) HC (gourmet gold+drop of honey)
+12.20 3.1 (55) LC or no C (raw chicken-her regular food)
+12.40 3.5 (63)
+13.10 4.0 (72)
+13.40 4.0 (72)
+14.00 4.7 (84)
+15.20 6.4 (115)
+16.30 (30 means minutes) 8,7 mmol/l (156mg/dl)

Tacka is eating a lot of chicken meat but i m giving her organs and a little bit fatter meat as well. I give her even powder od eggshells which are replacing bones. At the evening she gets canned food.
 
+12 1.9 (34) test: 2.0 (36) HC (gourmet gold+drop of honey)
+12.20 3.1 (55) LC or no C (raw chicken-her regular food)
+12.40 3.5 (63)
+13.10 4.0 (72)
+13.40 4.0 (72)
+14.00 4.7 (84)
+15.20 6.4 (115)
+16.30 8,7 mmol/l (156mg/dl)
+17.30 11.00 mmol/l (198mg/dl)
 
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