Help, possible hypo w/Alphatrak.

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dsmithkma

Member Since 2013
Hi-

I thought I'd start a new thread. I had one at viewtopic.php?f=28&t=97169 dealing with Kitten not eating.

He's done better today...we're up to 4.2 oz. since 6:30 AM (cst). Brief background: He was diagnosed on 6/5/13. Had his first curve on 6/7. They gave him one unit Lantis. When I picked him up at the vet, they said to give him 1/2 unit 2X day. He's been very inappetant since then, but slowly eating more.

I had an AlphaTrak, which I dropped yesterday. I ordered a replacement AlphaTrak 2.

I've been feeding him small meals today. However, I have NOT given any Lantis.

The meter just came, I set it up and tested Kitten. His BG was 245. He had eaten apprx. 1 oz. of Fancy Feast sole cod shrimp about a half hour prior to testing.

Is this a decent number?
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

We use reference ranges for cats on human glucometers; leave your numbers alone, please!

Adjusted for AlphaTrak

< 70 mg/dL = headed to hypo if not already there; implement hypo protocol. Also, dose decrease for long term diabetic

< 80 mg/dL = caution, could be heading to hypo if early after shot. Dose decrease for diabetics < 1year duration

80 - 160 mg/dL = well controlled

210/230/270/310 mg/dL = depending on your data source, this is the renal threshold where glucose starts spilling into the urine.
At these levels, you may wish to test for urine or blood ketones. If your cat has ever had diabetic ketoacidosis, you may want the pricier blood ketone meter to get the most accurate measurement you can
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

BJM said:
We use reference ranges for cats on human glucometers; leave your numbers alone, please!

Adjusted for AlphaTrak

< 70 mg/dL = headed to hypo if not already there; implement hypo protocol. Also, dose decrease for long term diabetic

< 80 mg/dL = caution, could be heading to hypo if early after shot. Dose decrease for diabetics < 1year duration

80 - 160 mg/dL = well controlled

210/230/270/310 mg/dL = depending on your data source, this is the renal threshold where glucose starts spilling into the urine.
At these levels, you may wish to test for urine or blood ketones. If your cat has ever had diabetic ketoacidosis, you may want the pricier blood ketone meter to get the most accurate measurement you can
Click to expand...

Still very new at all this.

When you say "leave my numbers alone", do you mean, I should give exactly what the ALpha Trak 2 reads?

My Alpha Trak 2 manual says greater than 250 is considered high.
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

Yes. Do not adjust the values; leave them alone.

It may be helpful if you go back into your signature, highlight the line with your meter, and increase the font size so it pops out a bit and catches the eye.
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

BJM said:
Yes. Do not adjust/leave them alone.
Click to expand...

OK. Thanks!


My Alpha Trak 2 manual says greater than 250 is considered high. So is his reading of 245, a half hour after a midday snack decent? Granted it's only one reading today.
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

Yes, it's a decent number. Not the best but ok, especially since we know it is higher with the food influence.

I have put all these numbers in terms of what you will see with testing on the alphatrak. Numbers in parentheses are for human meters.

Renal Threshold 260-310 (230-280) depending on what source you consult. A number above the renal threshold means that excess glucose is being dumped into the urine.

Normal non-diabetic cat (or food controlled diabetic like my Wink) 70-150 (40-120)

Regulated 130 210 (100-180)

Any number above 330 (300), you should be testing for ketones.

Wikipedia is one of my sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_in_cats
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

Deb & Wink said:
Yes, it's a decent number. Not the best but ok, especially since we know it is higher with the food influence.

I have put all these numbers in terms of what you will see with testing on the alphatrak. Numbers in parentheses are for human meters.

Renal Threshold 260-310 (230-280) depending on what source you consult. A number above the renal threshold means that excess glucose is being dumped into the urine.

Normal non-diabetic cat (or food controlled diabetic like my Wink) 70-150 (40-120)

Regulated 130 210 (100-180)

Any number above 330 (300), you should be testing for ketones.

Wikipedia is one of my sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_in_cats
Click to expand...

Thank you for the clarification

And I realize it is only one test too. But I am looking for any nugget of good news I can get.

I also bought some ketone sticks and I'm going to try and get a sample this evening.
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

SO I did another BG 1/2 hour after Kitten had his early evening snack...BG was 210. Because I did not have my BG meter this AM, I did not shoot.

I also managed to get a urine sample too. NEGATIVE for keytones! Not a trace...nada! Used three strips to be sure!

I plan on testing after the last feeding tonight, then shooting 1/2u Lantis.

What BG number should I or shoud I not shoot?

Thanks!
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

How much did he eat today?

We dont advise newbies shoot under 200 until they have enough data to know how the cat will behave. However eventually your cat will get regulated and to keep him in good numbers you will need to learn to shoot low.. you shoot low to stay low. So its important to start tracking Kittens BG trends so you are prepared.
Can you set up a spreadsheet? http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

The first time you need to shoot under 200 (which may be soon) dont feed and dont shoot and come on here and an experienced member will walk you through it. Also dont feed two hours before the shot so that you know the preshot BG isnt influenced by food.


Wendy
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

Wendy&Tiggy said:
How much did he eat today? So far, he's had just over 7 oz. since 6:30 AM (cst) and we have one more feeding before bed.

We dont advise newbies shoot under 200 until they have enough data to know how the cat will behave. However eventually your cat will get regulated and to keep him in good numbers you will need to learn to shoot low.. you shoot low to stay low. So its important to start tracking Kittens BG trends so you are prepared.
Can you set up a spreadsheet? http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

The first time you need to shoot under 200 (which may be soon) dont feed and dont shoot and come on here and an experienced member will walk you through it. Also dont feed two hours before the shot so that you know the preshot BG isnt influenced by food.


Wendy
Click to expand...

I intend to setup a spreadsheet. It's been a priority just getting him to eat enough and we seem to be getting there.

I tested him after his mid-day meal using the Alpha Trak 2 that came in this afternoon and he was 245.

I'm stoked though, no ketones! :-D
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

dsmithkma said:
Deb & Wink said:
Yes, it's a decent number. Not the best but ok, especially since we know it is higher with the food influence.

I have put all these numbers in terms of what you will see with testing on the alphatrak. Numbers in parentheses are for human meters.

Renal Threshold 260-310 (230-280) depending on what source you consult. A number above the renal threshold means that excess glucose is being dumped into the urine.

Normal non-diabetic cat (or food controlled diabetic like my Wink) 70-150 (40-120)

Regulated 130 210 (100-180)

Any number above 330 (300), you should be testing for ketones.

Wikipedia is one of my sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_in_cats
Click to expand...

Thank you for the clarification

And I realize it is only one test too. But I am looking for any nugget of good news I can get.

I also bought some ketone sticks and I'm going to try and get a sample this evening.
Click to expand...

About ketones.... they can occur at ANY number. Do not think that below 300, your cat will not get ketones.
What you want to do is test your cat's urine at least once a day in the beginning because some cats are just prone to getting ketones and they happen at lower numbers for those cats as well as at higher numbers. To state the ketones occur only when numbers are high is a fallacy.

My cats did not ever register even a trace despite both were in quite high numbers for some time. The majority of the time, testing their urine was difficult because they both had their back ends facing the wall. Some cats are shy and don't like to be watched, so people have resorted to laying the strip in the urine pool for the required length of time. Many people here can give you their tips if you have problems.

Going by human meters, renal threshold is more like 200-240 and differs for each cat, and non-diabetic is closer to under 120. Regulated is the point you reach when your cat has nice smooth curves and numbers under 150, and hopefully under 100.
Just add on around 50points to those numbers and you've got your AT meter readings.

Gayle
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

Thank you Gayle.

I intend to ketone test at least once a day for the forseeable future. I have been able to get a sample using an old soup ladle.

I just did his preshot BG test and it was 193. He then ate 2 oz. of food (7.2 oz. total today)

I'm hestiant to shoot now.

Thoughts?
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

I wouldn't. You are under 200 and don't have enough data to know what will happen next, he could go up or go spiraling down. Skip the shot and get a test in 2-3 hours to see what he does next without the shot.

We need that SS ;)
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

Wendy&Tiggy said:
I wouldn't. You are under 200 and don't have enough data to know what will happen next, he could go up or go spiraling down. Skip the shot and get a test in 2-3 hours to see what he does next without the shot.

We need that SS ;)
Click to expand...

OK, I'll skip it. Not sure if I can do another on in 2-3 hours.
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

dsmithkma said:
Thank you Gayle.

I intend to ketone test at least once a day for the forseeable future. I have been able to get a sample using an old soup ladle.

I just did his preshot BG test and it was 193. He then ate 2 oz. of food. I'm hestiant to shoot now.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

OK the next time you are not sure about giving a shot or not, don't feed. What you can do instead is to wait for 15min or so and test again..... you want to see a rising number. Now that you have fed him a bit, he will likely rise a bit higher.

Your dose is only 1/2 unit yes? I would think it is OK, if you want to shoot; just get another test at about +2 or +3 to see where he is.
If you test at bedtime and you are not sure if the number is too low, you can give him some food, even some medium carb to see him over the nite.
If you can't do more testing, then you may as well skip because you need to watch for your cat going lower at nite, as some do.

Gayle
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

I woke up feeling lousy this morning...picked up some kind of bug. I am sure Kitten feels better than me right now.

His AMPS test was 221. I fed him and he ate 2.6 oz. The little guy seems to be getting his appetite back in a good way.

I gave him .5u of his Lantis.

I'll try and test him in +2 or +3 or so.
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

Wendy&Tiggy said:
Sounds like you need some ~O) ~O) ~O) :smile:
Click to expand...

Thanks, Wendy. I can always tell when I have a bug. I am a coffee drinker, but when feeling rotten all I want is hot tea. ANd summer bugs really stink :lol:

My sweet biy ate, got his shot, and is now napping. Does yours ever stretch out n a chair then they rotate their head upside down mid sleep? It's like how do thye NOT get a crick in their neck, LOL.
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

I just took a +2 reading and it was 63 on the ALpha Trak 2.

What should I do, if anyhting?
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

Dan,

Give 1 teaspoon of low carb food and test again in 20-30 minutes. Get the karo syrup ready but don't give any yet.

ETA: anything below 80 on a Alphatrak needs some food. I'll be here to monitor.

I just saw your note in your signature link that the vet thinks the diabetes is steroid induced. That is very common. The good news, is that steroid induced diabetic cats have a very high chance of remission. I forget what the percentage is but I believe it is over 80% within the first couple of months of treatment and proper low carb diet.

Hope your summer bug doesn't keep you down for long. Sending healing vines and plenty of feel better vines.
 
Re: Just Tested-Need Advice

Would you please go back to the very first post in this topic, change the icon to the 911 icon, and change the subject to Help, possible hypo w/Alphatrak.

Do you have some gravy type canned food on hand? Plenty of test strips?

Add one drop of karo syrup to the LC (low carb food) if he hasn't eaten it already.
If he has already eaten the food, smear the one drop of karo on his gums.
That is a fast and steep drop and we need to bring those numbers up.

6/12
AMPS 221
+2 63
 
Do you have a can of gravy type cat food?

Squeeze out a teaspoon of that and let him eat it. We don't want him to get full, so only the gravy part if you can.

If no gravy type cat food, rub a bit more karo on his gums, a 1/2 teaspoon and test again in 20-30 minutes
 
Deb & Wink said:
Do you have a can of gravy type cat food?

Squeeze out a teaspoon of that and let him eat it. We don't want him to get full, so only the gravy part if you can.

If no gravy type cat food, rub a bit more karo on his gums, a 1/2 teaspoon and test again in 20-30 minutes
Click to expand...

No gravy...rubbed a bit more karo on his gums.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Thank you. Next test 30 minutes from the last one.

Did he eat the 1 teaspoon of low carb food?
Click to expand...

He ate a bit of it. I also rubbed several drops of kyro n his gums too.
 
I think the AT is working fine. BTW this means a dose reduction tomorrow to 0.25IU.

Time for another test.

This is early in the cycle Deb I think we need to bring him up -lets see where he is now but if he is still low I am thinking 2 tsp of HC or 2 drops of syrup in LC

Wendy
 
He isnt coming up enough. Give 2 good size drops of karo this time in 1 tsp LC and retest again in 30. We will be here watching. It might bring him up and wear off though so we need to continue to be vigilant.

How is your supplies of strips?
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
He isnt coming up enough. Give 2 good size drops of karo this time in 1 tsp LC and retest again in 30. We will be here watching. It might bring him up and wear off though so we need to continue to be vigilant.

How is your supplies of strips?
Click to expand...


I'm good on strips.
 
6/12
AMPS 221
+2 63
+2.5 65 with karo
+3 66 with karo

I agree, we need the number to come up more. He's a long way from nadir.

If he won't eat the LC food mixed with karo, you need to smear more karo on his gums.
 
Ok good. I have also asked for more eyes to come over. Did you give that syrup?

Also any symptoms?

If my cats wont take the syrup I mix it with a little butter. they love butter but just a small pea worth.
 
That's a rapid, steep drop.

We are trying to get his numbers up above 80. Prefer 100.

We are a long way from nadir.

We can keep trying to raise the number with the karo and food, or you can take him to the vet.

Just in case, how far away is your vet?

Do you have someone to help you? To drive to the vet while you give the karo.
 
I am alone at home.
No symptoms. He ate some food with the karo on it and is walking fine too.

I called my vet, they said feed him aand monitor him. No insulin tonight or tomorrow. SHe thinks the wet food mey be regulating him better than expected.
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
I think the AT is working fine. BTW this means a dose reduction tomorrow to 0.25IU.

Time for another test.

This is early in the cycle Deb I think we need to bring him up -lets see where he is now but if he is still low I am thinking 2 tsp of HC or 2 drops of syrup in LC

Wendy
Click to expand...
Wendy, He doesn't have any high carb food on hand. Only the karo. Kitten also did not want to eat the LC food mixed with karo, Only a little bit Dan said.
 
Hi Ladies,

Some symptoms of hypo here (from the hypo sticky) for reference:

Some cats may have NO symptoms whatsoever, but here are the most common ones:

MILD HYPOGLYCEMIA
Sudden ravenous hunger
Shivering
Weak or lethargic

MODERATE HYPOGLYCEMIA
Disorientation
Trouble with vision... bumps into furniture
Poor coordination, such as staggering, walking in circles or acting drunk
Changes in head or neck movements
Restlessness
Urgent meowing
Behavioral changes, such as aggressiveness

SEVERE HYPOGLYCEMIA
Convulsions or seizures
Unconsciousness


TREATMENT

During treatment for hypoglycemia, try to test every 15 minutes until you see the bgs begin to rise. Then continue to test until you are satisfied that the cat is out of danger.


viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887

The above list is not exhaustive. Be aware of any changes in behaviour.
 
I would add very dilated pupils that do not contract with light to the hypo symptom list <60 reading with the Alphatrak.
 
We need to get a good couple of drops into kitten as he is currently in hypo territory. Can you rub it on his gums to make sure he gets a good amount? or put it on fav treat? (even a high carb piece of kibble)
 
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