Help needed! Possible hypo scare last night, now to proceed today?

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mosi_yazhi said:
She had dental work done years ago, and she was temporarily put on steroids even further back for some feline chin acne that got nasty, but really nothing lately, aside from the UTI flare up last month, which she was prescribed the Clavamox for.

I changed her food as soon as I got the diabetes diagnosis, her and my other cat Sophie. Olivia lived her whole life basically on Meow Mix. She never really took to canned when she was younger, so I never thought about it/tried to push it. She seems to be tolerating it now, though, because I think it's hard for her to chew the dry with the bad tooth. The vet tried to sell me on the DM Purina stuff, but I found the spreadsheet for the low carb, supermarket recommendations here. Shes been eating a lot of Fancy Feast, Friskies and 9lives patés since her diagnosis, usually at 6% carbs or lower.

We're from the US, actually! In Arizonan on the Navajo Reservation to be exact :D
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Sounds like an interesting place to live! And hot :oops::rolleyes: and that would be why buying strips is an hour each way!
We can drive from one end of Denmark to the other in four hours, so I'm definitely not used to big distances :D

Did you change food before starting insulin? Infections can also drive the blood glucose up. But I don't know if an infection could lead to a diagnosis of diabetes...

Do as Melissa says, skip if below 225. :D
Just to be safe! Safety first :bighug:

I'm heading to bed now, it's almost midnight here and I might get busy later :nailbiting:
I'll stop by tomorrow morning and see how it's been going :bighug:
If you need to tag anyone, use @ and type a few letters and pick their names of the list. If she drops back down, you can edit your title to get more attention from others.
You have a great safe day!:bighug:
 
FrostD said:
Would you mind updating this to include the food you gave and what it was (karo, honey, MC, HC)?

She's rising without food for awhile so you should be ok to leave.

Without a spreadsheet or more data - I would be skipping with any preshot under 225. I personally don't like to see numbers under 80/90 on Vetsulin, those can be more dangerous since it drops hard and fast. Technically she earned a 0.25U reduction since she went below 90, but I'd like to see whatever data you have. 1U is definitely too much.

I skimmed - did you recently transition to low carb diet? Is there any history of ketones/DKA?

Guidance for tonight in case I'm not back on - give 0.25U only if above 225. Below that, skip. If you give a shot I'd test hourly from +1 to +5 if you can, so we can see when onset and possibly nadir are.

Edit: I changed threshold from 200 to 225. Given the food interventions you had to do today and not much data, 200 might even be a bit risky to shoot. 225 should be a bit more comfortable.
Click to expand...

Ok, here you go!

7:45am - 166bg. Gave half a can of 3% 9lives (she ate 1/2 of it -- so 1/4th a can total.)

10:42am - .25u vetsulin

11:10am - 135bg (taken at the behest of Shelley & Jess.) Nibbled more of her breakfast, had a few dried chicken treats.

12:12pm - 76bg. Had some Friskies Gravy Lovers. A few Meow Mix HC treats. Smeared a small dab of honey on her gums.

1:05pm - 64bg. Smeared another (larger) dab of honey. More Friskies gravy.

1:53pm - 101bg. A few Meow Mix HC treats. No longer interested in the gravy.


2:32pm - 143bg. A freeze dried chicken treat to thank her for the blood sample.

3:20pm - 171bg. A freeze dried chicken treat to thank her for the blood sample.
​
No history of DKA, but shes newly diagnosed and has a UTI and a bad tooth, that's why I was cautious and didnt want to skip.

Recently switched from dry food to 6% or lower canned food.

Its not as exact as a spreadsheet, but I have been jotting down her pre-shot/food AM and PM numbers since I started giving her insulin.

April 27
AM - 367, 2u insulin
PM - 114, (no insulin)

April 28
AM - (no test, no insulin)
PM - 273, 1.5u insulin

April 29
AM - 252, 1u insulin
PM - 142, 1u insulin

April 30
AM - 159, 1u insulin
PM - 172, 1u insulin

May 1
AM - 212, 1u insulin
PM - 190, 1u insulin

May 2

9am - 122, 1u insulin
8pm - 174, 1u insulin

May 3

7:45am - 128, 1u insulin
7:19am - 150, 1u insulin

May 4

7:28am - 111, 1u insulin
8:00pm - 114, 1u

May 5

7:09am - 184, 1u
10:15pm - 160, 1u

May 6

9:03am - 114, 1u
7:46pm - 121, 1u

May 7

7:19am - 174, 1u insulin
7:24pm - 126, 1u

May 8

6:59 am - 133, 1u
7:30 pm - 172, 1u

May 9

7:50 am - 139, 1u
7:07 pm - 119, 1u

May 10

7:02 am - 174, 1u
7:34 pm - 104, .5u

May 11
7:00 am - 146, 1u
6:45 pm - 106, .5u

May 12 (today!)

7:45a - 166, .25u
​
... looking back on those numbers, I'm amazed she didnt have a proper hypo scare before this.

Anyway, shes in the 170s bg now, going to make a mad run to the store the next town over and buy test and ketone strips!
​
 
SashaV said:
Sounds like an interesting place to live! And hot :oops::rolleyes: and that would be why buying strips is an hour each way!
We can drive from one end of Denmark to the other in four hours, so I'm definitely not used to big distances :D

Did you change food before starting insulin? Infections can also drive the blood glucose up. But I don't know if an infection could lead to a diagnosis of diabetes...

Do as Melissa says, skip if below 225. :D
Just to be safe! Safety first :bighug:

I'm heading to bed now, it's almost midnight here and I might get busy later :nailbiting:
I'll stop by tomorrow morning and see how it's been going :bighug:
If you need to tag anyone, use @ and type a few letters and pick their names of the list. If she drops back down, you can edit your title to get more attention from others.
You have a great safe day!:bighug:
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for being here and helping me through this! Have a great sleep! :)
 
mosi_yazhi said:
Ok, here you go!

7:45am - 166bg. Gave half a can of 3% 9lives (she ate 1/2 of it -- so 1/4th a can total.)

10:42am - .25u vetsulin

11:10am - 135bg (taken at the behest of Shelley & Jess.) Nibbled more of her breakfast, had a few dried chicken treats.

12:12pm - 76bg. Had some Friskies Gravy Lovers. A few Meow Mix HC treats. Smeared a small dab of honey on her gums.

1:05pm - 64bg. Smeared another (larger) dab of honey. More Friskies gravy.

1:53pm - 101bg. A few Meow Mix HC treats. No longer interested in the gravy.


2:32pm - 143bg. A freeze dried chicken treat to thank her for the blood sample.

3:20pm - 171bg. A freeze dried chicken treat to thank her for the blood sample.
​
No history of DKA, but shes newly diagnosed and has a UTI and a bad tooth, that's why I was cautious and didnt want to skip.

Recently switched from dry food to 6% or lower canned food.

Its not as exact as a spreadsheet, but I have been jotting down her pre-shot/food AM and PM numbers since I started giving her insulin.

April 27
AM - 367, 2u insulin
PM - 114, (no insulin)

April 28
AM - (no test, no insulin)
PM - 273, 1.5u insulin

April 29
AM - 252, 1u insulin
PM - 142, 1u insulin

April 30
AM - 159, 1u insulin
PM - 172, 1u insulin

May 1
AM - 212, 1u insulin
PM - 190, 1u insulin

May 2

9am - 122, 1u insulin
8pm - 174, 1u insulin

May 3

7:45am - 128, 1u insulin
7:19am - 150, 1u insulin

May 4

7:28am - 111, 1u insulin
8:00pm - 114, 1u

May 5

7:09am - 184, 1u
10:15pm - 160, 1u

May 6

9:03am - 114, 1u
7:46pm - 121, 1u

May 7

7:19am - 174, 1u insulin
7:24pm - 126, 1u

May 8

6:59 am - 133, 1u
7:30 pm - 172, 1u

May 9

7:50 am - 139, 1u
7:07 pm - 119, 1u

May 10

7:02 am - 174, 1u
7:34 pm - 104, .5u

May 11
7:00 am - 146, 1u
6:45 pm - 106, .5u

May 12 (today!)

7:45a - 166, .25u
​
... looking back on those numbers, I'm amazed she didnt have a proper hypo scare before this.

Anyway, shes in the 170s bg now, going to make a mad run to the store the next town over and buy test and ketone strips!
​
Click to expand...
Gotcha! I'll stick with my prior advice for guidance...we really need more midcycle data to see what the curve looks like, and I know you're on it!

If you're feeling adventurous and can stay up to monitor, you could try a 0.1U dose. It's a bit hard to measure but can "eyeball" it.

Oh, just to double check. You're using U40 syringes right? It should say U40 on the side of the barrel. Do they have half unit markings?
 
Ok, I'm still here. :(

I was ready to walk out the door, when I decided to do one last check.

3:20pm - 171bg
>
3:49pm - 148bg

She dipped a little.

I decided to wait a bit longer, and then

4:24pm - 130bg

She dipped more.

Maybe it was the honey wearing off?

I have 6 strips left. I dont feel confident in leaving. Curfew is at 10.

We're at about 5+ by now -- might she continue to go lower? Or might she start climbing as the Vetsulin wears off? :banghead:
 
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FrostD said:
Gotcha! I'll stick with my prior advice for guidance...we really need more midcycle data to see what the curve looks like, and I know you're on it!

If you're feeling adventurous and can stay up to monitor, you could try a 0.1U dose. It's a bit hard to measure but can "eyeball" it.

Oh, just to double check. You're using U40 syringes right? It should say U40 on the side of the barrel. Do they have half unit markings?
Click to expand...

I'm using U-40 syringes, yes! With the red cap. No half markings on the tube unfortunately.

Please see my prior post. She dipped again, and IDK what to do. I dont want to leave her for a few hours while I go fetch strips :arghh: I have 6 left. Am I just being dramatic? 130 at +5.

At this point, my nerves are shot, her ears are red and bruised and I'm not sure I want to give her any at all for PM dose tonight.
 
mosi_yazhi said:
At this point, my nerves are shot, her ears are red and bruised and I'm not sure I want to give her any at all for PM dose tonight
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FWIW, I agree. You guys need a break.

mosi_yazhi said:
She dipped again, and IDK what to do. I dont want to leave her for a few hours while I go fetch strips :arghh: I have 6 left. Am I just being dramatic? 130 at +5.
Click to expand...
Hopefully this +5 is her nadir and she flattens out or starts coming up on her own now.
 
mosi_yazhi said:
I'm using U-40 syringes, yes! With the red cap. No half markings on the tube unfortunately.

Please see my prior post. She dipped again, and IDK what to do. I dont want to leave her for a few hours while I go fetch strips :arghh: I have 6 left. Am I just being dramatic? 130 at +5.

At this point, my nerves are shot, her ears are red and bruised and I'm not sure I want to give her any at all for PM dose tonight.
Click to expand...

It's more important you have strips on hand; she's in safe numbers, it's very likely it's the higher carb stuff wearing off. It would be very very unusual for Vetsulin to keep dropping her past this time.

Otherwise, I'd recommend skipping tonight's shot and the AM shot while you get strips tomorrow. She'd for sure be safe then, and you can resume with tomorrow's PM shot (or even give yourself an extra day, start with Friday AM so you don't potentially have to lose sleep Thursday night).

I see no harm in skipping and giving yourself a break! That was a trial by fire for sure, I get it!
 
As an FYI, the honey/syrup/ice cream type stuff usually wears off quickly, usually within 30-60 mins. The actual food takes longer; its why we also usually recommend food in addition to honey during hypos. The honey gets you a fast bump out of dangerous numbers, and the food helps to sustain the bump and keep from dropping again
 
FrostD said:
It's more important you have strips on hand; she's in safe numbers, it's very likely it's the higher carb stuff wearing off. It would be very very unusual for Vetsulin to keep dropping her past this time.

Otherwise, I'd recommend skipping tonight's shot and the AM shot while you get strips tomorrow. She'd for sure be safe then, and you can resume with tomorrow's PM shot (or even give yourself an extra day, start with Friday AM so you don't potentially have to lose sleep Thursday night).

I see no harm in skipping and giving yourself a break! That was a trial by fire for sure, I get it!
Click to expand...

I called my cousin up across town, and he said he could lend me a couple strips of his just to occasionally check her tonight and tomorrow before I leave \o/ Not enough to monitor her completely, but enough that I'm not running on fumes.

Initially asked if HE could do the strip run for me since he got off work, but his car is in the shop, but by chance he uses the same meter, and said I could bum a few off him. Gonna buy him a whole new pack tomorrow when I get Olivias.

Since I'm skipping tonight and tomorrow AM, should I feed her some of the 1% carb FF I have for dinner? That wont raise her very much, right?

Shelley & Jess said:
FWIW, I agree. You guys need a break.


Hopefully this +5 is her nadir and she flattens out or starts coming up on her own now.
Click to expand...

You and me both. Just realized I haven't had a proper meal today, so MY sugars are probably in the toilet as well lol. Gonna order a pizza and try to relax.

Thank you so much for being here, and being the first to reply! It really helped calm my nerves and I for sure would have lost my marbles having to figure this out on my own.
 
mosi_yazhi said:
I called my cousin up across town, and he said he could lend me a couple strips of his just to occasionally check her tonight and tomorrow before I leave \o/ Not enough to monitor her completely, but enough that I'm not running on fumes.

Initially asked if HE could do the strip run for me since he got off work, but his car is in the shop, but by chance he uses the same meter, and said I could bum a few off him. Gonna buy him a whole new pack tomorrow when I get Olivias.

Since I'm skipping tonight and tomorrow AM, should I feed her some of the 1% carb FF I have for dinner? That wont raise her very much, right?



You and me both. Just realized I haven't had a proper meal today, so MY sugars are probably in the toilet as well lol. Gonna order a pizza and try to relax.

Thank you so much for being here, and being the first to reply! It really helped calm my nerves and I for sure would have lost my marbles having to figure this out on my own.
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Yes, I would feed her whatever is the lowest carb you have. It'll help keep numbers down...sometimes when they creep up it can be hard to catch them and bring them back down. BUT I wouldn't stress over it, she's not too high to begin with and will be fine with whatever you feed her. Get some rest!
 
Been following , I'm relieved Olivia is ok. I'm glad you are skipping tonight and tomorrow until you get more test strips

I don't know if you have a Walmart where you live but the Relion Meter (human meter ) is 9 dollars
The test strips are only 17.88 for 100 strips
You must be paying more for the meter you are using for only 50 strips

Just a suggestion since they are so much cheaper and you go thru a lot of text strips

If you order on line they ship really fast
Good luck tomorrow
Since you will be out tomorrow stock up on any med and high carb foods just in case you run low

@Bandit's Mom will be happy to set up the spreadsheet for you
Thanks Bhooma

You both must be exhausted, Olivia is a cutie :cat:
 
I did a search here because I remembered members talking about their kittys ears being sore
You mentioned her ears are red and bruised
I copied it for you

just make sure the only ingredient is coconut oil (mine is solid at room temp and I would take an itty bitty dab and rub on his ears)
Just make sure it's pure coconut oil
 
SashaV said:
Bouncing is the body's reaction to lower numbers than it is used to. So if the cat is usually in the 300 range, 150 is low and may trigger a bounce.

I've never heard of stress as a cause though... has she ever had a steroid shot? Or oral treatment? Stress raises their blood glucose temporarily. But I don't know for sure.

@Bandit's Mom can help you with a spreadsheet. Bhooma is in Mumbai so she is a sleep right now, but she'll be here tomorrow morning. Keep an eye on your private messages, she'll need some informations from you to set it up.

Aaaaw her name is Olivia? What a great name! Where are you from? Canada or the UK?
I'm sure Deb and Janet will have lots of information for you, follow their advice. And keep an eye on her, honey and karo doesn't last very long, so she can take another dive. When she has been in good numbers two hours without help from you with food and honey, you can leave to get more strips.

Did you change her food recently?
Deb or Janet should be here soon, but if by any chance they don't show up, I'd skip until you get their advice
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@Deb & Wink

@JanetNJ

Just wanted to make sure you got the tag
Wendy and her kitty Olivia had some day today
We asked @Bandit's Mom to set up a SS for her
Wendy posted all the numbers above. #41, #46 and #56


She also posted numbers and units in #53
 
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I recommend skipping the dose of Vetsulin until you get more test strips.
There have been too many low pre-shot BG numbers to be giving Olivia that 1U dose.

While you are out shopping, pick up some urine ketone test strips too.

p.s. Just catching up now Diane. It's been a long day, and my 2 new kitties need extra attention.
 
Deb & Wink said:
I recommend skipping the dose of Vetsulin until you get more test strips.
While you are out shopping, pick up some urine ketone test strips too.

p.s. Just catching up now Diane. It's been a long day, and my 2 new kitties need extra attention.
Click to expand...
No problem @Deb & Wink she was told to skip until she got more test strips
New kitties! Please PM me about them Deb
Have a good night ♥:bighug::cat:
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Been following , I'm relieved Olivia is ok. I'm glad you are skipping tonight and tomorrow until you get more test strips

I don't know if you have a Walmart where you live but the Relion Meter (human meter ) is 9 dollars
The test strips are only 17.88 for 100 strips
You must be paying more for the meter you are using for only 50 strips

Just a suggestion since they are so much cheaper and you go thru a lot of text strips

If you order on line they ship really fast
Good luck tomorrow
Since you will be out tomorrow stock up on any med and high carb foods just in case you run low

@Bandit's Mom will be happy to set up the spreadsheet for you
Thanks Bhooma

You both must be exhausted, Olivia is a cutie :cat:
Click to expand...

Are the Relion meters good?

The Accu-Check is actually the SECOND meter I bought. The first one was a TrueMetrix, and I found it was hard to get the blood to siphon up the channel to get to where it needed to be to be read? If that makes sense. The Accu-check is nice in that I feel I rarely 'waste' a strip, because of an improper sample/the blood goes where it needs to.

But my lord, 100 strips for 18 bucks... I'll think about it.

Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I did a search here because I remembered members talking about their kittys ears being sore
You mentioned her ears are red and bruised
I copied it for you

just make sure the only ingredient is coconut oil (mine is solid at room temp and I would take an itty bitty dab and rub on his ears)
Just make sure it's pure coconut oil
Click to expand...

I have some of that on hand, thankfully! Thanks for the tip! Just applied it to her ears. It came out of the fridge, so hopefully some of the cold helped soothe her achy ears.

I read somewhere that it's not recommended to use an alcohol pad to clean the ear before a poke? Is there a reason for it? I feel like I'm poking her a lot, trying to get a viable sample. I feel like sometimes I get the sweet spot that people talk about... but that I also sometimes hit the vein. I'm paranoid of giving her some type of infection. I wash my hands before every test, but... shes an elderly cat, and she doesnt spend as much time grooming herself. I've definitely had to touch her fur/hold her to get her to cooperate, and I feel that that just contaminates my hands before I handle her ears. She still squirms a lot, even with me bribing her with treats.
 
Deb & Wink said:
I recommend skipping the dose of Vetsulin until you get more test strips.
There have been too many low pre-shot BG numbers to be giving Olivia that 1U dose.

While you are out shopping, pick up some urine ketone test strips too.

p.s. Just catching up now Diane. It's been a long day, and my 2 new kitties need extra attention.
Click to expand...

Ketone testers are definitely on the list, thank you!
 
SashaV said:
How are you guys doing today? :bighug:
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Good! A lot less stressed than yesterday, thank you!

This is where we're at, continuing from yesterday, when she had .25u vetsulin at ABOUT 11am, after dipping low the night before:

1:53pm - 101bg. A few Meow Mix HC treats. No longer interested in the gravy.


2:32pm - 143bg. A freeze dried chicken treat to thank her for the blood sample.

3:20pm - 171bg. A freeze dried chicken treat to thank her for the blood sample.
​
3:49pm - 148 bg. (+4:49) Considering I was *about* to leave for a few hours, and she took a dip, I gave her a few more HC treats because... worrywart.

4:24pm - 130bg. (+5:24) A few more treats. I decide not to leave the house afterall.

5:27pm - 145bg. (+6:27) Probably those treats starting to hit her bloodstream.

7:10pm - 187bg. (+8:10) ... Oops. Regardless, she had dinner shorty after this. About half a can of FF 1%. Took her last dose of Clavamox.

---Today---

2:35am - 160bg. (+15:35) Randomly woke up and decided to see where she was at. Noticed she didnt finish her dinner, and encouraged her to finish the other 1/2 can of the FF 1%

7:34am - 130bg. (+20:34) She's working on breakfast right now, a 1/2 can of 9lives 3%

I'm excited(?) to see where her sugars will go without the Clavamox giving her the diarrhea now. We spent the night on the couch again, and after her dinner and the 2:35am feeding, I could hear her tummy gurgle a bit, poor baby.

@FrostD @Shelley & Jess @Deb & Wink @Diane Tyler's Mom (Hopefully that's every one?)
 
mosi_yazhi said:
Good! A lot less stressed than yesterday, thank you!

This is where we're at, continuing from yesterday, when she had .25u vetsulin at ABOUT 11am, after dipping low the night before:

1:53pm - 101bg. A few Meow Mix HC treats. No longer interested in the gravy.


2:32pm - 143bg. A freeze dried chicken treat to thank her for the blood sample.

3:20pm - 171bg. A freeze dried chicken treat to thank her for the blood sample.
​
3:49pm - 148 bg. (+4:49) Considering I was *about* to leave for a few hours, and she took a dip, I gave her a few more HC treats because... worrywart.

4:24pm - 130bg. (+5:24) A few more treats. I decide not to leave the house afterall.

5:27pm - 145bg. (+6:27) Probably those treats starting to hit her bloodstream.

7:10pm - 187bg. (+8:10) ... Oops. Regardless, she had dinner shorty after this. About half a can of FF 1%. Took her last dose of Clavamox.

---Today---

2:35am - 160bg. (+15:35) Randomly woke up and decided to see where she was at. Noticed she didnt finish her dinner, and encouraged her to finish the other 1/2 can of the FF 1%

7:34am - 130bg. (+20:34) She's working on breakfast right now, a 1/2 can of 9lives 3%

I'm excited(?) to see where her sugars will go without the Clavamox giving her the diarrhea now. We spent the night on the couch again, and after her dinner and the 2:35am feeding, I could hear her tummy gurgle a bit, poor baby.

@FrostD @Shelley & Jess @Deb & Wink @Diane Tyler's Mom (Hopefully that's every one?)
Click to expand...
So this is actually good news! It looks to me like her pancreas might actually still be working a bit - she ate, and BG went down on its own without insulin. Was she by chance on steroids before diagnosis? Or any other type of illness?
 
FrostD said:
So this is actually good news! It looks to me like her pancreas might actually still be working a bit - she ate, and BG went down on its own without insulin. Was she by chance on steroids before diagnosis? Or any other type of illness?
Click to expand...

No steroids for a good number of years.

Just the UTI being treated with the Clavamox, and the Vet thinking a tooth or two needing to be extracted.
 
---Today---

2:35am - 160bg. (+15:35) Randomly woke up and decided to see where she was at. Noticed she didnt finish her dinner, and encouraged her to finish the other 1/2 can of the FF 1%

7:34am - 130bg. (+20:34) She's working on breakfast right now, a 1/2 can of 9lives 3%
​
9:59am - 136bg. (+22:59) Its been 2-ish hours since she started breakfast, and shes been nibbling at it slowly since, which is her usual MO. Nothing exciting.

About to head out to do the shopping. I'm sure Olivia's glad I'll be out of the house and not terrorizing her poor ears today :cat:
 
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