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It means he has started to rise. So today his nadir (or lowest point) was +4/5. We can't be sure - he could have dropped more after the +4 reading. We'd like to see a nadir in the +5-7 range, because the insulin would be bringing down the numbers for a longer time. Best scenario is that he surfs for awhile - staying in the 250 range and not moving up rapidly. The next thing we're looking for is how fast he goes up - does he surf? Or does he start climbing now? An ideal curve with Vetsulin would be smile shaped, with the pre shot number in the same range both am and pm and 12 hours apart.

Is any of this making sense?
 
Sort of. I would like to see him about the same during the 12 hrs doses.

Normally I feed him at 1 pm. But didn't since it raised. Do I feed him if the 3pm is higher? I'm thinking no because his bs is ok now but he seems to be hungry or it could be because he is use to being fed.
 
At some point, food may be a way to work with his numbers. For now, not so important. The only time you want to withhold food is the 2 hours before each pre shot test. You want that test to be true, not influenced by food, because you are basing the dose on it. Food can make levels go up; you can use that when he is too low or dropping too fast.
 
So he is surfing long - very encouraging! It would be discouraging if the insulin had run out and he had jumped up to the 300s+. So, the insulin is still working. Great!
 
Hi Sharon, I don't know if anyone mentioned to you that you can put Neosporin ointment with pain relief on his ears after every prink. It will make sure he doesn't get infected and soothes it for him. :bighug:
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
They are certainly dosed the same. ProZinc tends to have a slower drop, be less harsh and last longer. But we have certainly had cats who do fine on Vetsulin and do go into remission. If I were you, I'd give it a chance. Once you see how it works in Smokey, there may be ways to use the food to soften the curve. The most important difference is the length of cycle. If Vetsulin only lasts 8 hours and is gone, leaving the cat in high ranges for 4 hours, you can only combat that by dosing every 8 hours. Complicated and not feasible for most cat parents. But in some cats, it lasts longer. We have an annoying but absolutely true saying here : Every Cat is Different
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Up until the last week or so, Squallie has seen good duration from the Vetsulin. It does definitely cause sharp, hard drops, tho, and seeing the lowest numbers for the day at around +4/5 seems to be fairly consistant, at least for us.
 
Lucy, you were mentioned as one I should talk with regarding Vetsulin. I see from the ss that Squallie is running in the 300's at least today. Is that a normal range? I was trying to stay under that, am I being to realistic? Is 300's okay? My vet wants it to be no more than 300. I see you also feed him a lot more than I give Smokey. I don't want him to gain anymore weight but not lose to much either.
 
woodsywife said:
Lucy, you were mentioned as one I should talk with regarding Vetsulin. I see from the ss that Squallie is running in the 300's at least today. Is that a normal range? I was trying to stay under that, am I being to realistic? Is 300's okay? My vet wants it to be no more than 300. I see you also feed him a lot more than I give Smokey. I don't want him to gain anymore weight but not lose to much either.
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300 is on the high side, but don't panic yet. I don't think AMPS and PMPS numbers in the 300s are unusual this early in the game, as long as you're getting reasonable, lower numbers throughout the day. If you look at Squallie's spreadsheet #s from about 8 days ago and before, you'll see that he was doing reasonably well on the Vetsulin. I am mystified by the sudden change in patterns starting around the first of the month. I use a Relion monitor to test him, so our numbers won't really be compatible, but you can see, just looking at the patterns, the where Vetsulin is taking him. I am trying to get Squallie back down to a lower BG on a more regular basis, again. If you can get a spreadsheet started it would be very helpful. You'll be able to see patterns in Smokey's #s that you probably wouldn't see, otherwise, and it's easier for us, too, to offer advice when we can see it. I will pass on some of the best advice offered to me: ultimately, insulin is a hormone, not a drug, and it is a s-l-o-w process to regulate our kitties' BG with it. So, you're definitely gonna need a pair of Patience Pants, I don't know how to order them up but lots of others here, do, lol.

As far as weight goes, Squallie is a little on the chunky side, but not bad. His weight tends to fluctuate a little, but he stays between 13 and 14 lbs, which is just about right for him. He is a convert (unwillingly, lol) from dry food, so I haven't completely established yet what the best amounts of canned food for him are, it's kind of a work in progress. I just ordered a set of baby scales to weigh him, and that should help. Ultimately, every cat is different (ECID, you'll hear that a lot!) so if what you're feeding Smokey maintains his weight at a good place, go with that, or adjust a little, in small increments, if you think he needs more, or less. Just try not to feed him for about two hours before his AM and PM tests. It's usually best to test, feed, wait a little for the food to get into his system-30 to 60 minutes is what they recommend- and then dose.

Let me know when you get your spreadsheet up and running, and I will look it over. I am still fairly new here myself, but I'm pretty familiar now with Vetsulin, so if I can help further, I'll be glad to!
 
woodsywife said:
Prozinc costed $200/month. He use to be on it. But my vet said he won't offer it to customers. I will look into the site that's mentioned. I imagine I will need a script. Vetsulin is $52/month. So a little more I could do. And maybe the dose can get even lower.
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Check out BCP PZI. Similar to ProZinc and less expensive, lasts longer than Vetsulin. Your vet faxes in an Rx; you pay the company.
 
Hi Paula and Smokey.
I'm so so glad you found FDMB.
Bless you a thousand times over for putting a value on Smokey's life and taking on his care. You're my kind of folks.
Smokey looks just like my childhood kitty, Krissy. She was sweet in demeanor too, just like Smokey. Miss her.
I'm new here myself, just wanted to offer some support and encouragement. You have absolutely the BEST people on this planet currently looking after you here.
Let them help and guide you. You can take a breath here!

I hope your back feels better! I can relate to that too.
Give Smokey a hug for me.
All the best
Brenda
 
7 pm bs is 369. It's time to dose him and feed him. Should I stick with the 3.5U? And do I continue to test him til I go to bed?
 
Can we get you started using our grid to record your glucose tests? It will help us give you better feedback. Instructions are here.

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning, pre-shot, test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening, pre-shot, test)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

The nadir is the lowest glucose between shots. There is a general period when it will happen which is specific to the insulin being used and testing then helps make sure your cat doesn't go too low.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
 
BJM said:
Can we get you started using our grid to record your glucose tests? It will help us give you better feedback. Instructions are here.

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning, pre-shot, test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening, pre-shot, test)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

The nadir is the lowest glucose between shots. There is a general period when it will happen which is specific to the insulin being used and testing then helps make sure your cat doesn't go too low.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
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Been trying but tablet won't open it. Can't find Google drive. It says it's installed but can't find it. Tried desktop but browser isn't supported and can't find the new and pull oily ad buttons.
 
I downloaded to my desktop the sheet someone sent me. Saved as..... then it's wants save as type????? And encoding option??????

It also has a button on the sheet "sign in as me to edit" ??????? I click but it brings me to Google login and I'm already logged in. Found the new and file upload but once I click that and it asks to try 3rd party, eml viewer, cloud reader, or eml mht viewer??????
 
I know nothing about Google, Google drive. Can't find Google sheets. I'm logged into Google but keeps telling me to use another account. It just doesn't work. Something isn't working or some step is missing.
 
I think sticking with the 3.5 is a good idea. If you can, a +2 is always a good test. It can tell you whether the cycle is going down fast or not. Then, if you can +5 as that was close to his nadir today.

Not a bad cycle. Lower pmps than morning and the Vetsulin lasted longer than it often does.
 
Okay, think I was to get the spreadsheet don't know how but just clicking around. I never found the US Spreadsheet Template but found some kind of alpha trac spreadsheet. I think I have to reformat some but want to see if the link comes through
 
Yes, it comes up. And AlphaTrak should work because that is your meter. Save the original one to your Favorites. It's the one you add data to. The one in your signature is a Read Only document. You should be able to retrieve the original through Goggle docs and your documents?

So, on the first line, put the date Of the first test you want to record. Amps is a number you got before the shot and food in the am. u is the number of units given. +2 is the test 2 hours after the shot, +6 is the test six hours later. Pmps is the evening test.
 
Ok I made progress. I can't get rid of the green in comments column I guess because it's protected. I will fill it out Wednesday. I've had enough tonight. Wish it was on my tablet. I rarely use desktop.
 
I'll be doing a +3 in 20 minutes before I go to bed. Fingers crossed he is in the safe zone. Tomorrow I have to work so it will just be his amps. Hubby is home to keep an eye on him. He can't test though.
 
10:45 pm (+3) bs is 160 the lowest of the day. 3.5u given at 7:45pm. 30 minutes after feeding (canned .75 oz) This time was a little off his normal schedule. Normally gets insulin and fed same time @ 7 pm. You will have to look at posts above since still trying to get ss to work. But at least I got it linked so getting there.

Thank you all, I think I'm understanding some of this. This community is great and information is plentiful. Haven't got through it all yet but I'm more informed for his vet visit on the 1st.

I don't know what might have happened last night if I hadn't stumbled across this site. Smokey is still with me though even if his ear is battered. Again thank you all.
 
Hope Smokey has good numbers tonight and tomorrow! You're doing a great job. Keep up the good work, it does get easier! Please check in tomorrow and let us know how things are going! :):):)
 
Google Drive may be accessed online. You save files there at that site on the web, not on a PC, nor tablet, nor phone. There is the option to download, ie save on your local device (a computer, tablet, or smart phone) but that isn't mandatory.
There is an application for Google Drive so you can save files to your local device and work on them without being connected to the internet, and again, it is an option, not a requirement.
I find that application doesn't work very well on my phone and prefer to use my browser to view, create, edit, or delete files. I go to the Google site using my browser, log in to Drive, locate the desired file, open it, and work from there.
 
I am not sure where the AT SS came from but the ranges aren't quite correct. I would be happy to set up the correct SS for you and help you access it on your tablet.

I'll send you a private message so just check your inbox.
 
Sorry somehow I got on different thread. Anyway his amps was 208. I wondered how much to give. Now I know why there were no answers. I gave 2.5U as I didn't want to drop while at work. The +2 was 253. Can't test again til I get home. But looking like 3U will be his dose. Still have to fine tune yet.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I am not sure where the AT SS came from but the ranges aren't quite correct. I would be happy to set up the correct SS for you and help you access it on your tablet.

I'll send you a private message so just check your inbox.
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Sorry for being techie challenged but I don't see an inbox here. Where do I find your message?
 
Hi Paula, check next to ALERTS at the top right of the screen. It will say INBOX that's where all private conversation are. When Marje and Gracie sends you a message about setting up your SS, it will be there with a number 1 ( or more if there is more than one message ) to let you know you have mail in your mailbox.
 
You already did and we've been conversing about the spreadsheet. Look in the upper right corner to the right of your login name and you'll see "inbox". It might have some red numbers next to it telling you how ,any messages are there and should at least have a "1" because I responded to a private message you sent me in the inbox. :)

Don't worry...there is a learning curve to using the board. You'll get it quickly. For advice, etc, post here in this thread. But for things like spreadsheet assistance, we can do that via private messages in the inbox so it doesn't clog up this thread.
 
woodsywife said:
Sorry somehow I got on different thread. Anyway his amps was 208. I wondered how much to give. Now I know why there were no answers. I gave 2.5U as I didn't want to drop while at work. The +2 was 253. Can't test again til I get home. But looking like 3U will be his dose. Still have to fine tune yet.
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I think 208 is the lowest amps yet? I see him slowly dropping, in dose and levels, which is good. I like 2.5 today. Glad your husband can keep an eye out. The 253 was probably a food rise. Often that first test reflects the am meal.

For the future, we suggest new diabetics not shoot under 200 but stall. Wait 20 minutes and retest, without feeding. You want to make sure the number is rising, not falling. (Still falling would mean the insulin from the previous shot is still working). And you'd like a number 200+. Once you have data and know his patterns, you can shoot under 200. But it is a good baseline at first.
 
Ok now I'm on my phone. Didn't see the alert button until I rotated the phone to landscape. DUH!!!! I'm familiar with online forums but forget things show a little different depending on device and been using 3 of them. One not cooperating at all. Not usually this scattered, actually pretty good with computers but this weekend has been overwhelming between smokey and a family issue and husband home on vacation. I think I need to go away on vacation!
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I think 208 is the lowest amps yet? I see him slowly dropping, in dose and levels, which is good. I like 2.5 today. Glad your husband can keep an eye out. The 253 was probably a food rise. Often that first test reflects the am meal.

For the future, we suggest new diabetics not shoot under 200 but stall. Wait 20 minutes and retest, without feeding. You want to make sure the number is rising, not falling. (Still falling would mean the insulin from the previous shot is still working). And you'd like a number 200+. Once you have data and know his patterns, you can shoot under 200. But it is a good baseline at first.
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Maybe the vet is right and he is converting as she says. Yes the 208 is the lowest. Smokey isnt newly diabetic just apparantly poorly managed. In part because of mothers dementia. Before i took him he hadnt been seen by vet in over 2 years. Anyway I've learned so much here. When I took smokey a year ago. No one made sure I even knew how to give insulin. I knew being a retired nurse. But really no instructions of any kind. Just bring him in every 6 weeks for testing. Then I spoke up. But still very little instruction on ear stick. Just use needle instead of lancet and kind of scrape around. We will persevere! With all of you at our side.
 
I just want to express my thanks to @Sue and Oliver (GA) for staying with me into the wee hours during his episode, @Shiloh & Rhonda , @Sharon14 , @Shiloh & Rhonda , @Squalliesmom for trying to help me with spreadsheet and information on foods etc. To @Marje and Gracie for actually getting the ss and attaching. See below its up now. Can only do it from my phone. Calling Amazon to find it why I can't get it on kindle even after paying foe apps.

Anyways Smokey has done quite well as you can see. Even though husband claims to have no interest and kept saying "let him be he's fine just having an off day" guess who texted me every 2 hrs while I was at work today to tell what Smokey was doing if he ate or not. Guess deep down he does care enough but doesn't let on. If I missed anyone please forgive me but know I'm very grateful for your help.
 
Paula, glad to hear Smokey is settling in. You are a good bean for taking such good care of him and to know that hubby cares as much too, Smokey is two times blessed.
 
Congrats on the spreadsheet. It looks like you need to choose "Share" and then share with anyone with the link. We can't access it.

Paula, how about starting a new link on Health now that you have everything going - diet, spreadsheet. Often different people post there than here and you may get some others who have experience with Vetsulin. We'll follow you over. Put Vetsulin in the subject line.

Some husbands get into the science of this whole thing and some and and some begin to see how dependent this kitty is on their care. Either way, nice!
 
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