Had a long night.

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MeltyCat

MeltyCat

Member Since 2015
PMPS 23.4 (7:00pm)
+1 - 21
+2 - 14.7
+3 - 9.8

(this is usually where I start to get anxious)
At about +3.25 (10:45) I go test crazy.

10:45 - 6.2 (Ah! Dropping fast.)
10:55 - 5.4 (GIVE ALL THE TREATS)
11:05 - 5.8 (This is where I should have relaxed)
11:25 - 5.4 (no no no no no)
11:45 - 5.9 (Inner voice, he's been at 5 and change for over an hour and he's in great humor, it's time to stop freaking out)

AMPS this morning is 25.3,

I feel comfortable going to work on this number, I'll just make sure to have food available for him. (And probably cut out a little early to come home and check on him)

I'm going out tonight and am worried about him crashing (his readings are lower at night) and wondering if it would be prudent to skip at dose even if his PMPS is as high as it has been. I'll be gone until the AMPS time (driving home to do it).

I'm finding myself really stressed out, or maybe just exhausted. *sigh*
 
Hi Nikki,

I'm not experienced with your insulin but given what you dealt with last night, I too would be a little iffy about shooting before being gone overnight. That said it's not necessarily the right answer to withhold completely.

My sense as of current readings would be to give a reduced dose tonight so Melty has some insulin and doesn't go rocketing sky high but not enough to take the numbers too low. What that dose should be, I think will depend at least in part on your reading before you leave tonight.

Post that and hopefully someone with more Caninsulin "smarts" will chime in with better suggestions. I'll check back later to see what's happening.
 
Thanks @MrWorfMen's Mom!

I am planning on going home a bit early to test a couple of times to get an idea of where he's been at throughout the day, and will go from there. I will be home bright and early at 6:30 tomorrow morning, so as long as his pre-shot numbers tonight aren't lower than yesterday (or too much lower) I'd feel okay giving a reduced dose.

I really appreciate the input.
 
I don't give dosing advice, but I have used Caninsulin for Saoirse.

I'd suggest a cautious approach, particularly because you advise that Melty runs lower at night (as many kitties do!). A token dose is an option (hopefully other members will be able to better guide you about this). I'd suggest making sure there is plenty of food left out for Melty. Is his appetite OK? Is he prone to ketones at all?
 
I have read a lot of stuff on here lately about Ketones, and if I'm being honest I haven't tested.
I know he was tested when originally diagnosed and it came back negative, but that was over a month ago now.
His appetite has been good! Albeit, much moreso in the morning than in the evening.
 
Glad to hear Melty's appetite is good. I see from his spreadsheet that you are in the process of transitioning to wet food. I'd recommend being extra cautious with that AND Caninsulin in the mix because Melty's numbers could in theory start getting lower and lower as the transition progresses. Do you still have some of his dry food? If yes, what's the % of calories from carbs in it?

(You've got one very handsome boy there, btw, and I really like his name!)

.
 
I have his original dry food (Special Kitty - about 42%) and an alternate dry food (Orijen Cat & Kitten - 19%).
The transition to wet is going so far so good, no digestive issues, but he's not overly interested.
I've been actually feeding almost the same amount of dry food as before (now a 75% SK, 25% Orijen mix), since I'm not sure he's really getting anything out of the little bit of wet he does eat.

Depending on his numbers at PMPS tonight, I might leave extra food out, and shoot at 1.5u.

Hah, Thanks! His name is actually Junior, but my boyfriend's (now) four year old started calling him Melty because he "Melted" when he laid down. (Not so much anymore) But it just stuck, and he seems to love it.

The kitty in your picture is beautiful as well :)
 
Just in case you don't get any replies from anyone else, if you do choose to give insulin (and 1.0 IU might be safer than 1.5) I'd be inclined to leave out the higher carb food while you're unable to monitor Melty. He's getting the steep, fast drops typical of Caninsulin and to be safe it would be better to have higher carb food available to him overnight.

Saoirse wasn't ketone-prone so any time I could not monitor or when I was extra-worried about her I tended to skip doses - in keeping with the oft-quoted maxim here of "better too high for a day than too low for a minute" (but that does come with the caveat about ketones).

For future reference, you can check urine ketone levels at home using Ketodiastix or similar test strips.
 
MeltyCat....I am also Canadian as we know the issues with getting a low carb kibble/food up here. The U.S. has more options than we do when it comes to food, especially kibbles lower in carbs.

I also know the fear of staying up all night, trying to watch for drops. It's truly fear inducing, isn't it?

I'm also not an expert in anything here especially, Caninsulin and hope that more experienced members with that form of insulin will chime in with their expertise soon.

But, it sounds like overnight (as is the case for most of us) is the worst as kitty's BG levels are usually lower. I'd leave down whatever food kitty will eat and reduce the dose at night so that you can sleep with some reassurance instead of being up all night, worried. Remember that it's better for them to be a bit higher than too low. It takes a longer time for damage to be done in cats from higher blood sugars than it does humans. And, honestly...yes...it can be very worrisome to have all of this info and knowing what "could happen".

Is there any way to call your vet and get his/her advice? I'd do that during the daytime hours so that you're not panicked at night. Knowing what numbers your cat is at pre-shot, and what the drop is and how fast, will likely tell your vet what level to shoot at or not and give you guidelines as to when not to shoot, how much or how little to give. Better to get that set in your mind so that you know what to do rather than facing a crisis late at night and not knowing where to go or who to call and losing sleep when you have to work all day.

We all know this fear!!! :bighug: And, by the way, I'm editing to add...have you thought about possibly talking to your vet about the idea of switching to a more level form of insulin like Lantus/Levemir that doesn't seem to produce those sharp drops and steep curves down and back up again? (Someone with knowledge of the insulins will hopefully correct me where I'm wrong).
 
Since his levels have been particularly high in his upswings, I don't know if I'd feel better or worse checking for Ketones. Seems like it never ends...one more thing to monitor, one more thing to worry about. :S

I came home from work a little early and tested him. Up to 26 again at +7, which is even higher than his AMPS. Mind you, he was really stressed about the test, which is unusual for him, so I don't know if maybe that played into it at all. I'll try again in about and hour after some serious snuggly reading time with him.

Now, I've checked his food dish, and he hasn't finished his morning portion (usually the bowl is licked clean by the time I get home. Mind you, I am home quite early today so that could be nothing). With levels this high, I'm not really concerned about giving him insulin, unless higher levels mean a steeper drop? The fear of the drop is really all encompassing.

I actually spoke with my vet the other day and he said if his levels don't even out, we may have to look at switching insulin. It is a small comfort that his mindset is similar to the folks here.
 
Well, I have hypoglycaemia and it can feel pretty bad when it happens so, even just a drop from normal levels, even when not in hypo land, I can feel pretty cruddy too.

I'd say that giving your vet a call today (before he/she leaves for the day) might be the peace of mind that you need right now. And, it might be wise to "start over" by asking your vet if he/she can call your pharmacist with a prescription for a low dose start on Lantus/Levemir so that you're not going through these types of nights and days. Remember that a lot of things are "patient driven"...meaning that if YOU are concerned and losing sleep, you'll likely kick-start him into thinking about a switch. It's really no skin off of his nose to call in a script to a local pharmacy.

I believe, if I'm not mistaken that the starting dose on Lantus is about .5 to 1U. It might give you peace of mind rather than these steep rises and drops??? Perhaps a chat is worth that call to put your mind at ease? The fact that you've already spoken to him the other day, and are still concerned might be enough for him to make the switch now???

Just my 2 cents worth and hopefully, others will chime in but, you know what? It's YOUR life too and while we love our pets silly, we also need sleep and rest and peace of mind. These terrors and up all night, having to leave work etc., are lowering the quality of YOUR life as well as possibly putting your kitty's life in danger (though, not really because you're sacrificing your own sleep and life to keep a close eye on him and act properly if there is danger). This doesn't need to go on! It's not the vet's sleep that is being disturbed or his job by this. :bighug:

By the way, I'm editing to add that I've yet to be successful in catching a litter box trip so, trying to catch urine on a ketostix (while some people have a lot of success) just hasn't been in my cards to get yet either. :(
 
@Louellen

It's like you read my mind. I actually did give him a call and he's saying to go ahead and shoot at 1.5 as long as his BG isn't lower than normal.

I'd do anything for Melty. I'm generally a fairly anxious person as is, but I would be devastated if I didn't do the best for him that I can. I'd call him my spirit animal if it didn't sound so ridiculous, hehe.
 
I'm an anxious person as well over things like this so, I get where you are coming from wholeheartedly. :bighug:

I am glad that you got a call in and hopefully, that's putting your mind a little more at ease (I know nothing totally does it) but, at the least, you have guidelines to go by from your vet. :)

I think you've likely seen how low Melty can go (that's not to say that food amounts won't change that as you go) but, at the least, you have some measure by which to follow things for now.

If this helps, I just put a call into the covering vet for my vet who is off on vacation for 3 weeks now as I wasn't certain what was going on with Morrigan either (she's giving me curve ball numbers out of the blue and late at night too).
She said that anything 10 and under...do NOT shoot and do NOT shoot if they're not eating or not eating as usual.
Between 10 and 11 on our scale, feed, shoot and re-test, leaving food out through the night. But, that is on Lantus so, other members might have a better guide as to the type of insulin you are using and will likely chime in when the work day is done as most don't settle down to check these boards until the late afternoon/evening hours.

IF you have a number that you're panicking about...PLEASE don't be afraid to mark your post (left hand side of the title box marked "prefix" with a drop-down menu) as "911". Members will respond to that more quickly as they look for those types of situations FIRST. You'll get far more answers that way and much more quickly.

So, hope you get a nap in to replenish some of that sleep loss. :rolleyes: :smuggrin: Try hard to relax as much as you can...though I know the mind sometimes just doesn't shut down easily.

:bighug:
 
@Louellen

Thanks for all of the support! It is really helping.

It always sets my mind at ease to talk to the vet. I don't like to alter the insulin dose without talking to him to see if he what he thinks. Luckily, he is over the moon with everything that Melty and I have been doing and was very re-assuring. He e-mails every few days to check in if I haven't brought anything to his attention (which honestly, isn't often....I usually am stressing over some thing or another).

Knowing whether it's safe to shoot normally isn't a problem. His BG is always hugely high at shot time, but then he'll swing low very fast. I've got tonight sorted to the point where I'll be able to sleep and not think about it too too much (the wondering will happen, can't really help it haha), so that's the important part.

Melty is in great spirits, even though his BG is still high. He's loving the Orijen dry food, but has no idea what to do with the wet food. Going to try Salmon tonight to see if I can entice him with a little more fishy flavor.

Thanks for the tip on the 911 mark. I will try not to abuse it ;)
 
I'm late getting back but you got some advice from your vet and that was an excellent idea. I don't think there are too many Caninsulin users here anymore so that makes it a little more difficult to get experienced advice from the board.
Hope you enjoyed your evening away and Melty (aka Junior) gives you a great greeting on your arrival home.
 
Hi Nikki,

Checking in to see how yourself and Melty got on.

BTW, I'm similar to yourself and @Louellen in that I have anxiety issues. It can make things harder at times when caring for a sugarkitty, but the vigilance that comes with the anxiety can help keep kitty safe.

With regard to Melty's wet food transition, I strongly recommend getting mid-cycle tests every day (even if it's only the evening cycle at, say, +3) to catch any downward trends early. Melty's insulin needs might change dramatically - and possibly very quickly - as the proportion of dry food in his diet reduces.
 
Now here comes the tricky part. If he stays relatively low...do I shoot tonight??
He always tends to be lower at night.

I have noticed a huge drop in numbers since getting more wet food into his diet.
Where he previously didn't even hit the good numbers, now he is hitting them and resting in the blue for hours at a time!

He is a dream to test, so getting a test (or three) during his evening cycle to make sure he doesn't drop too low as he gets more and more wet food, won't be a problem at all. :)
 
Glad to hear that you got over the hump OK, Nikki.

Melty's numbers have improved! Definitely keep a very close eye on him. It's great that you're home-testing (and that Melty's so easy to test!). Saoirse legged it down the dosing scale when she transitioned from the dry carp the diagnosing vet put her on (Hill's w/d dry) to wet food. She was on 3IU Caninsulin BID at the start, and I had to stop giving her Caninsulin within the week because it was too harsh for her. She still needed treatment, though. She spent a few months on Lantus after that before becoming diet-controlled.
 
So just tested and he's at 18.1. I feel safe shooting as I can monitor fairly late if necessary.

Anyone think shooting at full dose is a bad idea?
 
Melty's getting really precipitous drops, you're transitioning food, he runs lower at night, and that's the lowest preshot reading he's had thus far. If he were mine, I'd reduce the dose and monitor very carefully anyway.
 
:DBoy you are getting some beautiful numbers there. YIPPEE!!

What looks encouraging to me, albeit an inexperienced eye, is that even though you gave a reduced dose the other night and he was in the red the following morning, he is now surfing along nicely in the blues mid cycle. Oh to know what his numbers were the other night on the 1.5u. Diet is no doubt having a big effect but you might also be seeing a little more pancreas function too because today's numbers are so good.

I think I might be inclined to reduce to the 1.5u again and see what his numbers look like post shot on that dose.

You have lots and lots of readings but things are moving quickly now so for what it's worth I think it's better to be too conservative than too aggressive until you can see exactly what each dose does for him. That will also give you some data to see what that dose does to his numbers for future reference.
 
I can monitor until about +5 with no issues, and am more than willing to stay up later if he's too low.
 
That's great. If you're able to monitor for the full cycle, then 1.5IU should be OK. Presumably you've got your hypo kit ready.

If his AMPS is lower again in the morning, I'd consider tapering the dose further. Since Caninsulin is an in-out insulin, it's a little more flexible than the likes of Lantus and Levemir because you aren't dealing with a depot (although there can be some carryover from the previous dose).
 
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