George's Ear Pricks and Numbers

Nisha & George

Nisha & George

Member
Hi!
I'm still new to the msg board and have already had so much help in the welcome section of the Forum. I have a few questions about his ear pricks and his numbers. I am in Canada so my spreadsheet is in the world format and I'm a little confused on the colour coding and what number I am aiming for him to be at. Hes currently on 2.0 Units of ProZinc. Yesterday (Feb 15/25) he had an all time low of 8.8 mmol at 3:30pm EST (Woohoo?) his numbers are usually pretty consistently in the 18-29 mmol range. So I was definitely happy about this, but I'm not 100% sure that is a good number or not. If I remember correctly my old vet said we were aiming for 10-12 mmol.... but I'm not sure if I remember that correctly because they've said one thing and turned around and claimed they've said something else. His PMPS (7:45pm EST) that same day was 19.5 mmol. What is a good range for George to be in? His numbers today (Feb 16, 25) AMPS (7:45am EST) was 23.4 mmol and then at 12pm EST I tested him again 15.9 mmol. I'm seeing a slow reduction but, again, not sure what my aim is. I haven't done a curve on him yet because I'm still getting him used to the pricks. He's squirmy and DOES NOT like it. He's not violent and doesn't try to bite or scratch, he just backs away to a stop I can't hold him anymore. I did watch a video on here, I think, that showed someone using a towel to wrap their kitty and distract them with treats in a bowl... I'm wondering if I'm going to have to resort to this. that being said he is SUPER wiggly. He might just wiggle his way out the back of the towel. I'm going to test him at 3/330ish again today to compare yesterdays numbers with today. I feel so bad for my baby. I've had to re-prick him a few times because it was the wrong spot or he just got away. I feel bad but also think i kind of need to be ruthless about this for his own good. Thoughts? Comments? Concerns?
Thanks in advance!!
Nisha & George
 
Hi Nisha and George! Welcome to the ProZinc forum! I’m glad you posted on this ProZinc forum. I don’t always have time to get over to the Health forum- although I do at times. Let me look at George’s spreadsheet. I have to do a lot of conversions from the world numbers to the U.S. number that we use on this Board. So it just takes a minute. I will look and come back and comment.
 
And yes! That 158 blue number you had is a beautiful number compared to the others I see on his spreadsheet. Don’t increase his dose yet. Hold at 2 units and try to get as many tests as you can so we can see what is happening. Let me know what troubles you are having with testing. Are you giving him a treat with every test — whether you get blood or not? Are you doing it in the same place each time? What are you using for treats?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
And yes! That 158 blue number you had is a beautiful number compared to the others I see on his spreadsheet. Don’t increase his dose yet. Hold at 2 units and try to get as many tests as you can so we can see what is happening. Let me know what troubles you are having with testing. Are you giving him a treat with every test — whether you get blood or not? Are you doing it in the same place each time? What are you using for treats?
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The first time I did the ear prick I was giving him freezed dried turkey, chicken or beef liver. He seemed agreeable with that. The next time I tried he wiggled away even with treats. He'd come up, take the treat then back off again. I tried putting some wet food on a lucky mat (rigged rubber mat to slow down the eating) and that has seemed to help, as long as I get the sample on the first or second prick. I give him a treat after and lots of praise and pets. I try to get the same place each time but don't always hit it. I'm aiming for the "sweet spot" last couple of tests I've gotten the spot but my reader was saying that I had a used test strip (I did not, i must have gotten blood on it before the machine was ready). Today I tried to test every 2 or 3 hours. I feel like if I did it every hour I'd be torturing his poor ear. Sometimes he won't let me wipe/hold the cotton pad on his ear to stop the bleeding so he gets a smear of blood. I try to clean it up with warm water but he wiggles away. Thinks I'm gonna prick him again. I've also noticed he's had some weight loss and have decided to increase his calories based on a calorie calculator... My old vet said 220 cals but he's a big cat and the calculator says he should be on 300 cals. I've only increase the calories today. I'm not sure how that will effect his insulin needs. He's only 5. Poor guy.
 
You are doing a wonderful thing to help him. I am proud of you for taking this on. It can take a while to get into a routine and for your kitty to get used to everything. I felt like a complete failure when first testing and I cried a lot and told myself that I would never be able to do it. Give yourself and George some time. There will be days that don’t go well at all and you feel like giving up. Don’t give up. There will be better days and you will succeed. You can do this.
 
About the numbers… in the beginning, your goal will be to keep the nadirs between 90 and 150. We can do better than that, but it’s for the beginning if we are going to follow the Start Low Go Slow dosing protocol.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
You are doing a wonderful thing to help him. I am proud of you for taking this on. It can take a while to get into a routine and for your kitty to get used to everything. I felt like a complete failure when first testing and I cried a lot and told myself that I would never be able to do it. Give yourself and George some time. There will be days that don’t go well at all and you feel like giving up. Don’t give up. There will be better days and you will succeed. You can do this.
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Yes he was diagnosed just before Christmas. It's all so overwhelming. It's exhausting and frustrating and leaves me feeling defeated and full of dread. And then I remember how much I love him and I feel super guilty for feeling like I do. Rinse and repeat. His food is expensive and the vet trips have been expensive. I'm looking for a new vet, don't trust the one I have, and the one I'm looking at doesn't do curve testing in hospital at all. They're a cat centred hospital but they're also more expensive than my current vet. I'm on social assistance with a part time job. I just want him to be okay.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
About the numbers… in the beginning, your goal will be to keep the nadirs between 90 and 150. We can do better than that, but it’s for the beginning if we are going to follow the Start Low Go Slow dosing protocol.
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Thanks. My chart let's me switch from US to WORLD so 90-150 would be in the 5.5-11 range (I think) this is good to know. Based on my testing today there does seem to be a trend. He started the day with 23, then dropped to 15, up to 16, then 17, 18 and finished the day at 10pm with 19.
 
Nisha said:
Yes he was diagnosed just before Christmas. It's all so overwhelming. It's exhausting and frustrating and leaves me feeling defeated and full of dread. And then I remember how much I love him and I feel super guilty for feeling like I do. Rinse and repeat. His food is expensive and the vet trips have been expensive. I'm looking for a new vet, don't trust the one I have, and the one I'm looking at doesn't do curve testing in hospital at all. They're a cat centred hospital but they're also more expensive than my current vet. I'm on social assistance with a part time job. I just want him to be okay.
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We can really help you here. You don’t need the vet or trips to the vet to manage his diabetes. You will be able to do your own curves at home with far less stress on George and not much expense to yourself (just test strips.). The blood glucose (BG) numbers will be more accurate because they won’t be elevated by the stress of being at the vet. Save your money for other things that you actually may need a vet. Don’t feel guilty. It IS very overwhelming at first. It’s very exhausting at times too. It’s not because you don’t love him that you feel this way… it’s because you do love him that you feel these things and that is nothing to feel ashamed of or guilty about. You want to do the very best for him and you feel like you are not. It’s normal — and we all felt that in the beginning. You’ve made a great start and you are in a good place.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
We can really help you here. You don’t need the vet or trips to the vet to manage his diabetes. You will be able to do your own curves at home with far less stress on George and not much expense to yourself (just test strips.). The blood glucose (BG) numbers will be more accurate because they won’t be elevated by the stress of being at the vet. Save your money for other things that you actually may need a vet. Don’t feel guilty. It IS very overwhelming at first. It’s very exhausting at times too. It’s not because you don’t love him that you feel this way… it’s because you do love him that you feel these things and that is nothing to feel ashamed of or guilty about. You want to do the very best for him and you feel like you are not. It’s normal — and we all felt that in the beginning. You’ve made a great start and you are in a good place.
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Thank you so much for your kind and supportive words. It means alot to know I'm not alone both in how I feel but also in the struggles. How will I know when I need to adjust his insulin? How do I go about doing that?
 
Nisha said:
Thanks. My chart let's me switch from US to WORLD so 90-150 would be in the 5.5-11 range (I think) this is good to know. Based on my testing today there does seem to be a trend. He started the day with 23, then dropped to 15, up to 16, then 17, 18 and finished the day at 10pm with 19.[/QUOTE
You did great to get all those tests! He had a pretty typical curve for a cat who hasn’t been on ProZinc that long.
To convert between the world and US numbers you either divide or multiply by 18. I have to multiply all the world numbers by 18 to get to my U.S. number. It works the other way (dividing by 18) when you convert U.S. numbers back to World numbers. Most times the spreadsheet will convert it for me, but if any extra data is written in a cell other than a number it messes up the U.S. spreadsheet for me and I have to manually convert it.
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Nisha said:
Thank you so much for your kind and supportive words. It means alot to know I'm not alone both in how I feel but also in the struggles. How will I know when I need to adjust his insulin? How do I go about doing that?
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Well, right now, we will hold this dose at 2 units for a total of 7 days (14 cycles) unless of course he drops below 90 and earns a reduction (which looks unlikely at this point.). After 7 days, we will increase his dose to 2.25 units and go from there.

I was going to ask how he came to increase from 1 to 2 units so quickly.
 
He doesn’t have a history of DKA or ketones does he? It would make a difference on my dosing recommendations if he did. I hope not, but I have not read your introductory posts on the health forum so I don’t know.
 
So. Vet told me to start him on 0.5. so I did. 3 weeks later he had his curve. They told me to give him 1 after that. 4 weeks go by he goes back in for another curve. They say to increase so I confirm 1.5? They say no, we started him in one and told you to increase to 2. Not what they told me. At all. They gaslit me so much that day.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
He doesn’t have a history of DKA or ketones does he? It would make a difference on my dosing recommendations if he did. I hope not, but I have not read your introductory posts on the health forum so I don’t know.
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Not that I was told. I brought him in for excessive urination thinking he had a UTI. They did a urinalysis that showed glucose in his urine and asked to do a blood test. They said his glucose was was too high in his blood test and that he needed low carb wet food and insulin
 
Nisha said:
So. Vet told me to start him on 0.5. so I did. 3 weeks later he had his curve. They told me to give him 1 after that. 4 weeks go by he goes back in for another curve. They say to increase so I confirm 1.5? They say no, we started him in one and told you to increase to 2. Not what they told me. At all. They gaslit me so much that day.
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I understand. That is so frustrating. I’m sorry you’ve had trouble with the vets. :bighug:
 
Nisha said:
Not that I was told. I brought him in for excessive urination thinking he had a UTI. They did a urinalysis that showed glucose in his urine and asked to do a blood test. They said his glucose was was too high in his blood test and that he needed low carb wet food and insulin
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So did they do a fructosamine test to diagnose him or just a spot glucose reading? A fructosamine would give you a number that is an average of his BG over a period of 2-3 weeks. I don’t know if you have a copy of his bloodwork. At least they told you to put him on low carb food. That was good advice. So many vets try to sell clients food that is supposed to be for diabetics but is expensive and full of carbs.
 
You are supposed to put the test strip in the cat’s urine stream- although some people will use a ladle of some sort to catch a little urine. It can be hard to catch them “in the act” and some cats find it very irritating, but some don’t care. I bought a blood ketone meter for this reason (works like getting a BG test from the ear). A lot of people are able to use the ketostix though. I believe they buy them from Walmart. I do not know if there is a Walmart near you in your area of Ontario, but another store like that or a pharmacy may sell them. They probably can be ordered as well. Hopefully they checked for ketones at diagnosis.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
You are supposed to put the test strip in the cat’s urine stream- although some people will use a ladle of some sort to catch a little urine. It can be hard to catch them “in the act” and some cats find it very irritating, but some don’t care. I bought a blood ketone meter for this reason (works like getting a BG test from the ear). A lot of people are able to use the ketostix though. I believe they buy them from Walmart. I do not know if there is a Walmart near you in your area of Ontario, but another store like that or a pharmacy may sell them. They probably can be ordered as well. Hopefully they checked for ketones at diagnosis.
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There is a walmart just down the street from me, do you have to ask for them or are they on the shelves? I have a copy of his medical records and they say he was ketone negative. this was at initial diagnosis in dec 2024
 
Nisha said:
Is ketones a worry with his numbers this high still?
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I just worry that he could build up ketones with the pink numbers. It’s not that he definitely will have ketones because it’s very individual to the cat. Is he eating well? He needs a lot of calories and hydration (add a little water to his food unless it’s already really soupy.) We will manage the insulin. If he did have ketones we would be a little more aggressive with the increases.
 
Nisha said:
There is a walmart just down the street from me, do you have to ask for them or are they on the shelves? I have a copy of his medical records and they say he was ketone negative. this was at initial diagnosis in dec 2024
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That’s a good sign because his fructosamine levels was quite high. I am not sure about the ketostix in your area since you are in Canada and I am in the U.S. (Georgia). It looks like my local Walmart doesn’t have them in the store right now as they’re offering to ship them to me.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I just worry that he could build up ketones with the pink numbers. It’s not that he definitely will have ketones because it’s very individual to the cat. Is he eating well? He needs a lot of calories and hydration (add a little water to his food unless it’s already really soupy.) We will manage the insulin. If he did have ketones we would be a little more aggressive with the increases.
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I'll look into the ketone strips and leave them by the litter but the fact that I even caught him peeing for as long as he did when I got his diagnosed was a fluke. But I'll keep trying. I read somewhere (not sure where) that I could lock him in a room with a litter box lined with newspaper and leave him there until he pees but he hates being locked in one room. I've recently upped his calories because my old vet told me he need 220 calories per day but hes a 13 lb cat and is healthy at that weight. All the online calculators say he need 320. so I'm testing him out on 300 to see if he stops losing weight. could the low calories be causing the high numbers? He has a filtered water fountain at his disposal at all times. Hes only fed 2x a day one before his morning shot and one before his evening shot. Except a small spear on his licki mat (ridged food mat to slow down eating) to distract him when I prick his ear.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I just worry that he could build up ketones with the pink numbers. It’s not that he definitely will have ketones because it’s very individual to the cat. Is he eating well? He needs a lot of calories and hydration (add a little water to his food unless it’s already really soupy.) We will manage the insulin. If he did have ketones we would be a little more aggressive with the increases.
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I'll add some water to his breakfast and dinner from now on. but not too soupy right?
 
Nisha said:
I'll add some water to his breakfast and dinner from now on. but not too soupy right?
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It probably doesn’t need to be very soupy no.
He needs to eat more frequently than just morning and evening. Diabetic cats do much better with frequent feedings throughout the cycle as long as the food is low carb wet food. It helps stabilize the blood sugar and helps prevent steep drops in BG. Right now that might not seem important, but it will be and it’s good to establish a routine. Also, if he’s hungry (and he should be) he should eat more, especially if he’s lost weight. Diabetic cats in high numbers cannot properly utilize the food they take in so they need quite a bit of food. Food is one of the important components of keeping ketones away.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Keep in mind that these recommended caloric intake charts/calculators are for healthy cats. Diabetic cats who are not regulated need even more calories.
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I can't believe my vet didn't tell me about needing more calories than a normal cat. solidifies my want to find a new vet. I work part time so I can mostly break his feedings into portions, but there will be days where I do work and will miss a few of his feedings. Do you have a suggestion on the frequency and how many calories I should be giving him? I assume 300 isn't enough if that is what the calculator said. I'm trying very hard not to be upset about the lack of information my vat gave me.:mad:
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
It probably doesn’t need to be very soupy no.
He needs to eat more frequently than just morning and evening. Diabetic cats do much better with frequent feedings throughout the cycle as long as the food is low carb wet food. It helps stabilize the blood sugar and helps prevent steep drops in BG. Right now that might not seem important, but it will be and it’s good to establish a routine. Also, if he’s hungry (and he should be) he should eat more, especially if he’s lost weight. Diabetic cats in high numbers cannot properly utilize the food they take in so they need quite a bit of food. Food is one of the important components of keeping ketones away.
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He used to be a free feeder, I'd leave kibble out for both him and Bill. might have been part of the start of his diabetes but that's how it used to go.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Keep in mind that these recommended caloric intake charts/calculators are for healthy cats. Diabetic cats who are not regulated need even more calories.
Click to expand...
I went to the pets store today to see if I could find a cheaper option for his food. I found Hounds & Gatos chicken & liver flavour was cheaper and lower in carb count. (Online calculator says negative 0.5 %, although I'm not sure how you get a negative?) I wondered if I need to mix the new food in with the old to transition over or if I can just switch them outright?
 
Nisha said:
I can't believe my vet didn't tell me about needing more calories than a normal cat. solidifies my want to find a new vet. I work part time so I can mostly break his feedings into portions, but there will be days where I do work and will miss a few of his feedings. Do you have a suggestion on the frequency and how many calories I should be giving him? I assume 300 isn't enough if that is what the calculator said. I'm trying very hard not to be upset about the lack of information my vat gave me.:mad:
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On the days when you work, you can either leave food out for him to graze on or you can do what a lot of members here do and use an automatic feeder to dispense the small meals throughout the cycle.
 
Nisha said:
I can't believe my vet didn't tell me about needing more calories than a normal cat. solidifies my want to find a new vet. I work part time so I can mostly break his feedings into portions, but there will be days where I do work and will miss a few of his feedings. Do you have a suggestion on the frequency and how many calories I should be giving him? I assume 300 isn't enough if that is what the calculator said. I'm trying very hard not to be upset about the lack of information my vat gave me.:mad:
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I would not worry about over feeding him at this point since he is underweight. I would feed at AMPS, +2, +4 and +6. If he’s acting starving later in the cycle, I would let him have some low carb food as long as you don’t feed him for two hours prior to the PMPS (or AMPS)
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
On the days when you work, you can either leave food out for him to graze on or you can do what a lot of members here do and use an automatic feeder to dispense the small meals throughout the cycle.
Click to expand...
How fast can blood sugar change in a cat? I've finding a trend here... He seems to read in the 16's(290's?) when I get his sample in one try vs more than one try seems be to 19's (345's?)
 
Nisha said:
I went to the pets store today to see if I could find a cheaper option for his food. I found Hounds & Gatos chicken & liver flavour was cheaper and lower in carb count. (Online calculator says negative 0.5 %, although I'm not sure how you get a negative?) I wondered if I need to mix the new food in with the old to transition over or if I can just switch them outright?
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If you switch foods too quickly you may cause diarrhea. Cats are notorious for that happening. I would switch slowly by mixing in a little of the new food (or putting a dollop on top of the old food.)

I can’t really see how the carbs could be negative? That can’t be right since there are protein, fat and carbohydrates and that is it. Maybe it’s close to zero.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
If you switch foods too quickly you may cause diarrhea. Cats are notorious for that happening. I would switch slowly by mixing in a little of the new food (or putting a dollop on top of the old food.)

I can’t really see how the carbs could be negative? That can’t be right since there are protein, fat and carbohydrates and that is it. Maybe it’s close to zero.
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Its hounds & gatos brand. Chicken and liver flavour GA: 10% protein 9% crude fat 1% crude fibre 78% moisture 2.50% ash
 
Nisha said:
How fast can blood sugar change in a cat? I've finding a trend here... He seems to read in the 16's(290's?) when I get his sample in one try vs more than one try seems be to 19's (345's?)
Click to expand...
It can fluctuate a bit — but it’s most likely what we call meter variance. Unless George is getting really irritated with you? The meters are allowed to have a variance of about +/- 20 percent … so that means that you could potentially get say a 200 one time and a 240 the next even if you were testing the same drop of blood. The difference isn’t usually that extreme, but it can be.
 
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