Frustrations with vet - says TR method is wrong:(

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TanyaG

TanyaG

Member Since 2016
Hi all,

I guess I'm looking for some encouragement and perhaps some mutual understanding. I just had a really frustrating conversation with my vet who said I should never be changing the dose after 4 days. She says you only change every 10 days minimum. I told I am following the TR method and belong to this forum. I also said that I'm being safe by taking min 4 BG per day. She said im micro managing my cat and changing the dose like that is wrong, basically that TR method is wrong She's not bothered if I take BG's often and says its unnessasary. She'd basically just supports a one day curve and then random spot checks and you stick with one dose for 10 days at a time. Her and her colleague would have been shoot without knowing tinka's BG which is just crazy. I told her I'm not comfortable doing that and I want to check 4 times a day so I have data and know what she's at before shooting. She seems to think that changing dose that often on TR method means we can't reliably see what affect the insulin is having as she says lots of things can affect BG outside of food and insulin so if you change that often the body doesn't have time to adjust.

Anyways I'm obviously not going to follow her advise. But I'm wondering why she has such an issue with me changing the dose every 6-8 cycles. I told her im changing it as per TR method as Tinkas nadirs are above 200 and under 300. Prior to this I did do about 7 days as she was new to nadirs under 200. See my updated SS. My point is im not being flippent and Im working hard to do TR method as I want best chance of remission for Tinka and it's just disappointing and frustrating getting told off by my vet. She was really annoyed at me. But it's my cat and I trust this forum and feel safe in what I have been doing and posting for advise here, I'm well supported so I'd rather stick to following TR and being on this forum then just randomly sitting at a dose for 10 days while tinkas BG gets out of control and I rarely monitor. That does not seem right to me. Has anyone else had similar issues with their vets? Do vets not know about the TR method?

I'm also switching from pred (steroids) to apoquel and my understanding was she wanted Tinka weaned of pred asap as that's what she said a few days ago but now today she tells me there's no rush to get her off pred and best to get itch under control. I agree with the latter but it is affecting her BG and she just says if Tinka needs higher doses of insulin that's fine. Well that's exactly why im doing TR method becayse she us currently requiring higher insulin levels as we've seen a big increase in her BG from the steroids. She says apoquel can take a week to a month to work so Tinka is now on both apoquel and steroid for coast few days. So now I have to increase the pred again apparently till she has no itch and then maintain dose then taper slowly which will take quite a while prob like 3 weeks. So that's rather disappointing too that she'll have to be on pred a while longer. Anyways if you've read this far thanks for the support!
 
tiffmaxee said:
I'm sorry your vet is making this so difficult. For now if my cat I would nod my head, agree with her, and follow TR. once your cat is tightly controlled or in remission you can show her the ss. That's what I would do anyhow. :bighug:
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Thank you Tiff, thats is pretty much what I did just said ok sure on the phone and they have no interest in seeing my SS which is good now cause I don't want have to discuss further as I'm sticking with TR. Thats a good idea once Tinka is tightly controlled or in remission I'll show her Tinka's SS. What does your vet say about TR? Its not the first time I've had advise from her that I believe to be unsound. Wish I could work with a more supportive vet but at the end of the day I have a wonderfully supportive group here:) Thanks again!
 
Doodles & Karen said:
What you experienced is very common unfortunately. We've all become good at nodding out heads like Elise mentioned above. The pred is a factor and all you can do is try to adjust the dose like you have been. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Thanks Karen, good to know I'm not alone in this but sad to hear its all too common. Thank you for your support I really appreciate it!! :)
 
Doodles & Karen said:
I won't bore you of details with Doodles diabetes journey and multiple vets. I'm not as good at nodding my head but getting there . All I can say is this forum has saved Doodles and the vets advise before hand lets just say...was a disaster. Hang in there.
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Thanks Karen, I too struggle with nodding my head hence the frustration. Thats so encouraging to hear the forum has helped save Doodles! I've had such amazing support on here too and great advise, I feel very blessed to have found this forum and everyone on here. Makes up for the bad advise and lack of support from silly vets! Thanks for the support I appreciate it:)
 
Vets that don't know TR and aren't used to clients home testing are often worried about TR. I got past it with my vet by giving him a copy of the protocol (there's a copy in the TR sticky) and having an earnest conversation. I explained that I'd done my research and that I believed that TR was the best chance for remission and that I felt I could do it safely because I was home testing and that I really didn't have a choice because I believed it was best for my cat. He got on board after a few weeks and left the diabetes to me - mind you he was interested in our spreadsheet so he got to see for himself that it was safe. I think it helps vets to see that what you're doing is based on a study not just on the say so of some 'crazy internet cat people'.

If I needed to see someone other than his regular vet I adopted the nod and smile (through gritted teeth) routine.
 
Hi Tanya,
I've changed vets so many times over the years, it's not even funny... all because they gave me the same kind of lectures and weren't open to learning anything new. Fortunately, I have FINALLY found a great vet who works with me. I have found that a lot of vets don't really know a lot about the daily management of diabetes. I swear, they must spend 5 minutes on this in Vet school. I know that vets need to know a LOT of things about a LOT of things, but diabetes management seems to slip by the wayside for a lot of vets I've met.

Flame had horrible diarrhea, non stop 8 years ago for months and months on end. The only thing the vets told me was... Oh, he must have IBD, maybe he has intestinal lymphoma, one even told me he might have FIP and was going to die! They gave me a bag of DRY Hills ZD food, a prescription for predinisone and Flagyl and sent me on my way. A few months later, due to this treatment, Flame became diabetic.

The vet that was treating him wanted to up his dose to 3 units because of 1 day of bad numbers, told me not to test so much also, and that raw food would kill my cat !! Fortunately, I found the FDMB because I'm convinced that dose would have just about killed him. A kind member nearby came and showed me how to test and give insulin, coached me, got me to get him off that horrible food and onto high quality, low carb food and guess what? The diarrhea was caused by a food allergy to grains and gluten the WHOLE time!! A week after I changed his food, his diarrhea stopped and never came back!
I came here daily to post and get advice and support and Flame went OTJ in 3 months that time!!
This board saved Flame's life!!

He is back on the juice now because of Pred use due to asthma so his diabetes came back.

So, no you are not alone. I think many of us have had bad experiences with vets. You are correct, Tinka is your cat.. you know your cat better than anyone. If necessary, you may have to change vets. I did, many times, until I found one I trusted. Bottom line is trust yourself and I believe with all my heart you can trust the people here! Keep doing what you're doing! You are a good mama!!
 
When Max started the dance I wasn't going to test. Then one day my vet handed me the needle while in his office and he created a monster tester. I sent him a weekly ss at first. Soon we didn't discuss insulin dosing at all with all Max's other issues. He showed his students that rotated through his office my ss. When I lost Max, not to diabetes, he sent me a note that nobody in his 30+ years of practice did as well at managing diabetes as I did. He's a rare bird, a boarded internal medicine vet without a big head or attitude. He's spoiled me should he retire as he and I were partners in Max's care.
 
Vyktors Mum said:
Vets that don't know TR and aren't used to clients home testing are often worried about TR. I got past it with my vet by giving him a copy of the protocol (there's a copy in the TR sticky) and having an earnest conversation. I explained that I'd done my research and that I believed that TR was the best chance for remission and that I felt I could do it safely because I was home testing and that I really didn't have a choice because I believed it was best for my cat. He got on board after a few weeks and left the diabetes to me - mind you he was interested in our spreadsheet so he got to see for himself that it was safe. I think it helps vets to see that what you're doing is based on a study not just on the say so of some 'crazy internet cat people'.

If I needed to see someone other than his regular vet I adopted the nod and smile (through gritted teeth) routine.
Click to expand...
Thank you for sharing your journey! Maybe I will try this with my vet in the near future. She was very adament on the phone today bascially telling me what I'm doing is stupid, saying I appreciate your research but its wrong and she hasn't even seen it. Hopefully a study will help her see that's its not just my own research but its based on studies. For today though I did the over the phone "sure ok" through gritted teeth too and now I'm going to keep doing what I was doing with TR ;) Good to know I'm not alone in this seems all to common. Thanks for the advise and encouragement!
 
Donna and Flame said:
Hi Tanya,
I've changed vets so many times over the years, it's not even funny... all because they gave me the same kind of lectures and weren't open to learning anything new. Fortunately, I have FINALLY found a great vet who works with me. I have found that a lot of vets don't really know a lot about the daily management of diabetes. I swear, they must spend 5 minutes on this in Vet school. I know that vets need to know a LOT of things about a LOT of things, but diabetes management seems to slip by the wayside for a lot of vets I've met.

Flame had horrible diarrhea, non stop 8 years ago for months and months on end. The only thing the vets told me was... Oh, he must have IBD, maybe he has intestinal lymphoma, one even told me he might have FIP and was going to die! They gave me a bag of DRY Hills ZD food, a prescription for predinisone and Flagyl and sent me on my way. A few months later, due to this treatment, Flame became diabetic.

The vet that was treating him wanted to up his dose to 3 units because of 1 day of bad numbers, told me not to test so much also, and that raw food would kill my cat !! Fortunately, I found the FDMB because I'm convinced that dose would have just about killed him. A kind member nearby came and showed me how to test and give insulin, coached me, got me to get him off that horrible food and onto high quality, low carb food and guess what? The diarrhea was caused by a food allergy to grains and gluten the WHOLE time!! A week after I changed his food, his diarrhea stopped and never came back!
I came here daily to post and get advice and support and Flame went OTJ in 3 months that time!!
This board saved Flame's life!!

He is back on the juice now because of Pred use due to asthma so his diabetes came back.

So, no you are not alone. I think many of us have had bad experiences with vets. You are correct, Tinka is your cat.. you know your cat better than anyone. If necessary, you may have to change vets. I did, many times, until I found one I trusted. Bottom line is trust yourself and I believe with all my heart you can trust the people here! Keep doing what you're doing! You are a good mama!!
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Wow Donna what an amazing journey you have had, made me teary just reading about it and how members on here came to coach and help you, its just so wonderful to have such caring folk on here! So wonderful to here how Flame has improved with diet changes and following advise on here. Tink is now on a raw food diet too and is loving it and picking up weight and her coat is shiny etc. Just need to figure out what is flaring the skin allergies. She was on science plan and royal canine in the past too. I'm convinced that and continuous vaccines and dewormers and pred have weaked her immune system. For now i'm using pred but hoping the apoquel will be effective on its on in the next few weeks. But I'd love to find a better vet, but we literally have one clinic where I live so I'd need to travel about an hour and a half to the nearest city. I'm looking there to find a good vet thats a vet dermatologist too and can do environmental and food allergy tests. Not sure how they'll be but I can only keep trying to find someone good and that is supportive of TR. Right now I'm trying to do find a novel raw food so I can try an elimination diet with tinka to see what foods she's allergic too. She's currently on rabbit and pork, nothing else added just protein, meat and bone, but I need a single protein so looking into that. Before she was on canned and before that kibble. So wondeful to hear you've found a great vet who works with you thats encouraging to hear there are some out there! So grateful for this forum too and so great to hear Flames journey on here!
 
tiffmaxee said:
When Max started the dance I wasn't going to test. Then one day my vet handed me the needle while in his office and he created a monster tester. I sent him a weekly ss at first. Soon we didn't discuss insulin dosing at all with all Max's other issues. He showed his students that rotated through his office my ss. When I lost Max, not to diabetes, he sent me a note that nobody in his 30+ years of practice did as well at managing diabetes as I did. He's a rare bird, a boarded internal medicine vet without a big head or attitude. He's spoiled me should he retire as he and I were partners in Max's care.
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Thanks for sharing your journey with Max:) Thats so awesome he used your SS to show others and that he gave you that great feedback. What a rare and wonderful find, great to hear there are some open minded and really caring vets out there! Hoping a can find one like this in the future too;) But either way if I don't I'm blessed that have you all on here, best support, thank you all!!
 
You are Tinka's caregriver 24/7 and you know Tinka better than anyone else so YOU have to be comfortable with how you handle the situation. If this were my vet, I'd ask her one question. Would she give insulin to a baby without first checking to make sure it was safe to do so? Anyone with any logic would never blindly dose a child with insulin and your cat is basically just that...the equivalent of a baby who needs insulin. My personal gauge of a medical professional's "expertise" is whether they dictate orders and refuse to consider other options or will work with you in partnership and in your case, your vet seems to think her way is the only way. How many diabetic cats has she treated/is she treating now? Most don't have that many and this isn't a one size fits all disease. I agree with Elise....simply nod and carry on as you deem appropriate. What you do at home is entirely up to you. In most cases, your vet is not going to be available 24/7 to deal with any emergencies that might occur as a result of her chosen method of treatment.

I am lucky to have found a vet who immediately had me testing but she didn't think I needed to test nearly as much as I do and I am not as test happy as some folks. I have a rare cat who has IAA which is a high dose condition and my vet had never faced that challenge before. A consult with a so called specialist in Texas also did nothing to improve the situation. Thanks to FDMB, our recent yearly vet visit got kudos from my vet as I have managed to get my girl down to 5.25u from a high of 16u twice daily and I am still hopeful she may drop a little more. In short, my vet has come to appreciate that my somewhat customized method keeps my girl safe and has lowered her insulin requirements by 2/3s.
 
You are doing an awesome job taking care of Tinka. Trust your gut about what's best for your sweet kitty and stick to your guns with the vet. The folks here are amazing.
Liz
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
You are Tinka's caregriver 24/7 and you know Tinka better than anyone else so YOU have to be comfortable with how you handle the situation. If this were my vet, I'd ask her one question. Would she give insulin to a baby without first checking to make sure it was safe to do so? Anyone with any logic would never blindly dose a child with insulin and your cat is basically just that...the equivalent of a baby who needs insulin. My personal gauge of a medical professional's "expertise" is whether they dictate orders and refuse to consider other options or will work with you in partnership and in your case, your vet seems to think her way is the only way. How many diabetic cats has she treated/is she treating now? Most don't have that many and this isn't a one size fits all disease. I agree with Elise....simply nod and carry on as you deem appropriate. What you do at home is entirely up to you. In most cases, your vet is not going to be available 24/7 to deal with any emergencies that might occur as a result of her chosen method of treatment.

I am lucky to have found a vet who immediately had me testing but she didn't think I needed to test nearly as much as I do and I am not as test happy as some folks. I have a rare cat who has IAA which is a high dose condition and my vet had never faced that challenge before. A consult with a so called specialist in Texas also did nothing to improve the situation. Thanks to FDMB, our recent yearly vet visit got kudos from my vet as I have managed to get my girl down to 5.25u from a high of 16u twice daily and I am still hopeful she may drop a little more. In short, my vet has come to appreciate that my somewhat customized method keeps my girl safe and has lowered her insulin requirements by 2/3s.
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Thanks so much for the encouragement I really appreciate it! I agree unfortunately my vet seems to have a its her way or the high way approach, but as you said and I agree its my cat and how I dose at home is entirely up to me. Thanks for sharing your journey, its so wonderul to hear of your girl's improvements and that how vet has come to appreciate what you're doing thats so great!
 
Anne & Zener GA said:
You are doing an awesome job taking care of Tinka. Trust your gut about what's best for your sweet kitty and stick to your guns with the vet. The folks here are amazing.
Liz
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Thank you Liz I appreciate the support! Gona stick with my gut as I've been really pleased how things are going so far and amazed by the wonderful support and knowledge from everyone on here! Sucks to not have a supportive vet but I'm so grateful to have you all on this group and I feel confident that Tinka and I are both in good hands:)
 
Add me to the "nod head and smile" brigade!! We're on vet #5 due to the stupidity and hardheadedness of the vets around here....and she's over an hour away!!!

She's not familiar with TR either, and still thinks China would do better if I'd just feed "this special diabetic cat food they sell there", but I just say something like "I'll think about it" and come straight back here and listen to the real professionals!!

China has never been back to a vet for anything to do with her diabetes since we got the diagnosis (vet#1) and I found a vet willing to give me the script for Lantus (vet#3) . Her current vet knows she's diabetic (of course) and has done several dentals and nursed China through a bad URI, but when it comes to the diabetes, I don't want or seek out her approval or advice

ETA...I don't know how much "better" China could be doing other than going into remission!
 
Doodles & Karen said:
What you experienced is very common unfortunately. We've all become good at nodding out heads like Elise mentioned above. The pred is a factor and all you can do is try to adjust the dose like you have been. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...

I think my journey with my truly wonderful vet, is a little unusual. She urged me to home test, practically insisted that I do it. When I found this group and told her about it she was quiet. I showed her some pertinent information about TR, and she was interested. Since then, when she or I disagree with one another, the disagreeing one sometimes uses the enigmatic smile and quiet head nodding option. Mutual respect has saved us from what so many others here have gone through.
 
Thanks so much everyone its great to know I'm not alone in experiencing this and I'm really grateful to have all your support on this group, you all are an incredibly blessing! Thanks for all you
Chris & China said:
Add me to the "nod head and smile" brigade!! We're on vet #5 due to the stupidity and hardheadedness of the vets around here....and she's over an hour away!!!

She's not familiar with TR either, and still thinks China would do better if I'd just feed "this special diabetic cat food they sell there", but I just say something like "I'll think about it" and come straight back here and listen to the real professionals!!

China has never been back to a vet for anything to do with her diabetes since we got the diagnosis (vet#1) and I found a vet willing to give me the script for Lantus (vet#3) . Her current vet knows she's diabetic (of course) and has done several dentals and nursed China through a bad URI, but when it comes to the diabetes, I don't want or seek out her approval or advice

ETA...I don't know how much "better" China could be doing other than going into remission!
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Thanks for sharing Chris, sounds like you have had quite the journey too!! At least we're not alone in this. I wont be taking diabetic advise from vet any longer either. I'll maybe show her tinka's SS at a later date to show her Tinka's success. But if she doesn't agree that fine i'm not going to be pushed into doing something I know is wrong. I want my baby safe and I feel very safe on this group and doing TR. You are one of the many people who have helped us from day one and I'm so grateful to you all!
 
Thanks so much everyone its great to know I'm not alone in experiencing this and I'm really grateful to have all your support on this group, you all are an incredibly blessing! Thanks for all you do, Tinka and I really appreciate it!
bighug.gif
 
I'm late to the party, but I have to share my story. When Cinco was diagnosed, I knew nothing about FD. The vet that was treating him taught us how to give insulin and said to bring him back in a week for a curve. That went on for a couple of weeks, with her increasing the dose each time. Then Cinco got DKA and was very, very sick. The vet wanted to euthanize him, but he got stabilized and we brought him home. We struggled with his issues - he was so weak he couldn't get up to go to the lb and had urine scald on both his back legs. One day after a vet visit, where she again urged euthanization, we gave him his insulin and left for our bowling league. On the way there we talked about it and agreed that we would let him go the next day. When we got home, he was standing up in his cage and meowing! We took that as a sign he wanted to fight. A friend told me about her daughter and how she'd found this wonderful website full of knowledgeable, caring people who had helped her save her cat. The daughter, whose cat had crossed due to CKD, sent me her meter and supplies and told me how to do the spreadsheet, etc. I joined up and started following the advice I received here, and Cinco not only got better, but he went OTJ in a couple of months! I switched vets to UC Davis, the #1 vet school in the country, and went round and round with the Internal Medicine vet about how I was testing too much and letting him get too low. I managed to get an appointment with Dr. Richard Nelson, who at that time was the head of the department. He is a noted endocrinologist that does a lot of research on diabetes in cats and dogs (and he is acquainted with Jaque Rand, one of the authors of TR). He didn't seem many patients, in fact I think Cinco was his last before he retired. He examined Cinco, looked at the SS and told me I was doing a great job and to keep doing what I was doing. I made him tell the IM that, and although I could tell she disagreed, she never gave me a hard time again. I switched Cinco to another vet, anyway, who respects me and how hard I've always worked to take care of my cats. She never questioned anything I did regarding FD and wrote my scripts without batting an eye.

While we were at UCD, one of the third year vet students there told me that they get FIVE HOURS of training on diabetes - and that covers both cats and dogs! So you see, it's not surprising that most vets don't know a lot about it. They have to study a bunch of different diseases and conditions in multiple species. A typical vet probably doesn't have very many, if any, patients with FD, and even fewer whose owners get into it the way we do - sadly many people opt for euthanization rather than the hassle of treating. So now you are part of the Nod and Smile Brigade. Try to keep a good relationship with a vet, because you need that prescription for insulin, and you will need him or her for other issues, but don't volunteer any info about how Tinka's doing, except "she's great"!
 
My story is very similar. I had a vet who, at first, wouldn't even test Squallie for diabetes when I told her I was pretty sure that was what he had. When she finally diagnosed him she put him on Vetsulin and had me bringing him in every couple of days so she could test hid bg. She didn't want me to home test, and when I pushed the issue she made me test by drawing blood with a syringe from a vein in his leg! I asked about ear testing and she told me it was too painful and not accurate. (Needless to say, I ignored this and started testing his ear on my own, using a human meter, which she also told me not to do!) She pushed me into buying some very expensive "prescription" food from her, because she said that was the only appropriate food for a diabetic cat. Of course, his bg rose and at one point she had him on 7 units twice a day! When I joined FDMB and realized how awful that "prescription" food was, I started feeding Fancy Feast Classics and his bg came down dramatically. If I had listened to her and not tested, Squallie would probably have died early on in his treatment when his bg dropped to 22. I am so glad I didn't listen to her! At a later visit I guessthey realized I hadn't been buying food from them because the first thing the receptionist asked was what was I feeding him and, not thinking about the consequences, I told her Fancy Feast; she raked me over the coals, right there at the reception desk, in front of all the other customers, then went off to tell the vet, who then raked me over the coals in the exam room! The vet said I was feeding him junk food, and was testing him way too much. She ended the conversation by telling me I was going to kill him.

I never went back.

I was lucky enough to find an awesome vet (farther away but so worth the travel) who lets me do my own thing with the diabetes treatment. He's there if I need him, but so far I haven't, and he's never actually treated Squall for his FD. He does have a hard time wrapping his head around the human meter, but he's finally come to terms with it, although I know it gives him the heebie-jeebies when he sees numbers below 100 on my ss, lol! I gave him a link to my ss so he can check it out any time he feels like it, and so he has quick access to it if I have a problem. I also sent him a link to the Roomp-Rand study, so he could better understand what I was doing.

If you can't get your vet on board with your treatment you will end up doing lots of biting your tongue and nodding your head, lol. I'm not much good at biting my tongue, so finding another vet was the best option for me. :):):)
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
I'm late to the party, but I have to share my story. When Cinco was diagnosed, I knew nothing about FD. The vet that was treating him taught us how to give insulin and said to bring him back in a week for a curve. That went on for a couple of weeks, with her increasing the dose each time. Then Cinco got DKA and was very, very sick. The vet wanted to euthanize him, but he got stabilized and we brought him home. We struggled with his issues - he was so weak he couldn't get up to go to the lb and had urine scald on both his back legs. One day after a vet visit, where she again urged euthanization, we gave him his insulin and left for our bowling league. On the way there we talked about it and agreed that we would let him go the next day. When we got home, he was standing up in his cage and meowing! We took that as a sign he wanted to fight. A friend told me about her daughter and how she'd found this wonderful website full of knowledgeable, caring people who had helped her save her cat. The daughter, whose cat had crossed due to CKD, sent me her meter and supplies and told me how to do the spreadsheet, etc. I joined up and started following the advice I received here, and Cinco not only got better, but he went OTJ in a couple of months! I switched vets to UC Davis, the #1 vet school in the country, and went round and round with the Internal Medicine vet about how I was testing too much and letting him get too low. I managed to get an appointment with Dr. Richard Nelson, who at that time was the head of the department. He is a noted endocrinologist that does a lot of research on diabetes in cats and dogs (and he is acquainted with Jaque Rand, one of the authors of TR). He didn't seem many patients, in fact I think Cinco was his last before he retired. He examined Cinco, looked at the SS and told me I was doing a great job and to keep doing what I was doing. I made him tell the IM that, and although I could tell she disagreed, she never gave me a hard time again. I switched Cinco to another vet, anyway, who respects me and how hard I've always worked to take care of my cats. She never questioned anything I did regarding FD and wrote my scripts without batting an eye.

While we were at UCD, one of the third year vet students there told me that they get FIVE HOURS of training on diabetes - and that covers both cats and dogs! So you see, it's not surprising that most vets don't know a lot about it. They have to study a bunch of different diseases and conditions in multiple species. A typical vet probably doesn't have very many, if any, patients with FD, and even fewer whose owners get into it the way we do - sadly many people opt for euthanization rather than the hassle of treating. So now you are part of the Nod and Smile Brigade. Try to keep a good relationship with a vet, because you need that prescription for insulin, and you will need him or her for other issues, but don't volunteer any info about how Tinka's doing, except "she's great"!
Click to expand...
Thank you Tricia for sharing your and Cinco's journey! Wow it made me so teary to hear how he was saved. What a wonderful group we have here I! Thank you for your support and advise. I will def try to maintain a relationship so I can keep getting the insulin but I won't share Tinka diabetes info anymore as unfortunately the vet is just not on board. It's really sad that they get so little training. Well at least we have such an informative forum here, I'm so happy to have found this amazing group:)
 
Squalliesmom said:
My story is very similar. I had a vet who, at first, wouldn't even test Squallie for diabetes when I told her I was pretty sure that was what he had. When she finally diagnosed him she put him on Vetsulin and had me bringing him in every couple of days so she could test hid bg. She didn't want me to home test, and when I pushed the issue she made me test by drawing blood with a syringe from a vein in his leg! I asked about ear testing and she told me it was too painful and not accurate. (Needless to say, I ignored this and started testing his ear on my own, using a human meter, which she also told me not to do!) She pushed me into buying some very expensive "prescription" food from her, because she said that was the only appropriate food for a diabetic cat. Of course, his bg rose and at one point she had him on 7 units twice a day! When I joined FDMB and realized how awful that "prescription" food was, I started feeding Fancy Feast Classics and his bg came down dramatically. If I had listened to her and not tested, Squallie would probably have died early on in his treatment when his bg dropped to 22. I am so glad I didn't listen to her! At a later visit I guessthey realized I hadn't been buying food from them because the first thing the receptionist asked was what was I feeding him and, not thinking about the consequences, I told her Fancy Feast; she raked me over the coals, right there at the reception desk, in front of all the other customers, then went off to tell the vet, who then raked me over the coals in the exam room! The vet said I was feeding him junk food, and was testing him way too much. She ended the conversation by telling me I was going to kill him.

I never went back.

I was lucky enough to find an awesome vet (farther away but so worth the travel) who lets me do my own thing with the diabetes treatment. He's there if I need him, but so far I haven't, and he's never actually treated Squall for his FD. He does have a hard time wrapping his head around the human meter, but he's finally come to terms with it, although I know it gives him the heebie-jeebies when he sees numbers below 100 on my ss, lol! I gave him a link to my ss so he can check it out any time he feels like it, and so he has quick access to it if I have a problem. I also sent him a link to the Roomp-Rand study, so he could better understand what I was doing.

If you can't get your vet on board with your treatment you will end up doing lots of biting your tongue and nodding your head, lol. I'm not much good at biting my tongue, so finding another vet was the best option for me. :):):)
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Thank you for sharing your journey what a stressful time you went through and such awful advise. I'm so glad you found FDMB too and wonderful to hear how much it's helped Squallie. I hope I can find a better vet in time too!! Thanks for your support :)
 
Chris & China said:
Aren't you in Canada?? Insulin is OTC there so you wouldn't need your vet for your insulin script either
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Yes I'm in Canada! I actually think someone did mention this a while back on another thread. So I could just go the pharmacy and request Lantus for my cat without a script? That would be great the less I have to deal with my vet about the diabetes the better! :)
 
Well, I'd like to say your vet is wrong. (I think you're getting the gist.). My knee jerk reaction is to ask the vet to direct you to an article or other information on using a long-acting, depot type of insulin for a diabetic cat. Chances are, your vet is basing her choice of dosing on the use of a shorter acting, non-depot insulin (e.g., Novolin/Humulin N) or possibly on ProZinc. After your vet mumbles something about there not being any research, offer to share the article I've linked. These authors have several articles published in highly regarded veterinary journals regarding the use of the Tight Regulation Protocol. It's really hard for a vet to argue with science..

 

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TanyaG said:
Yes I'm in Canada! I actually think someone did mention this a while back on another thread. So I could just go the pharmacy and request Lantus for my cat without a script? That would be great the less I have to deal with my vet about the diabetes the better! :)
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Yes, you absolutely CAN buy Lantus OTC here. Furthermore, at Shoppers Drug Mart you can get it at the 20% seniors' discount every Thursday, it's tax free AND you can collect Optimum points. If you're too young to get that discount, just go with an older friend or relative. Recently, I asked about this at Shoppers and found out that a pack of 5 Lantus cartridges which normally sells for $125 would only cost $100 with the discount, no tax. Hard to beat that deal! The unopened cartridges will last a very long time in your fridge.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
urthermore, at Shoppers Drug Mart you can get it at the 20% seniors' discount every Thursday
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In Manitoba anyway there is no senior's discount on any drugs such as insulin, only on testing supplies and syringes. I don't know if other provinces are different so best to check. I buy my insulin (Levemir) at Walmart since they are much cheaper than Shopper's. Best to ask and check out different pharmacies to get the best price.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
In Manitoba anyway there is no senior's discount on any drugs such as insulin, only on testing supplies and syringes. I don't know if other provinces are different so best to check. I buy my insulin (Levemir) at Walmart since they are much cheaper than Shopper's. Best to ask and check out different pharmacies to get the best price.
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Good to know.
 
In BC, I found the Safeway pharmacy the best price of insulin and diabetic supplies. Here, Shoppers prices are about 20% higher so the 20% off discount brings them in line with what the lowest price suppliers do every day. Definitely shop around.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
In BC, I found the Safeway pharmacy the best price of insulin and diabetic supplies. Here, Shoppers prices are about 20% higher so the 20% off discount brings them in line with what the lowest price suppliers do every day. Definitely shop around.
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Thank you thats great to know:) We have an IGA pharmarcy here (IGA took over the Safeway) so I'll try them first, else there's a Safeway in the next town over. How much do you pay for yours out of interest? I will def shop around thank you:)
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Well, I'd like to say your vet is wrong. (I think you're getting the gist.). My knee jerk reaction is to ask the vet to direct you to an article or other information on using a long-acting, depot type of insulin for a diabetic cat. Chances are, your vet is basing her choice of dosing on the use of a shorter acting, non-depot insulin (e.g., Novolin/Humulin N) or possibly on ProZinc. After your vet mumbles something about there not being any research, offer to share the article I've linked. These authors have several articles published in highly regarded veterinary journals regarding the use of the Tight Regulation Protocol. It's really hard for a vet to argue with science..
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Thanks so much for this article, its great to have good info to show the vet!
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Yes, you absolutely CAN buy Lantus OTC here. Furthermore, at Shoppers Drug Mart you can get it at the 20% seniors' discount every Thursday, it's tax free AND you can collect Optimum points. If you're too young to get that discount, just go with an older friend or relative. Recently, I asked about this at Shoppers and found out that a pack of 5 Lantus cartridges which normally sells for $125 would only cost $100 with the discount, no tax. Hard to beat that deal! The unopened cartridges will last a very long time in your fridge.
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Thank you Kris thats great to know!! Where about are you based? Im in Banff, Alberta. I will def check out shoppers, safeway and rexall to compare prices. I really like the idea of the cartridges rather than one larger vial. We paid $136 plus 5% tax for our vial from the vet so I'm sure I can find it cheaper else where and I'm really glad I don't need to use the vets anymore! :)
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
In Manitoba anyway there is no senior's discount on any drugs such as insulin, only on testing supplies and syringes. I don't know if other provinces are different so best to check. I buy my insulin (Levemir) at Walmart since they are much cheaper than Shopper's. Best to ask and check out different pharmacies to get the best price.
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Thank you for sharing thats good to know Walmart have good prices too, I'll def shop around. Yah for OTC :)
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I am in BC and would just ask for a five pack of insulin cartridge at the pharmacy. I was surprised how much the pharmacist knew about Feline diabetes, she had a number of kitty clients. She is the one who got me the correct syringes and told me to buy cartridges instead of the vial.
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Thats so great you got such good service there. I really want to get the cartridges too instead of the vial. I'm so pleased I don't need a script! I'm quite surprised to be honest that its OTC. Is that because its for felines rather than humans? Good to know about syringes too as I'm currently getting those from the vets too. Do you use the ones for fine dosing? Would be great to get thosse and my needles for BG testing from the pharmacy. The less I have to deal with the vet and their higher prices the better :)
 
TanyaG said:
How much do you pay for yours out of interest?
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It's been a few years. Neko was on Levemir the last three years, and it cost a bit more than the Lantus. I only bought a Lantus vial once, and it was something like $79, then I went to the 5 pack of cartridges, which is 50% more insulin, and it was around $100. With no tax. It's OTC for both pets and humans, just a difference of payment I think.
TanyaG said:
Good to know about syringes too as I'm currently getting those from the vets too. Do you use the ones for fine dosing? Would be great to get thosse and my needles for BG testing from the pharmacy. The less I have to deal with the vet and their higher prices the better :)
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Definitely shop around for the rest of the supplies. I got the BD Ultrafine II syringes (1/2 unit markings), the purple and yellow box, for around $36 at the Safeway pharmacy and it's more like $44 at Shoppers and some other pharmacies for the box of 100. Lancets were also a dollar cheaper at Safeway. Safeway here was bought by Sobeys. Costco and Real Canadian Superstore also have fairly good prices here, if you have those stores.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
It's been a few years. Neko was on Levemir the last three years, and it cost a bit more than the Lantus. I only bought a Lantus vial once, and it was something like $79, then I went to the 5 pack of cartridges, which is 50% more insulin, and it was around $100. With no tax. It's OTC for both pets and humans, just a difference of payment I think.

Definitely shop around for the rest of the supplies. I got the BD Ultrafine II syringes (1/2 unit markings), the purple and yellow box, for around $36 at the Safeway pharmacy and it's more like $44 at Shoppers and some other pharmacies for the box of 100. Lancets were also a dollar cheaper at Safeway. Safeway here was bought by Sobeys. Costco and Real Canadian Superstore also have fairly good prices here, if you have those stores.
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Thanks so much for this info Wendy :) Good to get an idea of costings. Will def ring around to compare here. I'd really like to get the cartriges they seem much more cost effective and practical too! Do you have to draw from them in a different way to the vials? Took us a while to get use to drawing from the vial, we tend to struggle with getting air in so usually have to take more out at a time then flick to remove bubbles then squeeze out excess insulin. Just wondering if there is much difference with the cartriges. Thanks again for your help!
 
TanyaG said:
Do you have to draw from them in a different way to the vials? Took us a while to get use to drawing from the vial, we tend to struggle with getting air in so usually have to take more out at a time then flick to remove bubbles then squeeze out excess insulin. Just wondering if there is much difference with the cartriges.
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The cartridges don't work on a vacuum system so you DO NOT inject air into them. Simply insert the needle and draw out the dose you need. It helps to keep bubbles to a minimum if you depress the plunger on the needle as hard as you can when inserting it into the cartridge.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
The cartridges don't work on a vacuum system so you DO NOT inject air into them. Simply insert the needle and draw out the dose you need. It helps to keep bubbles to a minimum if you depress the plunger on the needle as hard as you can when inserting it into the cartridge.
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Thank you thats really great info to know :) My vial has a system that when you draw out the insulin the bottom part keeps coming up to keep it compressed, so no air was ever in it. So we have similar technique we don't inject air in and try and keep the plunger tight. Not sure if thats right for a vial as I watched the video and they had air at the top of theirs I think but mine doesn't have any air in. I will def try to depress the plunger harder for the cartridge I'm sure this will help:) Thanks again!
 
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TanyaG said:
Thank you Kris thats great to know!! Where about are you based? Im in Banff, Alberta. I will def check out shoppers, safeway and rexall to compare prices. I really like the idea of the cartridges rather than one larger vial. We paid $136 plus 5% tax for our vial from the vet so I'm sure I can find it cheaper else where and I'm really glad I don't need to use the vets anymore! :)
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I'm in Ottawa ON and things appear to vary province by province.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I'm in Ottawa ON and things appear to vary province by province.
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Thanks Kris:) I just checked my receipt from the vet and it was actually $58 for my 3ml vial, I remember him saying $136 though so I'm not sure what happened there. Either way the cartridges look cheaper I just saw online for 5 pack of lantus cartriges each 3ml is $112 so thats only $22 per 3ml cartridge that less than half the price of what I paid! Gona ring around shortly to see if I can get a better price in store too:)
 
TanyaG said:
Thanks Kris:) I just checked my receipt from the vet and it was actually $58 for my 3ml vial, I remember him saying $136 though so I'm not sure what happened there. Either way the cartridges look cheaper I just saw online for 5 pack of lantus cartriges each 3ml is $112 so thats only $22 per 3ml cartridge that less than half the price of what I paid! Gona ring around shortly to see if I can get a better price in store too:)
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The $136 was probably for the larger 10 mL vial. People here usually don't buy those because the insulin can lose its "oomph" well before the vial is finished. My vet sells a single 3 mL cartridge for $48. Shoppers Drug Mart charges $125 for a 5-pack without the discount, so $25 per cartridge.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
These authors have several articles published in highly regarded veterinary journals regarding the use of the Tight Regulation Protocol. It's really hard for a vet to argue with science..
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Have you seen the insulin ruler they refer to in the article? You can download on the link they provide (pasted below) looks really handy, I'm going to try it soon - http://www.diabetes-katzen.net/insulinruler.pdf
I haven't read the whole article yet, do you know if they actually refer to the protol as Tight Regulation? Thank you!
 
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