Freya's ProZinc Saga, Vol. II

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Ugh, yellow at +6. :stop: I think that's more to do with her high flats than the type of food though, since she went from blue at +3 to green at +6 on the same type/amount of food just days ago. I will bump her up to 4u when I'm able.
 
Hmmm, it may be that her nadir is just early today too. That does happen...I'd give the new feeding schedule a day or 2 and then bump up I think.
 
Rachel said:
Hmmm, it may be that her nadir is just early today too. That does happen...I'd give the new feeding schedule a day or 2 and then bump up I think.
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That's true; I've noticed it often alternates between +5 and +6 or presumably somewhere in between.

I have things to do in town today, so unfortunately won't be able to get as many tests. However, I realised she may have actually got yesterday's AM +8 meal an hour late since my clock was off! :facepalm: So that may not be an accurate representation. :rolleyes: Also worth noting (and I've noted it on her sheet) is that she used to get her pre-shot test about 25 minutes before her shot. This was to give me time to portion out her food for the day and give her time to eat it all, since it was a bigger meal. I'm sure her BG was rising in that time, so by the time she got her shot, it could have been notably higher than the PS showed, judging by what a difference a 20-minute stall can make. That could account for some of the appearance of unchanging numbers at +2 or whatever. She gets pissed if I interrupt her for a shot while she's eating and jumps all over the place as she gobbles, so that was never an option. But now that she's got less to eat, she's being tested, fed, and injected all within 15 minutes as of today. So that PS column should be closer to reality now.

Her ProZinc vial is getting lowish. I called the vet last week since they typically need only 24-hour notice, but I guess with the bank holiday over here, the earliest they could get it in is tomorrow. Hopefully I can pick it up then. She definitely has enough left in the current vial, but this is my first one, and as it gets lower I have a hard time gauging how long what's there will last -- especially with the increases.

Should I be cautious when starting a new vial? I don't know if the one she's been using may have lost potency or something. Not sure if there are things to look for with that. I've never actually had a vial last this long before, but it was first used on April 19th. There are no bits floating in it or anything like that.

Edit: Oh, and thought I'd mention that since she ate at +8 last night, she was much less frantic this morning and actually let me sleep! :cat:
 
Ugh, sorry for another post, but I just remembered a random question as I was looking over foods to order as her supplies are dwindling.

MAC's Mono Sensitive Turkey is very low carb but has carrot -- admittedly a low amount at 2%, same as the blueberry in the Turkey & Blueberry variety. I was just curious if anyone has noticed an issue with carrot in small amounts? I know carrots aren't supposed to be bad for human diabetics, but not sure about the feline ones.
 
When I got my new vial, I had read many times to give slightly reduced dose, so for the first dose I slightly reduced and after not seeing noticeable difference resumed the previous dose next shot.

:bookworm: Carrots and some other fruits and vegetables in small amounts, like they put in some foods, are listed as OK and non-toxic for kitties. But they're kind of in there for filler, and a little Vitamin A, since they are not needed for our little fur carnivores :cat:.
 
I always approach a new vial cautiously even though nothing scary has happened. I keep the same dose but monitor a bit more on the day (never on an evening cycle) I start it.
 
Rachel said:
Also if you're near the end of a bottle, you might start the new one and store the little bit left in the first one in your fridge. That way if you ever have an accident with your new bottle you have a bit to use while waiting for a new one...
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I always do this.
 
That all makes sense. I wouldn't have thought to save some of the old stuff. The vet I usually deal with is a small branch practice of the main practice, and they close for a few hours every afternoon. (Annoying.) I'm going to call them when they reopen today and see what the news is on her insulin order and keep everyone's advice in mind.

She got 4u this morning, and Things Are Happening! That's the lowest +2 in ages -- a nice blue. I'll watch her closely. Plus, I'm home by myself for a few days with not much to go out for and deliveries to wait on, so my hope is that I can devote extra time to tackling this resistance.

I ordered some more Smilla from Zooplus last night (and her Thrive treats, which she'll be pleased about). The bulk of the order was Tender Poultry with Poultry Hearts, less of Tender Poultry with Fish, and something new I wanted to try. I remember reading about a cat on here with a lot of food issues that did well on Smilla Kitten with Chicken, so I got her some cans of that to see how she does. :bookworm: The budget is really tight, especially since all at once she needs new insulin, more food, AND more syringes/needles. :facepalm: Smilla is by far the cheapest low-carb option over here, even cheaper than the sugary supermarket stuff, so the more of that she can eat while still getting some variety, the better.

She really is behaving better since getting the six feedings, even though she's not getting anything extra to eat. She doesn't obsess over the feeder quite as badly and doesn't harass me in the mornings, sleeping at the foot of the bed rather than slowly creeping up to yell in my face. I hope it works for her BG because it sure seems to keep her more satisfied. If I have to shift the times around in the end, I'll try that, but I think she'll be happier with this arrangement if it can be managed.
 
Happy kitties make for happy beans! I think it's great that the 6 feedings are working for her. :)
 
Well, as it turns out, this is her third cycle with no notable response to 4u. I'm guessing it's okay if I go ahead and increase her at the next cycle? I worry the longer she stays at these numbers, the harder it'll be to break this.
 
Onward and upward! If you scroll down your spreadsheet though, you can see that the PS numbers are continuing to come down. Slowly, but still, every little bit helps. So hang in there!
 
I guess I'd attributed the lower pre-shots mostly to the fact that she's not getting low enough to even bounce from anything, so she's staying around the same level all day. It looks like the higher pre-shots tend to come when the insulin is actually having an effect. Do you think I'm off base on that? It's so hard to tell if anything is doing, well, anything. o_O

I'll pick up her new vial this afternoon. Still no word on my Zooplus order yet, which is odd and a little concerning. I don't know what she'll eat if I run out of her usual. I guess the answer to that is Whiskas and the other slightly higher-carb foods, but ugh...
 
Her SS reminds me of Teasel's. Take heart - you'll get there! She might never be "easy" (my guy sure isn't!) but if she looks and feels good take comfort in that. She *might* settle down a bit when her dose is a tad higher but the the only safe way there is what you're doing.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Her SS reminds me of Teasel's. Take heart - you'll get there! She might never be "easy" (my guy sure isn't!) but if she looks and feels good take comfort in that. She *might* settle down a bit when her dose is a tad higher but the the only safe way there is what you're doing.
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Thanks. I've noticed her little legs trembling more in the past few days, and she hasn't been jumping up to her usual spots for a while. :( But otherwise she seems mostly okay. What's the highest dose Teasel has been on?

This AM will be her second cycle on 4.25u. I'm disappointed with how the first cycle went. If she doesn't respond after a third, I'll move her on up to 4.5u. The higher it goes, the more I think I may have to take her in to get things tested or checked out eventually if she hits 6u, which seems more and more likely. Sigh. For most cats that would seem a large leap to assume, I know, but she can easily plow through a full unit increase (in small increments of course) with no change. I hope it's not certain conditions, the names of which I won't speak so as not to invoke them. :stop:

At least I got an e-mail from Zooplus this morning, saying her food is finally on the way and should arrive tomorrow or Saturday. So that's one less thing to worry about.
 
We've seen that lots of times where kitties can just go up and up and suddenly they break through! And she's actually not in bad numbers...yellows are nice, we just want it lower!

There are high dose kitties, but I think for now, just focus on those increases. If she hits that 6 mark, you can look into it and we can get some folks who have high dose kitties to chime in. But for now, I wouldn't worry about it.
 
Blair & Freya said:
Thanks. I've noticed her little legs trembling more in the past few days, and she hasn't been jumping up to her usual spots for a while. :( But otherwise she seems mostly okay. What's the highest dose Teasel has been on?

This AM will be her second cycle on 4.25u. I'm disappointed with how the first cycle went. If she doesn't respond after a third, I'll move her on up to 4.5u. The higher it goes, the more I think I may have to take her in to get things tested or checked out eventually if she hits 6u, which seems more and more likely. Sigh. For most cats that would seem a large leap to assume, I know, but she can easily plow through a full unit increase (in small increments of course) with no change. I hope it's not certain conditions, the names of which I won't speak so as not to invoke them. :stop:

At least I got an e-mail from Zooplus this morning, saying her food is finally on the way and should arrive tomorrow or Saturday. So that's one less thing to worry about.
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The highest dose Teasel had was 3.6 u of ProZinc and that was just before I joined FDMB. He dropped too low on that - then. Today I just boosted his Lantus dose to 3.5 u for the first time. I expect it'll give him a little jolt and then he'll settle back into bouncing. Que sera, sera.
 
Hahah that's true.

After three blah cycles of 4.25u, she got her first 4.5u this morning. I've gotten to the point where I'm not optimistic about it working, but if it does, I'll be pleasantly surprised. Her pre-shot was a bit lower today than it has been lately though, so I guess that's good. I'm glad she rarely gets above 300 (16.7) when the insulin isn't really active. She does when bouncing, but if the insulin's going to be nearly ineffective, I'd rather have her lingering in yellows than pinks.
 
Lower preshot is good! I know it's tough, but hang in there. Remember that these kitties are rarely predictable...and that this is a marathon not a sprint!

How does Freya seem other than the SS? Remember, she is more than just a number! Does she SEEM okay?
 
Rachel said:
How does Freya seem other than the SS? Remember, she is more than just a number! Does she SEEM okay?
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Well, she seems mostly okay, but there are things that tell me she's not feeling completely herself. She's been sitting in my lap and purring a lot lately, but she also doesn't want to play at all or jump too high, and her legs tremble. :( Appearance-wise she looks better than she once did, though.

Djamila said:
Maybe Freya is going to flat-cycle her way all the way down to the blues and greens? You're sure you're giving her prozinc, and not lantus, right? ;)o_O
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Ugh, she had a pink at her PM +4 just now. I don't know what in the world is going on here. I'd wager she didn't get lower than maybe 8 (144) in today's AM cycle, so I doubt this even qualifies as a bounce. In the morning, it'll be her third time at 4.5u, so I have a feeling we'll be on 4.75u by tomorrow night. I don't like where this seems to be headed.
 
Blair, you're really doing a good job of managing her, and it's so good to hear that you're seeing some improvement in appearance and affection. Those are important indicators. Sick cats tend to hide, so sitting on your lap is really good. I'm so sorry to see the doses creeping up there. Don't worry too much about the pink today - it's just one cycle, but I do understand your concern about how high the dose is getting. All you can really do is just keep giving her what she needs for now. Are you in contact with a vet? Is your vet good about all of this, or not so much?
 
Thanks. And no, I haven't actually contacted the vet at all except to get her insulin. I don't have much confidence in their dosing advice, particularly since one of the vets at the practice was unsupportive of frequent home testing. I am wondering what they'll say or do if I bring her in and say I want her examined/tested to see why her insulin needs are high (if it gets to that point). I have a feeling they'll either be dismissive or not know enough about anything to be helpful. My vet options are limited, though; this is why I've just been dosing her myself. It adds an extra layer of frustration not having a vet you're super confident in. :nailbiting:

Edit: Oh, another reason I stopped bothering with the vet was they are understaffed and slammed all the time and began sounding irritated with me when I called. So that was a fun thing.
 
Oh vets! Even here with more vets than you can imagine (I live in a VERY pet friendly city!) it can be hard to find someone who knows anything about the complexities of FD. The reason I was asking is that if Freya does need to be tested at some point, it might take a little looking to find a vet who can help you.

Have you looked at the forum on here for high dose kitties? I really do think it's too early to call it that with Freya anyway - I've certainly seen spreadhsheets with kitties in these dose ranges who did come back down eventually. I'm just one of those nerdy types who likes to study before I need to know something. ;)o_O:rolleyes:
 
I have read some yes, but as her dose continues to increase, I may look into things more closely. I recall reading a few things that made me wonder a little, but I'll hold off on assuming anything just yet.

For the sake of experimentation, I gave her 4.5u from a new vial this AM. There's still insulin left in the old vial, so if there's not a marked difference in potency between the two, I'll probably use up some more of the old stuff before switching back. But I just want to eliminate the chance that the insulin is the cause, and wanted to do it before hitting 5u. Will keep watch on her today for sure. I'm stuck waiting around the flat for a Zooplus delivery anyway. :rolleyes: I hope it turns out to be okay to give her that dose...
 
Sorry for a third post, but I realised I hadn't posted any pictures in a while. I got up to see what she was doing just a bit ago and found her on the bed in a food coma, with food on her nose yet again. I'm curious how long she'll go this time without noticing. :p She's a mess.

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And here are a few others from the past week or two. This pose is common:

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Annnd, lying on my lap yesterday while I played an MMO:

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:cat:
 
Blair & Freya said:
Sorry for a third post, but I realised I hadn't posted any pictures in a while. I got up to see what she was doing just a bit ago and found her on the bed in a food coma, with food on her nose yet again. I'm curious how long she'll go this time without noticing. :p She's a mess.

sIPofCt.png


And here are a few others from the past week or two. This pose is common:

yY4UrHf.png


Annnd, lying on my lap yesterday while I played an MMO:

TOFkXOu.png


:cat:
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She's lovely! Her eyes are mesmerizing. :) Teasel's brother often has a grain or two of clumping litter on his nose.
 
Hahah. It looked like two little bits of fat from her food that had solidified in the fridge. One was still there an hour later, but by her +2 test both were gone. :p At least her AM +2 was lower than her AMPS today. :rolleyes: It's something I guess.
 
Keep doing what you're doing. Sometimes we worry that if a dose gets high-ish we're doing something wrong but a kitty needs the insulin he/she needs. That 6 u boundary where you start wondering about other conditions is just a guideline. @Bobbie And Bubba had to get up to 5.25 u to jumpstart Bubba.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Keep doing what you're doing. Sometimes we worry that if a dose gets high-ish we're doing something wrong but a kitty needs the insulin he/she needs. That 6 u boundary where you start wondering about other conditions is just a guideline. @Bobbie And Bubba had to get up to 5.25 u to jumpstart Bubba.
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Hi Blair! Yep, Bubba got all the way to 5.25 until he started coming down. That was on Lantus not ProZinc just to clarify.

I like how you have steadily upped the dose every six cycles rather than doing a sliding scale. To me, it seems like more control and it's easier to see what is working.

I noticed you changed you feeding schedule to 6 X day. Bubba gets fed 6 times /day also and it did give him better control with his numbers while he was on insulin. Just something to observe, when feeding some kitties after nadir (and it looks like hers is at +6), the food can act like brakes on the insulin and hike them up some. It's just something to be aware of and experiment with. If you think that is happening with her, you could try getting her 6 meals in before the nadir in each cycle to see if that makes a difference.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hi Blair! Yep, Bubba got all the way to 5.25 until he started coming down. That was on Lantus not ProZinc just to clarify.

I like how you have steadily upped the dose every six cycles rather than doing a sliding scale. To me, it seems like more control and it's easier to see what is working.

I noticed you changed you feeding schedule to 6 X day. Bubba gets fed 6 times /day also and it did give him better control with his numbers while he was on insulin. Just something to observe, when feeding some kitties after nadir (and it looks like hers is at +6), the food can act like brakes on the insulin and hike them up some. It's just something to be aware of and experiment with. If you think that is happening with her, you could try getting her 6 meals in before the nadir in each cycle to see if that makes a difference.
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I've been upping them every three lately, when it's apparent it's just not doing anything at all. Looking through past trends, it seems like if she lingers too long in those flat yellows, she just ends up needing more and more. I had considered that about the post-nadir feeding and plan to experiment with it if necessary once it looks like the insulin is actually doing something, especially at +5 to +6. Part of the problem seemed to be that she was eating too much at the beginning of the day, so she wasn't starting to come down until later.

Thanks for chiming in, and glad to hear your guy is OTJ! :cat:

Yong said:
And let's add another layer when you clash with them :rolleyes:.

On a side note, what MMO were you playing and what medium? :)
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Yeah, I've already had a bit of a clash with the one who advises me against home testing. Ugh.

As for the MMO, I've played a number (always on PC), but it's been FFXIV lately. I was leveling my miner while she hung out with me, hahah.
 
Oh man. I play on Balmung right now. That server is a bit crazy but I like the high population. I've played a lot on and off, and was trying to catch up for the expansion after having taken a break. This character began as an alt and somehow became my main, so a lot of stuff isn't unlocked yet. Started as Highlander, switched to Keeper of the Moon (black cat obviously), now back to Highlander to be the tall person in parties full of tiny cats. It makes me feel like Gandalf with all his little dwarves and hobbits. This was my scrappy Freya-inspired cat before the race change:

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Sometimes I miss the ears and tail for the animations, and I get tempted to try being a man-cat. Then I could be a black cat minus the OTT cutesy emotes. :cool:

My first ever MMO was Ultima Online, which I still actually play with a group of friends despite hating the dev team. :arghh: Man that game is like two million years old at this point.
 
Blair & Freya said:
Looking through past trends, it seems like if she lingers too long in those flat yellows, she just ends up needing more and more.
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This is exactly what happens to Teasel. I call it "dose complacency" but it's likely the beginning of glucose toxicity (which is reversible) setting in and that makes them less responsive to insulin. In my opinion some kitties are more likely to develop it quickly than others. The remedy is careful dose increases with no lingering at an ineffective dose. You're doing the right thing.
 
Blair & Freya said:
Oh man. I play on Balmung right now. That server is a bit crazy but I like the high population. I've played a lot on and off, and was trying to catch up for the expansion after having taken a break. This character began as an alt and somehow became my main, so a lot of stuff isn't unlocked yet. Started as Highlander, switched to Keeper of the Moon (black cat obviously), now back to Highlander to be the tall person in parties full of tiny cats. It makes me feel like Gandalf with all his little dwarves and hobbits. This was my scrappy Freya-inspired cat before the race change:

g6bfzHo.png


Sometimes I miss the ears and tail for the animations, and I get tempted to try being a man-cat. Then I could be a black cat minus the OTT cutesy emotes. :cool:

My first ever MMO was Ultima Online, which I still actually play with a group of friends despite hating the dev team. :arghh: Man that game is like two million years old at this point.
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I'm an old fart so this is what this conversation looks like to me:

Snyo me tomffe sal vvlgeicllestin salovdeslzxvu eosaolvewus! Toespleic gkeothas ihqwiuhbvf owxvhwe. :D;)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
This is exactly what happens to Teasel. I call it "dose complacency" but it's likely the beginning of glucose toxicity (which is reversible) setting in and that makes them less responsive to insulin. In my opinion some kitties are more likely to develop it quickly than others. The remedy is careful dose increases with no lingering at an ineffective dose. You're doing the right thing.
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It's looking like she might give a decent PMPS unless she suddenly shoots up. Based on your experience, do you think I should try her at a fourth dose of 4.5u, or just go ahead and increase? Today's AM shot was from the new vial.

Kris & Teasel said:
I'm an old fart so this is what this conversation looks like to me:

Snyo me tomffe sal vvlgeicllestin salovdeslzxvu eosaolvewus! Toespleic gkeothas ihqwiuhbvf owxvhwe. :D;)
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Djamila said:
Me too, Kris. o_Oo_Oo_O
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Hahah. Well, the first online game I played turns 20 this year, if that tells you anything. I'm not particularly young, just a loser. :cool:
 
I'm on Coeurl on NA server ^__^ I played a lot for almost a year. Last time I played back in the fall of 2016 my ilvl of 230 became slightly insignificant :(. Got bored quickly with the grind for new scripts, they keep changing them! lol. I'm a loser with you :cool:
Here's my WHM - Miqo'te til the end! :cat:
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...wtf. PMPS of 158 (8.8). o_O I was expecting lower than usual but uh, I wasn't expecting it to be LOWER than her +8. I guess we're stalling and seeing. Not sure what to do if she doesn't come up enough. In the past I've just not injected at all, but I don't know if I'm at a point where I can give a reduced dose in these situations?

Update: She was 194 (10.8) after a 20-minute stall, so I guess I'll go ahead and give her the 4.5u again and see if that gets her anywhere good. I have carby food on hand if it becomes necessary, but looks like she's on the rise.

Yong said:
I'm on Coeurl on NA server ^__^ I played a lot for almost a year. Last time I played back in the fall of 2016 my ilvl of 230 became slightly insignificant :(. Got bored quickly with the grind for new scripts, they keep changing them! lol. I'm a loser with you :cool:
Here's my WHM - Miqo'te til the end! :cat:
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Suncat I see. She's cute! I've heard Coeurl is very friendly.
 
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Lol...I typed this and then fell asleep and forgot to hit "post":

I'm wondering if she might run a little long tonight since she hasn't moved much in the past few hours. I'd say if she stays lower, keep the dose one more cycle, but if she shoots up at the end into normal PS numbers, you could go ahead with it.
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I think you did the right thing to stick with the dose and monitor. I'm dying to see her +2 though! It looks like soon, right?
 
Hahah. Yeah, it'll be a little less than half an hour from now since the stall put us slightly off schedule. I'm curious too... :nailbiting: I almost expect her to randomly shoot back into the yellows or something. She got a decent run of blues today if nothing else. She was so pissed about stalling and screamed the whole 20 minutes! Very dramatic. :rolleyes:

Afterwards, she took a liking to the Zooplus delivery box, despite not being a box cat by nature. That's the packing strap she has her face buried in:

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She was in there purring to herself and looked so pathetic that I took pity and made her a little fort with her blanket.

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The flash made her eyes look kind of freaky, but I promise they're not usually like that. :D Maybe a box fort will make up for getting her ears stabbed like crazy today, hahah.
 
What a loved (spoiled ;)) kitty!!! I've already confessed that knowing Sam is hungry just tears at my heart. Stalling is the worst!!! So hugs to you and Freya for making it through the 20 minutes and getting a rising number! I love the little fort - and the addition of the stuffy is adorable! While you're probably right that your next test will be yellow, it could also go the other way since it was a good dose on a low number.

I'm wondering if you should hold the dose a couple more cycles to see if that long cycle is telling us anything. It's also entirely possible that it's just a random weird cycle. Ugh -- I wish we could look ahead to see if the dose is good instead of only knowing in the past tense!
 
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