Frankie, Newly Diagnosed

[Dan and Frankie]

Hi & welcome! My name is Kat and Gobbles is my super-sweet sugar boy! He's a lantus user and I want to help you in any way I can. I get his Lantus for only $25! Here's how: Have your vet prescribe Frankie - Lantus Solostar Pens. These pens are sold in a 5 pack, which here in Ohio, costs about $225, however, some pharmacies will sell them one at a time. I called around and found a "mom & pop" pharmacy that sells singles. The cost of one single is $57, but there is a Lantus Solostar savings card that can be printed online and brought with you to the pharmacy: http://www.lantus.com/sign-up/default.aspx Click on "Sign Up & save up to $25....". My pharmacist honors the savings card and with the savings card, you pay only $25. A pen lasts me about 2 months; there are 260 units in it. The pens are hardier than the vials. If you get the pens, do not let the pharmacy talk you into buying the "needle tips"--you will not be able to use them and they are very costly. You will be inserting a syringe into the end of the pen (same way you draw insulin out of a vial).

Are you located in the states? I have some supplies I'd be willing to send you, if there is anything you can use: a box of 28 gauge lancets & about 3/4 box of 5/16" short U100 syringes (no half increments). Let me know

Please, please try to get Lantus (not Humulin or Vetsalin!!!!) for Frankie.

So why do I get the pens, when the 10ml vial is $143.19 at costco for the generic Glargine? Also Thank you for the offer I will PM you my address in a minute. I am in Phoenix AZ. Question, though... you say "no half increments" isint half increments what I want?

 

[MommaOfMuse]

One of the reasons you want the pens instead of the vial is because you get 5 pens to a package that you open one at a time, yes they are a little more pricey up front but with a pen which is only 3ml 0r 300 units you can use almost every drop in the pen before it starts to loose its punch, where as a vial is 10ml or 1000 units, most of the time the vial will begin to lose its punch after 2-3 months and will still be about half full by the time you need to throw it out because it is no longer effective. Most cats take very tiny doses of Lantus usually around .5u to 1u b.i.d. so you got a lot of shots to give before you use up an entire vial. With the pens even if something happens to one and it looses it effectiveness earlier than it should you are still throwing out far less insulin than you would with a vial.

Yes, you will eventually want syringes with .5u marks, I use the Walmart house brand syringes Relion 3/10cc,31 gauge, 5/16 " short needle for my girl and a box of 100 costs me a little over $12 all of the Relion 3/10 cc syringes have half unit marks even if the clerks behind the counter may tell you they don't carry them.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

[Dan and Frankie]

She ate 1/2 can of Friskies Pate!! :RAHCAT

Her BG was 526, but I think she more recently ate the rest of the food. Going to bed soon, so I will test her again in the morning... I think I'm a kindred pro at the testing... shes a little squirmish, but I think she knows I'm trying to help... and of course she loves the snuggles and praise she gets after done.... wow.... please don't tell anyone I just said that :shock:

 

[Dan and Frankie]

Here is her picture from after we just did the last test.

I am feeling 100% better than I did this morning and last night. Thank you for giving me and Frankie Hope!!

 

[TheBowHuntress]

She is beautiful and oh what captivating eyes!!!

 

[Denise & Honey]

So glad she is eating again - it is a roller coaster ride, but well worth it

 

[Blue]

She ate 1/2 can of Friskies Pate!! :RAHCAT

Her BG was 526, but I think she more recently ate the rest of the food. Going to bed soon, so I will test her again in the morning... I think I'm a kindred pro at the testing... shes a little squirmish, but I think she knows I'm trying to help... and of course she loves the snuggles and praise she gets after done.... wow.... please don't tell anyone I just said that :shock:

Please let her eat all that she wants..... until their BG is regulated, cats often have a HUGE appetite.
My two were sometimes eating 30oz and 24oz a day when they were very unregulated..... they dropped way down once their bodies were settling with the insulin, and got down to 10oz and 6oz a day later.

About the pens and vial.... another good reason for pens is this:
What if you drop the vial? You are out alot of cash there!
What if you drop or wreck a pen? Only 3ml lost compared to the 10ml of the vial!
On occasion, some have received a container of insulin that's a dud.... I would rather have a 3ml dud compared to a 10ml dud.


She really is a beauty; I bet with those eyes, she gets whatever she likes from you!
I am so glad she is home.

 

[KPassa]

Hi and Welcome!

You've already gotten some great advice. What glucometer did you end up getting?

I also agree with the others that the cheapest way to treat diabetes is to get them diet-controlled without ever needing insulin in the first place by switching them to low carb (less than 10%, the lower the better), wet food only. One suggestion I offer is to mix the Friskies with some water first. This helps her get re-hydrated better than drinking from a bowl ever could since cats don't really have a thirst mechanism because they "eat" their water in the wild. That's another reason dry food is so bad for them besides the carbs: no matter how much water they unnaturally consume from a bowl, it's never enough to make up for it missing from their food and they end up chronically dehydrated.

 

[TheBowHuntress]

So why do I get the pens, when the 10ml vial is $143.19 at costco for the generic Glargine? Also Thank you for the offer I will PM you my address in a minute. I am in Phoenix AZ. Question, though... you say "no half increments" isint half increments what I want?

MommaOfMuse answered your ? re: why do I get pens and she is exactly right. I didn't know someone had said "no half increments". I offered them, along with the lancets, because I did read your first post about being strapped for money. I didn't have time to read through your entire condo last night. Anyways, I started with the regular needles when Gobbles was on 1.0 U and even used them when he was on 1.5 U. However, when he was bumped up to 1.75 U., I had a hard time judging how much insulin to put in the needle, so I bought 1/2 U. needles. They are yours if you'd like them.

 

[TheBowHuntress]

Dan, regarding the coupon, I have to add that but we've found most pharmacies do not honor lantus and lev coupons when the script is written for a cat and caregivers being able to redeem them has been very hit or miss... mostly miss (cats do not fit the eligibility requirements). I am lucking enough to have found a pharmacy that will break down a pack and redeem the coupon. I hope that if you take that route, you will have the same luck

 

[Dan and Frankie]

So why do I get the pens, when the 10ml vial is $143.19 at costco for the generic Glargine? Also Thank you for the offer I will PM you my address in a minute. I am in Phoenix AZ. Question, though... you say "no half increments" isint half increments what I want?

MommaOfMuse answered your ? re: why do I get pens and she is exactly right. I didn't know someone had said "no half increments". I offered them, along with the lancets, because I did read your first post about being strapped for money. I didn't have time to read through your entire condo last night. Anyways, I started with the regular needles when Gobbles was on 1.0 U and even used them when he was on 1.5 U. However, when he was bumped up to 1.75 U., I had a hard time judging how much insulin to put in the needle, so I bought 1/2 U. needles. They are yours if you'd like them.

Like I said in the PM, I'll take anything that is offered and I will be sure to pay it forward when I can. As for my financials.... I am by no means in dire straits, I can afford to buy the prescription (as it seems that it is used over several months) contrary to what the vet was saying (hundreds of dollars a month. The looming issue is that I currently have a 5 1/2 year and we have identical twins on the way (Late July) The expenses, both medical and baby need) are mounting....we are taking hand me downs clothes, toys, equipment left and right... At first after the grim portrait painted by the vet, it looked like a death sentence for Frankie because I could not justify spending thousands of dollars on a cat when I had 2 babies being born in a few months a very unfortunate Sophie's Choice Scenario with the obvious answer being the babies. Anyways, now that I am hear I am confident that this can be managed relatively inexpensively and I feel good about the decision rather that feeling like I'm putting down my long time friend because I can't afford to take care of her.

Anyway, I tested before the ate (she was a little rough this morning) and was not cooperating as well...this might be because I brought the food into the bathroom with me before the test But he BG was 285 before she ate... may be a smidge of stress in there. So I am not sure what that means, but I am assuming it will spike after she eats. I'll test her around 9 if she finished her breakfast.

 

[Dan and Frankie]

"Please let her eat all that she wants..... until their BG is regulated, cats often have a HUGE appetite.
My two were sometimes eating 30oz and 24oz a day when they were very unregulated..... they dropped way down once their bodies were settling with the insulin, and got down to 10oz and 6oz a day later."

do I just keep it going? The other will eat until she pukes, so If I dot this I need to separate them

About the pens and vial.... another good reason for pens is this:
What if you drop the vial? You are out alot of cash there!
What if you drop or wreck a pen? Only 3ml lost compared to the 10ml of the vial!
On occasion, some have received a container of insulin that's a dud.... I would rather have a 3ml dud compared to a 10ml dud.

I got the gist here... So pens it is when we get there, but lets get there first

She really is a beauty; I bet with those eyes, she gets whatever she likes from you!
I am so glad she is home.

Thank you, shes the pretty princess

 

[MommaOfMuse]

Glad you are feeling better about treating Frankie...plus this will be a great learning experience for your 5 1/2 year old. Because you can use Frankie's diabetes as a great way to teach that animals are forever responsibility and that when one is sick you don't just throw them away.

I have to tell you I have 14 cats (2 of which are diabetic), a large 97lb drooler, and my husband and I manage them all on a single income. Not going to lie some weeks are tight, but they would be tight regardless since my husband who's the income is a commerical roofer and we are in the middle of winter so it is always tight this time of year, but honestly my diabetics cost me very little more than my regular non-diabetic cats. Post diagnoises neither have seen the vet anymore than any of my other animals. While keeping them all on an all canned diet is pricey it is offset by the fewer trips to the vets, less litter used, and just plain healthier and happier cats.

One way to keep the other one from a scarf and barf, is to mix water with the food, and spread it on a plate rather than in a bowl, it that doesn't slow her down enough, place a small bowl upside down on the plate so she has to work around it to eat. What I discovered with all of mine was in the beginning they all went nuts on the canned food, they thought they has hit the jackpot when mom and dad brought home a sugarcat and took away the cereal and finally gave them the good stuff. Within a day or two when they figured out that this was the new norm, they stopped scarfing it all down on site and went back to eating like normal cats again.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

[Dan and Frankie]

I know it was asked again.. but I'm not sure who asked... the tester I got was the Relion Confirm. I only picked up 20 test strips, and will need to get more in a bit. What I am trying to figure out is what are the next steps?

Frankie has eaten all of he breakfast and I'll be testing her again in a few. Should I get her some more food and mix it with water after I test? Also how much food water ratio? I've been giving her a half a can.

 

[BJM]

In a pinch, if you don't have syringes with half unit markings, and need them, you can make a reference gauge

(I'm so glad that geometry stuck with my brain!)

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Dan

I know Frankie is underweight and she needs to eat, but it is not true that an unregulated diabetic cat should be allowed to eat as much as they would like. please take a few seconds to read this post on Feed Kiity as Much as They Want?.

It's best to determine what her ideal weight is and then feed the number of calories per day to get her there. A good formula for maintenance is 20 calories/lb per day so I'd use higher than that for her. Weigh her, feed her 25-30 calories per pound per day, weigh her again in a week....is she gaining? Keep checking her weight and adjusting the calories per day as needed.

Also...you have to be very careful at leaving her at high numbers for very long. Even if she has been a dry food kitty and may make progress once the dry is completely taken away, alot of these kitties still need insulin for a short amount of time. They might not need much or need it long but diabetes wreaks havoc on the body and if her BG doesnt come down to normal very very soon with wet food, you are risking that she could become insulin resistant.

If she can be a diet controlled diabetic, you would probably see her BG come down significantly fairly fast if she is fed only a low carb canned or raw diet. I don't think you should wait long to make a decision on whether to give her insulin. Sometimes even just a few shots works ....we recently had a kitty fed dry food in the Lantus IG forum and I think he got perhaps six shots and his BG came down and he went into remission...of course, he had been switched to wet food.

 

[TheBowHuntress]

A number in the 200s is not a bad thing Gobbles was 410 this a.m. and he is slowly coming down.

I didn't get your PM; can you try to send it again? Do you want the lancets and the syringes? or just the lancets?

Have a great day!

 

[macal]

Sounds like the next step is to call around various vet offices and find one that believes in home blood glucose curves etc and is willing to let you test and figure out dosing at home. That way you can switch your kitties records over to the new vet, get your prescription, have a demo of how to inject and a reliable well trained vet who's on board and familiar with your cat and your situation should there be any troubles. My vet
was one of those who let me do the curves at home, didn't believe in hospitalization unless they were very ill from side effects of diabetes (ketoacidosis etc). I brought in my BG values every once in a while and received dose advice both from the vet and from the members here on the board. Take it slowly. Each vet visit was only a general exam fee, unless I had Molly's fructosamine level measured (which I did after her diet change just to see if it had solved the issue....no luck, had to go to insulin).
If Frankie is completely off the dry food and there's no external sources she might be getting into (sneaking into dog food, neighborhood cat food or treats....be careful, many of the sliced meats and rotisserie chickens etc have dextrose added which is of course going to cause her BG to spike), you're ready to begin. 1st step is to find a vet who is willing to consult for just a general exam fee and likes to use the insulin you've chosen. Sounds like you're leaning towards lantus and that's great! (They always want to see a new patient at least once just to get an idea of general health)....no testing needed, your previous vet already did that, just ask to have the records transferred before your appointment. Bring in the BG values you've taken so far as well for reference. They might want to do something called a fructosamine blood test which gives an average BG value for the past 2 weeks to prove to themselves that diabetes is really what's going on. This test is about 80-90.00. If you have your BG values with you, you can convince them this test is not necessary as it's obvious Frankie's much higher than she should be. If they're aware that you've got budget restrictions, they'd be crazy not to cooperate with you.
The sooner you start treating, the sooner she's going to start healing and feeling much better, but take it slowly. Mistakes with insulin can be fatal or very costly, so it's better to err on the side of caution, learn to measure the syringe and inject properly and how to handle and store the insulin properly, and an in person demo from a supportive vet.
Have you read about ketones and ketoacidosis yet? If not, educating yourself about this side effect of untreated diabetes is important. Once Frankie's on insulin and regulated you won't have to worry much about that at all, but at the moment, it is a risk.

 

[Dan and Frankie]

She just tested at 417 (about 2 hours after eating breakfast) Pre meal she was 285. I gave her another half can of friskies pate and put some water in it and mixed it up. She took right to it. I will have to contact some of the decremented local vets to see about getting the prescription, but I need to get the papers from my other vet 1st. I do need to focus on getting some work done today, so I will need to get stuff done that did not get done yesterday and try to get caught up. All of this is futile if I wreck my reputation as a top producer and reliability is a key focus. So I will check in here on an off today, but I need to shift focus to getting some work done right now.

 

[TheBowHuntress]

She just tested at 417 (about 2 hours after eating breakfast) Pre meal she was 285. I gave her another half can of friskies pate and put some water in it and mixed it up. She took right to it. I will have to contact some of the decremented local vets to see about getting the prescription, but I need to get the papers from my other vet 1st. I do need to focus on getting some work done today, so I will need to get stuff done that did not get done yesterday and try to get caught up. All of this is futile if I wreck my reputation as a top producer and reliability is a key focus. So I will check in here on an off today, but I need to shift focus to getting some work done right now.

You are truly doing an awesome job! Take some time for yourself and have a great day with your work

 

[Dan and Frankie]

A number in the 200s is not a bad thing Gobbles was 410 this a.m. and he is slowly coming down.

I didn't get your PM; can you try to send it again? Do you want the lancets and the syringes? or just the lancets?

Have a great day!

PM Re Sent

 

[Dan and Frankie]

Have you read about ketones and ketoacidosis yet? If not, educating yourself about this side effect of untreated diabetes is important. Once Frankie's on insulin and regulated you won't have to worry much about that at all, but at the moment, it is a risk.

I have read about it, I have not gotten the test for it yet and at this time I have just been monitoring her BG before and after meals... trying to get a feel for what is going on and get her acclimated to testing regularly. So far I have been successful, but She is defiantly not happy about getting poked. I am trying to make it as simple and painless as possible, however, I am finding the need to poke several times to get a sample and that is not helping her stress level, or mine. I have been petting her and rubbing her hear before we test to try to warm up the blood in the ear. I am testing opposite ears per test, I am also putting the tissue behind the ear (she does not like) and poking at the far edge of the ear lobe. Sometimes I'll get a good sample poke, but she will bolt and it gets all over and I have to re poke her. I know she and I will get it eventually and it will be normal routine, but it is tough ATM and I really have to shift focus on getting some work done. I will probably let her out of the bathroom after I've confirmed she has eaten the food I gave her earlier and not test or feed her again until this evening at normal feeding time.

 

[TheBowHuntress]

t She is defiantly not happy about getting poked. I am trying to make it as simple and painless as possible, however, I am finding the need to poke several times to get a sample and that is not helping her stress level, or mine. I have been petting her and rubbing her hear before we test to try to warm up the blood in the ear. I am testing opposite ears per test, I am also putting the tissue behind the ear (she does not like) and poking at the far edge of the ear lobe. Sometimes I'll get a good sample poke, but she will bolt and it gets all over and I have to re poke her.

I test Gobbles back paw pads more than his ears. It doesn't phase him; he doesn't even flinch. Most importantly, if you do test the paw pads, be sure to put triple antibiotic w/pain relief on after testing. I also tried it on my civvies--they didn't flinch either. I just sit on the floor or the couch, put him on my lap facing away, grabbed his foot, poke, grab the glucometer & strip, strip blood, apply pressure, apply ointment. I've never had a problem with infections or callouses...if anything, its a good respite from ears once in a while...

 

[Dr Schrodinger]

I have read about it, I have not gotten the test for it yet and at this time I have just been monitoring her BG before and after meals... trying to get a feel for what is going on and get her acclimated to testing regularly. So far I have been successful, but She is defiantly not happy about getting poked. I am trying to make it as simple and painless as possible, however, I am finding the need to poke several times to get a sample and that is not helping her stress level, or mine.

See if you can start associating the 'stress' time with treats? are there any low carb treats around, or even bits of boiled chicken you can give her each time you give her a poke? The sooner she associates getting a poke with getting a treat, the better for you both. She may even start asking you to give her a blood test with time!

I am also putting the tissue behind the ear (she does not like) and poking at the far edge of the ear lobe. .

Mine would not tolerate me holding anything on the inside of his ear. It's not really suprising as their are a lot of sensitive hairs in there. Don't tell anyone else, but I gave up with cotton pads & toilet roll wads & now just poke it against the callouses on my finger. Not pretty, but it does the job, and my kitty gets an ear rub at the same time. I also hold him like a set of bagpipes, with his back end tucked under my arm, so he gets a cuddle too.

I am testing opposite ears per test,

It might be worth sticking to just the one ear. As you keep breaking the skin & bursting the tiny capillaries, the tissue will 'revascularise' & more blood vessels will grow in their place. As more vessels grow, then the ear 'learns' to bleed & it will get easier to get a decent sized bead of blood that you can test.

You're doing really well. Keep going!

cat_pet_icon

 

[Dan and Frankie]

Is white Albacore Tuna good for treats?

 

[MommaOfMuse]

As long as it is in water it is fine, but read the label to make sure it is just tuna and water without anything else like broth which may or may not contain spices or sugar.

For my girl I just boil chicken breast in plain water and chop them into bite sizes pieces, but then again I have 14 cats so if one gets treats they all want them and chicken is far cheaper to hand out to everyone that shows up at test time than commerical treats...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

[Dan and Frankie]

As long as it is in water it is fine, but read the label to make sure it is just tuna and water without anything else like broth which may or may not contain spices or sugar.

For my girl I just boil chicken breast in plain water and chop them into bite sizes pieces, but then again I have 14 cats so if one gets treats they all want them and chicken is far cheaper to hand out to everyone that shows up at test time than commerical treats...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

Just for now.... I have Abacore Tuna in the packets, not can... Ingredients list is White Tuna, Water Vegetable Broth and Pyrophosphate

 

[nckitties3]

Hi Hon, although I've been watching, I haven't chimed in, being a 7 week newbee myself. @-)

I just wanted to add, that my Lucian was very difficult to test and using the 'kitty burrito' method was the only way I could do it. I sit him in my lap, he doesn't want to lay down, and wrap a towel around him, from the neck down, snug it up and criss crossed in the back. This puts him in a cocoon, kind of like swaddling a newborn. He's not going anywhere and I can get the test done. It took about a month of using the towel before I could test him without it. Even now, I still use it if I have to warm his ear, due to the time it takes. If no warming is required, I don't need the towel, since I have the test down to a matter of seconds. Some cats are calmer when they can't do anything about it, some fight even worse, but it's worth a try, whatever it takes to keep track of their BG's is a good thing. Plus, it keeps you from getting shredded! :lol: I thought I would need stitches before it was over! :lol:

You are doing a fantastic job! :thumbup

Only other thing I would add is about food......someone, I can't remember who, explain to me just HOW cats get food in their mouths. When a cat eats dry, it flicks the piece into the mouth with it's tongue. Very difficult to flick wet, soft food, so they actually have to learn to eat it. Mixing with water helps and they need all the water they can get. I make 'cat food soup' a couple times a day and during other feedings, I take 1/4 - 1/2 a can and cut it in little cubes the size of dry food pieces with a thin sharp knife and they are able to flick it a little better. :lol: I still have a civvie that's not too keen on the wet food, but she's getting used to it.

Hang in there, the multitude of information can be overwhelming, but you'll get it and Frankie will be healthier and happier for your efforts. cat_pet_icon

As per the tuna, the veggie broth might be a problem.

 

[Dan and Frankie]

I'll hold off on the tuna and get some chicken breast thawing. Both of my cats are used to eating wet food, but not as their only food. She did not eat much of the food I mixed with water. I don't know if this is going to work for her... she is drinking water though and she is peeing.

 

[nckitties3]

Don't get frustrated, it WILL work, it just takes time. She is having so many new things thrown at her, she's pretty overwhelmed too. Relax and breathe, it's not gonna happen in a day. As Mel has told me numerous times in the last 7 weeks..."Its a marathon, not a sprint". Thank you Mel, for your patience!

You're doing great! :thumbup

 

[Dan and Frankie]

One of the other problems that I am having is my Wife's Take on this whole thing.... she seemed very stoic when we decided to put her down, but now that I have decided to take this on, she is very upset because she thinks it is going to cost too much and that it will be impossible to manage when our babies come. She is not as compassionate about animals as I am, so her logic is flawed and being 4.5 months preggers with twins is not helping on the hormonal side.... This is a battle I am dealing with right now as well... she has seemed to come off it, and I don't want to upset her, but there is no way I am putting down a cat that I feel is perfectly happy, and just needs help.

 

[nckitties3]

There is no logic with pregnant women. Good luck with that one.

You sure have a double whammy going on. :lol: Ya gotta laugh, it takes too much energy to cry and you need that energy to 'deal' with wifey and kitty.

 

[Denise & Honey]

A lot of us use freeze dried chicken - my cats were all on dry food until Honey's dx and I think this treat appeals to them because of that.
I just shake the bag and they all come running!

You can also try FancyFeast Appertizers for around $1.25 at Walmart - sometimes cheaper.
I would give Honey a little at each poke - so it would last about 5/6 times. I've also crushed pills in it if needed.
Mine loved the really smelly Tuna ones.

The testing gets easier as their ears start to bleed better. I could never get a good result on the outside part of the ear so I test on the inside rim - less hairs so the blood doesn't spread. I still use vaseline to make the blood bead up.

 

[Dan and Frankie]

Yeah, I think I'm gonna put the Chicken Breasts away... thats a lot of food to waste. I'll pick up some treats later when I go to pick up Jacob from school.

 

[MommaOfMuse]

While this may not be the right time since your wife is preggers but ask her this...if one or both of the twins were born diabetic...would she want to treat them or if it was an option with a human put them down? And the thing with cats is so many of them go off insulin and are just controlled by diet alone, I have one guy that has been insulin free for over 2 years.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

[nckitties3]

If you can find the PureBites freeze dried treats, you have a selection of flavors, I think they come in chicken, turkey, fish, shrimp and liver.

I tried them all, the only one Lucian will eat is the liver and it's like kitty crack to him! :lol:

Petsmart carries them, if you have one nearby. You can also get larger bags, designed for dogs, which makes it much cheaper, you just break the pieces. Petsmart also carries another brand called Simply Nourish that is 100% freeze dried meats, in various flavors. The 5oz bag is $9 and lasts Lucian about 3 weeks and he gets them often. It is in the dog treat section. The Purebites cat treats are .88 oz I believe and are 2.99 at Petsmart. Plus, you can get bigger bags of Purebites at Amazon (use the link up top) for dogs, much cheaper than the stores and break them. Treats are really important, kitty will come to associate testing with a yummy treat and not be so apt to fight you.

A dear friend once told me years ago "When you have an edge, USE IT" and that rings true here also.

 

[Dan and Frankie]

While this may not be the right time since your wife is preggers but ask her this...if one or both of the twins were born diabetic...would she want to treat them or if it was an option with a human put them down? And the thing with cats is so many of them go off insulin and are just controlled by diet alone, I have one guy that has been insulin free for over 2 years.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

You are Brave... but I tried that approach with using myself as the example, not the babies... didnt go well... I think we got it under control now

 

[MommaOfMuse]

LOL I can afford to be brave...I'm all the way in Nebraska...<giggle>

And I still remember how out of control my emotions where when I was pregnant about 28 years ago...and actually caring for a diabetic cat is far easier and less expensive than children..my two were 11 months apart in age which is as close to having twins as I ever want to get. haha_smiley So I think your wife is the Brave one...

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

[KPassa]

Dan

I know Frankie is underweight and she needs to eat, but it is not true that an unregulated diabetic cat should be allowed to eat as much as they would like. please take a few seconds to read this post on Feed Kiity as Much as They Want?.

It's best to determine what her ideal weight is and then feed the number of calories per day to get her there. A good formula for maintenance is 20 calories/lb per day so I'd use higher than that for her. Weigh her, feed her 25-30 calories per pound per day, weigh her again in a week....is she gaining? Keep checking her weight and adjusting the calories per day as needed.

That is a great formula and way easier to remember than that whole 13.6(X)+70 thing. Thanks, Marje! Something that helped me make sure my kitty was getting enough calories is "round big" his approximate daily caloric need. For example if he needed 250 calories/day, it was very rare that he actually would eat ~250 calories each day; it turned out that some days, he'd eat only 200 calories, other days, he might eat 300 calories. So, what I did was make sure he was averaging between 200 to 300 calories every day. Of course, ECID (Every Cat Is Different), so Frankie might be consistent in her eating and you won't have to worry about this or maybe just need a smaller window (like a range from 250 to 300 calories a day).

Mine would not tolerate me holding anything on the inside of his ear. It's not really suprising as their are a lot of sensitive hairs in there. Don't tell anyone else, but I gave up with cotton pads & toilet roll wads & now just poke it against the callouses on my finger. Not pretty, but it does the job, and my kitty gets an ear rub at the same time. I also hold him like a set of bagpipes, with his back end tucked under my arm, so he gets a cuddle too.

Guilty of this, too. I look at it that if I poke through the ear and hit my finger, then I'm doing it too hard. :lol: Michelangelo is super-sensitive already and even the neosporin bothered his ears to the point that I had to switch to vetericyn instead. Until I ditched the tissue on the inside of the ear, it was a constant battle for the two of us where I knew I was pissing him off and he knew I was trying to help but wasn't too happy about it.

Dr. Schrodinger is also correct that the ears learn to bleed better and some ears even bleed better than others. With Mikey's right ear, I can get a sample every time with one (rarely 2) pokes. His left ear, on the other hand, requires 3 pokes minimum before I might see a drop of blood (and even then, it's usually too small so I have to "milk" it). Not sure if someone has already shared this with you, but here are some additional ear testing tips that cover most of the difficulties that come with testing.

Is white Albacore Tuna good for treats?

Treatwise, I generally look for any freeze-dried meats that contain pure protein and no other ingredients (eg "Premium Chicken Pieces"). Half the time, I end up buying the dog treats instead because you get a bigger bag for a cheaper price (although you do have to break up the treats into smaller pieces, usually).

One of the other problems that I am having is my Wife's Take on this whole thing.... she seemed very stoic when we decided to put her down, but now that I have decided to take this on, she is very upset because she thinks it is going to cost too much and that it will be impossible to manage when our babies come. She is not as compassionate about animals as I am, so her logic is flawed and being 4.5 months preggers with twins is not helping on the hormonal side.... This is a battle I am dealing with right now as well... she has seemed to come off it, and I don't want to upset her, but there is no way I am putting down a cat that I feel is perfectly happy, and just needs help.

Sometimes, the only way to solve that problem is to let the evidence speak for itself in a couple of weeks when Frankie turns back into the kitten she once was. Heck, you'll even see a change for the better in Mollie just from changing their food.

 

[macal]

Testing gets easier. I was amazed you just went ahead and tested and actually came up with a reading the first time.....you're doing great! After you get into a routine and Frankie knows what's happening and what to expect and that a reward (treat) is coming immediately after, she'll start to relax and sit through the annoying part to get to the good part (and you'll relax too) which makes it all much easier! Also the little vessels begin to dilate a little and give sample more readily. It's a gradual thing. The same thing occurs with giving the insulin, the first few days are nerve wracking (mostly for you) and then it gets easier and easier and easier......
You're in the hardest part of the whole thing right now.
For the testing, you may find that a cotton ball works better for opposing pressure when using the lancet than putting tissue in her ear....it doesn't make strange sounds and is just the right size.

 

[Dan and Frankie]

Testing gets easier. I was amazed you just went ahead and tested and actually came up with a reading the first time.....you're doing great! Thank you, I maintain a reef aquarium, so testing is something I am used to.... although water does not thrash around when you test it :lol: .

You're in the hardest part of the whole thing right now. I understand that persistence is key... another quality obtained by maintaining reef aquariums


For the testing, you may find that a cotton ball works better for opposing pressure when using the lancet than putting tissue in her ear....it doesn't make strange sounds and is just the right size.

I will definatly give that a try... she hearse the wrinkling of the tissue paper and gets pretty restless

 

[Hope + (((Baby)))GA]

Dan, cosmetic pads, round ones, worked beautifully. I hold it under the ear and then just roll part of it over the top of the ear after sticking. Does patience also come with maintaining reef aquariums because patience is definitely needed Congrats on getting the first test done too.

 

[Dan and Frankie]

Dan, cosmetic pads, round ones, worked beautifully. I hold it under the ear and then just roll part of it over the top of the ear after sticking. Does patience also come with maintaining reef aquariums because patience is definitely needed Congrats on getting the first test done too.

One of the long forgotten, but yes ;-)

 

[Dan and Frankie]

Got some freeze dried chicken breast bites from Petco... I will try them when I test before dinner. Hope those work.... I will be sure to rattle the bag and get her trained on the fact that its treat time :mrgreen:

 

[Denise & Honey]

2 of my cats loved the freeze dried treats straight off.
The other civie has recently started coming around to them but he's in love with them now, too!

 

[Dan and Frankie]

Tested at 314 and she is eating wet. The treats didn't distract her much, but she does like them, so over time, I'm sure it will work out.

 

[KPassa]

The treats didn't distract her much, but she does like them, so over time, I'm sure it will work out.

Yes, that's definitely Michelangelo. He likes the treats well enough, but sometimes he just can't be bothered. My other cat Henry, however, is insanely @-) addicted to treats. All I have to do is open anything ziplocked and he comes running from the farthest reaches of the house because he's thinking he's going to get a treat. And because Mikey isn't fast enough (or doesn't care to eat it fast enough), the second Henry's finished eating his own treat, he immediately goes after Michelangelo's (and succeeds in getting it about 90% of the time). I end up handing out waaay too many treats because of that little punk. :roll:

 

[Dan and Frankie]

Frankie tested at 314 before dinner and just tested her at 349... I don't know exactly how much she ate because I fed them together today... I had her on the counter for a bit so I know she ate some and I have seen her go back to the food a few times. I used a towel this time to get the test and it was sooo much easier... she did squirm, but I got her in 1 poke and it was so much less stress on both of us. Thanks Again!!

I end up handing out waaay too many treats because of that little punk

I see this happening once Mollie catches on.... I already see a bit of the jealousy factor from her because the extra attention Frankie is getting...On the bright side, regardless of getting treat happy, I think Mollie will lose weight and probably stop puking up dry food all over the place... binge an purging and all :lol:

 

[Dan and Frankie]

I'm heading to bed. Frankie is doing well...already feels like she is gaining weight and is up and about the house. I am picking up some surplus Lantus and supplies in the morning. I thought I would share some pictures from when they were babies as thanks for all the help so far :smile:

 

[Denise & Honey]

They were (are) so cute!
So you hand-reared them? That really must have been hard work but a real bond too!