First impression - Speeadsheet

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Sofia

Sofia

Member Since 2022
I put together the start of my spreadsheet last night, could anyone have a quick look please and tell me what you think? I honestly think it’s a hot mess. From what my vet told me, the insulin can’t exceed 1Unit per kg of cat, Thor is 3kg and is getting 1.5 units am and 1.5 units pm, therefore dose increase isn’t an option. Maybe I’m just being impatient!
 
Hi Sofia and Thor.
Well done setting up the spreadsheet and starting to test the blood glucose. That is great!
With that green 76 and 96 during one of the cycles, that is telling me you do not want to increase the dose of insulin. A lot of the red and black numbers you are seeing could well be caused by bouncing from low numbers.
Here is an explanation of Bouncing from the yellow sticky The Basics on the Lantus page.
  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

I’m not a Caninsulin user so I will tag @FrostD to comment on the dose.

I do want to comment on the insulin you are using though…..Caninsulin is not really a suitable insulin for cats. It is an insulin which was made for dogs. And it does not last the 12 hours so you will find he will go back up into high numbers well before the next dose is due. The recommended insulins for cats are Lantus, Levemir and Prozinc, which are longer acting more gentle insulins and you are much more likely to get better results if you swap to one of those.

Are you feeding the preshot meal 1/2 hour before the dose is given and are you offering snacks during the first half of all the cycles?
I can see you are living in Italy. I would ask your vet if you can change to Lantus. I’m not sure they have Prozinc there. Lantus is an excellent insulin.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Sofia and Thor.
Well done setting up the spreadsheet and starting to test the blood glucose. That is great!
With that green 76 and 96 during one of the cycles, that is telling me you do not want to increase the dose of insulin. A lot of the red and black numbers you are seeing could well be caused by bouncing from low numbers.
Here is an explanation of Bouncing from the yellow sticky The Basics on the Lantus page.
  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

I’m not a Caninsulin user so I will tag @FrostD to comment on the dose.

I do want to comment on the insulin you are using though…..Caninsulin is not really a suitable insulin for cats. It is an insulin which was made for dogs. And it does not last the 12 hours so you will find he will go back up into high numbers well before the next dose is due. The recommended insulins for cats are Lantus, Levemir and Prozinc, which are longer acting more gentle insulins and you are much more likely to get better results if you swap to one of those.

Are you feeding the preshot meal 1/2 hour before the dose is given and are you offering snacks during the first half of all the cycles?
I can see you are living in Italy. I would ask your vet if you can change to Lantus. I’m not sure they have Prozinc there. Lantus is an excellent insulin.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply! The use of Caninsulin… I’ve already brought this up with my vet and asked about other possible options, simply based on everything I’ve read and I was given a whole long story which I think was more aimed at confusing me , ending in being told that Caninsulin is proven to be most efficient in cats. This was just the beginning and I wasn’t ready to argue already. I will most definitely ask again more directly if it’s possible to change!
Pre-shot meal 1/2hour before dose… no. I didn't know I should. I test, feed, make sure he’s eating well and give him his shot while he’s distracted by food. Would it be better to do it differently? He snacks in the sense that he has a few mini meals throughout the day, not meals, more like a heaped teaspoon scoop of mousse. He’s very often hungry looking for food.
 
Sofia said:
Pre-shot meal 1/2hour before dose… no. I didn't know I should. I test, feed, make sure he’s eating well and give him his shot while he’s distracted by food. Would it be better to do it differently? He snacks in the sense that he has a few mini meals throughout the day, not meals, more like a heaped teaspoon scoop of mousse. He’s very often hungry looking for food.
Click to expand...
Yes please feed him 1/2 hour before you give the dose of insulin. That is because Caninsulin hits quite hard and fast and he needs to have food aboard him for when the insulin hits. You can give him another little snack when you give the dose to distract him.
Those mini meals sound perfect! Do you also give him the same snacks for the pm cycle?
Because he is not regulated, his body can’t utilise all the nutrients in the food so he will be hungry. As long as he is not overweight, you can feed him more.


Sofia said:
The use of Caninsulin… I’ve already brought this up with my vet and asked about other possible options, simply based on everything I’ve read and I was given a whole long story which I think was more aimed at confusing me , ending in being told that Caninsulin is proven to be most efficient in cats. This was just the beginning and I wasn’t ready to argue already. I will most definitely ask again more directly if it’s possible to change!
Click to expand...
Your vet is not well informed about feline diabetes. Caninsulin is definitely not the most efficient in cats. The longer acting, more gentle insulin are far superior to Caninsulin. I would just tell him you want to change insulin ……Thor is your date and it is your choice and you pay the bills!
 
Those are some incredibly harsh swings. Just from my experience here, he will not become regulated on Caninsulin and you really should switch. Cats that see these swings/have this strong reaction to Caninsulin just continue to do this, no matter how long you stay at it. Bron explained the bouncing, about the only thing you can do to minimize the swings is to feed medium or high carb food at shot time and those first few hours after the shot - but it's kind of shooting yourself in the foot adding carbs.

Since you are using the term Caninsulin I am guessing you're in the UK? I know there's a cascade system there, the next insulin you would have to try is ProZinc. In order to use the human insulins like Lantus you would have to prove the ProZinc doesn't work.

Here's a link to AAHA Diabetes Management Guide - https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guidelines/diabetes-management/diabetes-management-home/

It's an American institution but this way you can at least see that Caninsulin/Vetsulin is not recommended here.
 
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