Dosing questions

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Stacym20

Stacym20

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Buds numbers are all over the place. I thought his dose was too high but ever since I lowered it, I'm not getting as low of numbers, although I am getting 2 shoot able numbers. Sorry I don't have a spreadsheet, I'm on my phone.

11/27 PMPS 93 No shot
11/28 AMPS 398 1.6 units
11/28 PMPS 344 1.6 units
11/29 AMPS 193 0.8 units
11/29 PMPS 146 No shot
11/30 AMPS 364 1.6 units
11/30 PMPS 154 No shot
12/1 AMPS 420 1.2 units
12/1 PMPS 115 No shot
12/2 AMPS 445 1.2 units
12/2 PMPS 279 1.2 units
12/2 +2 156
12/3 AMPS 447 1.2 units
12/3 PMPS 332 1.2 units
12/4 AMPS 296 0.8 units
12/4 PMPS 492 1.2 units

So my questions are:
1. Do I dose based on his number or do you try to keep the dose the same every time?
2. Does it look like I should go back to the 1.6 units or stick with the 1.2 for a while?

I don't know what I'm doing. Help please!
 
Well I might try 1.4 and be around to monitor. That way, you can move up some and hopefully get some lower preshots, but not push him so low that you can't shoot. That's just my thought...I'm sure others will be along soon to give their thoughts too. :-D

Generally, we base the dose on the numbers. However, we use both preshot numbers and nadirs (mid cycles). Would it be possible for you to get some mid cycle numbers? Usually the nadir is between +5 and +7. The reason we need that is because we want to see how low the dose brings him. It also helps us figure out if there is bouncing going on. The numbers you are getting seem to be all over the place. It makes me wonder if he is heading really low and then bouncing for his preshots. Some nadirs could be helpful to figure out if that is the issue.
 
I plan on getting some mid cycle numbers Saturday since I can actually be home that day. I can get a +2 or +3 before I go to bed tonight too. I was so happy to get those low numbers, but yeah, I realize that means he could have gone really low before that. This is so frustrating but he is gaining weight. He needed to so badly, he doesn't look pathetically thin anymore so that's a plus. :)
 
1. Do I dose based on his number or do you try to keep the dose the same every time?
2. Does it look like I should go back to the 1.6 units or stick with the 1.2 for a while?
Click to expand...

Hi Stacy,
Glad you made your way over here. (I have been replying to you on Health; I post on both boards) It is the best place to get dosing advice. It's good to check out other people's spreadsheets too and see how they are dosing. If you ever need immediate advice, post on Health also as it is a bigger forum.


You can do a sliding scale or stick with the same dose. Some cats do well with one; some do well with the other. I think it is smart to be ready to lower the dose whenever you get a lower nadir or a lower preshot than you are used to, even if you generally give the same dose.

I'm with Rachel. 1.4 might be nice but it would be good if you had some midcycle numbers first. Maybe get a curve on Saturday, and if there are not low nadirs, then increase on Sunday when you can monitor?

Is there any way you can maintain a spreadsheet? Do you have any access to a desktop (at work?) i can set it up for you if you can find a place to add data. The reason I think it would be wise is that he is all over the place and it is hard to see that with just the list. He has had some lower preshots that would be easier to put in the picture with a spreadsheet.
 
I think I got it? Now I just need to put the link on my signature, right? We're not supposed to be on the internet at work. Shhhhhhhhhh!!! lol I'll be back at lunch to see if I can get the link in my signature but someone please let me know if my link doesn't even work.
 
I have to send it to you so I need an email and give you permission to add data. I'll make you the "owner" and then you can add it to your signature. So send me a private message.(pm button on this post) with an email address.
 
I was wondering because I couldn't figure out how to edit it so I wound up starting another one, and it has updated data on his +2 last night and his number this morning. So can you tell me if that link above is working?
 
Yes, that link in the post above works. Now you have to add it to your signature (on the control panel). If you want it to say Bud's SS instead of the long url, do this

At the beginnng of the long url, add

Bud's ss
 
Hurray! Great job. It is so good for us to see the whole picture and the colors are so helpful. When really jumps out for me is that, without those 5-7 hour numbers, we are "shooting" :mrgreen: in the dark. He does got down into blues at +2 at night so it's posible he is dropping low during the day. If so, the preshots might be bounces.

Can't wait to see your numbers this weekend.
 
Bud was 445 at PMPS just now and I think I did a fur shot. It will be interesting to see what his morning number is. So I plan to do a curve tomorrow. I'll be in and out a little but tomorrow and it looks like I will catch a +1, +3, +5, +7, +9 and +11. It doesn't matter that I'll catch the odd hours instead of the evens right?
 
Those times should be fine. You might skip the +1. Unlikely you'll see much change from the amps and you might see a slight rise then because of food.
 
Bud's AMPS was 373. +3 was 148 and +5 just now is 56. He's acting fine and he's munching on some FF right now. I gave him 1.4 units this morning. I'll see what his +7 is but it looks like maybe I need to go down on his dose right?
 
Yep :mrgreen: The food will probably bring him up, but you want to make sure he is indeed rising and that he stays up. That was a really fast drop so yes, I am thinking down in dose rather than up. (this is a great example of why you can't just rely on preshots for dosing. He has probably been dropping low for nadirs and bouncing back up for preshots.)

So let's see what tonight looks like. It could be a long cycle with a preshot that isn't that high, or he could bounce back up into the pinks. Right now, it is looking like 1.4 is too high, but a whole lot too high - unless he continues to drop. 56 is not a dangerous nadir as long as that's as low as he goes. But I am glad you are around to give him some food. And watch him.
 
So do you think I should go down to 1.2 or just 1 unit? +6 just now was 76 so he's doing good. He's been on my lap the last hour so I haven't had to go too far to watch him. :)
 
I'm guessing 1.2, if he comes up to 300 or so. If he is only 200 or lower, then maybe less. I'll be around tonight and keep an eye out for your pmps.
 
Wow! What a drop! Like Sue said earlier, I'm thinking those higher preshots have been bounces. If he's been dropping low at nadir, that would explain the higher preshots. I'm inclined to agree that 1.2 units might be a safe bet for a preshot in the 300s today. It will be interesting to see what his PMPS is.

Great job on doing the curve today! I think it gave some really valuable info. I know it's tough to get nadirs, but when you are around, try to get some. It doesn't have to be an all day curve like this, but a number at nadir can help us determine if the dose he's getting needs to change and how it needs to change. I used to get nadirs just on the weekend basically, with the occasional nighttime nadir. You're doing great!!
 
Well +10 was 77 and PMPS just now is 95 so I'm thinking no shot for tonight. Do you think maybe tomorrow morning if he's over 300 I should just do one unit? I'll only be around to +2 and when I get home it will be about +7 so I can grab a mid cycle test tomorrow at least. Thanks for all your help!!
 
Hmmm didn't see that coming. Oh that sugar dance!! :lol:

I'll be interested to see the Numbers tomorrow. 1 unit definitely sounds good!
 
413 just now, so I guess there's the bounce? Is bouncing the result of too high of a dose? It will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow!
 
Maybe a bounce and probably also that the insulin is gone.. (+15, right?). Bouncing is when the body senses a number lower than it is used to and then it releases extra sugar. So that extra sugar causes the number to jump up. The cycle was long but it looks like the insulin eventually ran out.

So he will be fairly high in the am. If he is very high, maybe try 1.2 again? (I think one unit would be good if he had gotten a shootable number at pmps or if you get a preshot in that 200 a 250 range). What are you thinking?
 
Yeah that was +14.5. I'm just so confused what the bouncing thing is all about that I didn't even think about the number being high because the insulin wore off. Duh lol. I like your idea of trying 1.2 if he's high in the morning, which I'm suspecting he will be. And I will catch a mid cycle number tomorrow as soon as I get home. I really can't thank you enough for helping me through this!!
 
I'd give it cycle or two.He may have been lower 2 hours ago and be on his way back up. This number is still 50% from his amps, not bad.

Can you add your numbers from yesterday? They give the bigger picture of what has been going on.
 
Ok I have everything added. I actually think I will stick with 1.2 as long as he's over 300 until at least Saturday when I can grab some more mid cycle numbers. Don't you think? I'd hate to give him too much and not be here to watch him. It's just so frustrating getting those high numbers, but there has been so many improvements in him in the last month. That has been reassuring at least. He's gained weight, he's playing, he's grooming himself, etc.
 
I agree that 1.2 for over 300 makes sense. Giving more insulin might cause him to drop low resulting in a bounce...and the cycle would continue. giving less insulin might actually yield lower preshots if his drop is gentler. Sounds crazy I know but it often works like that. A few days at the lower dose might help and even if his numbers don't drop we might have a better chance of figuring out the next move. :smile:
 
My cat Ben is an excellent bouncer. I found with him that he does better with a steady dose. I recently tried the sliding scale again and ended up with numbers all over the place. So Bud might like a week of steady doses to get his body used to the effects of the insulin. I also found (for me) that it helped to put a marker row when I was trying a steady dose and another maker row 4 days later to remind me to be patient and not be tempted to make changes too fast.

Good luck! You are in great hands with Sue and Rachel giving you dosing advice.
 
Yes, many thanks to Rachel and Sue for the dosing advice! And thanks Lisa for the reminder to be patient! I did need that!
AMPS was 396 so I dosed at 1.2 again this morning. I normally shoot at 7 and 7 but this evening my daughter has a Christmas program, at 7 of course. I could shoot about 6:15 before we leave, would that be okay?
 
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