Goose
Active Member
BTW, today’s date on the SS is listed as 12/18 again.
I agree with Linda.
SS Fixed.
Do Daa’s PZ Dosing
- Thread starter Goose
- Start date
SS Fixed.
Thank you!
Goose PMd me that Do Daa was dropping into blue today so I’m commenting here.
Great news on the blue!
When you retest, you put, for example using your numbers, in the +5 column “164 RT 140” and in +6 you would put “141 RT 130”.
Since you are past midcycle, if he’s hungry, I’d be sure it’s LC food. I would also encourage a +8 test so we can see if he’s headed up.
With the +2 tests I suggested, we are just trying to get an idea when he onsets.
Great news on the blue!
When you retest, you put, for example using your numbers, in the +5 column “164 RT 140” and in +6 you would put “141 RT 130”.
Since you are past midcycle, if he’s hungry, I’d be sure it’s LC food. I would also encourage a +8 test so we can see if he’s headed up.
With the +2 tests I suggested, we are just trying to get an idea when he onsets.
MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
Spectacular news! 
Goose
Active Member
Spectacular news!
SS Updated. Did I do it right? With both of the numbers at the same time? He's been tested 3 hours in a row - all blues.
No....the retest numbers go in the same cell as the original test. So if you tested and got a 169 and then retested immediately or within a few minutes and for a 140, it all goes in the same cell. Otherwise it looks like you tested every hour for four hours.
Goose
Active Member
Is that better?
Awesome seeing this blue numbers on the spreadsheet. 
You can manually change the colour of the cells with the paintbrush symbols, so it shows as blue. The way you did numbers looks good.
I agree with Marje, a +8 could be interesting.
You can manually change the colour of the cells with the paintbrush symbols, so it shows as blue. The way you did numbers looks good.I agree with Marje, a +8 could be interesting.
Goose
Active Member
Awesome seeing this blue numbers on the spreadsheet.
I agree with Marje, a +8 could be interesting.
SS Updated. +8 (5pm) 124 / 122
Nice and steady.
Goose
Active Member
So I need to eat dinner soon.
Should I hold off until PMPS to test again? Should I continue with 6u?
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You could wait to test, unless you are curious. I would do 6 again tonight.
Goose
Active Member
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MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
Yes 6u.
Goose
Active Member
SS Updated. He's at 100 and I tested the other foot at 71.
He seems to be continuing going down, is it now something to worry about??
Excellent! Good job on the SS. I would suggest you not retest him every time. He’s pretty steady but if you get a number that is a lot lower, then you can retest. By a lot lower, I mean 60 or less.
How are you all doing?
Is how most members are with their first string of blues but I know you’ve seen lower numbers before.
Goose
Active Member
Excellent! Good job on the SS. I would suggest you not retest him every time. He’s pretty steady but if you get a number that is a lot lower, then you can retest. By a lot lower, I mean 60 or less.
How are you all doing?
I'm now getting worried about ( SS Updated. He's at 100 and I tested the other foot at 71.) these numbers. He just had something to eat, but not very much.
Cautiously optimistic, as before.
Goose
Active Member
Excellent! Good job on the SS. I would suggest you not retest him every time. He’s pretty steady but if you get a number that is a lot lower, then you can retest. By a lot lower, I mean 60 or less.
How are you all doing?
SS Updated. 69 first, other foot was 66.
What to do? I don't want to shoot him at all, especially with 6u at this rate..... PMPS is 1.5 hrs away.
He’s still at very safe numbers. I found that when I retested with the same meter, it was usually lower. So I bought a second meter of the same kind and if I had to retest, I used it. It was typically within just a few mg/dL of the first.
Edited to add: will he eat a tsp or two of low carb food?
See above. This looks like a bounce clearing cycle to me. That means it also looks like he went lower last night and he’s on a mission tonight clearing the bounce.
If it were just the dose, he would have nadired and we’d be seeing a rise by now. But the fact that the BG is continuing to drop is indicative of a bounce clearing cycle.
Instead of just skipping, we might think about a half dose.
If it were just the dose, he would have nadired and we’d be seeing a rise by now. But the fact that the BG is continuing to drop is indicative of a bounce clearing cycle.
Instead of just skipping, we might think about a half dose.
Goose
Active Member
You/others would know better than us what this is indicative of. So if he's still low at pmps, we should give him 3u?
He's within the 2 hr. no feed window for pmps. Shouldn't we wait or?
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We are discussing since we have a bit of time. Questions for you:
- Did you feed him and when (+?) and how much
- What is your availability for monitoring tonight and do you have plenty of strips, lancets, high carb food or syrup/honey?
Goose
Active Member
(+9) or 6 - 6:15pm he had less than 1/2 can of FF and 12-15 pieces of dry CP.
We can test quite a bit tonight - what is your idea of times within reason.
We have plenty of everything including Karo, real maple syrup and higher carb Temptation Treats.
What is an unsafe BG reading? When should Karo be used? Should he be fed high carb food pmps? and other times tonight based on readings...
- The BG is our guide for when and how often to test. If you shoot, you will need to get early tests like +0.5 or +1 depending on where he is;
- With Lantus and Levemir, members with data shoot everything above 50; newly diagnosed cats earn reductions for BGs below 50; the PZ protocol does not address this that I can find but I would certainly reduce his dose if he dropped below 50;
- The use of HC depends on the BG and where it is in the cycle;
- Please be sure he does not get any HC food before you test/shoot; he should also not have any LC food other than when I advised above when he was at about +10 unless we find he’s in the 40s. Then we change our approach.
Goose
Active Member
He hasn't had any food in the 2hr no feed window, since 6pm or (+9)
Are we reducing his does to 3u at or around 50? What's the lowest point cut off for anything higher, I don't want to hurt or kill him.
At PMPS, we are not going to feed or shoot until his reading is above 100, correct? What amount of insulin? How long do we wait after pmps to feed or shoot?
How do we determine when to test? Every 1/2hr to 1 hour throughout the night?
I'd rather error on the side of caution with the insulin amount than give him too much.
I know we all want to have a plan but often, we have to see what the BG is doing. Because we have basically no data with him at lower numbers, I’d like to see him above 100 before you give any insulin. If he’s just above 100, I’d opt for a lower dose like 3u unless @MrWorfMen's Mom, @FurBabiesMama, or @Wendy&Neko have other ideas.
If he skyrockets, which he might do because these low numbers are going to cause him to bounce at some point, then we go with 6u.
If, at any time, he drops below 50 (although we might decide to change that number depending on how he responds to carbs; in other words, if he gets to 70 and he doesn’t want to come up much, we should think about that as a reduction number), you would reduce the dose by 0.5u. I’m also looking at another high dose kitty’s SS on PZ to see what she used as a reduction point. I’ll get back to you on that.
I’d suggest you test just a bit before PMPS. If he’s 100-150, I’d go ahead and give him 3u and feed him his regular food. If he’s below 100, don’t feed or shoot and post here.
Once we see where he is and if you shoot or not, then we can discuss testing times, ok?
Goose
Active Member
Just tested before PMPS he is at 70.
So we are not feeding or shooting him right now.
Does changing his PMPS insulin shot, change the 12hr window? Or can we go back to 9am/9pm once he gets back to normal numbers?
Because PZ has no depot, you can go back to your normal shot time if you delay.
I would retest in 30 mins to see if he wants to start up.
Goose
Active Member
We'll test at 930pm and post here.
MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
ProZinc allows for up an hour of wiggle room with shot times so stalling for up to an hour is Ok but I wouldn't go beyond that.
Goose
Active Member
MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
Retest at 9:30pm. If he's still down you can do one more stall/retest before your shot time would be affected.
Thanks, Linda. I was looking at CCs SS and it looked like Janet stalled for a couple hours at times but then seemed to shoot on time the next day or didn’t record it correctly which is always possible.
Let’s hope the next BG is up quite a bit.
MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
Janet has been at this for awhile with CC so she knows her cat and how she reacts. With ProZinc potentially lasting up to 14 hours in some cats and being in new territory with Da, I'd stick to the hour for now if shooting early could potentially be needed.
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Goose
Active Member
Tested just now at 63. He is getting really hungry ( 4 hours without food) and is starting to get list-less.
Do I put that in the +1?
You’ll stack the numbers in the PMPS column so it would be 70 @ +12, 63 @ +12.5.
Hold on just a few minutes and don’t feed. We are discussing. I’d like to know how you feel about skipping knowing he’s very likely going to shoot up.
Goose
Active Member
What is the safest way? I think that skipping the does completely would be better for him. I assume he'll bounce for days and back where we were before this started? What's a safe does while still giving him something at or around the 100 mark if he reaches it soon to avoid too much bouncing for days?
We don’t know how long he will bounce since he hasn’t been here before on this dose.
If he’s hungry and listless, you might just skip and feed him but you’ll still need to test him about 30 minutes after he eats and be sure he heads up.
You can still wait another 30 minutes and see where he is. If he’s not above 100, I’d skip.
Goose
Active Member
So I'll feed him and wait 30 minutes and see and skip if not above 100.
If you feed him, you’re skipping.
Edited to Add:
here are the options
- Continue to stall without feeding for 30 more minutes and then test; if he’s above 100, give 3u or
- Skip, feed him, and test 30 minutes after he eats to be sure he’s headed up. You then will not shoot until his regular shot time in the morning.
MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
You want to know if he is above 100 without feeding. If you feed then test, any rise in numbers might just be the food.
Goose
Active Member
So we tested him at 930pm and it's almost 10pm - check to see if above 100 if not skip dose and feed him, correct?
Correct. See above.
Goose
Active Member
Perfect sense. Will test at 10pm very shortly.
Goose
Active Member
10pm reading was 64. So we are skipping the dose completely and will test in a 1/2 hour to make sure he's going up. If for some reason he's not going up fast enough, what should we feed him?
We'll test and shoot him at the regular AMPS regardless of numbers or should we be mindful of a low number in the amps and adjust to 1/2 does or?
MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
You still need to make sure the AMPS reading is a shootable number. Let's see what Da does in the morning.
Given how low Do Daa has gone today, he's earned a dose reduction to 5.5u. If BG is below 150 in the AM, stall and see if BG is rising on it's own and post for advice.
Given how low Do Daa has gone today, he's earned a dose reduction to 5.5u. If BG is below 150 in the AM, stall and see if BG is rising on it's own and post for advice.
I’ll be here in 30 minutes so please just post and we will discuss what to feed if he’s not up.
Yes, you will need to be cautious in the morning if he’s low. I doubt he will be but if he is, stall without feeding again to see if he comes up above 100 and then shoot 3u. You can post in this forum or in Main Health if you need help and be sure the thread very clearly states “stalling...need help please”.
Here is what I suggest for a dose for tomorrow. If he’s continuing to stay around 100 or less:
- if he’s at 100-150, shoot 3u and then the next shot, if he’s come back up high, reduce the normal dose from 6u to 5.5u bid
- if he’s lower and you stall, without feeding, and he rises above 100, follow the instructions in the bullet above
- if you can’t shoot again in the morning, we will talk during the day but we will definitely need to lower his normal dose
- if he skyrockets, shoot 6u in the morning at your regular time.
We would also appreciate it if, tomorrow, you would start a new thread in this PZ ISG because this one is way longer than we usually run them. You can entitle it however you like as long as his name is in it. Please put the link to this thread in your first post in the new thread in the morning.
To do that, open this thread and copy the browser address. Then start a new thread and put your cursor in the first text box. Type “Previous Thread” and highlight it. Then click on the hyperlink icon (looks like a sideways paperclip) in the toolbar above the text box. Paste the browser address you copied into the box that opens and click “insert”.
Thank you and I’ll be here for the next test.
Goose
Active Member
He just at 3/4 of the FF can, 15 or so pieces of Temptations and 20-25 pieces of CP. He was hungry.
So test at 1030pm? Will that be enough time to get into his system?
Will do on the 5.5u in the morning except if it's below 150 will will hold off ( should we feed him anyway?) and see if it rises and post then.
Goose
Active Member
edit: just read the above bulleted post.
It’s fine to wait 45 minutes after he’s done eating.