Do Daa’s PZ Dosing
- Thread starter Goose
- Start date
Goose
Active Member
Are we suppose to try this new dosage for 3 days and see what the results are?
FurBabiesMama
Very Active Member
You want to hold a dose at least three days (6 cycles) before increasing. The only exception is if a dose takes him too low. Then, a reduction can be done sooner.
Goose
Active Member
MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
Thank you for updating the SS. The first day on a new dose is usually not indicative of how well that dose might work so just stay the course for the moment, be patient, keep the SS updated and we'll see if Do Daa's numbers improve.
Goose
Active Member
The last couple of days we've been scrutinizing his food intake. He's eating 1/3 cup of Clean Protein in 24hrs. and he's eating 1 can of FF classics of various flavors in a 24hr. period. He is still a huge fan of the dry food, but we hope in time to transition him completely to wet. So, while the dosage might not be correct yet, at least some improvement in his health is happening.
MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
A quick calculation suggest that is a rough caloric intake of 270 calories which may or may not be enough for Do Daa. If he seems to need more food, try leaving him some wet food to fill that void. Getting him onto a totally wet diet would be optimal but Do Daa has to eat and if he has to have kibble, the Clean Protein is at least low carb.
My girl was a kibble addict from the day she joined our family at 10 wks old. I tried to transition her to wet food from day 1 but she was having none of it. At the time, it wasn't of urgent importance so we didn't push the wet food but rather coaxed her. Needless to say, 4 yrs later with a diagnosis of diabetes, I was ruing the day I gave up trying to get her onto a wet diet. I had two other cats eating the perfect diabetic diet and she wouldn't touch wet food of any kind. Interestingly, one day I think hunger got the better of her and I caught her pilfering some of her brother's left over wet food. I immediately, stopped offering kibble unless her BG was low and I had no other option. It took a lot of standoffs but she is on a strict wet diet now. She'd still kill for kibble but having got her into remission, I am not taking any chances. Maybe a little hunger when it's safe to do so will convince Do Daa that wet food is better than he thinks it is. Good luck with the transition. I know only too well how difficult it can be.
My girl was a kibble addict from the day she joined our family at 10 wks old. I tried to transition her to wet food from day 1 but she was having none of it. At the time, it wasn't of urgent importance so we didn't push the wet food but rather coaxed her. Needless to say, 4 yrs later with a diagnosis of diabetes, I was ruing the day I gave up trying to get her onto a wet diet. I had two other cats eating the perfect diabetic diet and she wouldn't touch wet food of any kind. Interestingly, one day I think hunger got the better of her and I caught her pilfering some of her brother's left over wet food. I immediately, stopped offering kibble unless her BG was low and I had no other option. It took a lot of standoffs but she is on a strict wet diet now. She'd still kill for kibble but having got her into remission, I am not taking any chances. Maybe a little hunger when it's safe to do so will convince Do Daa that wet food is better than he thinks it is. Good luck with the transition. I know only too well how difficult it can be.
Goose
Active Member
A quick calculation suggest that is a rough caloric intake of 270 calories which may or may not be enough for Do Daa. If he seems to need more food, try leaving him some wet food to fill that void. Getting him onto a totally wet diet would be optimal but Do Daa has to eat and if he has to have kibble, the Clean Protein is at least low carb.
My girl was a kibble addict from the day she joined our family at 10 wks old. I tried to transition her to wet food from day 1 but she was having none of it. At the time, it wasn't of urgent importance so we didn't push the wet food but rather coaxed her. Needless to say, 4 yrs later with a diagnosis of diabetes, I was ruing the day I gave up trying to get her onto a wet diet. I had two other cats eating the perfect diabetic diet and she wouldn't touch wet food of any kind. Interestingly, one day I think hunger got the better of her and I caught her pilfering some of her brother's left over wet food. I immediately, stopped offering kibble unless her BG was low and I had no other option. It took a lot of standoffs but she is on a strict wet diet now. She'd still kill for kibble but having got her into remission, I am not taking any chances. Maybe a little hunger when it's safe to do so will convince Do Daa that wet food is better than he thinks it is. Good luck with the transition. I know only too well how difficult it can be.
SS updated.
Currently he has to be kind of tricked into eating the wet food. We drop some dry food into a small porcelain bowl which makes a noise suggesting hard food. He ends up licking the dry into the wet and eating both, but being a grazer, he doesn't eat much at one sitting. He's probably getting around 300 calories a day, with the bowl trick. Thanks for the story.
MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
Sounds like a good start at transitioning Do Daa. Just stick with it and eventually you'll get him to thankfully eat the wet food. Patience and perseverance are key. Grazing is fine as long as you take the food up 2 hours before AMPS and PMPS so those 2 tests are not food influenced.
300 calories at this point in time is probably Ok but keep an eye on his weight. You want him at an ideal weight but not getting "fluffy".
300 calories at this point in time is probably Ok but keep an eye on his weight. You want him at an ideal weight but not getting "fluffy".
Goose
Active Member
Grazing in the sense that he just picks at his food and doesn't eat much/enough while someone is with him eating. All food is up 2hrs. before AMPS and PMPS.
MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
As long as Do Daa is eating, it doesn't matter if he nibbles many many times per day or gobbles his food down. He just needs enough calories to keep him from needing to burn fat for energy which results in ketones and you don't want those. Have you checked Do Daa for ketones at all?
Goose
Active Member
Ketones were negative as of Tuesday. We're checking him 2-3 times a week.
Goose
Active Member
SS Updated.
Goose
Active Member
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Goose
Active Member
SS
SS Updated. I don't really see 2.25u working after 4 days. He was at 232 and was given 2.25u, will watch and test later tonight.
SS Updated. I don't really see 2.25u working after 4 days. He was at 232 and was given 2.25u, will watch and test later tonight.
FurBabiesMama
Very Active Member
I would check him at +3. This may end up being a really good night to get in a test closer to mid-cycle, too. Last time he had a pre-shot test result in the 200s, he had just started to drop by +3, but we have no idea how low he ended up going since there was not another test until +9.
MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
I agree a mid cycle test tonight would be invaluable. I know it's tough getting up to test but figuring Do Daa out and finding the right dose will make all of this so much easier on you and Do Daa in the long run and the only way to do that is to see how low he is going at night.
Goose
Active Member
9pm at 232 , just tested at (+3) 12am 478. He might have had some food at 11pm, can't remember. Either way, he went way up in 3hrs.
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FurBabiesMama
Very Active Member
Are the Dr. Elsey's and the FF Classics the only foods to which he has access or is there the possibility that he is getting into something else?
Goose
Active Member
SS updated.
(+7) 410
It's taking him 2 months to do what we have done so far, especially the wet food, so this will have to be at the moment. It's been mentioned here that even if he did have a little food, that it doesn't effect the numbers to a meaningful degree. So...
I'll check back late afternoon or later.
FurBabiesMama
Very Active Member
I do not understand what you are saying here. I was not asking you to feed him something different, if that is what you thought. My question was whether he could be getting into some food other than the Dr. Elsey's and FF. I want to know if he has access to something with higher carbs, because if he does, that would definitely affect his glucose - and yes, it could have a 'meaningful' impact on his numbers. Even a few bites of higher carb food can have significant impact, especially if a cat is particularly carb-sensitive.
I'm just trying to figure out if there are any factors we are missing here as to why his glucose is so high.
FurBabiesMama
Very Active Member
Goose, @MrWorfMen's Mom and I are thinking it may be time for another increase for Do Daa. Assuming everything today goes as it has been (meaning no unexpected big drop), we suggest going to 2.5 units tomorrow while, of course, continuing the testing.
With how high Do Daa's glucose is staying, we are wondering if something else might be going on with him. Dental issues very often cause increased glucose. Has he had a dental check recently?
With how high Do Daa's glucose is staying, we are wondering if something else might be going on with him. Dental issues very often cause increased glucose. Has he had a dental check recently?
Howdy everyone! I’m glad to see that yellow on Do Daa’s SS! Progress.
I would definitely agree it’s time to increase the dose to 2.5u bid. Please be sure there is no less testing.
Goose...have you ever tried to kind of pulverize a bit of the dry and put it on top of the wet and then gradually decrease it? That works for some members on getting the kitty off dry food and totally on wet.
I would definitely agree it’s time to increase the dose to 2.5u bid. Please be sure there is no less testing.
Goose...have you ever tried to kind of pulverize a bit of the dry and put it on top of the wet and then gradually decrease it? That works for some members on getting the kitty off dry food and totally on wet.
Goose
Active Member
Hi,
Sorry.
I misunderstood what you were saying. He is not getting into any other food. All food for all the cats is out of his reach during the necessary times. I am puzzled by those results as well.
Goose
Active Member
He has no dental issues. He was at the Vets on 9/27 and she said his teeth were fine, ever so slight plaque near the rear teeth. No other issues on the blood panel except high BG.
Goose
Active Member
Howdy everyone! I’m glad to see that yellow on Do Daa’s SS! Progress.
I would definitely agree it’s time to increase the dose to 2.5u bid. Please be sure there is no less testing.
Goose...have you ever tried to kind of pulverize a bit of the dry and put it on top of the wet and then gradually decrease it? That works for some members on getting the kitty off dry food and totally on wet.
SS Updated.
His dose will be upped to 2.5u in the AM.
Slow, borderline arduous progress.
The way his food is delivered to him seems to be working for him, I'm not going to rock that boat yet.
Ok. Thanks for letting us know your plan.SS Updated.
His dose will be upped to 2.5u in the AM.
Slow, borderline arduous progress.
The way his food is delivered to him seems to be working for him, I'm not going to rock that boat yet.
Goose
Active Member
SS Updated.
Thank you. Let’s hope he will settle into this dose better.
There’s always a benefit to grabbing one test during that +4 to +9 timeframe if he’s flat pink. The 390 and 416 last night are basically the same and he might have slipped down to yellow.
Goose
Active Member
That timeframe is a hard one. So only should be looking at the +4 to +9 if he's in the pink or really close to it? How close?
MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
ProZinc onsets around +2 and by +10 it's generally wearing off so any testing you can do in that period is beneficial. All data is good data but when you can, getting tests in the +4 to +7 timeframe are often the most telling because that is when ProZinc is usually at its peak action and the lowest BGs will occur. That said, some kitties will reach peak action a little earlier and some later, so all data helps.
Goose
Active Member
Goose
Active Member
SS updated. Not seeing a lot so far that's different.
MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
Do you recall what food and how much Do Daa ate at 2pm yesterday (24th)? That 552 at +7 is one heck of a jump in BG for 2 hours post food considering BG was at 404 at +4. A small food bump would be normal but that is excessive. I presume the PMPS was not food influenced (food had been withheld for at least 2 hours prior?
Goose
Active Member
SS Updated.
Less than a tablespoon of wet food and 15+ pieces of Clean Protein for the crunch he needs to eat the wet food, as usual during the day.
All food is withheld from him 2 hours before Every test except for the 4 and 6 am tests we have done. We're trying to get as accurate numbers as possible.
He is most hungry AMPS and PMPS.
The rest of the time (day and night) he picks at the food but eats in smaller amounts. Someone is always here to watch him and to feed him because of all the other cats.
Nothing unusual happened to get that 552, small amount of food per usual, we were puzzled as well.
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MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
Can you take a BG reading +1 hour post meal and shot tomorrow AM or PM? Want to see what that BG is compared to fasting pre-shot BG.
Goose
Active Member
So do you want me to test him right now at 10pm? He just had his shot at 9pm.
Just tested him at a little after 10pm. He's at 596
He ate normally as stated above.
(+3) at 376
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MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
Not what I expected but it certainly speaks volumes to the food bump Do Daa gets. If measuring in cups, how much would 15+/- pieces of Clean Protein be equivalent to?
That is definitely a big food spike also evidenced by the fact he came down at onset.
FurBabiesMama
Very Active Member
Are you feeding him the Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein CHICKEN? That is the one that has between 4 and 5 % carbs. The salmon one is higher in carbs. Just want to confirm and not assume you are feeding the lower carb chicken one.
Goose
Active Member
The Clean Protein are quite small, maybe slightly larger than the size of a BB from a BB gun or Smaller than an eraser head. So in a 1/3 cup, it's virtually nothing.
Goose
Active Member
SS Updated.
Chicken, Yes. He did not like the Salmon the one time we tried it a month ago.
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Thanks. If you can test at +7 again tonight and he’s still 300 or above, I would increase the dose to 2.75u in the morning unless you get a yellow AMPS. If you get a yellow AMPS, I would increase to 2.5u in the morning.
Let’s hope we start to see some movement.
Goose
Active Member
SS Updated.
Kentone negative.
It won't be tonight, but I'll try tomorrow. He's currently at 2.5u am/pm.
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I’m sorry.....I was looking at his SS but for some reason, only saw 2.25u. I thought it had been updated.
At any rate, let me change my recommendations. If you haven’t increased his dose to 2.75u yet and he still hasn’t seen any yellow, I would increase to 3u from 2.5u. If you increased his dose to 2.75u this morning, then go ahead and hold that dose for six cycles (so we can be consistent with dosing) unless we, miraculously, see a number below 50. In that event, you would reduce the dose by 0.25u.
Goose
Active Member
SS Updated.
I did not adjust his dosage to 2.75u, so we'll start at 3u Thursday thru Sunday and see what the results are. I'll check the pmps (+7) Thursday into Friday morning since the dosage will have been changed.
Below 50? Wouldn't that be a crash number?
Have a happy Thanksgiving
MrWorfMen's Mom
Very Active Member
50 is not a crash but rather an warning that BG is dropping toward potentially dangerous lows and your call to action of getting BG propped up so Do Daa doesn't have a hypo episode. Unless you see physical symptoms of hypoglycemia, it's just a low reading.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family!
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family!
Goose
Active Member
50 is not a crash but rather an warning that BG is dropping toward potentially dangerous lows and your call to action of getting BG propped up so Do Daa doesn't have a hypo episode. Unless you see physical symptoms of hypoglycemia, it's just a low reading.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family!
SS Updated.
FurBabiesMama
Very Active Member
Can you please confirm that your ProZinc is kept in the refrigerator and that you gently roll the vial before drawing out a dose each time? Also, is the appearance of it slightly milky but with no 'chunks' or 'strings' floating in it?
I am still just trying to think of and rule out any factors that could be impacting his glucose.
I am still just trying to think of and rule out any factors that could be impacting his glucose.
Goose
Active Member
Yes, it is refrigerated at 40 degrees for the last 2 months and Yes it gets gently rolled each time before use.
The appearance is slightly milky no strings, a slightly small mass that's insulin colored at the bottom of the bottle, nothing is floating in the insulin that is left.
However, with the fact that his numbers are Not improving with the ever increasing amount of insulin, we are Very concerned that he is getting or is insulin resistant and/or the Prozinc is, or never did, work for him.
We are getting to the point real soon where we do not feel comfortable giving him even more insulin (6U daily now). He is not showing any improvement with any of the increases, past or present.
He is the most regulated cat we have ever had, and as we look at the SS, no amount of dosage seems to be helping.
We do not want to do long term internal damage.
We also assume that the insulin can't be stopped Cold Turkey and has to be regulated back down and then off.
He's to sweet of a cat and has been an amazing sport through all of this to put him through this with no point to it.
SS is updated.