Cat's Numbers Barely Moved Today--Any Idea Why?

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gorillahowl

Member Since 2013
I am just starting to sort of get the hang of testing my cat's blood glucose. Today, I gave him his insulin around 9, and tested him around 1:30. He was at 281. (He has been testing in the 300s.)

Then I tested him around the time he was going to get his next shot, around 9 p.m. (he'd been grazing all day), and he was at 262. I thought that seemed weird, so I took it again with whatever blood I could still get out of his ear, and it was 250. So it looks like his bg was lower 12 hours after his shot than 4 hours. That doesn't seem to make sense.

I gave him his evening shot at 9, and four hours later, I just tested again. . . and he's at 237. (One good thing: This is the lowest he's been!)

This doesn't seem right. Should 2 units of insulin have so little an effect on him? Could it be time to replace the insulin? (It's two months old, and aside from one day, has always been refrigerated.) And why was his reading lower at a time when it should have been higher?

Thanks.
 
Sometimes you just get a higher flat cycle. My kitty has been having those here and there. Nothing is wrong. It just happens sometimes. The fact that they were in the 200's and not in the 300's is a good thing!

Also, having lower numbers towards the end of the cycle than during mid cycle happens sometimes. It happens to Simon my cat often enough to be a normal thing for him. It depends a lot on whether kitty was eating during the cycle cause numbers can be food influenced, even on low carb food.

You are doing great with the testing. Someone with more experience might be able to explain your numbers to you better than I could, but that is what I was told. Also, it might be time for a dose increase. That is what we did. Don't do it on your own. Let someone with experience tell you what you should be doing if anything. Don't go by me, I am too new! ;-) ;-)
 
gorillahowl said:
...Today, I gave him his insulin around 9, and tested him around 1:30. He was at 281. (He has been testing in the 300s.)

Then I tested him around the time he was going to get his next shot, around 9 p.m. (he'd been grazing all day), and he was at 262. I thought that seemed weird, so I took it again with whatever blood I could still get out of his ear, and it was 250. So it looks like his bg was lower 12 hours after his shot than 4 hours. That doesn't seem to make sense.

I gave him his evening shot at 9, and four hours later, I just tested again. . . and he's at 237.

This doesn't seem right. Should 2 units of insulin have so little an effect on him? Could it be time to replace the insulin? (It's two months old, and aside from one day, has always been refrigerated.) And why was his reading lower at a time when it should have been higher?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
HI there! First and foremost--are you not testing immediately before you give the insulin shot? If not, please test him/her right before you give the shot. Always. This will keep your kitty safe. And be sure he/she has not eaten at least two hours before the shot. It is very dangerous to shoot without knowing what the BG number is.

I don't know which insulin you're using and if you've changed the dosing either way since diagnosis. We could get a much better idea of what's going on, but without a spreadsheet, it is near impossible to figure out how to see how you cat is reacting to the insulin and how many times the dosage has been changed. Fluctuating numbers are, well, somewhat normal in a way (unless there's an underlying medical problem). I'm thinking that your cat is newly diagnosed since you joined FDMB in April? "Newly Diagnosed" means a cat who has been diagnosed since 6 months or less.

I highly doubt the insulin is not good if you have kept it in the refrigerator, not shot insulin back into the vial (if you measured wrong or too much insulin) and that the insulin is clear and with nothing floating around in it BUT there's a slight chance that not keeping it refrigerated could have effected the strength of the insulin. Not always; but possible. How long was it not in the refrigerator for one day? I used the same vial of insulin for 4 months and it was probably still good.

Are you having trouble doing a spreadsheet? If so, we can help you get one up and running.

What insulin are you using?

Sorry I'm in the dark about your kitty's numbers and dosing, but I haven't read all of your posts. Hang in there; my cat bounced for many months in his feline diabetes journey. Its very evident if you look at his spreadsheet.

I'll keep an eye out for your reply :-D :-D :-D :-D
 
Hi, I'm a Newbie here so can't offer too much advice, except that my Tigger also has had flat numbers, & I think for him, it's when he's adjusting to a new dose, after having more fluctuations. Sort of like a pendulum winding down. Having a spreadsheet is really helping me see this, & having experienced members help me interpret & chose the right path to proceed.

I agree with the more experienced members that if you don't have a spreadsheet, you really need one. If you have one, please link it to your profile. Experienced members will be able to read it, & as you develop a history of injections, and testing & curves, be able to interpret more accurately what is occurring during your kitty's cycles.

Also, you will be able to see - by number & color, patterns & rhythyms in your kitty's response to the insulin. This is really critical.

Sounds like you are doing great with the testing. Do you give treats afterwards? Our cat Tigger likes the treats so much he sleeps on the testing blanket most of the time now when he's inside!
 
Thanks!
Haven't started a spreadsheet yet. Can you point me in the right direction?

Yes, treats every time! Freeze-dried salmon today. We buy "We Pity the Kitties" treats (I love that name) from Three Dog Bakery.
 
Update: This morning's pre-breakfast number was 217 and his evening number (12 hours later) was up to 315. Both were pre-shot. No mid-day test because the human HAD to see Man of Steel.
 
How are things going this morning?

Would you like someone to help set up that spreadsheet for you?

I'd really like to see some numbers and know what the insulin dose is right now.

Until you have the SS set up, would you please list some info here, like this.

6/15 AMPS xxx ?Units PMPS xxx ?Units
6/16 AMPS 217 ?Units PMPS 315 ?units
6/17 AMPS xxx ?Units +4 PMPS xxx
Replace the xxx with your actual BG (blood glucose) test number. Replace the ? with your actual number of units.

Would you do that for me please? Thanks.
 
6/15 AMPS NO TEST 2.5 Units [test at +4 was 281] PMPS 262 2.5 Units [test at + 4 was
6/16 AMPS 217 2 Units PMPS 315 2 units
6/17 AMPS I'll have to check tonight; I'm at work now it was 2something 2 Units PMPS xxx

The spreadsheet looks pretty straightforward and I anticipate starting it tonight. Thanks for all the offers of assistance.

Other question: The few times I was able to use the Accu Chek to test his numbers, he was always in the 300s. Not too much has changed (we're changing his food, but he's still eating more crap than good stuff). Could the 200 readings be because the Relion micro "tests low"?
 
Blood glucose meters are allowed by low to vary by 20% from one reading to the next. This has been deemed by federal regulatory agencies to be accurate enough for use in humans, adults and small children. We work with what we have.

The reason the Relion line of meters is recommended is the lower cost of the test strips.

Even testing the exact same blood drop from one test strip to another, will get you different readings. There are some meters that have better repeatability from one test strip to the next. The cost of the test strips is higher. You can easily go through 100-200 test strips in a month, especially at the beginning, when you are trying to get your cat regulated.

I did some parallel testing between an Alpahtrak 2 and a Relion Confirm meter for Wink. You can look at his SS and see the differences. First line for a date is the Alphatrak 2, second line of data for the same date is the Relion Confirm. The Alphatrak 2 and human glucometers are known to differ by about 30-40%. That translates to about 30 points at the low numbers, a bit more when the numbers are higher.

You can drive yourself crazy switching back and forth from one meter to another. Pick one meter and stick with it. That is my best advice.
 
We seem to be stuck between old board and new while they are switching things over.
I get different views different times. Not all posts are together for this thread.
I am going to add ( or at least try to add) the missing posts here and will try to get the other view and add these there.
I think some aren't aware there are 2 board views currently. There are new posts on both views.

What is missing from this thread:




Re: Cat's Numbers Barely Moved Today--Any Idea Why?
by Cheryl and Winnie » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:29 pm

Hi Carli,

Any more numbers today?

The easiest way for us to look at the numbers is to post them as "+" # hours after shot.
When you test before a shot in the morning that would be AMPS ( AM Pre Shot), evening/night shot would be PMPS ( PM Pre Shot) and then the "+" hours after shot.
Everyone is on different schedules and time zones, so this takes that out of the equation.
Let me convert your numbers for you :

6/15/13
AMPS ? 2u lantus
+4.5 281
PMPS 262/250 2u. lantus
+4 237

Does that make sense to you ? Many members make a spread sheet. I was here before the time of spreadsheets, but you can click on my signature, under Winnie's Profile and see examples of how to post numbers. If you look under a lot of newer members signatures you will see links to their spreadsheets. That may help you to take a look to see the format. IGNORE the actual numbers on those sheets.

Couple of comments :

1. At +4 Lantus is just kicking in. Sometimes numbers go up before they go down. I'm not going to overwhelm you with why now. All in good time : ) It is nice to know when the insulin is kicking in, so that number is good to have.
BUT for now the number you really want to look at is around +6 and +8 where Lantus "usually" has peak action.
ECID ( Every Cat Is Different ) You'll see "ECID" a lot around here .

2. You do not have enough data to tell what is going on yet. You'll get there. It's ok. There is absolutely NOT enough numbers to say that this curve is flat and that the insulin is not moving the numbers.
We need those nadir (+6/+8 ) numbers !!

3. You skipped a shot the other day, ( I remember your posting, not sure exactly when that was)
We all do it at some point, don't worry, but that can affect BG numbers

4. You just lowered your dose. It takes awhile for dose to settle.( To see the effect of the dose change)

5. Re: the difference in PMPS numbers -- meters will vary w/i a % amount. And different factors when getting drops of blood can vary a bit ( it is common to test and get different -- but within range -- numbers from different ears ! Point is Not enough difference between 262 and 250 to worry about. It's Ok . You can get to the specifics later if you want.


Some questions for you : Is he still yowling ? I am still thinking that he was going too low on 3u.
Please DO NOT increase your dose. In fact, it's still possible with those numbers that he may need less.
Lantus is dosed based on the Peak action ( aka "nadir" ) numbers NOT the preshot.
Still always important to test before each shot.
Better to ride a little high then go too low. Too high while we figure things out -- AS LONG AS there are no ketones. Is fine. Wendall has not had ketone issues before,if I remember correctly. So it's ok.
You can get urine test strips at the pharmacy to check for ketones. It's a good idea to have them, and check once in a while. If you need help on how. That will be a separate post.
Ask the pharmacist if you can't find them.

I am trying hard not to overwhelm you.
PLEASE let me know and I can break it down further if needed.

Did you get more numbers today ? Can you please post them ? if you need help putting them in the right form, let me know and I'll be happy to help. ( or someone will jump in ! )
If you want to start a spreadsheet and need help. Please ask !
Cheryl w/civies Quincy & Lucy , and forever in spirit, Winnie and Wolfie <3

My Furred Loves :
Winnie (5/1/90-8/13/09)
FD dx 12/05 Lantus and R insulins
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Wolfie (6/9/91-6/21/10)
civie extraordinaire

Cheryl and Winnie

Posts: 1915
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Re: Cat's Numbers Barely Moved Today--Any Idea Why?
by Cheryl and Winnie » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:39 pm

I did some more thinking Carli, because of the numbers you told me, and the fact that you are away all day at work, if I were in your place, I would drop to 1u 2x day and stick with that dose for awhile. Lantus is not an something you adjust daily based on numbers. I feel it would be better to drop the dose and stick w/ it for awhile. ( Do some data gathering)

You were at 3u to start, and as discussed, he was probably going too low based on behavior.
You dropped to 2u.
The numbers you are getting and have yet to post,along with the fact that you are in the process of changing his diet, lead me to think that this would be the safest course of action.

I do want to say that it is your cat, so ultimately your responsibility and choice.
IF it were my cat, I would drop to 1unit. Next shot !

Please keep us posted.

ed: clarification
Last edited by Cheryl and Winnie on Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cheryl w/civies Quincy & Lucy , and forever in spirit, Winnie and Wolfie <3

My Furred Loves :
Winnie (5/1/90-8/13/09)
FD dx 12/05 Lantus and R insulins
Profile

Wolfie (6/9/91-6/21/10)
civie extraordinaire

Cheryl and Winnie

Posts: 1915
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:51 pm
Location: Western NY
Member since: 18 Dec 2005
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Re: Cat's Numbers Barely Moved Today--Any Idea Why?
by Tigger's Friend » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:16 pm

If you haven't got information yet on how to set up a spreadsheet, Sue & Oliver sent me this link:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

It was a little tricky & took me awhile - you have to have a google account, or set one up if you don't. It is a google document, so you go to google documents once you're set up / logged in.

From there, the link is pretty self explanatory, especially if you're familiar with URLs (I'm not ) I'm still trying to get a photo of Tigger on the profile!!!

Having the spreadsheet really helps me, & if you look at mine, Tigger's got some flat readings, & today he's bouncing all over - usually his +9 is the highest - I have no clue why, tho.

Also, I just got 2 different numbers on my PMPS, too: 238 & 287, both taken with the same meter from the same ear prick. 1 before treat, 1 after, maybe that made a difference. But - for me, both those numbers were well below the 339 +9 number. Like the more experienced members say, ECID - every cat is different, but keep checking the whys - you're asking good questions!
Suzanne & Tigger
10 y/o
Prozinc 6/8/13
ReliOn Confirm
Tigger's SS
img src="http://https://plus.google.com/photos/103599838632831553979/albums/5890260318961160785"
Tigger's Friend

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339 +9 means the BG reading 9 hours after the insulin shot.

Since we are in different time zones. we count from the time of the shot and add one hour.

Shot time is zero (also called AMPS for morning pre-shot and PMPS for evening pre-shot)
2 hours after shot is +2
4 hours after shot is +4
8 hours after shot is +8
etc.
 
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