Cat/Charlie continued: feeding/dosing advice requested (caninsulin, 8-28 Charlie PMPS-455)

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CatCharlie

CatCharlie

Member Since 2023
Hi everyone,

Continuing this thread: Another terrified newbie (28/8)

What I am struggling with:

- understanding the blood testing system; what results mean/when and how to adjust dose
- how to safely transition charlie from a small amount of high carb wet food (1 can over 2 meals) and some 18% carb dry food (which he has had probably less than 10g the last two days) to only a low carb wet food (ideally sheba fine flakes/terrine as it's affordable) - and how to monitor and adjust his dose as necessary.

Thanking everyone for your advice and support as well. I am overwhelmed and frightened.
 
How msny units are you giving rightb now ? Is it 1.5 units?
read these links
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/introduction-to-cannisulin-vetsulin-n-nph.231602/

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/
@CatCharlie

Going to tag Suzanne for you who posted on your previous thread since she's familiar with Caninsulin
@Suzanne & Darcy
Suzanne I copied this from her previous post if this will help
(I have to order more lancets and strips which won't come until Wednesday, i have 10 right now assuming I don't balls it up.)

What number ranges (human meter) do I withold insulin? What do I stall on and do I just feed him with no insulin if his number remains low on a stall? What numbers am I looking for on the x-hourly testing? What do I do based on those numbers? He doesn't see the vet again until the 10th.

There is an awful lot of information on the post about this and it's all in full sentences and with words I don't recognise like 'nadir' and my brain keeps checking out. Is there a simple table with hours/number range and what to do for each range that I can refer to?

Thank you all again for being so kind and understanding to a very scared person who just wants their baby to be ok.
 
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First blood prick test done (was a total champ) and his BG was 25.3. Don't really know what that means but it's above the 11 do not jab number so ahead we go?

He's now having a full pouch as he didn't have any biscuits today. Hopefully that will make the transition easier to only wet food. Will give him his 1.5 insulin in half hour as instructed.
(Update: he wolfed down about 9/10ths of the pouch immediately. He's just gone back for more)

Diane thanks for the links, I've read through them a couple of times but keep getting lost in all the info and don't really understand some of it.
 
Great job getting your first test 25.3 (455 BG US number) it's high
You just started out so be patient
I would get another test say @+2 ( 2 hours after his shot) and post it we want to see how low Charlie's BG has dropped
Just so members can see what his in your Title above after where you have (can insulin) can you put 8-28 Charlie PMPS-455 then any other tests you get
So if you test @+2 just put @+2 and his BG

To add this look to the right and you will see the word Thread Tools
Click in that ,then click on Edit Title and add what I said , then tap save

Most of us are used to US numbers ,how we get that is we multiply
25.3 × 18 = 455
I tapped on your US tab on your spreadsheet and it's correct
I'll check back later to see what's going on :cat:
 
Thanks Diane, I'll stay up until 2am and do one further test but after that it will be Wednesday before I can do a full daytime curve testing! So I should multiply the +2 num by 18 for the title? (Just like this post if so and I will know to do it otherwise I will leave it as the machine number!)
 
CatCharlie said:
Thanks Diane, I'll stay up until 2am and do one further test but after that it will be Wednesday before I can do a full daytime curve testing! So I should multiply the +2 num by 18 for the title? (Just like this post if so and I will know to do it otherwise I will leave it as the machine number!)
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What time is it where you are now
I would multiply it by 18. It's just easier and quicker for members to see it
 
He gets fed at 11.30 and jab at 12. Planning to do first curve wednesday every 2 hrs after lunchtime, will need help understanding results and what to next based on results.
 
CatCharlie said:
He gets fed at 11.30 and jab at 12. Planning to do first curve wednesday every 2 hrs after lunchtime, will need help understanding results and what to next based on results.
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Too bad you didn't start out testing him earlier in the AM so you wouldn't have to stay up that late. But what time do you test him ? Is it 11:30 AM
Don't mean to pry do you work
Don't forget to fill in how many units you gave on your spreadsheet
You don't have to put the) after the 455 in your title
As you can see I'm anal :p
Charlie's a handsome boy
 
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Thank you for the reminder! Yes the testing kit only arrived at 4pm today too late for the early testing cycle.

Charlie is super handsome and such a good boy. Tyler looks gorgeous too, similar to a cat my Gran had when I was little!

No don't work is more than a full time job just managing my health conditions and now managing charlie's on top of mine, while trying not to make my own health worse and doing my very best for him!

Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Too bad you didn't start out testing him earlier in the AM so you wouldn't have to stay up that late
Don't mean to pry do you work
Don't forget to fill in how many units you gave on your spreadsheet
You don't have to put the) after the 455 in your title
As you can see I'm anal :p
Charlie's a handsome boy
Click to expand...
 
CatCharlie said:
Thank you for the reminder! Yes the testing kit only arrived at 4pm today too late for the early testing cycle.

Charlie is super handsome and such a good boy. Tyler looks gorgeous too, similar to a cat my Gran had when I was little!

No don't work is more than a full time job just managing my health conditions and now managing charlie's on top of mine, while trying not to make my own health worse and doing my very best for him!
Click to expand...
Do you think you might want to start earlier with the testing so you don't have to stay up so late
 
Yes my plan is to do a curve on Wednesday as I have stuff going on tomorrow that will interfere with being able to get consistent times. However I will do one at 2am for a 2+ info today and will obviously test before his meals tomorrow (tues) before doing a full curve on wed.
 
No I mean would you want to adjust your testing times AMPS and PMPS
I mean start your first test in the AM earlier
So right now what are your testing times
 
Oh so 11.30/11.30. Honestly if anything that's a little early for me and I may increment it back by half hr at a time to be more like 1/1 cause the sleep disorder means I'm useless before evening and struggle to sleep before 4am unless it's cycling (non 24 sleep wake disorder and dsps)
 
CatCharlie said:
Oh so 11.30/11.30. Honestly if anything that's a little early for me and I may increment it back by half hr at a time to be more like 1/1 cause the sleep disorder means I'm useless before evening and struggle to sleep before 4am unless it's cycling (non 24 sleep wake disorder and dsps)
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You have me confused lol
So you test Charlie first thing in the AM at 11:30 is this correct ?
Then 12 hours later you test at 11:30 PM
What do you mean 1/1?

So you want to stay with this

What time was it when you got the 455 BG
 
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Unfortunately I wasn't able to get a test result for 2am I had a few dry pokes and 3 failed test strips (soaked into the fur instead of the strip) he was getting fed up and as I need him to be cooperative for the pre shot I let him be for now.

By 1/1 I mean 1am and 1pm. Insulin shot was at midnight.
 
CatCharlie said:
Unfortunately I wasn't able to get a test result for 2am I had a few dry pokes and 3 failed test strips (soaked into the fur instead of the strip) he was getting fed up and as I need him to be cooperative for the pre shot I let him be for now.

By 1/1 I mean 1am and 1pm. Insulin shot was at midnight.
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That's OK, you can just leave him a little food out for him before you go to bed
OK you said insulin shot was at midnight ,I want to know what time you tested him , was it at 11:30 PM tonight
 
CatCharlie said:
Oh so 11.30/11.30. Honestly if anything that's a little early for me and I may increment it back by half hr at a time to be more like 1/1 cause the sleep disorder means I'm useless before evening and struggle to sleep before 4am unless it's cycling (non 24 sleep wake disorder and dsps)
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If you want to make your test times at 1PM and 1AM I wouldn't know how to do that , I don't know if the way you said you might do it is correct
If that's what you want to do I can tag one of our members for you and she can tell you how to do it
@CatCharlie
 
Yes I would prefer to move it slightly later.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to get a successful blood test today either and as charlie was distressed I gave up after 3 tries as I do not want him to learn to dislike the process. I will give him his insulin in half an hour as usual and continue trying to blood test before.
 
@CatCharlie Hi Cat I hope that's your name lol
I tagged Bhooma so she can explain how to go about changing your testing times AMPS and PMPS

@Bandit's Mom
Hi Bhooma , Cat and Charlie are new members she lives in the UK
Charlie is on Caninsulin
Right now her AMPS test is 11:30 AM and PM and shoots at midnight
She would like to change it to 1:00 AM and 1 PM
Can you please tell her how she can to do that
I can never get that right lol
Thank you Bhooma
 
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CatCharlie said:
Yes I would prefer to move it slightly later.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to get a successful blood test today either and as charlie was distressed I gave up after 3 tries as I do not want him to learn to dislike the process. I will give him his insulin in half an hour as usual and continue trying to blood test before.
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Try bringing him to the same spot when you test him
Try giving him a treat such as a small piece of plain boiled chicken right before you're ready to test him.
Some members might sing a song , I know it sounds silly
Just putting this up here to look at again
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
c2b8079a-b471-4fa6-ac36-9ac1c8d6dcca-jpeg.57072
fec17d29-5ab4-44a8-912b-3a91944c3954-jpeg.57073

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with
Here is a video one of our members made testing her kitty
She's using a pet meter that has to be coded ,with a human meter you don't have to code it.
I have always used a human meter
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar
 
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I could try singing! I don't have any meat in the house (except the cat food) as I don't eat it, I looked at some pre cooked stuff but it's all full of additives and sugar. I'll see if they have anything in pets at home later that I can give him.

I'm going to buy him the sheba flakes ready to switch him over but I want to get better at doing the blood testing first as switching from high to low carb may cause issues otherwise.
 
CatCharlie said:
I could try singing! I don't have any meat in the house (except the cat food) as I don't eat it, I looked at some pre cooked stuff but it's all full of additives and sugar. I'll see if they have anything in pets at home later that I can give him.

I'm going to buy him the sheba flakes ready to switch him over but I want to get better at doing the blood testing first as switching from high to low carb may cause issues otherwise.
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Yes don't switch ihim over to low carb wet until you can start getting tests in
Doing that can drop the BG by 100 points and we don't want that
Did you see I tagged Bhooma to tell you how to change your test times to be 1AM and 1PM

Click in this link and look at post #6. Numbers are to the right
You can get any freeze dried treats ,information is there
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/brand-new-many-questions-3.255627/#post-2878703
 
CatCharlie said:
Yes I would prefer to move it slightly later.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to get a successful blood test today either and as charlie was distressed I gave up after 3 tries as I do not want him to learn to dislike the process. I will give him his insulin in half an hour as usual and continue trying to blood test before.
Click to expand...


You have 2 choices. Change shot time by 15 minutes per cycle until you're where you want to be or change shot time by 30 minutes per day until you're where you want to be

So if you're currently shooting at 11:30am/11:30pm and want to change to 1am/1pm, it would look like this: (at 15 mins per cycle)

Day 1....shoot at 11:45am, 12:00 midnight
Day 2....shoot at 12:15am, 12:30 pm
Day 3....shoot at 12:45 am, 1:00pm


At 30 min per day:
Day 1. shoot at 12 noon, 12 midnight
Day 2. shoot at 12:30pm, 12:30am
Day 3. shoot at 1pm, 1am
 
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Thanks Chris!

I've now purchased sheba fine flakes and low carb treats for snacks but obviously am waiting until I can get more consistent blood testing done. He's now basically off the dry food as he wasn't eating it anyway I've just upped the wet he was already eating.
 
CatCharlie said:
He's now basically off the dry food as he wasn't eating it anyway I've just upped the wet he was already eating.
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That's wonderful news! Getting a hard-core kibble addict to eat canned is one of the hardest jobs a lot of us have! When my China was diagnosed, I threw away almost 20lbs of what I had thought was extremely healthy kibble. No grains, or proteins at the top of the ingredients.

I was one of the lucky ones though. My 2 civvies (non-diabetic) cats absolutely loved the new food. I got a few dirty looks that said "So where have you been hiding this good stuff all our lives"? but they didn't miss that kibble a bit.
 
My other cat George is definitely hard-core kibble and I need to get a microchip feeding bowl for her when I can afford it (they're pricey!) As she likes to graze small amounts wheras Charlie seems happy to wolf down larger meals and then have tiny snacks. But for now her food is up where Charlie hasn't yet figured out how to climb.

Chris & China (GA) said:
That's wonderful news! Getting a hard-core kibble addict to eat canned is one of the hardest jobs a lot of us have! When my China was diagnosed, I threw away almost 20lbs of what I had thought was extremely healthy kibble. No grains, or proteins at the top of the ingredients.

I was one of the lucky ones though. My 2 civvies (non-diabetic) cats absolutely loved the new food. I got a few dirty looks that said "So where have you been hiding this good stuff all our lives"? but they didn't miss that kibble a bit.
Click to expand...
 
Well, Charlie only ate half his wet food this evening and once again I failed to get an ear prick test. Going to keep trying for him tho.

Bit confused as to how much I should give him as normally he'd have had 1.5u with half a bowl but have eaten dry food during the day, so having only eaten half a bowl without the dry food should I drop the insulin? It'd be easier to judge if I could just get that darned blood test done :(
 
Hi,

Not great honestly, he's not eating very much, not pooping very much and not interested in toys or anything. I've not been able to get an ear test since the first one which is disappointing, that one went so well, and he complains and jumps away when i prick him so I'm worried it's hurting him.

I'm trying to get through to the vet for advice but they're impossible to get hold of.
 
This is worrying. He's not eating much? Like how much would you say he is eating in a day (or how much in the a.m. and how much in the p.m.?) And he normally is interested in toys? And now he is not? Does he seem lethargic to you? I see only one test on your spreadsheet (red.) It's not going well yet? I'm sorry. I cried a lot when first trying to do the ear testing. Are you using a lancing device or just doing it free hand. I always did free hand so I had more control (and no clicky noise from a lancing device.) And are you warming his ear first. I'm sure Diane gave you lots of good advice on this already. I would definitely get him to eat whatever you can using as many tricks as you need to. It's important that he eat. Is he drinking a lot of water? Is he urinating normally? Large amounts? Were you able to get a message into the vets at least?
 
I am very worried. He's probably eating a little less than 2 pouches a day. I have fed an additional half pouch of the low carb sheba between meals today.

I'm struggling to warm his ear first so I've bought an electronic hand warmer (for safe temperature control) and I've also actually shaved his ear a little to see if that helps me get a better pin prick. I am doing it freehand but quite often seem to go all the way through especially as he's twitching a lot. I'm rubbish at it. I'm going to keep trying though. It took me a couple of weeks to get the hang of the shots. Hopefully he will develop the additional capillaries and it will get easier to get a test.

He's always been a bit of a lazy boy but now even more so. He's perkier a couple of hours before he eats/gets his shot.

I've been trying to get hold of the vet since Monday but they are just impossible to contact when you have a disability that affects phone use. They refused to talk to my mom and said I should email so i emailed and they responded saying they can't advise by email. I'm most concerned about the lack of bowel movements as last time he didn't go for a while he had to have a procedure under anaesthetic and that could be lethal now with the poorly controlled diabetes.

I wish there was a CGM I could afford to stick to his scruff to get the blood tested properly :(
 
Oh that’s awful. You must feel so helpless.

Be sure to hold the lancet at about a 45 degree angle when trying to poke his ear — instead of just holding it straight up and down in a perpendicular manner.
 
How long since he had a BM? If he’s not eating much then of course that will mean less pooping, but it should not be zero. Also constipation can hurt his appetite as I am sure you already know from past experience. What do you have to give him for constipation? Do they have Miralax or similar laxative that you can give? It’s polyethylene glycol 3550. Perhaps a chemist would be able to help. I know that my friend in Australia could not get it and I had to mail her a large bottle for her cat who was really struggling.
 
Hi, I will try that with the Lancet thank you. I'm going to start doing *one* try every 2hrs I'm awake instead of just trying before his food. I am feeling very helpless.

Unfortunately it's a charity vet and they will not see him without an appointment and I cannot afford to go to another vet (and would lose his charity care if I did). It will also cost me £80 in taxis to take him this week which of course I will do if they will see him but if they won't it's too much money to waste and he will get very stressed with it too. Since getting Charlie my circumstances have changed drastically Unfortunately.

I'm wondering if I can give him paraffin to get his bowels moving. The vet prescribed it short term last time. I don't want to if it's risky tho. The lactulose doesn't seem to be helping.
 
Oh the last proper BM was FRIDAY and he had a tiny tiny one yesterday (less than the size of my pinky finger, normal shape and consistency but so small). The vet just doesn't seem to care refusing to speak to my Mom (even to just dispense general advice) and refusing to speak to me by email.
 
He's *just* now had a normal sized BM. Not abnormal in shape size and consistency although it's less than I expected given the length between poops!

*phew*

Suzanne & Darcy said:
How long since he had a BM? If he’s not eating much then of course that will mean less pooping, but it should not be zero. Also constipation can hurt his appetite as I am sure you already know from past experience. What do you have to give him for constipation? Do they have Miralax or similar laxative that you can give? It’s polyethylene glycol 3550. Perhaps a chemist would be able to help. I know that my friend in Australia could not get it and I had to mail her a large bottle for her cat who was really struggling.
Click to expand...
 
CatCharlie said:
Oh the last proper BM was FRIDAY and he had a tiny tiny one yesterday (less than the size of my pinky finger, normal shape and consistency but so small). The vet just doesn't seem to care refusing to speak to my Mom (even to just dispense general advice) and refusing to speak to me by email.
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What is the matter with those people!!!!
 
CatCharlie said:
Hi, I will try that with the Lancet thank you. I'm going to start doing *one* try every 2hrs I'm awake instead of just trying before his food. I am feeling very helpless.

Unfortunately it's a charity vet and they will not see him without an appointment and I cannot afford to go to another vet (and would lose his charity care if I did). It will also cost me £80 in taxis to take him this week which of course I will do if they will see him but if they won't it's too much money to waste and he will get very stressed with it too. Since getting Charlie my circumstances have changed drastically Unfortunately.

I'm wondering if I can give him paraffin to get his bowels moving. The vet prescribed it short term last time. I don't want to if it's risky tho. The lactulose doesn't seem to be helping.
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Lactulose is a “dose to effect” medication- meaning that you can give more as needed.
 
He is currently on the max the vet recommended though, but I'll ask if I can use paraffin in future.

We have a bit of a new routine:

I try once, max 2 pokes, to get a blood sample. He tolerates this. After that he gets upset so I'm letting him go and trying later. As his blood sugar is still high I'm not too worried.

He has the half pouch of regular food (gourmet gold or purina perle) he's used to every 12 hours half hr before his shot.

As he's not eating dry food now I'm giving him a few treats every few hours (zero carb freeze dried chicken, beef liver and whitefish as recommended on these forums) and an extra half to a full pouch of the low carb sheba wet food during the day depending on what he will eat. It's still less than he needs but I'm doing my best and will discuss with the vet when we go next week.

I'm not sure whether to continue with the 1.5mcg insulin given his reduced food intake or to stick with the 1 I've dropped him to since he stopped eating as much. From what I've read it's better to be slightly too high than ever too low? If I could get hold of the vet I could ask! But I can't!
 
You’re doing your best under very adverse circumstances. My only concern if he is very high - he actually needs more insulin and that we can’t see if he does or by how much his dose may need to be increased. But you will get the hang of it. So he’s eating a low carb wet food diet now?
 
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