blood sugar 430

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Elena

Elena

Member Since 2015
Hi everyone, I'm pretty new here and haven't posted in awhile. To make a long story short our cat was diagnosed with diabetes in Aug. The first vet wanted insulin but was very rude so we went to another vet who said as long as our cat's blood sugar stays below 400 we don't need insulin. We were happy to hear that but now our cat legs are very weak, I am assuming from what I read online it is from the high blood sugar. Fast forward to now we took our cat for blood work at the same vet's office but the old vet who didn't think a cat should have insulin if his sugar is below 400 is gone. It's another long story but we saw another vet at the same office who changed our cats diet from Royal canin feline Glycoblance to Purina DM when the in house blood sugar monitor showed his insulin at 395. He said that was not too high but if the food didn't work we would need insulin. He had complete blood work done and the vet's tec called us and told us the lab found his blood sugar to be 430 and the vet we saw wants insulin. Then we got worried and called back the vet and asked why the vet didn't call us with the results. We told them we are coming over to pick up food and we asked to speak to the vet who was in the office at the time. He was a new vet we never had treat our cat. He said if the food didn't work in a month or two we would need insulin which is what the vet we saw said but that was before he found out our cats blood sugar was 430. 430 seems high and don't get me wrong we don't want to give our cat shots. I am sure he won't tolerate it but it just seems weird that the vet that was there didn't say he needed insulin now, it was kinda like he didn't want to over rid what the vet we saw said about trying the new food first. Here is my question how bad is a blood sugar level of 430? The bottom line is I don't trust this vets office.
 
Hi Elena, sorry you're having vet problems-that happens a lot! Yes, 430 is too high, and in my opinion your cat probably needs insulin. A change in diet may help lower the glucose levels some and so is important to do. A low carb canned food is the best choice. It doesn't have to be from the vet, there are many grocery store brands that meet that criteria. Friskies Pate and Fancy Feast Classics are favorites around here. The weakness in the hind legs is possibly diabetic neuropathy. It will improve as you get the glucose under control. In the meantime, giving a methyl B 12 supplement can help. I use Zobaline which is made for diabetic cats, but you can use other brands as long as they do not contain sugars.
 
Hi Elena

So sorry you are having such problems with your vet.

Not to be unkind but your vet is WRONG!! A kitty that is not on insulin should have a blood glucose level of between 70-100 to be in the normal range. Using 400 as a "safe" number is not helping your kitty and is probably causing the pancreas to work even less efficiently and perhaps leading to other organ damage. Since you are not using insulin yet this would be the perfect time to change the diet to an all wet low carb food. Many people here use Friskies or Fancy Feast pates...not the gravy ones which are higher in carbs. These are acceptable food for a diabetic kitty.

Also if you would consider home testing using a glucose monitor you could get a much better idea how your kitty is doing on a daily basis. Here is a link to information on home testing:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

It may seem a bit overwhelming at first but it gets easier and is a wonderful way to track the glucose numbers and changes.

If the glucose numbers are still high with a diet change to low carb wet food then insulin is definitely needed. The longer your kitty stays in those high numbers the greater the chances for some serious complication. The neuropathy (weak back legs) is a direct cause of high glucose levels. Insulins such as Lantus (glargine) Levemir (Detemir) and Prozinc are long lasting gentler insulins that many kitties have done well on.

ETA If after one week with a low carb wet food...no dry food of ANY sort, the numbers are still high then insulin is needed ASAP.
 
Elena said:
430 seems high and don't get me wrong we don't want to give our cat shots. I am sure he won't tolerate it
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The syringes we use for insulin shots are very small (For Lantus, I use .3cc, 5/16", 31g syringes with half unit markings), and the injections are given subcutaneously (into the skin, not the muscle). I always give Bandit his shot while he's eating, and he's never even noticed he's getting a shot. Doing the injections isn't going to be as scary as you think it is, so please don't hold off on insulin if he needs it.

Agree, if you're feeding a low carb, canned diet only for a week and his numbers are still over 200, then you do need to start insulin. The good news is the earlier you start a good insulin like Lantus, Levemir, or Prozinc, the better the odds of remission are.
 
Thanks everyone, I do think the very first vet was probably wrong and now the other vets at the office don't want to go against what he said to fast. But on the other hand I do believe God is in control and maybe insulin was not part of the plan. I'm not a religious fanatic or anything like that but back in 2013 we had a rescue cat who was in liver failure and pancreatitis. He turned a bright yellow color in his ears. The vet sent him home to die. Long story short, we asked Jesus to heal him and today he is happy and healthy. I do have on more question, how much is insulin? What is the average cost a month? Thanks
 
Hi Elena, sorry I didn't see this yesterday. Cost/month varies, of course, with how much your kitty will need. The best insulins, ProZinc, Lantus & Levemir, may seem more expensive than others, but in the long run they can actually be cheaper since you use less and kitties respond better. Lantus and Levemir are human insulins and if you get a prescription from your vet we can tell you how to order the pens from Canada. One pen holds 300 units and most kitties will need only 2-4 units/day, and some even less. Talk to your vet and see if he's willing to write the prescription and we'll help you get the order in. Keep us posted on what your vet says. Here is the link for the pharmacy in Canada most of us use
https://rxcanada4less.com
 
Sharon14 said:
Hi Elena, sorry I didn't see this yesterday. Cost/month varies, of course, with how much your kitty will need. The best insulins, ProZinc, Lantus & Levemir, may seem more expensive than others, but in the long run they can actually be cheaper since you use less and kitties respond better. Lantus and Levemir are human insulins and if you get a prescription from your vet we can tell you how to order the pens from Canada. One pen holds 300 units and most kitties will need only 2-4 units/day, and some even less. Talk to your vet and see if he's willing to write the prescription and we'll help you get the order in. Keep us posted on what your vet says. Here is the link for the pharmacy in Canada most of us use
https://rxcanada4less.com
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ok thanks, I will see if they will write us a prescription.
 
Sharon14 said:
Let us know what your vet says.
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Thanks I sure will. It's not so scary for us now that we found this website. Tomorrow we are going to buy a glucose monitor to check his sugar at home, I watched a youtube video on how to do it by sticking the ear. We have a few old unused needles we got years ago from a vet who wanted us to give our rescue cat B12 at home. I am going to use those to stick his ear. If his sugar is still high we will call the vet and ask for the prescription but this office is all about the money and I think they will try to push their insulin which they said to 60 dollars for a 10ml bottle. But we will insist on a prescription. Thanks again.
 
If you dont want to use the needles you can pick up lancets from a drug store or walmart, they are in diabetic department right near the meters when you go to pick one. walmart sells a box of 100 for less then $2, you will go through alot of them when you start home testing :) As far as insulin pricing, my cat is on Prozinc, I get it from the vet currently, its $100 for a 10ml vial which should last awhile depending on what dose you will be giving. Did your vet say what type of insulin was $60? That sounds about in the Vetsulin price range. Some folks do ok with it, I used it for a week before we switched to Prozinc, and my boy has done much better on it. Let us know if you need any help getting started with the testing or have any questions :)
 
Sarah Smith said:
If you dont want to use the needles you can pick up lancets from a drug store or walmart, they are in diabetic department right near the meters when you go to pick one. walmart sells a box of 100 for less then $2, you will go through alot of them when you start home testing :) As far as insulin pricing, my cat is on Prozinc, I get it from the vet currently, its $100 for a 10ml vial which should last awhile depending on what dose you will be giving. Did your vet say what type of insulin was $60? That sounds about in the Vetsulin price range. Some folks do ok with it, I used it for a week before we switched to Prozinc, and my boy has done much better on it. Let us know if you need any help getting started with the testing or have any questions :)
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Ok thank you so much for letting me know, I guess it would be best to use the lancets. The vets didn't say what kind of insulin it was but the office is all about the money so I am pretty sure it is the cheap stuff, we want the human kind. I am just so anxious to get started, I hope we didn't hurt our cat waiting so long but I know God is in control, He saved our little rescue cat from sure death and He will do the same for Perkins.
 
When you buy your glucose monitor try to get one with the least expensive test strips. That's where the costs add up. Many people use the walmart relion meters and I've seen the target up and up mentioned on here too. Try to avoid meters with "true" in the name. The meter may come with some lancets but they will probably be thinner than what you want to start out with. Get 26-28 gague lancets labled for alternate site testing. They are not expensive. Using a syringe needle is overkill. While at the pharmacy pick up some urine test strips (also inexpensive). It's also good to have a low carb treat to give your kitty after tests ;).

I second the suggestion of switching to a low carb wet nonperscription food. The only diabetic perscription food that is ok for diabetic cats is wet purina dm. But it's no better than store bought pate, non gravy, food. A kitty's bg can drop quite a bit with the change, which means less insulin required. If you change the food after starting insulin you must be testing so best to switch now while you're getting everything in place.

ETA:And don't forget a treat for yourself!;)
 
billysmom (GA) said:
When you buy your glucose monitor try to get one with the least expensive test strips. That's where the costs add up. Many people use the walmart relion meters and I've seen the target up and up mentioned on here too. Try to avoid meters with "true" in the name. The meter may come with some lancets but they will probably be thinner than what you want to start out with. Get 26-28 gague lancets labled for alternate site testing. They are not expensive. Using a syringe needle is overkill. While at the pharmacy pick up some urine test strips (also inexpensive). It's also good to have a low carb treat to give your kitty after tests ;).

I second the suggestion of switching to a low carb wet nonperscription food. The only diabetic perscription food that is ok for diabetic cats is wet purina dm. But it's no better than store bought pate, non gravy, food. A kitty's bg can drop quite a bit with the change, which means less insulin required. If you change the food after starting insulin you must be testing so best to switch now while you're getting everything in place.

ETA:And don't forget a treat for yourself!;)
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Thank you so much for letting me know about target , Me and mom were going to get it from Publix but I am sure Target will be cheaper. The thing is our Perkins was block by crystals in his urine a few years back so he has to have a product that stops crystal from forming, that is why we have him on Purina Dm because it is for urine health too. I wish we could just feed him canned food but we really can't afford it. He has a huge appetite and would go through at least 2 cans a day. So we give one can and dry food. The vets in our state are merciless when it come to money. We asked for a discount on the food and they acted like I used a four letter word. We only has so much left on our credit card. I will try to see online if we can get it cheaper so we can just give him wet food.
 
If you cant find a meter you like at target I recommend the ReliOn Micro or Prime from walmart, the strips are very inexpensive and so are the meters. The micro needs the smallest sample and 100 test strips will cost about $36. The prime needs a slightly bigger sample but the strips are $18 for 100. Both meters run less then $20. I really hate advocating for walmart, but they've been a huge help with getting supplies through all this. Everything is there in one place and cost effective. I've even started buying insulin syringes there, much cheaper then the vet. Hope the info helps :)
 
Sarah Smith said:
If you cant find a meter you like at target I recommend the ReliOn Micro or Prime from walmart, the strips are very inexpensive and so are the meters. The micro needs the smallest sample and 100 test strips will cost about $36. The prime needs a slightly bigger sample but the strips are $18 for 100. Both meters run less then $20. I really hate advocating for walmart, but they've been a huge help with getting supplies through all this. Everything is there in one place and cost effective. I've even started buying insulin syringes there, much cheaper then the vet. Hope the info helps :)
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ok, thanks i'll check out walmart. The strips are a good price.
 
I called the vets office and they said they use Vetsulin Insulin 60 dollars for 10ml. I read on Petmeds that you have to use 3 time as much as Lantus. I want to get the Lantus from the Pharmacy in Canada, I see it cost 99 dollars which is so much cheaper than here. Here is costs 300 which we can't afford. As soon as I check his blood sugar today we will call the vet and tell them what we want.
 
Feeding dry food is going to cause problems with regulating the diabetes, and also with his urinary tract. The way to keep a cat's urinary tract healthy is to make sure there is plenty of moisture in their food, and dry food is counterproductive to that.

Purina DM is nearly identical to cheaper grocery brands of food like Fancy Feast or sheba pates. The only thing you're paying extra for is the label--there's nothing in it that helps diabetes or urinary tract health any more than a commercial low-carb, canned food. If the Purina DM is too expensive to feed full time and get rid of the dry, then I would stop feeding it and get a low carb canned food that you can afford to feed full time. There's a lot of options!
 
Since money is a concern, you can get 24 3oz cans of Fancy Feast classic for $12-14 on Chewy or Amazon. I love Publix, but I can just about guarantee online would be cheaper :) And there's a money value to getting rid of dry food in fewer vet bills for any urinary issues that would otherwise arise and in probably needing less insulin to get your kitty regulated.

As far as meters go, I've had a good experience with ReliOn Micro so far (any problems were decidedly user errors, lol). I had to call customer service recently and they were awesome.

I'm sure it feels like you're being bombarded with information, but you're doing great! It will feel like second nature in no time.
 
C&J said:
Since money is a concern, you can get 24 3oz cans of Fancy Feast classic for $12-14 on Chewy or Amazon. I love Publix, but I can just about guarantee online would be cheaper :) And there's a money value to getting rid of dry food in fewer vet bills for any urinary issues that would otherwise arise and in probably needing less insulin to get your kitty regulated.

As far as meters go, I've had a good experience with ReliOn Micro so far (any problems were decidedly user errors, lol). I had to call customer service recently and they were awesome.

I'm sure it feels like you're being bombarded with information, but you're doing great! It will feel like second nature in no time.
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Thanks, we do need to find a good long term meter. We are getting a cheap CVS on to start because they are free after rebate. I'll check out the ReliOn Micro. Thanks again
 
I called the vets back because when we got the blood work they also wanted a urine sample so I said we would bring one in but it is hard because perkins no longer can use a litter box because of his legs. He uses the human bed pads. I called to ask the vets if we should refrigerate the sample because we are going to get it around 1am in the morning..........it's a long story lol. Anyway I told the guy who picked up the phone we were buying our own blood meter, he said " have you every got blood from a cat before? "Do you know how to?" I told him I watched a youtube video, I think he was a little taken back by that. I guess he thinks someone should show me in person. I told him we would like Lantus and how do we know how much to give, he said they usually do a blood test to determine that. I said no more blood test, we cant afford it. He said then we will just have to check his blood sugar at home and go by that. He said we should talk to the vet. I must say I got a little intimidated when he asked if I knew how to get blood. I got scared and kept thinking if I poke his ears wrong the ear could get necrotic or he could get a infection. So when we go to drop off the urine I will ask someone to show me how and the does and don'ts. Its a long story but we have been going to this vets office since I was 12. There are too many bad memories there. We went to target and it turns out they have a CVS pharmacy in it. Strange, but we saw two CVS meters and decided on the purple one. It's says it is free after rebate. We might not use that one long term because I think the strips are a lot but they come with some so we will start with that one. To tell the truth this is too much for us to handle. We have to trust God with this. I know He can heal Perkins, just like He healed our Binky. Binky had everything done medically that could be done, even a feeding tube. That was not enough. He was still dying of liver failure. That is when God stepped in. We can't afford much more tests or meds so at some point we must turn this over to God. The battle is the Lords. I want to thank everyone for their advice , you guys are great.
 
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Hi everyone, we went to the vets office on Friday to drop off the urine sample, I wanted to talk to the vet or a tec to show me how to use the meter and we had more questions about his blood work. His Monocyte Count was over 700 and no one told us why, but they said they got in a lot of emergencies so we left a message for the vet to call us and of course he didn't call us back so we called sunday to find out the results of the urinalyses the lady vet who we never spoke to said he has a UTI and needed Clavamox, I told her he can't take that, the time he took it he kept throwing up. I ask for amoxicillin she said she didn't have the 50mg tabs they would have to be ordered. I asked her about the Monocyte Count, she said that was because of the infection, I sure wish they would have told us that 2 weeks ago when the blood work was done. I told her what the other vets said about trying a new food first before insulin, she said it was up to us, she said she has seen cats at 430 doing fine and some she has seen very sick. She said go ahead and check the blood sugar and let her know what we want to do, then she said she had to go because of a emergency so I called 1800 pet meds and they had the 50mg dose. I called them and they asked what does did I want so I told them what I thought, 50 mg twice a day and they sent the request to the vet. Since there was a emergency I am worried she just signed off on it and is using the dose I pick. Perkins weights about 15 and a half pound does this dose sound right? Thanks
 
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Have you heard back from your vet? I'm not sure of the dose of Amoxi, but your vet mentioned 50mg, so that's probably correct. In the future, when you have a new question, you may want to start a new thread so we realize you need help.
 
Sharon14 said:
Have you heard back from your vet? I'm not sure of the dose of Amoxi, but your vet mentioned 50mg, so that's probably correct. In the future, when you have a new question, you may want to start a new thread so we realize you need help.
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ok, thanks I didn't know to I was supposed to start a new thread.
 
That's ok. It's just that sometimes we look for new threads and questions and don't notice the old ones that already have some answers. How is Perkins today?
 
Sharon14 said:
That's ok. It's just that sometimes we look for new threads and questions and don't notice the old ones that already have some answers. How is Perkins today?
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I think he ok, he seems more alert. The vet said to get a animal blood sugar monitor, I told him about the ones for people. He said get the animal one......but he is a older gentleman in his 80's so I guess he is old school. I just said ok. We are probably going to a new vets office next month anyway.
 
Glad he's better. My vet and I had the same conversation. I don't really go to him anymore for diabetes treatment, just for everything else.
 
billysmom (GA) said:
When you buy your glucose monitor try to get one with the least expensive test strips. That's where the costs add up. Many people use the walmart relion meters and I've seen the target up and up mentioned on here too. Try to avoid meters with "true" in the name. The meter may come with some lancets but they will probably be thinner than what you want to start out with. Get 26-28 gague lancets labled for alternate site testing. They are not expensive. Using a syringe needle is overkill. While at the pharmacy pick up some urine test strips (also inexpensive). It's also good to have a low carb treat to give your kitty after tests ;).

I second the suggestion of switching to a low carb wet nonperscription food. The only diabetic perscription food that is ok for diabetic cats is wet purina dm. But it's no better than store bought pate, non gravy, food. A kitty's bg can drop quite a bit with the change, which means less insulin required. If you change the food after starting insulin you must be testing so best to switch now while you're getting everything in place.

ETA:And don't forget a treat for yourself!;)
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How often would you need to test once you changed th diet? We are considering changing this weekend so we can monitor it..... Like every 2 hrs?
 
Hi and welcome @HyperJMA Why don't you start your own thread here on the Health forum. You can tell us about your kitty, what your feeding, what kind and how much insulin, etc., then we can better help you. To answer your question, you should always test before you give the insulin shot and try to get a few mid cycle tests as well. If you are planning to run a curve this weekend, do the preshot test then test every other hour.
 
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