GA any advice??? can't tell - hypo/hyper extreme reaction

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jps

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BG- 68 at vets visit this past wedn, recommended to stop all insulin shots- had been on 2 units lantus- jake good this morning (7/6) conversation w vet early PM- no insulin until tomorrow where they will do BG testing... problem is we found Jake about 10pm on floor, sluggish, weak, carried him upstairs , starts drinking lots of water ate a little food, starts to stagger, jumps on kitchen counter- more water... do we dare to give him one unit? can this be the somolgian (sp) effect? Jake is still on counter... while we try to get to vet tech- any advice???
 
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Any luck getting a hold of vet? His BG could just be bouncing and he is not feeling well. I'd just make sure he has the water he wants and see if you can get him to eat a little at a time.

He hasn't had insulin today, correct?
 
CassAndGordy said:
I can't stay very long, but hopefully someone else comes along.

Do you have a meter to home test?

Could be a number of things, some relates to ketones or just smaller things. His BG reading is key here.

Anyone around?

@Wendy&Neko
@Gill & George
@Tanya and Ducia
@Bron and Sheba

I am trying to think of west coast members (or over seas) ...
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Jake's BG has been well regulated- until recently (5/5/17 pancreatitis/uti and then upper resp infection) have appt tomorrow AM- have fluids
 
CassAndGordy said:
Any luck getting a hold of vet? His BG could just be bouncing and he is not feeling well. I'd just make sure he has the water he wants and see if you can get him to eat a little at a time.

He hasn't had insulin today, correct?
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No insulin!
 
has he eaten?

What insulin was he on?
If Lantus or Levemir - he is still under the influence from the previous shot - we call it depot.

How long since the last injection of 2Unit and what has he eaten?
 
jps said:
We do have a bag of fluids - for hydration but someone mentioned that it could possibly help to flush some sugar out??
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If he is drinking a lot, i dont believe fluids would be needed.

It kinda sounds like he is feeling crummy, maybe his is bouncing from the discontinuation of the insulin. Gordy's symptoms come back if he is too high for just 2 cycles, so its possible Jake could be the same...

The staggering and weakness part concerns me though =/
 
Are you able to take his BSL?
Do you have any test strips to test if he has any ketones in his urine?
I would not give him any insulin until you know his BSL but I would be trying to get him to eat.
If you are not able to do these things I would be taking him to a vet. If you can't get into your own vet....I don't know the time where you are, I would get to an ER

ETA I see you said it was 10pm so you will probably need to go to the ER
 
fluids often help in many situations as long as there is not a heart condition.
are you home testing? any way you can get to a Walmart or Walgreens etc... to get a meter and strips? I would be very nervous about giving a unit without knowing his bg....
any update?
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
has he eaten?

What insulin was he on?
If Lantus or Levemir - he is still under the influence from the previous shot - we call it depot.

How long since the last injection of 2Unit and what has he eaten?
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Last lantus injection was wed at 10 AM - 2 units - vet BG test at 2:15 was 68, no insulin since then-- ate wednesday several times - DM crackers, other high protein food (beyond grain free, some A?D, baby food/ medley.
 
Jake is about 14/15- never quite like this...some vacant stares but seems to know where he is going-- would half a unit help-- ER is about hour away- if we can just get through the next 7 hrs...
 
h's had some baby food bout an hour ago-- haven't checked for ketones today- never had luck drawing blood- thick pads and black ears- vet tech couldn't do it...
 
last injection was wedn 10 AM! he's eaten quite a lot since then- but is refusing to eat right now...
 
jps said:
Jake is about 14/15- never quite like this...some vacant stares but seems to know where he is going-- would half a unit help-- ER is about hour away- if we can just get through the next 7 hrs...
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I think you should take him to the ER now. My concern is he might have ketones in his urine and be heading for DKA. Just having a high BSL should not give the symptoms he has at the moment.
You could ring the ER and ask their advice about giving insulin but I would not like to say...
jps said:
h's had some baby food bout an hour ago-- haven't checked for ketones today- never had luck drawing blood- thick pads and black ears- vet tech couldn't do it...
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You can test for ketones in the same way you test for sugar in the urine. there are strips called KETOSTIX.
I don't think you can wait for 7 hours to have him checked out. I wouldn't risk it myself.
 
just checked urine on pad from 10 minutes ago- it was positive for ketones- however urine is 10 minutes old
 
Bron and Sheba said:
I think you should take him to the ER now. My concern is he might have ketones in his urine and be heading for DKA. Just having a high BSL should not give the symptoms he has at the moment.
You could ring the ER and ask their advice about giving insulin but I would not like to say...

You can test for ketones in the same way you test for sugar in the urine. there are strips called KETOSTIX.
I don't think you can wait for 7 hours to have him checked out. I wouldn't risk it myself.
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I agree with Bron... 110%.
Unless you can provide info which will help pinpoint a problem, the very best thing to do is to take him to an ER. If we make suggestions they *could be* wrong. The last thing any of us want to do is any harm.

jps said:
just checked urine on pad from 10 minutes ago- it was positive for ketones- however urine is 10 minutes old
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Trace, Moderate, or High?
 
but there is that somogian effect that can show high glucose but its the liver enzyme that is making BG high- all determined by BG curve...
 
yikes, afraid that the 1 hr trip will put him over the top- fluids of 1 unit of lantus would not help???
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Anything over trace calls for a vet visit.
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Especially when combined with the symptoms you've described... "we found Jake about 10pm on floor, sluggish, weak, carried him upstairs , starts drinking lots of water ate a little food, starts to stagger, jumps on kitchen counter- more water".
jps said:
but there is that somogian effect that can show high glucose but its the liver enzyme that is making BG high- all determined by BG curve...
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Not applicable to this situation.

Having dealt with DKA, I'd be on my way to the ER. They have the tools to treat and can perform the appropriate tests.

 
one more question? if we were to be able to test him and sugar is high- would we be able to inject insulin without him eating?
 
jps said:
one more question? if we were to be able to test him and sugar is high- would we be able to inject insulin without him eating?
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Even if you're able to give him insulin, anything over trace ketones calls for a vet visit. Yes, insulin will undoubtedly help, but if over trace ketones... he needs to be treated for ketones ... before the ketones get worse (develop into DKA).
 
fluids before the drive??? were calling them now... very upsetting- jake still has sneezing issues possibly upper rep- perhaps our vet has not been totally upfront with prognosis- should have hospitalized him 2 months ago when we found trace ants of ketones- and yet we pulled him through...
 
yes, we went through the costly ER almost 3 years ago!! regulated until recently...
 
I wouldn't give him anything besides food and/or water prior to taking him to the ER... unless he is known to vomit during rides in the car. In that case, I think I'd just give him water. Take his insulin and syringes with you. Not sure if they'll want to give it to him. They might prefer using a fast acting insulin like R (usually they have it on hand). You also might want to bring some of his favorite foods.
 
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