9/7 Zener PMPS 407;+2 384 Dosing Advice ATrak

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Anne & Zener GA

Anne & Zener GA

Member Since 2011
Zener's condo 9/6/11

Okay, we knew things would be high but seeing black is really tough (though we know that with the alpha trak this is really a red number and we don't like that either!). ohmygod_smile Increased litter box use last night but otherwise he is acting like he feels better than hairball hacking last night. He wanted to eat this morning and is doing a little hunting in his backyard.

Yesterday's summary
9/6/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 340, 9th cycle @1.25, 1.2 oz 11%
+1, 1.5oz 11%
+2, 344, 1t. 11%
+5.5 182, 0.5 oz 10%
+8 133, 1.0 oz 10%
+9 142, 1 piece FDCK (freeze-dried chicken)
+10 130, 1 piece FDCK
+11 114
PMBG +12 93, 1 piece FDCK
+12.5 86, 2t. 17%, no shot
+13 125, not eating, trying to cough up hairball
+13.5, ate 1 oz 11% with 1/4t 17% on top to start him eating
+14.5 185, no appetite
+21, ate 0.5 oz 10% after waking us up for fud

Today
9/7/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 503, 10th cycle @1.25, 1oz 10%
Edited to add - 1st cycle @1.25 (since we had to skip dose)

I'm not sure if this counts as his 10th cycle because it is not consecutive, since we skipped last night? And is it possible to be having a bounce as well as having the effects on a skipped dose together?

We feel really conflicted with seeing such high numbers but were not able to stall again last night because of our work schedules, numbers were still dropping and last but not least, he wasn't eating. So, three strikes and the dose was out. We know we did the best thing we could with all that going on, but we sure didn't like it and neither of us slept good at all. We might was well been up testing!
:YMSIGH:

Today is our busy day as we both are teaching classes, but Liz can stay home until +3 and I can be back home about +7. We hope everyone in LL has a green and peaceful day!
 
Re: 9/7 Zener AMPS 503 ouch ATrak

That hurts, but it will get better. You did the right thing given the circumstances and Zener will come down. Count it as a fur shot and move on. Someone once told me that it is just one number out of thousands, so don't beat yourself up over it. Hope Zener comes down quickly and gently for you and you both have a wonderful day!!
 
Re: 9/7 Zener AMPS 503 ouch ATrak

Come on down Zener!!! Patience pants seem in order here... Hope you have a better day today- enjoy the morning...
 
Re: 9/7 Zener AMPS 503 ouch ATrak

Thanks Melissa, we kept repeating to ourselves, "it's like a fur shot". :-D We will pass along your message to Zener about coming down in a controlled fashion! I shall now have a new mantra - one number among thousands!

And thanks Gwen for offering encouragement to Zener (and beans). Your Smokey must be quite the guy. We could stage a race one day with his tripod gate and Zener's cerebellar hypoplasia swagger!
 
Re: 9/7 Zener AMPS 503 ouch ATrak

That is a good question. He has seen some greens with this dose. The higher numbers you are seeing (aside from the "fur" shot) appear to be bounces off of those greens. I would be tempted to leave the dose for a little longer and see if he can do something with it. Hopefully someone with more experience will come along and weigh in. You might edit your original title and put DOSING ? in it so it will flag them to look.

Good luck guys!!
 
Re: 9/7 Zener AMPS 503 ouch ATrak

Melissa & Tarragon said:
That is a good question. He has seen some greens with this dose. The higher numbers you are seeing (aside from the "fur" shot) appear to be bounces off of those greens. I would be tempted to leave the dose for a little longer and see if he can do something with it. Hopefully someone with more experience will come along and weigh in. You might edit your original title and put DOSING ? in it so it will flag them to look.
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Done and dusted, thanks for that suggestion Melissa. Zener was on this dose and doing pretty well, with greens close to an earned dose reduction, then I had to leave and we lowered the dose to 1.0u since Liz would be single mom for the first time, and he was pretty close to an earned reduction. We went back up to the last good dose 1.25 right before I came home and it still wasn't clear if it was a failed dose or still another bounce. So after several more cycles at 1.25 again, he started having green numbers and bounces. We thought about shaving the 1.25 after he clears this bounce? Advice is welcome!
 
Re: 9/7 Zener AMPS 503 ouch ATrak

Lisa and Do Lou said:
Come on down from the top floor Zener
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Thanks Lisa, Zener often reads his condo so we have paws crossed he will follow your instructions! I love the name Do Lou! :razz:
 
Re: 9/7 Zener AMPS 503 ouch Dosing ATrak

Hi guys .. yes, seeing the black numbers can be very frustrating .. mocha threw out a couple of those to us as well and it really bothered us .. just know he's got all day to come down from there .. and tomorrow is a new day altogether! Have a great day guys!
 
Re: 9/7 Zener AMPS 503;+2 481 Dosing ATrak

Thanks for stopping by and encouraging us Devon! It really helps, especially on these "numbers that shall not be named" days! ;-)

Today
9/7/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 503, 1st cycle @1.25, 1oz 10% (since we had to skip PM dose)
+1 1oz 10%
+2 481, 0.5 oz 10%

Zener is listening to you all and starting a nice slow slide downward, thank goodness. I'm off to school and Liz will be here to check again, then she has class too. I'll be home around +7 and can check if there is big action.
 
Re: 9/7 Zener AMPS 503;+2 481 Dosing ATrak

Helllo there !

In answer to your question regarding counting cycles, if you skip, the clock starts over.
 
Re: 9/7 Zener AMPS 503;+2 481;+7 449 Dosing ATrak

Today
9/7/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 503, 1st cycle @1.25, 1oz 10% (since we had to skip PM dose)
+1 1oz 10%
+2 481, 0.5 oz 10%
+7 449, 1 oz !0%

Despite the awful red numbers, Zener seems to be feeling pretty good. His urination is increased while in the these numbers, but otherwise he seems to be acting his usual self on a warm day with beans at work. We are adding extra water to his food, above and beyond the usual amount, while he is running such high numbers.

We are trying to take advantage of the slow drop to spend extra hours at work and running errands. Still, we hate these numbers!
cat(2)_steam
 
Re: 9/7 Zener AMPS 503;+2 481;+7 449;+10 366 Dosing ATrak

Today
9/7/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 503, 1st cycle @1.25, 1oz 10% (since we had to skip PM dose)
+1 1oz 10%
+2 481, 0.5 oz 10%
+7 449, 1 oz 10%
+10 366, FDCK (freeze dried chicken)

Zener continues his late drops. What is the opposite of cliff diving? We also gave him some freeze dried chicken since he always wants something in the late afternoon and we are wondering if he gets almost too hungry to eat at shot time.

Does anyone think there will be a problem with shooting a dropping number if it's so high? We are thinking that we need to shave his dose to a skinny 1.25u. This might be a good time to do that. We appreciate any and all advice.
Liz
 
Re: 9/7 Zener PMPS 407 Dosing Advice ATrak

Oh well, so much for shooting a dropping number... still, would like opinions please on shooting dropping numbers and on what ranges are relatively high enough and when to be more cautious?

Today
9/7/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 503, 1st cycle @1.25, 1oz 10% (since we had to skip PM dose)
+1 1oz 10%
+2 481, 0.5 oz 10%
+7 449, 1 oz 10%
+10 366, FDCK (freeze dried chicken)
PMPS 407, 2nd cycle @1.25u, 1.4oz 11%
+2 384, 1.3oz 11%

Zener had a high numbers cycle, not unexpected with skipping a dose and having a bounce from low numbers the day before. We are keeping the dose at 1.25 while the bounce is happening, or at least what we think is a bounce. ;-) His appetite is much better today, so we suspect the hairball tummy upset has passed for now.

Hope everyone has a quiet and restful night.
 
Anne: welll.....on shooting a dropping number, you have to absolutely know what your cat will do. IMHO, shooting a high dropping number is not a problem as long as you are watching closely. Also keep in mind that what may seem to be a dropping number at high numbers, isn't really. It's just meter variance. 20% of 366 is pretty durn close to 449. And definitely to his PMPS number. So keep that in mind....is it really a dropping number or is it just within meter variance.

When it gets to lower numbers....again...you MUST know your cat. You must know when they will come up, if you can get them up, etc etc. Zener is a tough one because of his eating issues. While I would not suggest anyone do this, I know I can shoot Gracie if she's dropping as long as she is above 50. I don't like doing it and I try to stop it by feeding her WHEN SHE'S LOW going into +10. I don't feed a +10 number that is above about 80-90 depending on whether she is breaking a bounce or just getting a second dip. Again, I do not suggest that you or anyone else does this. I know Gracie and I believe strongly in shooting the 12s if at all possible.

The other thing is to look and see if he has a dropping number or a second dip. They are different. Dropping numbers are scary to shoot low even if you know your cat because they "might" continue to drop after PMPS. A second dip should not be lower than the nadir and should come up after PS ....sometimes alot if the kitty gets a food spike.
 
Thanks Marje! This information really helps. We bookmark or print off these responses for reading often, as we sometimes panic a little and can't remember what we read before! It helps us calm down a little to read our "instructions", even though we may make a different decision, this information is the foundation for making our decision added in with how Zener seems to be doing. Thanks again for such a thorough and thoughtful response. I don't know how we could do this without all the wonderful help here in LL.
:YMHUG:
 
A couple of things to consider. You don't know if you actually have a dropping number until you get to shot time. Anticipating what's going to happen even an hour before you shoot may or may not be accurate. Remember, we're dealing with cats. They are, by definition, unpredictable.

It's often far less of an issue when shooting a dropping number when the numbers are high. Of course, if you have a cat that did what J.D. did yesterday, then you need to know that about your cat. I've shot a dropping number. It really depends on where I'm starting from. If Gabby is dropping from the 60s, I'm likely going to stall or otherwise manage her numbers. As Marje suggested, you need to know your cat and have the confidence in your ability to manage the numbers.

That said, I think you are going to need to work toward getting comfortable with shooting lower numbers. You've had an opportunity to see how Zener reacts to lower ranges. He does fine. IMHO, it's time to start ratcheting down the level where you're willing to shoot. Obviously, you'll need to be around to monitor and have the supplies (i.e,. strips, HC) to keep Zener safe but, if you want to see Zener continue to make progress, it's important to get comfortable with lower numbers.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
A couple of things to consider. You don't know if you actually have a dropping number until you get to shot time. Anticipating what's going to happen even an hour before you shoot may or may not be accurate. Remember, we're dealing with cats. They are, by definition, unpredictable.
Click to expand...
We seem to be unable to help ourselves in trying to anticipate what's going to happen. We are working on trying to recover from that habit. Both of us are planners so we are learning to live in the moment, and not making very fast progress at that!

Sienne and Gabby said:
It's often far less of an issue when shooting a dropping number when the numbers are high. Of course, if you have a cat that did what J.D. did yesterday, then you need to know that about your cat. I've shot a dropping number. It really depends on where I'm starting from. If Gabby is dropping from the 60s, I'm likely going to stall or otherwise manage her numbers. As Marje suggested, you need to know your cat and have the confidence in your ability to manage the numbers.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this, it helps to see what others do. I don't think we are quite that confident with our ability to manage Zener's numbers yet. But we are working on shooting dropping numbers if high, like this morning. The most difficult part is that now we are back in school our ability to stall is limited because of our teaching schedules. But we sure didn't like the results from skipping that dose when Zener was in the 90s and we couldn't stall!

Sienne and Gabby said:
That said, I think you are going to need to work toward getting comfortable with shooting lower numbers. You've had an opportunity to see how Zener reacts to lower ranges. He does fine. IMHO, it's time to start ratcheting down the level where you're willing to shoot. Obviously, you'll need to be around to monitor and have the supplies (i.e,. strips, HC) to keep Zener safe but, if you want to see Zener continue to make progress, it's important to get comfortable with lower numbers.
Click to expand...
Yes, we need to get a little more brave! Perhaps we can exchange our patience pants for courage pants!

Thanks for your reply and the most excellent information!
 
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