9/6 Baby's Numbers - PMPS+11 = 76 - Should I shoot?

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D

D & Baby

Member Since 2011
His numbers are down a lot.

Here is what I posted yesterday:
9:00 AM - 310
----21 mL FF
9:45 - shot
10:50 AM - 323
11:50 AM - 313
----21 mL FF
1:50 PM - 288
----25 mL FF
3:20 PM - 251
4:50 PM - 250
6:00 PM - 233
----25 mL FF + two bites deli turkey
7:30 PM - 210
8:45 PM - 186

Since then:
----28 mL FF
9:15 PM - shot
10:20 PM - 187
11:30 PM - 129
----30mL FF
12:25 PM - 91
1:15 PM - 85

Today 9/7:
5 AM - 71
----30mL FF
6 AM - 74
7 AM - 75

He greeted me loudly and happily this morning and was interested in/drank tuna juice but turned his nose up at food (different variety than I've been forcing on him, thinking he may have an aversion to those particular types of FF now). So I syringed him the FF.

I can check him at 6, 7, 8 and then feed again and then I need to shoot him somewhere in the 9 o'clock range. This is going to put me in something of a bind because it's going to require that I leave the house to take my children to school and then come back home to give the shot only and then leave because I have to get to work ASAP after that for a meeting that I can not miss.
I will not be able to take him to the vet this morning as they open at 8:30, husband has to leave at 6:30 and I have to take my kids to school.

Thoughts and advice?
 
Re: 9/6 Baby's Numbers - Should I shoot?

Unfortunately, I have no advice for you, and I hope that someone will be along shortly to help you.

Otherwise, Baby's #s are looking good. :D I hope that you have a good day!
 
Re: 9/6 Baby's Numbers - Should I shoot?

Last night I shot 1.25 for the first time -- up from 1.

He was originally prescribed 2.
 
Re: 9/6 Baby's Numbers - Should I shoot?

happy to hear he seems to be feeling better!

as far as whether you should shoot...
given the circumstances, it's difficult to offer suggestions . under normal circumstances it would be ok to skip a shot (which would get you back on schedule tonight) or shoot a reduced dose, but in good conscience i can't recommend skipping because you haven't been able to get a ketone test. if baby is throwing ketones, skipping a shot is not the way to go. i also don't feel comfortable suggesting shooting when he won't be monitored and probably won't eat on his own today.

i have to work now and won't be able to check in til around lunchtime, but i wanted to get this out there. if you're not going to be gone all day, please let us know. if we knew baby wouldn't be alone all day and will be fed we might be able to come up with a solution. there will be others online who should be able to guide you.
 
Re: 9/6 Baby's Numbers - Should I shoot?

If you are getting Ketostix today, you might also want to look into getting syringes that are marked in 1/2 unit increments. It's much easier to be consistent with dosing with the 1/2 unit syringes.
 
Re: 9/6 Baby's Numbers - Should I shoot?

Should I dose him a half? Would that be better than nothing at all?

I won't be home today and I can't come home and check on him -- I work half an hour from home (or more during traffic). I will get out of work as early as possible, but it won't be until 4ish. It's the best I can do.
 
Re: 9/6 Baby's Numbers - Should I shoot?

Can you get any tests in before you leave for work?

It's also difficult to answer your question without knowing what Baby's pre-shot test is. If he's still sitting in the double digits, I don't think you can shoot without being able to do any monitoring. You don't have enough data. You may be able to shoot a reduced dose if the numbers are starting out higher. A lot will depend on where the numbers are.

Unfortunately, I'm leaving for work shortly as well and probably won't be able to check in at your shot time. I don't think Jill will be able to check in based on her note and Libby is at work, as well. If you could post your test data, as you get it, in your subject line, if we are able to check in, at least we can see the numbers and not have to dig through posts.

If you edit the subject line, go to your first post in the thread, click on the "edit" button. Add the #s to the subject line and then click on "submit."

To make it easier, we count hours based on shot time. Your pre-shot is either AMPS or PMPS. Two hours after shot time is your +2, 8 hours later is +8. So if you shot at 10:00 your time, that was your PMPS. If it's around 7:00 your time now, that's your +9. This makes it much easier for everyone since we're all in different time zones.
 
Re: 9/6 Baby's Numbers - Should I shoot?

7 AM - 75

I can test at 8 as well and then I'll need to feed him and get kids ready/out the door.
 
Re: 9/6 Baby's Numbers - Should I shoot? PMPS+10 = 75

I shot at 9:15 last night, so I'm PMPS +10 is 75, right?

I'll put it in my subject line.
 
Re: 9/6 Baby's Numbers - PMPS+10 = 75 - Should I shoot?

Just "+10" is fine, PMPS is unnecessary.

I'll be around, for what it's worth, but it looks like you are probably skipping anyway. On the plus side, you can go right back on your target schedule tonight.
 
Re: 9/6 Baby's Numbers - PMPS+10 = 75 - Should I shoot?

To be picky, if you shot at 9:15, and it's now 7:00, it's your +9.75 (9 hours and 45 min. from your PM shot time).
 
Re: 9/6 Baby's Numbers - PMPS+10 = 75 - Should I shoot?

Hopefully, you can find time to call the vet today. They may be able to write you a prescription over the phone. Make sure to write down the medications from yesterday's post if you don't have easy access to this site at work.
 
Re: 9/6 Baby's Numbers - PMPS+10 = 75 - Should I shoot?

Hi guys .. I don't think I have stopped into baby's condo before, so welcome from us .. I am glad to see others are helping you with the shooting/dosing questions .. baby's numbers are looking nice! Have a great day guys!
 
Re: 9/6 Baby's Numbers - PMPS+10 = 75 - Should I shoot?

D

Sienne sent me a note that your shot time is around 9 and asked me to be available to help you. So if you can please be sure you post your number as soon as you get it, then I'll be watching for it and we can try and figure out what to do.

Thanks, D.
 
Thanks, D.

Is he eating at all on his own? If you leave food out, will he be the only one to have access to it and do you think he'll eat it....like the roasted turkey meat you gave him yesterday? Do you have time to feed him once you give him the insulin?

Do you have a pharmacy near you that you can grab some ketostix between now and shot time?
 
Thank you for coming by Marjorie and Michelle!

The discussion earlier was that <100 was not shootable given the very limited data we have so early in treatment. Baby also went through almost 36hrs of low numbers a couple days ago with no insulin, so it seems like the pancreas is intermitantly kicking in at full force.
 
Thanks Sam!! Sienne sent us the information :-D

D:

Two more questions if you can respond please:

1. Is it possible at all for you to participate in your meeting via teleconference? I have to do this frequently if Gracie is dropping. Your managers might not be as wonderful as mine (mine are all cat people). That would give you the opportunity to be in the meeting but monitor him so you could shoot a reduced dose. You could go in once he's up.

2. If that isn't possible, is it possible for anyone (neighbor, relative, friend) to come in and feed him some higher carb food over the next several hours?
 
I have not heard anything. At this point, I suspect that D decided that she would just go straight to work and try to build up enough goodwill points to spend later!

I can continue to monitor this thread during the day, in case something comes up.
 
Sam and S'mores said:
The discussion earlier was that <100 was not shootable given the very limited data we have so early in treatment.
Click to expand...
For the record, I want to reiterate Jill's other point, which is that without knowing whether Baby is throwing ketones, there is risk in this recommendation (inappetant cat, recently treated for infection, recently reduced dose significantly, those factors are a perfect recipe for ketones). There is also risk in recommending giving a shot to a cat that probably won't eat, obviously. Rock, meet hard place.

D, is there ANY way to get a ketone test in this morning? Without it, we are just guessing, and guessing makes me very uncomfortable when a cat's health and safety are involved. And can you answer Marjorie's questions about his appetite and whether anyone will be available to feed?

I'm just checking in quickly on lunch break, and I'm heading back to work now.
 
Sorry for not posting sooner but I just got to work, logged on, etc. I came to work straight from the school drop off figuring if I got here sooner I might be able to check out earlier.

I did not give the shot, but I gave him about a half can of FF (via syringe) at 8 this morning after getting the 76 number.

I work for a great company that allows a lot of flexibility and my boss is awesome. I work part time and work from both home and office. And I am only in the office two days a week, so meetings are often scheduled around me. It looks bad for me to blow them off -- but I still would have done so today except for this particular one. In fact, I'm going to see if I can rearrange my afternoon schedule so that I'm home earlier than I would be otherwise.

I left some food out, although he doesn't seem to want to eat much on his own and his brother is a little hog so I will have no way of knowing who actually ate it if it gets eaten. I have a neighbor who can look in on the cats, but I can't ask her to feed him with a syringe. He likely would not go for it, anyway.

I have to say, I've had very little sleep the last few nights, I'm coming down with a cold and I'm worried about my son at school today -- all of this is leaving me a feeling a little overwhelmed.

Off to my meeting now and then to call the vet. I'll report back after.

And thanks for everything -- I really appreciate the support here. It's awesome.
 
I'm overwhelmed just reading about it, so I can only imagine how you are feeling. Fingers and toes crossed that Baby gets the eating thing back in gear quickly for you!
 
wishing you the best! I look forward to seeing how things are going when you get home today. I hope that baby gets back to eating on his own soon. I know how trying it can be. Good luck - I hope your day goes well today, and that all is OK with your son.
 
Ketostix and half unit syringes!

And, any of the appetite enhancers that you haven't yet tried that Jill suggested should be on the shopping list.
 
just checking in...
libby, thank you for reiterating the point about not shooting. it's as important as shooting when we don't know the underlying cause for a kitty not eating on their own.

D, your plate is full. i'd be overwhelmed, too. it's not easy to manage all that's going on under the best of circumstances. somehow or another we moms manage to juggle all the balls we have in the air for our families and fur kids, but there's no doubt it takes it's toll. routinely testing baby's urine for ketones and getting him to eat on his own will take a lot of the pressure off.

it'll be interesting to see what baby's blood sugar is when you get home.

hugs...
 
:YMHUG: you have a lot going on - and school starting as well.

we're all trying to support you as much as possible while still giving you the information you need. where in washington are you? if you are in the southern part, vancouver -ish - i might be able to come and give you some support. i'm south of salem and my kids are all grown now.

i know how overwhelming this is.
 
Julie -- that is so sweet.
I'm actually in the Seattle/Tacoma area, so a bit too far, but thank you so much.

I'm overwhelmed but feeling very zen, to be honest. It's the lack of sleep that's killing me - feels like jet lag and a newborn combined!

I talked to the vet - gave her the whole story chapter and verse, and she is prescribing an appetite stimulant. Because Baby is behaving normally much of the time and only vomited the one time, she thinks he does not require anti-nausea meds. She'd like me to try the stimulant for a day and see how it goes. And if it's not going well to bring him in. She's also going to give me ketostix. So that's where I'm at right now.

I'm going to try to scoot out of work early today and I work from home tomorrow and Thursday, so I'll be able to monitor him a little closer in the next few days.
 
Great to hear. If you post the exact medication, I'm sure you'll get plenty of suggestions ;-)

I'm going home now for solo parent duty, so I'll be unavailable until later, but there should be plenty of people around to help. Good luck!
 
Ketosticks and the lab reports too. Ketoacidosis can kill quickly.

Also vets prescribe sometimes 400% too much stimulant. Please post here before giving it to Baby so we can advise. Instead of a whole tab you need to start at 1/8th of a tab or 1/4 depending on the drug and strength of the pill. Else it can cause extreme agitation, yeowling etc.
 
D, i bet there are 100 people on here who would come and help if they were close enough. i'm glad you're feeling zen about all of it - yes, lack of sleep is the hardest part.

once Baby gets a little more regulated, or at least out of the crisis, and back on track everything will start looking better.
 
Here is what I got from the vet:
Cyproheptadine HCI 4mg
Instructions are:
1/2 tablet by mouth twice a day

Let me know if this is one I should dose lower. I won't give him anything until I hear otherwise. I couldn't find anything on the Yahoo groups site, but I had little time at work to do anything but work.

His BG at 4:45 (PMPS +20?) is 422. I don't know what the hour is past the shot. Got to run to pick up kids and feed Baby.
I want to give him his shot tonight at 7 pm. That is two hours from now.
 
You know, if you didn't shoot insulin this morning, you can now change your shot schedule to be 6:00am and 6:00pm.
That may give you 1 hour before your have to leave at 7:00am for work to test and feed. Just a thought.
 
Do I need to test 30 minutes to an hour prior to the shot?

If so, I can not consistently get up at 5 am or even 5:30 to give a 6 am shot. I was thinking 7 would work better for that reason alone.
 
You only NEED to test just prior to the shot. I liked having a measurement 1 hour earlier, but I knew that S'mores would eat. Since you are fighting eating, I would think that having an hour to feed after the shot would be better. The measurement at +1 is worth getting, but it's not likely to tell us a whole lot most days since the Lantus will not really be kicking in yet.
 
Hi D - I faithfully get a test 1 hour prior to shooting - only because it really give you an indication of where the cycle is headed - is he going up? is he coming down. By no means is it required... just one of those tools we use to give us a heads up on what to expect. Same with the one an hour after. I like to get a +2 after shot, as by then onset has started. Sometimes too I will get a +1 after shot, if I suspect a very active cycle.

Can't help with the meds - out of my realm of knowledge...
 
That is food for thought.

I've been feeding him just prior to giving the shot so that I know he has/will have something in his stomach. (As opposed to after since I won't know for sure if he will eat.)
 
You do not need to feed a half an hour before you shoot. You have roughly 2 hours before Lantus starts to take effect. Once you do a full curve, you'll have a better sense of when Lantus onset and nadir are for Baby. In this regard, every cat is different (ECID).

FWIW, I shoot at 6:00. Unless I'm up for some reason, I roll out of bed and test, feed, and shoot. If the number is too low, I can stall. I get home from work at my PM shot time. Here's the big however.... I have a ton of data, it is an anomaly for Gabby to not eat, I will and can shoot low numbers, and I know how to manage low numbers. When I first started, I shot at 7:00 and this gave me an hour from when I woke up to take a look at what was going on.
 
I was wondering the same thing. I was thinking 1 unit and the vet concurred. But I'll take advice. I absolutely can not stay up as late tonight as the last two nights because I am running on empty. So if 1 unit is less likely to have him hit some major low, than I think it would be best for me. I'm obviously not experienced at this, though.

Sam -- Thank you for the spreadsheet. The Google doc will not work no matter how many times I try and I have not been on a computer I could download the form onto until now when I honestly don't have the time. I will get back to you on it, but probably not until tomorrow.

Re: the meds: I am going to start tomorrow when I can monitor him more closely. Again, because I absolutely need to sleep.
 
Since you skipped a shot, I don't think there is much risk of going too low tonight, but on the other hand, we don't want to get into a rollercoaster where we keep skipping shots every couple days.

Try to get as much food in as possible before you collapse into bed. @-) @-)

If you just tell me your username on Google, I can set it up so that you can edit the spreadsheet too. Until then, I think I have most of the data in. I'm just missing any other measurements from today and the food from today.

Baby's SS
 
7:05 - 443
shot - 1 unit

I don't remember what I used for my account name and I have to deal with kids/homework/baths right now, plus my own dinner. I'll update later.

THANK-YOU! I really appreciate it.
 
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