? 9/20 Amps 342, +5 76 please help

SmallestSparrow

SmallestSparrow

Very Active Member
I don’t know what I did wrong but I’m sure I’m making it worse. I expected the 342 amps after skipping a pm shot 2 days ago and reduced to 3.25. I know this is normal bg but he doesn’t drop like this and my goal is keep him in 100s. Always. I panicked. I first fed LC but when I couldn’t reach vet fed 7 HC treats. 20 min later the same so I panicked more and fed him Karo with the LC. So now I don’t know how often to check and for how long to check. He’s 119 now but how badly did I mess up and how long/often to monitor
Thanks

edit: advice about the pm shot also gratefully welcomed.
 
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@Wendy&Neko do have any advice on when I can stop testing and when it’s safe to leave him alone (I know the karo and treats were an error)…the only other thing I can think of is the insulin is over a month old so Ive refilled it but am afraid to leave to go pick it up
 
SmallestSparrow said:
Thank you i couldn’t figure it out and am a bit disorganized at the moment
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No problem at all Colleen .I'm glad Methos has come up for you , I hope Wendy will get back to you
One suggestion when you post on the Lantus Board please put in your title
Date Methos AMPS # and any additional tests after that and link your previous days post to it :bighug::bighug:
@SmallestSparrow
 
It’s in a refrigerator. Its own refrigerator so the door doesn’t get opened more than Twice a day. I was crying this am @342 bc I had to give him a smaller dose and now this. I do not understand this. It’s like a nightmare
 
SmallestSparrow said:
It’s in a refrigerator. Its own refrigerator so the door doesn’t get opened more than Twice a day. I was crying this am @342 bc I had to give him a smaller dose and now this. I do not understand this. It’s like a nightmare
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But if the insulin is stored in the refrigirator, it is most likely still good. Or is it cloudy somehow? I learned here, that if it is refrigirated well, many people use it much longer than one month. I do too. Hope Elise or Wendy check on you soon!
 
Headed down again. He had nml breakfast of 50 cal. Nml snack of 30. Nml lunch 50 cal. This was @+5 All low carb. Since then 75+ cal (I forget) low carb. 15 (or more) HC treats. 2.5-3 cc karo. Most before the 98–but at 98 got about half of the total karo and 2/3 of the treats above. Bc I don’t know what I’m doing and can’t reach those who might
 
Heike & BInie said:
But if the insulin is stored in the refrigirator, it is most likely still good. Or is it cloudy somehow? I learned here, that if it is refrigirated well, many people use it much longer than one month. I do too. Hope Elise or Wendy check on you soon!
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It looks fine. Everything should be working right but I’m killing my cat. My vet said 98 is ok but I think something is really wrong. If I don’t feed him karo and HC treats it starts dropping again
 
Your old insulin is still working, otherwise he wouldn't have gotten into the 70's. :D. Most people here can get around 6 months out of a vial stored in the fridge. Or get pens next time, that way you have a smaller amount open at once, and they usually good to the last drop.

As far as dose go, I'm not sure what dosing method your vet uses. I could suggest a drop to 3.0 units if you want to keep him always above 100.

SmallestSparrow said:
if I don’t feed him karo and HC treats it starts dropping again
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What happens is that the karo and high carb treats wears off after a couple hours, maybe sooner for karo. Do you have any high carb wet food on hand? And no, you aren't killing him. :bighug:. You are keeping him safe by testing, catching those lower numbers, and giving him carbs to bring him up. Now that it's later in the cycle, you probably don't need as much carbs or the same amount of carbs will boost him even more. And you want to try to not feed him anything after +10, or it'll be a carb influenced number at preshot time.

Note, it's ECID how many carbs a cat needs, but typically we start with a drop of Karo, not a cc.
 
SmallestSparrow said:
It looks fine. Everything should be working right but I’m killing my cat. My vet said 98 is ok but I think something is really wrong. If I don’t feed him karo and HC treats it starts dropping again
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Take a deep breath. I don’t think you’re killing your cat. :bighug:

Those numbers are on an AlphaTrak, correct?

The 98 is a nice, good number on an AT, especially at that point in the cycle.

How is Methos acting? I understand he’s an exceedingly complicated case. Listen to your cat. Is he acting stressed, restless, lethargic, anything out of the ordinary?

I would continue testing to see where this cycle goes. All data is good and the more you learn, the more you will get confidence when he hits lower numbers.

(just saw that Wendy replied for dosing—glad to see that as I was thinking the same things)
 
I know the insulin is working. But it’s working too well and unpredictably. It’s the only thing I can change

my vet was going to drop him to 3 but I begged for 3.25 bc when he was on 3 he was in 300s with ketones 0.4. And bc everyone here thinks I’m a wuss hurting him by keeping him out of green and I want him to feel better. I promised I wouldn’t text her again about low sugars if he could try 3.25. That was yesterday. I texted her today.

he won’t eat medium or high carb wet food. He will eat high carb dry and greenies and pill pockets. Those are in order of increasing carb. But he was already full of his low carb food.

he’s difficult to judge bc he always sleeps a lot between meals. When he was in 100s last few days he was more active. Today he’s awake if he hears the greenies.
 
@SmallestSparrow
Hi Colleen if you don't have any med or hc food
Med and High Carb food and have honey in your house



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods



https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

10% and under is low carb
11% -15 is medium carbs.

16- 24 is high carb.

I just saw you said he won't eat any med or high carb food, you can always open a can and keep the lid on it and squeeze out the Gravy, that's really where the carbs are
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Your old insulin is still working, otherwise he wouldn't have gotten into the 70's. :D. Most people here can get around 6 months out of a vial stored in the fridge. Or get pens next time, that way you have a smaller amount open at once, and they usually good to the last drop.

As far as dose go, I'm not sure what dosing method your vet uses. I could suggest a drop to 3.0 units if you want to keep him always above 100.


What happens is that the karo and high carb treats wears off after a couple hours, maybe sooner for karo. Do you have any high carb wet food on hand? And no, you aren't killing him. :bighug:. You are keeping him safe by testing, catching those lower numbers, and giving him carbs to bring him up. Now that it's later in the cycle, you probably don't need as much carbs or the same amount of carbs will boost him even more. And you want to try to not feed him anything after +10, or it'll be a carb influenced number at preshot time.

Note, it's ECID how many carbs a cat needs, but typically we start with a drop of Karo, not a cc.
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Wait. Were you saying 3 meaning the pm shot? I thought you meant in general
 
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
@SmallestSparrow
Hi Colleen if you don't have any med or hc food
Med and High Carb food and have honey in your house



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods



https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

10% and under is low carb
11% -15 is medium carbs.

16- 24 is high carb.
Click to expand...
I tried the proplan on list but he’s very suspicious of change. The pet store didn’t have fancy feast but I’ve tried several brands before looking for a high carb food he would eat. The only winner was Instinct Heslthy Weight Chicken but that kibble. He doesn’t like canned instinct (which isn’t as high carb anyway)
 
@SmallestSparrow

I just saw you said he won't eat any med or high carb food, you can always open a can and keep the lid on it and squeeze out the Gravy, that's really where the carbs are and let him lick it up, or maybe you can give him his low carb wet and pour the gravy on it
 
I have karo even though it has vanilla but vet said ok. I have honey also but unsure about risk since his immune system isn’t nml. Luckily he loved the karo. Esp with greenies mixed in
 
You can check 1/2 hour after that last sugar boost. Carbs takes 20-30 minutes to go from the plate to the blood stream. So test again now.

Changing the insulin won't change the unpredictability.
 
JL and Chip said:
Take a deep breath. I don’t think you’re killing your cat. :bighug:

Those numbers are on an AlphaTrak, correct?

The 98 is a nice, good number on an AT, especially at that point in the cycle.

How is Methos acting? I understand he’s an exceedingly complicated case. Listen to your cat. Is he acting stressed, restless, lethargic, anything out of the ordinary?

I would continue testing to see where this cycle goes. All data is good and the more you learn, the more you will get confidence when he hits lower numbers.

(just saw that Wendy replied for dosing—glad to see that as I was thinking the same things)
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Well I know that with 2.5+ cc (I gave up on syringe and poured) a handful of treats and twice his usual low carb food he is 98 at 9.5 which isn’t really something I’d hoped to learn. :(
Yes alpha trak so the number is the number, it would look lower on a human meter. in really don’t have issues (well some) with a theoretical 98. But going lower is the question.
 
He will hate me for this, as he’s always been a trim muscular guy with a beautiful Siberian coat, and normally even now he doesn’t look this bad…but the last six months he’s taken to sleeping with his eyes open in a road kill position. So Methos thanks you all and I especially from the bottom of my heart
 
upload_2024-9-20_13-58-33.jpeg Did this not post
 

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Heike & BInie said:
Awwwww... he is a cutie! Must feel a little naked with the trimmed fur but hopefully it grows back fast. I hope the night will be more relaxed for both of you! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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:bighug: Actually the lowest part he lost his hair (part of Cushing’s but was assumed to be over grooming ) but his abdomen (and front legs in area) were shaved in January 2023 when he was in hospital and bc of Cushing’s never grew back. Shame, his coat was always gorgeous but especially on his belly
Thank you!
 
Thanks to all and to make clear, my vet would rather I’d not broken out the karo esp the second time and would have preferred the greenies stayed in the pantry and told me yesterday she thought we should reduce to 3U. So prettt much I’m still batting 1000 in the wrong decision department.

edit also her only stated goal is glucose below 250…I can’t recall her low point cut off bc mine is 100ish
 
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Looks like a well deserved bounce in progress? Do you feel like shooting tonight?

Note, in an hour I have to be away for a few hours so won't be able to help after then.
 
Should i give him 2? 2.5? 3?
I don’t understand bounce will it mean he goes lower or higher tonight and lower or higher tomorrow
 
I gave 2.75 before at 200 but he was on 3.5 then and the lowest in the previous cycle was 142. Now lowest is 75 when his dose had been reduced to 3.25
 
Definition of bounce from the New to the Group Sticky Note:
Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

If bouncing it means higher numbers for up to 6 cycles.

How long since the last test? If 20-30 minutes, test again and see if he's still rising.

Here we dose based on how low the dose takes the cat, not the preshot values (unless that is the low).
 
SmallestSparrow said:
Just me working on worst cat mom ever award.

thanks so much Shelia, I hope Minky is doing better.
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You are not; it is okay and you have lots of support here. The more we learn, the more confident we become. Everything is overwhelming because we are learning so much at once. You are an amazing cat mama. You wouldn't stress so much if you didn't love him so much <3

Minky is higher again today, but a bit more herself. It is a battle.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Definition of bounce from the New to the Group Sticky Note:
Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

If bouncing it means higher numbers for up to 6 cycles.

How long since the last test? If 20-30 minutes, test again and see if he's still rising.

Here we dose based on how low the dose takes the cat, not the preshot values (unless that is the low).
Click to expand...
I fed him. I’ve drawn up 3 which I can reduce to lower if I get courage enough to give any.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Definition of bounce from the New to the Group Sticky Note:
Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

If bouncing it means higher numbers for up to 6 cycles.

How long since the last test? If 20-30 minutes, test again and see if he's still rising.

Here we dose based on how low the dose takes the cat, not the preshot values (unless that is the low).
Click to expand...
Thanks I’d read the sticky but couldn’t tell if it meant higher, lower or both and in posts it seems to refer to both.
So if it is going to be higher I should be ok with 2.5 or even 3. Right? How often would I test him after giving it ?
 
How long since you tested that 249? If about 1/2 hour or more, test again. If he's still rising significantly, it's a bounce. Your call whether you feel comfy with 2.5 or 3.0.

Numbers wobble around during a bounce, but dumping sugar into the system means overall higher numbers for a while. Until the bounce breaks or resolves.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
How long since you tested that 249? If about 1/2 hour or more, test again. If he's still rising significantly, it's a bounce. Your call whether you feel comfy with 2.5 or 3.0.

Numbers wobble around during a bounce, but dumping sugar into the system means overall higher numbers for a while. Until the bounce breaks or resolves.
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274 but id fed him.
 
My vet just said 2 and I promised I would do as told bc she’d said reduce to 3 and I pleaded for 3.25. So 2 it is. Which should be really safe tonight but how often should I check him please?
 
Start with a +2 test. That'll tell you how often you need to keep testing. Or if you do. A +2 higher than preshot means a quieter night. About the same is a normal Lantus cycle with some downward action, quiet a bit lower can mean more action.
 
What’s distressing is it doesn’t seem like he’s doing what other SS look like. Or even how he’s been. Others give insulin @ 100 and then go to 70s—yeah I can see that which is why I don’t even want to get to 100 let alone give the shot there. But 342 or whatever to 75–he’s never dropped like that. I don’t know where it would have gone without me (probably wrongly) feeding him so many carbs. Before I’d give 3 at say 320 and it would climb all night to 370. so I can tell myself that when he was getting 2 nothing moved in the down direction but he’s not doing what I expect now at all and my prior data seems useless.

idk if sometimes I do the shot right and other times maybe it’s intradermal—I don’t think so but he doesn’t have much loose skin bc his belly pulls everything so tight.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Your old insulin is still working, otherwise he wouldn't have gotten into the 70's. :D. Most people here can get around 6 months out of a vial stored in the fridge. Or get pens next time, that way you have a smaller amount open at once, and they usually good to the last drop.

As far as dose go, I'm not sure what dosing method your vet uses. I could suggest a drop to 3.0 units if you want to keep him always above 100.


What happens is that the karo and high carb treats wears off after a couple hours, maybe sooner for karo. Do you have any high carb wet food on hand? And no, you aren't killing him. :bighug:. You are keeping him safe by testing, catching those lower numbers, and giving him carbs to bring him up. Now that it's later in the cycle, you probably don't need as much carbs or the same amount of carbs will boost him even more. And you want to try to not feed him anything after +10, or it'll be a carb influenced number at preshot time.

Note, it's ECID how many carbs a cat needs, but typically we start with a drop of Karo, not a cc.
Click to expand...
Reread and saw drop of karo. She’d said 1/2 tsp for under 50, med carb food under 80. But i panicked when greenies and pill pockets didn’t work. I have to say my goal was never open the karo. So I tried a cc (1/5 of a tsp) and later when he started down again I tried to draw up another cc but wouldn’t draw up so I poured.
my vet is very kind but I could tell she was disappointed sbout the karo especially since she’d already discussed not leaping to greenies
She’s joked that she’s going to sneak into my house and take away my meters. After this she will probably put a lock on my karo also
:oops:
 
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