9/14 Leo AMPS 501no shot/vet +5 554 PMPS 376 +1 411 +5 391

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Lisa & Leo

Lisa & Leo

Member Since 2012
Hi all,

Yesterday's Condo

AMPS 486
+1.5 439
+3 371
+5 354
+10 423
PMPS 460
+5 358

Sorry I disappeared off the face of the planet for a few days. It's been a rough couple days and this is catching up with me emotionally and physically.

Leo has had bouts of diarrhea since he adopted us in January and got meds with his DX in early August. But that, and other symptoms, led the vet to suggest at the time he might also have EPI - Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency. The test and the treatment are expensive. Since several of the symptoms overlap with diabetes (including diarrhea secondarily according to her), we decided to delay testing to see if the symptoms cleared up with insulin treatment. The recurrent diarrhea has not. Nor have the delightful litterbox odors which (as my grandmother used to say) would knock a buzzard off a **** wagon. (Sorry for the language ... saying "sh*t" just takes the oomph out of the quote!) Classic midwestern USA.

As Sienne pointed out to me, I should get a B12/cobalamin test. He already gets B12 shots to help with the FIV, and which the vet suggested would help with the EPI if he had it. So he's been on B12 injections for 3 weeks. But I will ask about the other one.

Anyway, he goes for the test today, and also for some kitty xanax of some sort. He'll have to travel this weekend for at least 10-12 hours because I have no sitter yet for the weekend. Any advice on meds? I don't want him *out* or stupid. Just a step down on the anxiety scale.

More later. I doubt we get any results today, but he gets no insulin this morning nor any food until later. He's milling around on the table on my arms, between me and the computer, demanding his BG test and treat. :smile: Poor guy.

I also plan to raise his dose this evening. I'm still convinced the last reduction was a little too low, even though technically he earned it. He's settled into pinks and reds the last several cycles. So unless there are strong reasons I shouldn't, I'd like to do this.
 
Re: 9/14 Leo no AM injection - vet

Here is your link to Yesterday's Condo: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=79005

Good morning Lisa. Sorry, I haven't been following all of your condos. Have you decided to take Leo with you when you're away? I believe my vet said not to sedate a diabetic (but that's just me with J.D. on a 6 hour flight). We use Rescue Remedy to help calm him on flights, and Ginger too, on long car rides.

I can see why you want to increase the dose. Let's see what others have to say.

I wish you a good day, and I want to wish Leo some good vet visit vines today.
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Hi guys .. hmm, guess I did not realize that leo had other health issues besides diabetes .. I hope the test results get you the answers you are looking for .. I agree with Dyana, a lot of people on here use rescue remedy, you just dab it on their ears I believe, and it tends to calm the kitties down .. Good luck with everything today and the extra juice when you take it!
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Rescue Remedy - I'll check it out - thanks for the recommendation.

We know Leo is FIV+ (DX at same time, he got it from a cat fight at the time he adopted us), but the EPI was just a thought at the beginning when all was happening at once. I certainly hope he doesn't have it. But if it settles the diabetes bouncing, I hope he does. It, itself, is not fatal. Just a lifelong commitment to providing the right enzymes to break down food.

After this AMPS value, he's going up in dose from 1.0u to 1.25u. I know the protocol says something like 6 cycles of nadirs above 200 or something, but as I was told before (for a different dose question), they are guidelines. Today's AMPS has nothing to do with a missed dose. I'm so sad to think what his values will be throughout the day, and how many cycles it will take to get him back even to pinks.

Leo will have to travel on a weekend visit to the kids. I hope not to have to take him to work with me during the week, but it may come to that, so next weekend will be a trial run for what could be hours and hours of feline anguish and frayed bean nerves.

Thanks to you both for the warm wishes for my baby. Thanks for linking my Condo Dyana - I wasn't thinking right this morning, since I wasn't posting after his normal injection. I went back and added his info.
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Aww Lisa, I can understand how stressed you are about Leo's uncertain condition & his ugly bg. Sorry I am unable to give you advice on the dose but dont worry someone will come along to give you the advice.
As you've mentioned the EPI even if confirmed is treatable. And that ugly bg will come down. Dont let these bring you down! Hugs!
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

The numbers may be a result of reductions that were taken too close together. I think increasing tonight is just fine.

You may need to call around to find Rescue Remedy. There's a version that's just for pets that doesn't contain alcohol. You could ask the vet about Cerenia. It was originally developed for motion sickness and is used as an anti-nausea medication. It will have a sedating effect. I've not used it but the vet recommended it since Gabby tends to puke in the car.

One additional thought is to ask the vet about putting Leo on a longer course of metronidazole (Flagyl) to see if that helps clear up the diarrhea. I'd also couple that with the use of a probiotic (e.g., FortiFlora).
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Thanks Helen and Sienne for the recommendations. I will take them to the vet. I did find the non-alcohol version of Rescue Remedy on Amazon - they are drops and the alcohol version looks like a spray. I didn't see one that goes on the ears like Devon said - is that the drops? How do you guys use it?

We're off in a few minute. Leo is SOOOOOOOOO hungry! I told him he gets a nice big snack of CHICKEN when we get home. I'll give him about 2/3 of his normal cycle food, all LC. This will be at about +5. I don't think I should give him his whole normal serving, but perhaps some protein snax later if he's still hungry.
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Good luck with Leo's vet visit. I hope you get some answers. I know how crazy they can drive you when they are hungry and don't understand why they can't eat. I hope you can find a pet sitter soon so you don't have to keep taking Leo with you everywhere.
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

I give J.D. a squirt in the mouth (maybe a couple drops), put a drop on top of each front paw, and put some drops on the pee pad in his carrier.
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Sending good vetty vines for Leo. I hope it gives you answers.

You can also get Rescue Remedy in health food stores if you need it sooner than Amazon would deliver, look in the homeopathic section or if not there in the pet section. You can also get Feliway in a spray or a diffuser. it's a pheromone that helps to calm them.
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

We're back from the vet, and Leo was a good boy, outside of the howling on the ride there. He got the bloodwork done for the test - results in 5-7 days. It's the serum trypsin-like immunoreactivity test. It checks for EPI, and also pancreatitus and B12. So that covers the spectrum which gives us a more comprehensive look. She also took a swab in the nether regions and found "nothing swimming around in there." :smile: We like this vet.

The vet didn't have experience with Rescue Remedy but she looked up the ingredients and said it looked fine for him. I had asked if there was a "kitty xanax" and she said yes, it's called xanax! Personally, I've had xanax and it just takes the edge off without making you whacky. So we got a prescription for 1/2 of a .25 mg tablet an hour before travel. I'll do a test run this weekend. I'm not sure if the Rescue Remedy will arrive on time, so I'll try that the next trip.

Carla - I've never taken him anywhere but the vet and only 3 times so far. We have to take a trip that will be 5-6 hours, perhaps cut into 2 parts. But this will be a good trial run to see if it's possible for him to travel with me to work during the week. That's not the way I want to do this, but I know I'd be testing him more than a sitter. But I am still interviewing sitters. I guess I just want to have options, since right now, we have none.

He also got a long course of Flagyl.
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Good luck with the trip! I'm glad you got the tests done. Now waiting is the hard part. Thinking of you and sending good trip and test result vines.
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Paws crossed for good news.
Lots of new things for you to try. Hope something brings some relief.

Maybe the trip will go better than anticipated.
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Thanks to both of you. I actually feel relieved today over the stress of the last two days. Maybe because I made the decision to do the testing ($250) and also decided we'd try the drive and see how it goes. I had it in my mind I'd never commute with him, but maybe it would work. Paws crossed, nails retracted.
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

It will be interesting to see what comes back on the EPI. EPI is actually rare in cats and, if/when it does occur, tends to affect older cats. Did they do a specfPL for the pancreatitis? Normally that would be run with the cobalamine test.

With Leo's beginnings as an outdoor cat, I actually am wondering if he has a parasite.....Giardia or Coccidia. You can't tell just from a "swipe". In fact, it usually takes several stool samples to pick it up. Has she tried Panacur and/or Albon? Really smelly liquipoo is definitely associated with those little dudes!

Rescue Remedy drops....you can also rub in his ears and put some on your hands and rub it on his coat so he can lick it off. Xanax....I would NOT do. Personally and IMHO. I think Sienne's suggestion for cerenia is much better.

Thinking of you all, Lisa. Good luck with the increase. Let us know how we can help. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Hi Lisa and Leo -

I don`t have any advice, just compassion...
Don`t the rough patches just s*=*=ck?? We're going through one right now too, and sometimes it feels endless!
We send you both heaps and heaps of cat_pet_icon

We are in your corner :RAHCAT cheering for you!!

Alexa&Reuben
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Hi Marje,

The vet ordered a IDEXX GI Panel 2 with Spec fPL-Feli. She said it included all three. She's been through his poo twice before (after adoption and 6 weeks ago) and he had the Flagyl once before about 6 weeks ago. We haven't tried the other drugs. The smear was just a little free check for obvious critters that might have escaped notice before - not a definitive test she was running.

Cerenia - I read that was for nausea/vomiting. He doesn't do that in the car (as far as I know) and hasn't since we got him. Just general anxiety. He may settle into a long trip just fine, but I'd rather be prepared for him to freak out. He gets nervous sometimes. She said xanax works rather well, and several people use it for pets who freak out at thunderstorms. She said it would be smart to try it ahead of time because some animals have the reverse effect and get more agitated. She had an anxious little dog who got so nervous when company came. They gave him the xanax and then he bit a guest. Yiles! I've heard that about its use in people too. Marje - did you or someone you know have a bad experience with xanax and cats? I will go out looking for the Rescue Remedy drops tomorrow. Ann suggested health stores. Right now, the two cats are actually out, at the same time, and behaving nicely. I hate to put one of them away to go out when I could just as easily do it tomorrow (I keep them separated when not here).

Thank you for your offer to help with the dose increase. I can't WAIT to shoot him tonight. Please give mama bean a pink? He's wearing his classiest black formal wear today.

Alexa - thanks for the cheers! ::smile:: Just your note is wonderful. Chin up for your troubles too, so hugs and purrs to you as well.

Lisa and Leo
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Glad she is doing that test. Good that you fasted him.

Tobey's stool was checked numerous times for parasites and they never showed up. So the vet treated him with Panacur which is good for Giardia and it didn't do a thing. Albon is good for Coccidia. Worked like a charm.

Gracie had xanax. It was horrible.....and I gave her 1/4 the dose prescribed. She was panting, pacing, hollering. It had the opposite effect on her that it should. Because there is no telling how a kitty might react to the xanax, IMHO, the RR is the best way to go. You could also get Feliway spray and spray it on his bedding, in the car, etc.
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Hope Leo feels better & vet can help his condition..Just stopping by to support you--You are such a good momma bean! Hugs from us!
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

I'll have to remember Tobey's experience if this continues - thanks. And poor Gracie! The vet did suggest giving a half a dose to start. But like I said, I'll get both and have each in my back pocket. If I find the RR, I'm going to put him in the carrier and drive him around. Hopefully I can find it tomorrow. I think I recall hearing about Feliaway. I'll look for that too. Thanks for telling me about your experiences.

Thanks Roni and Moonie :smile:
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Good luck with the test results and the travel Lisa. At the beginning of August we took Neko to Fort Collins, Colorado - a 1400 mile drive we divided into three 8 hour days each way. Along with advice from LL, we learned a few things about long travel days with a cat.

- we have a sedan with split back seats, we left one down so Neko could access the back trunk. Her LB and wicker bed were there. She only felt comfortable using the LB when the car stopped, so make sure you do the odd rest stop as well as gas/food stops.
- keep some dishes, cold water, testing kit and LC/MC/HC close by. It was behind a front seat for us. Opened cans stayed in the same cooler as the insulin and water. I also carried karo but didn't need it. Again Neko only ate when the car was stopped, so I stopped for testing and any feeding needed. In spite of the stress of travel, Neko did dive down one day in the middle of nowhere.
- my previous experience with Neko was that she hated car travel. I put a few drops of Rescue Remedy for pets (bought at a vitamin/health store) on her food in the morning, and sprayed some Feliway spray in the car and carrier. On the third day down, I forgot about the RR and she seemed relaxed enough by then that I didn't use it in the rest of the trip.
- bring along towels/blankets she has recently used so the smell of home is in the car. We had one in the carrier. We also ended up putting pee pads on top in the carrier. We left Neko in the carrier for the first hour because we had to go through a border crossing and didn't want her escaping. But she peed in the carrier. :roll: After that we left the carrier door open for her to go in and out. Sometimes she went inside as a comforting place to sleep.
- cats will adapt to travel. Neko spent a good part of the first day trying out different places to lie down and sleep. There was some mewing for the first couple of hours, then she settled down. By the second day, we had a routine.
- make sure the places you are staying have a fridge and better yet a freezer, we had freezer packs for the cooler.
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Just saw your update post Lisa, I got my Feliway at Petsmart. Also, Neko ended up being more comfortable once she could get out of her carrier, but ECID.
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Lisa, I always got my RR liquid from a health food store.
I rubbed it on Checkers forehead, between his eyes, down his white stripe, because that's his favorite place to be touched.
I was surprised to find it really did calm him.

Thanks to this condo, I remembered to order a vial today from Amazon. Way cheaper than the HF store.

Boy, you never know how a cat will react to a med, that another cat does well on. Checks reacted to Ultram, the way Gracie did to Xanax. He had 1/4 dose....12.5 mg. It was horrible few hours.

Lisa, I hope the car ride goes well for you and Leo. :smile:
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

Hi Lisa, sending lots of good Vetty vines for Leo's tests. Also sending good trip vines. I used Rescue Remedy years ago for my feisty Siamese kitty when he had to visit the Vet. I also found it in a health/food market. It seemed to help calm him. Thanks for visiting us earlier. I
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501 no AM injection - vet

I'm glad to hear that things went well at the vet's office. I guess now it's a waiting game.

(That +8 can't be accurate!!!)
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501no shot - vet +5 554 PMPS376

Hi Wendy, Barb and Ann - thanks for the info for traveling. It's going to help a LOT! I started to make a list of what I would need, and Wendy - you started it for me!

Sienne, what, your meter doesn't go that high? ;-)

(Just frustrated at his values in the stratosphere! Ok, I'll take it down :mrgreen: )
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501no shot - vet +5 554 PMPS376

Just stopping in to send lots of positive vetty/test/travel vines to you and Leo! I just read his profile...he is such a lucky kitty to have found you!!!

(I've been at Animerge with my civvie, Mario, when he swallowed dental floss back in '01. Small world!!)
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501no shot - vet +5 554 PMPS376

Hi Lisa & Leo,
Dropping by to wish you good luck with all Leo's issues and also wishing you a good trip. Here's an essay by Patti (Merlin) on traveling/camping with a diabetic cat. She made it into a Google Doc and it has some excellent tips.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gMwbpx3Lnrq5KDiKk0lhyQIRZylEmhztYhxZCpNcDqM/edit

We do a lot of traveling (6 hour trip) with Rusty (and Stu before him). Rusty tends to get nervous carsickness during the first 5 minutes of a trip, but then is fine. We use newspaper to line the back of the station wagon and simply tear off the part that gets soiled. MUch easier than using plastic or cloth. Rusty rides free, litterbox in the back, the carrier door open if he wants to go in to sleep (he usually does). We offer food at rest stops, but he doesn't eat (Stu always ate). We have a little cooler that we carry the food and insulin in.

If you are giving a flagyl, make sure that you also give a probiotic. My DH had to take flagyl, did not eat yogurt with live cultures, and wound up throwing his electrolytes out of whack. Also a tip on giardia: my DH had it for a whole year a number of years ago. He had all sorts of tests and all were negative for giardia. But in the end it was found that he did indeed have giardia. It's a nasty, nasty bug. We later found out that there is a medicine they give to horses that cures it in humans too. Sorry, I don't know the name of it, but you might ask your vet.

Best of luck,

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501no shot - vet +5 554 PMPS376

Max and I are rooting for you. I know this is very hard for you, and I hope you get through it without getting too many green hairs on your head. Good luck!
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501no shot - vet +5 554 PMPS376

HI Amy - Thanks for the vines - funny you just read his Bio - I just wrote the essay part of it yesterday afternoon! We are also lucky to have him, despite all this. We had just fallen in love with him through the screen door, and he just stared at us wanting to come in...so it was a match. We've had really nice luck with Animerge. There are also a few specialists we see there for "regular" appointments. Good place (and small world!)

Ella - thanks for more great travel advice to add to Wendy's. Unfortunately in NJ, animals are required to wear seat belts. Really. When my cats go to the vet, the carrier goes in the front seat and I belt in the entire carrier. I'd like to give him freedom in the car, but I have a sedan and would be nervous, at least in the beginning, to know how he will behave. So I will figure out a litterbox configuration (I found disposable litterboxes at the store yesterday - they are a thinner plastic pan with litter already in it! I got one to try out.

Interesting tip on the Flagyl. I'll call the vet and ask. He was on it before but we'd have had no way of knowing what it did to his electrolytes. Thanks for chiming in!

Dale and Max - thanks for thinking of us. I'll be thinking about everyone's good vines when we hit the road.

I'm heading to the pet store and the health food store today to stock up!

Lisa
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501no shot/vet +5 554 PMPS 376 +1 411 +5

I use only a hard carrier in the front seat because of the air bags, and I hope it would hold up if they should deploy.
In the back seat as long as I'm sitting beside him (like on the way to the airport), I'll use his soft sided airline approved carrier. Always seat belted in. If your cat is free and you have to stop short or brake real hard the cat could go flying. I just think it's safer. I will let Ginger ride free in the car, when we're just going around the corner, but for long rides, I prefer using the strapped in carriers, with breaks to get out if they want (with all car doors and windows closed completely) to stretch their legs, use the litter box, and eat if they will. My hard carriers have these little plastic cups that hook onto the metal grated doors, and J.D. actually ate along the way this last trip to Pittsburgh PA in August.
My cats also wear harnesses and leashes the entire trip.

A story about windows. I had a cat named Buddy, who was a great and friendly and loving loving cat, who hated car rides. I was taking him to the vet in my pickup truck, and didn't have a carrier but a sturdy box. He broke out of the box like a wild animal. My driver's side window was down maybe 2 1/2 inches, and all of a sudden, I was driving along in traffic at 35 miles an hour holding onto Buddy's tail while his entire body was hanging out the outside of the window. We got to the vet and he was fine and relaxed, and happy. We go to hed back to the truck afterwards, and OMG, I had to fight him like crazy to get him back in. Moral of the story is they can get out of small window openings.

I highly highly encourage you to get him micro-chipped before you go, if he isn't already, and to have a collar on all the time with your cell phone number on his tag. I also add about 4 more bells to each cats collar. I have had to find cats that were hiding in unfamiliar places before and listening for those little tinkeling bells can really help.

I would also find the nearest vet and 24 hour vet in the area you're going to, and print out the directions to them for just in case in the middle of the night, when you might be scared and don't know the area as well as you do at home.

Am I over protective, maybe, but I do the best I think I possibly can.
 
Re: 9/14 Leo AMPS 501no shot/vet +5 554 PMPS 376 +1 411 +5

Ahhh Dyana - more great information (furiously writing more stuff down).

Scary story on the 2 1/2 open window - I bet that was a healthy freakout. Wow. Leo manages to shove himself under a couch that has about a 3 inch clearance and getting him out is a real chore. I hadn't thought of the harness the entire trip, but that makes sense. He's getting one today. He is also chipped, but I had JUST gotten a new tag for him before he was DX'd. I want to get a new one that mentions insulin dependent on it. He has 1 bell to warn his sister. I'll get a few more. Petsmart has a package of three bells.

24 hour vet with directions - brilliant. I would not have thought of that. Another item on my To Do list! (Today's list is REALLY long!)

You are not over-protective, at least to me. I like to be *really* prepared for anything. DH and I are scuba divers and we end up diving in some really remote areas, so we bring full medical kits and all sorts of extras JIC. And 1000 tie wraps and ziplocks, two of the greatest gifts known to man, outside of duct tape. :smile:
 
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