8/7 Bobby +23 70 + 27 291 + 29 261 Dose HELP?

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jucova30

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Ok, this is or second day with Lantus, and I see the numbers going low very fast, I am new to this word of the insulin so please any help will be appreciated.
this is the data for 8/6

AMPS 243 (Alphatrack at the vet) 1 unit
+ 4 253 ( Alphatrack at the vet)
+ 8 283 ( Alphatrack at the vet)
PMPS 217 (Alphatrack at the vet) .50 unit
+ 5 112 (Relion testing at home)

today 8/7
AMPS 112 (Relion Confirm at home)

Is almost time of his morning shot and I don't know if I should give the shot not, vet office open in a 2 h to call, what to do? :?: :?:
 
Re: Need Help! shot or not Bobby AMPS 112 8/7

Hello! The protocol for TR Lantus is if you are a newly diagnosed kitty, not shot under 200! Better safe and not give insulin til you have enough data. That is my opinion. I am not an expert, but thats what I would do if it were mine.
 
Re: Need Help! shot or not Bobby AMPS 112 8/7

Thank you Laura&Chichi! that is what I thought. Do you know how often should I check BG? , and when to start the shots again?
 
Re: Need Help! shot or not Bobby AMPS 112 8/7

If it were me, I would check at least every hour with that low number.. they can drop fast. Hopefully you have some high carb food like fancy feast gravy lovers, or some kind of food with gravy, to give in small amounts if she does drop alot more. If you need help, just put the 911 icon on your first post, and there will be others to advise you. I have to leave for work, but didnt want you to shoot that low number, since you are really new to Lantus.

Edit- if you test and see him rising up in numbers, with no shot, he should be ok til you can get more advice.
 
Re: Need Help! shot or not Bobby AMPS 112 8/7

Also, I assume that #s was before feeding, so if so, go ahead and feed, since you dont want him to continue to drop which he might without food.
 
Re: Need Help! shoot or not Bobby AMPS 112 8/7

Thank you! for your advice, right now he ate and is sleeping very comfortable. I'll check him soon. It seems like he stayed in that number the whole night.
I am a nervous wreck right now.
 
Re: Need Help! shoot or not Bobby AMPS 112 8/7

I also agree with not shooting this morning, since you don't have the data yet to shoot such a low number.

I haven't been on the boards as much as usual lately, so I'm missing Bobby's history...is he newly diagnosed? Was he on another insulin before Lantus, or did you just start insulin in general yesterday?

Great job with testing! Has anyone told you about the spreadsheet we use here, so that everyone can see how Bobby is responding to insulin? The spreadsheet is a vital tool for us to help you.

There is a possibility that Bobby did go lower than that 112 at +5 last night. although I would be inclined to guess he didn't go dangerously low. One thing about insulin, even Lantus, is that every kitty responds differently....some have big highs and lows (we call that bouncing), some are pretty flat and even-keeled, some nadir early in the cycle, some nadir late in the cycle, and any of them can change the time they nadir at any given notice.

Since you didn't give Bobby any insulin this morning, there is no need to worry about him going hypo...he will be safe today! His BGs may or may not skyrocket by this evening; it will be interesting to see what he does.

Also, since you didn't shoot today, you can change the subject line in your first post to say "AMBG" (AM blood glucose) as opposed to "AMPS" (AM pre-shot).

The sugar dance is definitely stressful, especially at first, but we're to help you get comfortable with all aspects of it, so please ask as many questions as you need!
 
Re: 8/7 Need Help! shoot or not Bobby AMPS 112

Thank you Amy, Yes Bobby is a newly diagnosed, here some of what I put in our other post
jucova30 » Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:06 pm

Hi, our boy Bobby Brown (AKA Bobby B) has just been diagnosed with diabetes on 7/23/14. He was acting very lethargy, sleeping all the time and waking up only to eat and go to potty.
Last week we took to the vet and they did a full blood test, and results came back with a BG of 480, according with the Vet everything else looks OK. At the time of the diagnoses, Bobby was on a prescription dry/food ( Urinary SO) for almost 8 years.
After many tries we finally were able to get him to eat wet food ( It was really hard to make him eat wet food), right now he is in Wellness kitten formula 80% of the time and dry food from Blue Buffalo at night, I am feeding him every 2 hours on the clock during the day. We have started to see some difference now and he is more aware when he is awake; he is playing, jumping and acting mischievous, like normal cats.
Now the scary part comes, Bobby will start his insulin treatment (Lantus 1u x2 a day) this Monday at the vet office, next day will continue at home, vet also wants me to test and monitor him at home and try to avoid bringing him to the office, so his BG does not get to elevated.

by jucova30 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:13 am

Thank you for all the great advice! to everyone in this wonderful group, we got so much information that is getting harder to digest.
This is where we are now. Since yesterday Bobby is in a 100% wet diet ( wellness kitten formula), before he was for 10 days in a 90% wet diet (kibbles at night).
Today 8/6/14 is his first day in the Lantus 1 unit x 2times. When he was diagnosed with Diabetes on 7/23/14 his BG was 460, On 7/25 I changed his diet to mostly wet, then I did a BG test on 8/4/14 and BG was 282. Today 8/6 (24 hours of complete wet diet) BG was 232 at 6:40 am. (at home Relion Confirm)
7:10 vet office BG 243 (alphatrak ) they gave him 1 unit of Lantus. (I am scared )
11:20 vet office BG 253 (alphatrak)
Questions?
Since his BG dropped so much in 2 weeks duet to change of diet and he keeps dropping now that he is in a 100% wet diet. Should I started him with .50 unit and from there if he needed increase to 1 unit ?
I think I will ask the Vet. if we should give him .50 for his next shot, I am so nervous right now. what should I be looking for so his numbers don't get to low?
I hope this make sense, any advice will be greatly appreciated!


Yesterday 8/6/ for his last shot the vet reduced to .50 unit, because he was improving so much with diet.
Today I was able to test BG early, but now we failed many times, we are taking a small break to try again latter ( I think is because I am so nervous right now)
As now I am filling up the spreadsheet, now I have to figure out how to attach to my signature
 
Re: 8/7 Need Help! shoot or not Bobby AMBG 112

I haven't welcomed you to FDMB yet - welcome! I'm sorry you have to be here, but I'm glad you found the site. The individuals at FDMB are wonderful - they helped us get Jersey into remission.

I hope this will help you with the spreadsheet:

First copy the web address that appears in the address bar on your spreadsheet. Come back to FDMB and click on “User Control Panel” at the top left-hand side of the page. Then click on the tab that says “Profile” Next, click on the tab that says “Edit Signature.” There’s a little “url” button at the top of the box where you write. Click on it. This is what will show up in the box:



Click in between the middle brackets and paste the web address for the spreadsheet that you created.

In the end, it will look something like this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...know, and we'll be happy to help you! Shelly
Click to expand...
 
Re: 8/7 Need Help! shoot or not Bobby AMBG 112

Thanks for all the info. It sounds like Bobby is responding extremely well to the food change!!
 
Re: 8/7 Need Help! shoot or not Bobby AMBG 112

Thank you Shelly, I will definitely need some help in this, I just checked his BG and he is +3 112
 
Re: 8/7 Need Help! shoot or not Bobby AMBG 112

Hi and welcome to you and Bobby. What's your name? Since lantus is a depot drug and builds up I would continue to check an hour from your last test and see if his BG is rising. The food switch is really helping which is a good thing. Some go into remission on food alone.

Elise
 
Re: 8/7 Need Help! shoot or not Bobby AMBG 112

HI guys .. no dosing advice from me, but we wanted to stop in and welcome you to LantusLand! Glad others were around to help guide you through these first scary numbers .. have a great day guys!
 
Re: 8/7 Need Help! shoot or not Bobby AMBG 112

Hi - it was a good choice to skip the insulin this morning. sometimes newly diagnosed kitties just need a change to low carb food and a short course of insulin to get their pancreas back on track and healing.

would you check his blood sugar about an hour before you want to shoot tonight, then edit the subject line of the first post of this thread and say something like

8/7 Bobby +23 ### dose help?

that'll make it appear on the main page so you get seen, and we can help you figure out what to do next. Putting in his BG # where i put ## will let us know that he's gone 23 hrs since his last shot. You'll probably want to reduce the dose, perhaps to 0.5u, depending on the numbers. Let's see what he does today without a shot.
 
Re: 8/7 Need Help! shoot or not Bobby AMBG 112

Thank you so very much to all of you nice people who have guided me, I don't know were Bobby would be by now if I had given the morning shot to him. I can rest a bit for now.
I have been awake since 1 am either feeding him (we went back every 2 hours small meals, we were at every 4 hours schedule)he is asking for food but eating very little, I notice he was nauseated this morning (stinking out his tongue and moving his mouth) but still eating and also yesterday afternoon he had diarrhea (very bad and smelly) he never had diarrhea before, could be this the Lantus? We are having hard time testing him now (I failed so many times) and he is getting tired and his ears are red. this is what his numbers look today:
AMBG 112
+ 3 112

Thank you for all the welcomes to the forum, I wish non of us have to be in this situation, but we love our babies and we have to do the best for them.
we will try again to see if we are more lucky with the BG test.
Thank you
Judy (Mom)
Carl (Daddy)
Bobby B (Kitty)
 
Re: 8/7 Need Help! shoot or not Bobby AMBG 112

Hi there and welcome :cool:

You can give his ears a rest today since you did not give insulin this morning.

I would call the vet and let him/her know about the nausea and diarrhea and lack of appetite.

I strongly recommend you test his urine for the presence of ketones. You will need Ketostix which you can purchase at CVS, Walgreens ets. (call first to make sure they have them in stock) I would get them today.

Please read about ketoacidosis it's very important information.

Hang in there and hang in here. It's the very best place for a sugar kitty to be.
 
8/7 Bobby +23 70 dose help?

Bobby's BG + 23 70
I don't know if have should be happy or start freaking out.
This is so far what we have for him since yesterday 8/6/ (first day in Lantus)
8/6/
AMPS 243 (Alpha track at the vet) 1 unit
+ 4 253 ( Alpha track at the vet)
+ 8 283 ( Alpha track at the vet)
PMPS 217 (Alpha track at the vet) .50 unit
+ 5 112 (Reli on testing at home)

today 8/7
+ 11.5 112 (Reli on Confirm at home) not shot
+ 14 112
+ 23 70

He is acting very happy and he had regular potty ( no poop yet). He is asking for food and cleaning himself.
Don't now what to do to be prepared in case his BG drops lower.
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 HELP?

Hello again! Im sure someone will chime in soon to advise, but again, I would not shoot if he is under 200 at pmps, which I highly doubt he will be. Without insulin today, he should be ok. Im replying to bump this up
Edit, you should probably go ahead and feed ..
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 HELP?

Thank you Laura, I will not shoot tonight either, Is he still in risk of hypoglycemia? He is eating now every 2 hours around the clock,
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 HELP?

I agree with Laura - no shot tonight unless he zooms over 200 by preshot time.

You asked about diarrhea, that can be caused by the food change. You could get some probiotic like Fortiflorab to help with the transition.
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 HELP?

If yesterday was his first day on insulin, and he only got 1u am and .5u pm and nothing since then, I dont think he can hypo. There hasnt been time enough or insulin enough to build up a depot. I hope he is one of the lucky kitties who just needs diet change to go off insulin.. good luck.
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 HELP?

You might want to test him in an hour, to make sure he's not still dropping. Remember that over 40 is still normal cat BG, we just like them over 50 because that leaves no room for error with insulin still in the system. At 24 hors you should be OK.
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 HELP?

I just place an order from Amazon for the fortiflora, Keto-Diastix, and some of PureBites Chicken. He did not have diarrhea today, and his appetite is good now. I am scare of this low numbers and don't know what to expect
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 HELP?

I think there is a very good chance that the diet change is all he will need. I'm not a dosing expert so I don't know what they will suggest but I know that newbies are told not to shoot under 200 until there is more data. You have a normal BG and are new so I'm hoping the food change has worked magic. Hang tight until you hear from Wendy, Julie, or Marje. Since Bobby hasn't received insulin he is very safe.
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 HELP?

You only need to be scared of him going low when he has had a dose of insulin within 12 hours, so right now you don't need to worry about that, you're only keeping track of his BG to try to help get a handle on what's going on in him.

I'm no expert either, but this sounds a lot like what happened with my cat, Mona when we switched to all wet food. She had already been on Lantus for a while, but she dropped her numbers like a ROCK when we cut out the dry food. The dry food was what was essentially causing the problem and once that was gone, her blood glucose stabilized very quickly.

I would continue to track the numbers for a bit and would definitely not even consider giving insulin at this point if it were my cat. I'd just watch and keep track of all the numbers so that people here could advise on what to do as a next step.

Hopefully he will have a very, very short flirt with Lantus!
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 HELP?

Thank you for letting me know that he will be ok, now I can take a deep breath and try to relax. We will take his BG as soon as we can (his poor ears are red and swollen).

He seems very hungry, but he didn't eat too much during the day he is caching up now. so what should I do next, just check BG?
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 HELP?

I would try to get in a test before feeding him a bit, but I also wouldn't sweat it if the feeding came first. Just try to jot down when you do what so the numbers make as much sense as possible.
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 HELP?

If he were my cat, I'd let him relax. You relax too. Since he doesn't need any insulin tonight, I would maybe get one more test before bed. He is in a very good place.
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 HELP?

He ate 30 minutes ago, and we just test and BG is + 27 291 should I shoot for tonight or wait till tomorrow? and how much should be the dose?
Thanks
Judy & Carl
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 HELP?

Hi there :cool:

How is his appetite? When using insulin you must be confident that your kitty will eat if he experiences a BG drop that requires intervention with food.
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 + 27 291 Dose HELP?

Hi Sandy, His appetite is back, asking for food every hour, now I can see why, his BG is elevated again. :sad:
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 + 27 291 Dose HELP?

Glad to hear he is eating again.

The lack of data combined with the change in diet as well as todays lack of appetite makes me question if 0.5u may be too much.
You might consider 0.25u for tonight and see how he does. it's up to you.
See what others here think as well.

Make sure you have plenty of test strips and high carb (HC) food in the range of 20% in case you need it.

Also consider the time. If you shoot now, the next shot will be in 12 hours. Will your work schedules be able to accommodate the new times?
edited to add - Since the 291 reading is 30 mins after he ate, keep in mind it is a food influenced number.
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 + 27 291 Dose HELP?

If I shoot now, I wont be able to keep in this schedule, I am trying to accommodate an schedule (for feeding and Shots) that I will be able to keep next week when I go back to work.
What should I be expecting for tomorrow morning dose?, How can I get to .25 when the smaller number in the syringe is .50?
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 + 27 291 Dose HELP?

It's also important for you to go ahead and get a spreadsheet going to keep track of Bobby's numbers.

When we give advice, we really need to see how each dose has been doing before advising you on dose. I know you're still new, but the sooner you get it going, the better. Here's How to get your spreadsheet

If you need help with it, just let us know. Someone else can set it up for you and then turn it back over to you to continue filling out. It's very easy to use..once it's working, you just have to enter the numbers as you get them
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 + 27 291 Dose HELP?

One option would be to shoot 1hour 30 mins earlier than your preferred time in the morning.
then over the next 3 days shoot each cycle 15min late or shoot 30 mins late every 24 hours. That would bring you to schedule by Monday AM.

If you will not be shooting tonight, it's a great opportunity to get some data. Please get a test at about 2.5 hours from his last meal (don't feed prior).
The results will be very valuable information. If his BG goes down without insulin that will help guide your dosing/shooting decision.

Better a day too high than an hour too low. :cool:
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 + 27 291 Dose HELP?

Thank you Chris for all the info, and yes I need help with the spreadsheet, I was able to saved in my computer but I need to figure out how to put online. any help with it will be appreciated.
& Sandy, thank you for the advice of testing after 2.5 h of last meal, I'll do it, it will be in 30 minutes.
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 + 27 291 Dose HELP?

I find it really strange that he was still at 70 at 23 hrs after his last shot and 4 hours later he was almost 300. Its possible but I would love to see another test to confirm that last test.

I agree with sandy that it might be a good idea to drop to 0.25u if he is really about 300. If you shoot now his next shot is due in 12 hrs. Sometimes when you are way off its easier to skip the shot and maybe shoot early tomorrow morning.
 
Re: 8/7 Bobby +23 70 + 27 291 Dose HELP?

If it's our spreadsheet, it should show up when you go to https://drive.google.com/#my-drive

If it's listed there, just click on it to open it. Up on the top right is a blue "Share" button. If you click on it, a little pop up comes up and under "Who has access" make sure it's set at "Anyone with the link"

Along the top of that same little pop up will be the link that you need to put into your posts here. You just "copy" it, click on the URL tab and then "paste" it. It'll look like this: Your Link Here[url] Let me know if... (on Google) we'll have to get you one set up
 
Just finish with testing and BG is + 29 261
Almost finishing with spreadsheet. don't know what to do for next Dose.
 
Sandy and I both think you could try the 0.25u dose in the morning. I am assuming you are able to monitor tomorrow.

Post in the morning if you want help making a decision then. I wouldn't shoot less than 150.

When you do shoot it would be a good idea to check 1 and 2 hours after the next shot.
 
Great.

Skip if the blood sugar is 150 or less, or if it is in that range and you want to shoot, post here andmake sure someone is avail to help you.

Then if you shoot, get a test at +1 and +2 so you don't have any surprises.
 
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