8-27-20 New member and feeling overwhelmed

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I agree pretty much with what your vet says, as I already outlined in my first reply to your opening post on this thread. I just wonder whether there will be enough carbs in the Purina DM wet food to enable Olive to receive insulin safely at the moment. If she doesn't stabilise on the DM wet food very quickly I suggest you consider feeding a medium carb diet, preferably a calorie-dense food or plenty of a 'regular calorie' food to hopefully enable insulin to be administered safely and Olive to regain weight faster.

If Olive regains the weight it may make her diabetes more stable. You could always revisit diet choices then.

Please remember to test Olive daily for ketones.

Well done with the testing today, Robyn. I hope you get a good night's rest.


Mogs
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So I’m going to offer another analysis. She was clearly started on too much insulin.she was eating dry and carbs before diagnosed. I think the diet change has had a huge impact. Perhaps continuing on Raw with maybe .25 will be her starting dose. There are raw foods with more carbs if that’s what you feel is needed. I just wonder if she has a pancreas trying to work and just needs a tiny amount of insulin support and she may just go OTJ and be diet controlled.
 
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Maybe shop around different raw foods. I fed ones that varied between 3-5% carbs, depending on the protein. For example, kangaroo is a higher carb meat, though still lean. Nature's Variety raw are all 3% carbs. Your vet is right that some cats do better with some carbs vs no carbs.

For even higher carb dehydrated raw, Honest Kitchen makes Prowl and Grace. They are higher carb because there is potato in the mix. One is medium carb, one is high carb. I can't remember which is which, they were in the old version of Dr. Lisa's list but not the new one. I vaguely recall the turkey one is the medium carb, but don't quote me.

We had one kitty on the Lantus forum recently who tanked even on 0.1 units of insulin.
Critter Mom said:
Thanks, Wendy. How much time for honey? And the gravy from a med or high carb food?
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Honey could be faster, medium and high carb that 20-30 minutes - depending on the cat.
 
Wow, tanked on 0. 1 unit. Geez. Been a long day so headed to bed. I got in one final test before I do. PMPS +3 216 at midnight. So I feel safe going to sleep. I'll make the corrections to the spread sheet tomorrow. As to going on a higher carb food, I'd appreciate any help in trying to find some alternatives to satisfy our need to keep Olive on a raw diet or closer to it versus going to the DM. I read the ingredient list and quite frankly it is filled with junk. I know the vet said cats thrive on it, but I don't understand how. As long as I can offer her something to try in its place she'd be ok with it. The more I think about it, I do believe Olive needs a bit more carbs than she's currently getting at 0.04% due to the fact she had only known high carbs. I think we shocked her system going raw so quickly. I feel horrible about that. I'll research those foods you mentioned but Im open to any help out there. I'm off to bed. Until tomorrow.
 
So, I have a question about all of this. Usually, when we talk about bounces, we say that they can last "up to six cycles". I'd assumed yesterday that Olive had been bouncing from a low during her 3am insulin shot a few days earlier and then just happened to break that bounce yesterday, coinciding with yesterday's shot.

But the best candidate for the low was on 8/23 (pretty far removed from her 3am shot the night of 8/21, but not impossible with a depot?), and then there were nine cycles of high numbers following that.

So, does that mean that it's not entirely bouncing that we're seeing with those high numbers? Or that her pancreas is sputtering up to provide some endogenous insulin lows (the blue on 8/25) to start a new bounce? (@tiffmaxee, that seems to be what you're suggesting)

In any case, Robyn, you certainly shouldn't blame yourself for the raw switch-- that was a good thing for Olive and your other cat(s)! If you hadn't done that, you'd probably just be seeing high numbers all the time and frustratingly little progress. If the raw has given her pancreas a break from processing carbs and allowed it to start doing some healing, that's a good thing!
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
Wow I wish Robyns vet could read this dialogue, Its fascinating!
WELL DONE everyone BRAVO
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@nanandamber That is exactly what I think might be happening. I saw this with a few others recently sometimes with diet changes, sometimes when stopping steroids. They were given too much insulin to start and the highs and lows kept on coming. It will be interesting to see what happens here.
 
Have you ever considered making your own food? One of our members discovered that EZ Complete which is a supplement that you add to ground raw meat you buy at the grocery store has some carbs in it. For her cat it raised the BG but it’s the first one that I’ve heard where this happens as it’s low carb.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Have you ever considered making your own food? One of our members discovered that EZ Complete which is a supplement that you add to ground raw meat you buy at the grocery store has some carbs in it. For her cat it raised the BG but it’s the first one that I’ve heard where this happens as it’s low carb.
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If you're asking me...Yes I have but our temperatures here I just dont trust raw if I had AC I might rethink it. This house averages between 90 and 105 in the summer. I have Zoes bowl sitting in a pan of water and add ice to the pan, that ice melts immediately.
 
@jt and trouble (GA) Sorry. I meant to respond to Nan. I hit yours instead. Reallly meant for Robyn. BTW, how are things this morning?

Here’s the supplement EZ Complete.
https://www.foodfurlife.com/ezcomplete-fur-cats-premix-information.html#/

Susan Thixton has a food list she puts out every year with foods that have U.S. supplements and human grade protein. You could get her list and then look on line or call for info on their food. Also, which primal proteins were you feeding? Some have a lower protein content than others. Thixton’s site is Truth About Food.
 
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tiffmaxee said:
I’m in So Cal. Hot here but 10-20 less than where you are! I don’t know how you stand that heat. I’ve become more and more heat sensitive in my old age.
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Ive lived in this house since 1980...desert rat there. (Dont know why
I thought you were in the UK lmao) Our low last night was 89 and I had to add blankets to the bed!
 
Good day all. I haven't had a chance to read any of the posts since last night but wanted to jump on here to tell you I'll be back in a few hours to update. Wanted you to know Olive did well through the night and I had to offer a quarter unit an hour late an hour ago. Be back then.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I literally can't imagine! (in the winter, I have my thermostat at 62 at night, and feel a bit guilty about having it that high!)
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In our younger we can take it days, we turned the thermostat down to 55 at night during the winter. Not anymore. 62 at night, 66 during the day (with many "discussions" about turning the heat up a notch). We have an old house with leaky windows. We wear a lot of clothes.
 
Click on Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)

Near the top righthand corner, you should see a blue box that says Post New Thread. Click.
 
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