8/24 Garland PMPS 395 +1 418 +2 418 +3 425 +4 349 +5 308

Status
Not open for further replies.
Violet and Garland

Violet and Garland

Member Since 2011
Garland is a DKA kitty recovering from FHL, e tube feedings Yesterday

So we did the R last night. I fed her at 1230am after her last BS test. Then I went to bed. Woke up at 6am tested her (183) , gave her meds and fed her (around 630). Its now 730am and her shot is due in 30 minutes. Im going to test her right before to see the new number... But because of the 183 I got an hour ago, do you still want me to do .25 R? Shes doing great right now. No vomiting. Just snoozing. Im also going to try to fit in a couple "mini" feeds today for extra calories
 
Re: +10 183 /// 8/24 Garland AMPS (?)

Sandy and Black Kitty said:
Beautiful!

OK , so tomorrow morning, provided Garlands PS is over 300, give her 0.25 R again, following her Lantus shot and get your +1 +2 +3.
Click to expand...

When you get your +12 we can see what is needed at PS time. DO NOT give 0.25 of R unless she is over 300, as Sandy suggested. It looks like the 0.25 really did something for Garland!

Are you able to monitor during the day today?
 
Re: +10 183 /// 8/24 Garland AMPS (?)

I'm sure Sandy or Libby will be checking in. My guess is that if Garland's pre-shot is below 300, you should not give the R.

Violet, I know you said you're going to try to work in another feeding. I'm wondering if it would be easier to give Garland a tablespoon of Clinicare (followed by 6 ml of water to flush the tube) a couple of times per day. Whichever way is easier will work. Basically, the goal is to get another 100 calories of food into Garland. The food/Clinicare combo you're mixing up is about 30 calories per 30 cc. The Clinicare is 16 cal. per tablespoon. I just want you to have the numbers so you can figure out how to best work this into your feeding schedule for Garland.
 
Re: +10 183 /// 8/24 Garland AMPS (?)

Violet - if you want to pm me your city I will make calls today to find the cheapest source of ondansetron and see if they will deliver to you. This will take one thing off your plate.

I agree with Sienne about getting clinicare into her at additional times other than mixed with the food for extra calories. An hour or an hour and a half after feeding try and get some warmed up clinicare into her followed by a six ml pure water flush.
 
Re: +10 183 /// 8/24 Garland AMPS (?)

Libby and Lucy said:
Sandy and Black Kitty said:
Beautiful!

OK , so tomorrow morning, provided Garlands PS is over 300, give her 0.25 R again, following her Lantus shot and get your +1 +2 +3.
Click to expand...

When you get your +12 we can see what is needed at PS time. DO NOT give 0.25 of R unless she is over 300, as Sandy suggested. It looks like the 0.25 really did something for Garland!

Are you able to monitor during the day today?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reminder!! I totally forgot about that. ( i wouldn't have given it without talking to you guys first though)
 
Re: +10 183 /// 8/24 Garland AMPS (?)

Sienne and Gabby said:
I'm sure Sandy or Libby will be checking in. My guess is that if Garland's pre-shot is below 300, you should not give the R.

Violet, I know you said you're going to try to work in another feeding. I'm wondering if it would be easier to give Garland a tablespoon of Clinicare (followed by 6 ml of water to flush the tube) a couple of times per day. Whichever way is easier will work. Basically, the goal is to get another 100 calories of food into Garland. The food/Clinicare combo you're mixing up is about 30 calories per 30 cc. The Clinicare is 16 cal. per tablespoon. I just want you to have the numbers so you can figure out how to best work this into your feeding schedule for Garland.
Click to expand...
Yea, I can try that. You think thats better than extra recovery?

Ps-- Where do I buy more food. Im on my last can of clinicare and have about 6 cans of recovery left... the vet?
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193

Just wanted to say hello! I have no experience with R, but am confident that you will get some good advice soon from those who do. Great numbers for Garland! Have a wonderful Wednesday!
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193

More support here. We've been watching, thinking good thoughts for Garland and you, and staying out of the way! Keep up the good work.

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193

Amazon stocks Clinicare. Here's the link.

If you need more Recovery, PetFood Direct sells it. This stuff is expensive! I wonder if there's any other food that would be as good and would be cheaper.

I would check the prices from your vet vs. on-line. You could always get a few cans from the vet to tide you over and order more on-line. With food, you have to order by the case. I think with the Clinicare, you can order by the can.
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193

How many pills do you guys think I need of this anti nausea med? You say I need to split into 4ths right(1 pill is 4mg) He wrote the Rx for 15 pills. Surely I dont need that many, right?

Thanks for the food info. When the kids are napping I will do some research on it
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193

Drop Karrie a PM. She is very knowledgeable about these meds. Given that she is willing to make calls to find the best price for you, that's a great resource. Remember to give her the names of local hospitals that have an outpatient pharmacy as well as if there's a Costco or Sam's Club in your area.
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193

Sienne and Gabby said:
Drop Karrie a PM. She is very knowledgeable about these meds. Given that she is willing to make calls to find the best price for you, that's a great resource. Remember to give her the names of local hospitals that have an outpatient pharmacy as well as if there's a Costco or Sam's Club in your area.
Click to expand...

How many do you think I need? 5? 10? 15?
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193

Well well - looking blue around here this morning! Very nice! Amazing what a little R can do.
Violet and Garland said:
Libby and Lucy said:
Sandy and Black Kitty said:
Beautiful!

OK , so tomorrow morning, provided Garlands PS is over 300, give her 0.25 R again, following her Lantus shot and get your +1 +2 +3.
Click to expand...

When you get your +12 we can see what is needed at PS time. DO NOT give 0.25 of R unless she is over 300, as Sandy suggested. It looks like the 0.25 really did something for Garland!

Are you able to monitor during the day today?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reminder!! I totally forgot about that. ( i wouldn't have given it without talking to you guys first though)
Click to expand...
Another good habit to get into (I know, one more thing to remember!) is to check the previous days condo for any important info that may have been posted. Since we are dumping so much important info on you, a quick review would be a good idea. Also, it's possible that there could be new information form a nigiht owl. I had a serious nghht owl helping us with BK and so I always checked the previous days condo for new messages when I logged on each morning.
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183

Hi guys .. no advice on dosing this morning from me, but lots of smiles looking at garland all decked out in blue this morning! I hope these beautiful numbers continue for you guys .. have a great day!
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183

Just stopping in to offer support great numbers this morning and sending lots more healing vines for Garland today :mrgreen:
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183

Violet,

Are you able to handle the cost of the Clinicare for now? I would be glad to do some research on some alternate foods if that would help you - just a tiny search leads me to believe there are other options that could work just as well. Since you're down to the last can, why don't you get a few from your doctor and if you so, I will start looking around.
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183

At the vets myself. The dose garland needs is 1mg NOT 4mg try and get4mg pills from a pharmacy and quarter.
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183

Karrie and Maverick said:
At the vets myself. The dose garland needs is 1mg NOT 4mg try and get4mg pills from a pharmacy and quarter.
Click to expand...
I dropped it off this morning. I cant remember what the paper said... Ill go back and look at a previous condo

EDIT- Since the Rx was for 4mg pills, thats what they should give me right? Is it hard to break them into 4ths? And how many should I get?
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183

Jessica & Boo Radley said:
Violet,

Are you able to handle the cost of the Clinicare for now? I would be glad to do some research on some alternate foods if that would help you - just a tiny search leads me to believe there are other options that could work just as well. Since you're down to the last can, why don't you get a few from your doctor and if you so, I will start looking around.
Click to expand...
Yea, ill probably be getting more clinicare today or tomorrow
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183

Violet, you are doing a magnificent Job!! Remember to breathe and know that there are many people praying and sending healing vibes to you and Garland! Go Garland!! dancing_cat dancing_cat dancing_cat cat_pet_icon
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183

Postby Violet and Garland » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:45 am
How many pills do you guys think I need of this anti nausea med? You say I need to split into 4ths right(1 pill is 16mg) He wrote the Rx for 15 pills. Surely I dont need that many, right?

Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183
postby Karrie and Maverick » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:20 am
At the vets myself. The dose garland needs is 1mg NOT 4mg try and get4mg pills from a pharmacy and quarter.

Violet,
What is the anti nausea mediation you were prescribed? At 16 mg tablets, it sounds like Cerenia. Karrie's reference to 4 mg tablets sounds like Ondansetron (Zofran). While I have not been following the specifics of the nausea and/or anti-emetic meds you have been discussing, and have been prescribed, I just want to make sure that everyone is on the same page when dosing of medications is discussed.
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183

Linda and Bear Man said:
Postby Violet and Garland » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:45 am
How many pills do you guys think I need of this anti nausea med? You say I need to split into 4ths right(1 pill is 16mg) He wrote the Rx for 15 pills. Surely I dont need that many, right?

Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183
postby Karrie and Maverick » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:20 am
At the vets myself. The dose garland needs is 1mg NOT 4mg try and get4mg pills from a pharmacy and quarter.

Violet,
What is the anti nausea mediation you were prescribed? At 16 mg tablets, it sounds like Cerenia. Karrie's reference to 4 mg tablets sounds like Ondansetron (Zofran). While I have not been following the specifics of the nausea and/or anti-emetic meds you have been discussing, and have been prescribed, I just want to make sure that everyone is on the same page when dosing of medications is discussed.
Click to expand...
That was a mistake. sorry :( Yea, the cerinea was 16.. these are ondansetron. they are 4mg. I corrected my original post now. thanks :)
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183

Violet and Garland said:
Linda and Bear Man said:
Postby Violet and Garland » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:45 am
How many pills do you guys think I need of this anti nausea med? You say I need to split into 4ths right(1 pill is 16mg) He wrote the Rx for 15 pills. Surely I dont need that many, right?

Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183
postby Karrie and Maverick » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:20 am
At the vets myself. The dose garland needs is 1mg NOT 4mg try and get4mg pills from a pharmacy and quarter.

Violet,
What is the anti nausea mediation you were prescribed? At 16 mg tablets, it sounds like Cerenia. Karrie's reference to 4 mg tablets sounds like Ondansetron (Zofran). While I have not been following the specifics of the nausea and/or anti-emetic meds you have been discussing, and have been prescribed, I just want to make sure that everyone is on the same page when dosing of medications is discussed.
Click to expand...
That was a mistake. sorry :( Yea, the cerinea was 16.. these are ondansetron. they are 4mg. I corrected my original post now. thanks :)
Click to expand...

OK, good. You can get a pill cutter from the pharmacy to cut the pills. If you give it twice daily, 7 pills cut in quarters would be a two week supply. That might be a good starting supply. At once daily, it would last you a month. I know Karrie is your expert on the dosing (once daily vs twice daily), so I defer to her if she has a different suggestion.
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183 +3 217

Even though your vet prescribed 4mg its recommended to go with 1mg. 4mg is the highest dose and most cats even with severe FHL do well on 1mg. A quarter of a 4mg pill twice daily.

I want to write back more in depth after getting a lot of feedback on Garland. Cutting back pepcid to once daily and trying to discontinue metoclopromide. This can cause nausea and dizziness to some cats. I will write more detailed instructions. I'm just back from the vet and have some catching up to do.
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183 +3 217

If the Recovery is too pricy, I have some food suggestions--when my friends' cat went through FHL and they simply couldn't afford to keep feeding the A/D, I researched the content of a lot of different foods and suggested some for them that ended up working well (Their cat, Chi Chi, made a full recovery). I also used these foods to keep weight on Gabby during her fight with cancer, and they worked well then, too. I have no experience with FHL personally so I don't know if there are things that need to be considered in diet other than calories, but here are the foods we used. I know PetGuard isn't on the charts but I have the as-fed values from the company and I'll post the percentages below. The PetGuard does contain Rice Flour, so the carb content is around 14%. Neither Chi Chi nor Gabby were diabetic, and the PetGuard values are nearly identical to the A/D, so we did not worry about this. Wellness Kitten was higher in fat, but lower in carbs (5%).

These worked the best:

Petguard Premium Feast
Wellness Kitten


And these were close seconds:

Wellness Turkey
Wellness Chicken
EVO Turkey & Chicken Formula (not the 95%)

PetGuard Premium Feast Values
Source of calories
Protein 41.7%
Fat 44.0%
Carbohydrate 14.3%
Fiber 1 0.94 g/100 kcal
Phosphorus 244 mg/100 kcal
Total calories 247.5 per 5.5 oz can
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183 +3 217

Feeding tube advice and thoughts. More information to follow to clarify.
1. Ondansetron. This is one of the biggest things for an FHL cat to start looking and feeling better. Garland is dealing with higher blood glucose numbers and recovery from DKA also though so I have to remember to keep this in mind.
2.. Pepcid. The FAF Moderators wonder if this is required. I don't think stomach acid is an issue. Recommend dropping this to 1/4 pill once a day and see how she does. If stomach acid (clear or frothy vomit) remains a non issue drop it completely after a couple days of one pill.
3. Metoclopromide. If she isn't vomiting undigested food after more than a couple hours after feeding most likely this can be tapered back. It isn't the best for cats unless nausea is due to stomach motility issues (stomach not moving food through well). So if you can remove one dose of this. Keep in mind do not do these changes when you are using R, we don't want to impact keeping food down or making changes around this. But if you remove one dose and she keeps the food down and there are no issues you can most likely discontinue this. It was prescribed for motility and nausea initially. FHL cats can have motility issues but I expect it is okay now. Vets also prescribe this for nausea but it doesn't work for cats for overall nausea. This is what you will be giving the ondansetron for.
4. Extra calories between feeding. Baby Food: There is a baby food that is 100 calories per jar that is pure meat and broth. I'm getting the specifics from the FAF group on this. I think you could give 10mls an hour and a half after feeding with a six ml flush. This won't impact Blood Glucose like Clinicare. You could also thin the Recovery food with babyfood as opposed to clinicare. You have to blend the heck out of it.
Different foods. Wellness Chicken is what we switched Maverick to. The Royal Canin recovery food was way too expensive. He handled the switch very well. This switch should be done over a few days to avoid diarrhea and stomach upset. If undiagnosed pancreatitis is an issue her stomach may not handle this. But thinning it with baby food could help. This will allow for more calories per ml.
5. Feeding every 2.5 hours as opposed to 3 hours. The stomach should be cleared of the previous feeding by then unless motility is an issue.
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183 +3 217

Okay, whew, errand city over here at my casa LOL Thanks everyone for the wonderful advice :) I need all the help I can get LOL Heres where i am right now:

1)Going to pick up the meds in a couple hours. I got 10 4mg pills that I will split into 4ths

2)I am going to the vet this afternoon. They are going to rewrap and show me how to change Garlands bandages and give me some new syringes (my little ones are all sticking now)

3)While I am there I am picking up recovery and clinicare, so thats all taken care of. :) Once this batch runs out I will switch to the cheaper options. Hopefully this will last a while

4)This weekend I will pick up the supplies I need to start changing her bandages myself

------------

So once I start these new meds, I need to stop giving the Meto and go down to once daily pepcid? Morning or night? What about the potassium gel? When do I stop that?

Its 230, Im about to feed garland. So I will check in before I head to the vet
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 PMPS 395

wow, this is the first time ive had a chance to sit down since the vet LOL Ill go back through and read all the posts and stuff in a minute. I just wanted to put this out there really quick-->>

Okay, I just gave her lantus. R tonight or not?
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183 +3 217

Karrie and Maverick said:
Feeding tube advice and thoughts. More information to follow to clarify.
1. Ondansetron. This is one of the biggest things for an FHL cat to start looking and feeling better. Garland is dealing with higher blood glucose numbers and recovery from DKA also though so I have to remember to keep this in mind.
2.. Pepcid. The FAF Moderators wonder if this is required. I don't think stomach acid is an issue. Recommend dropping this to 1/4 pill once a day and see how she does. If stomach acid (clear or frothy vomit) remains a non issue drop it completely after a couple days of one pill.
3. Metoclopromide. If she isn't vomiting undigested food after more than a couple hours after feeding most likely this can be tapered back. It isn't the best for cats unless nausea is due to stomach motility issues (stomach not moving food through well). So if you can remove one dose of this. Keep in mind do not do these changes when you are using R, we don't want to impact keeping food down or making changes around this. But if you remove one dose and she keeps the food down and there are no issues you can most likely discontinue this. It was prescribed for motility and nausea initially. FHL cats can have motility issues but I expect it is okay now. Vets also prescribe this for nausea but it doesn't work for cats for overall nausea. This is what you will be giving the ondansetron for.
4. Extra calories between feeding. Baby Food: There is a baby food that is 100 calories per jar that is pure meat and broth. I'm getting the specifics from the FAF group on this. I think you could give 10mls an hour and a half after feeding with a six ml flush. This won't impact Blood Glucose like Clinicare. You could also thin the Recovery food with babyfood as opposed to clinicare. You have to blend the heck out of it.
Different foods. Wellness Chicken is what we switched Maverick to. The Royal Canin recovery food was way too expensive. He handled the switch very well. This switch should be done over a few days to avoid diarrhea and stomach upset. If undiagnosed pancreatitis is an issue her stomach may not handle this. But thinning it with baby food could help. This will allow for more calories per ml.
5. Feeding every 2.5 hours as opposed to 3 hours. The stomach should be cleared of the previous feeding by then unless motility is an issue.
Click to expand...
thanks :) Im gonna start the O tomorrow morning. Ill drop the pepcid and meto tonight and only give it to her in the mornings. Baby food is a good idea, i have some of that onhand... i have some recovery now, once this batch runs out I will start using the different other foods. Thanks for all the options!!
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 +1.5 183 +3 217

Julia & Bandit said:
If the Recovery is too pricy, I have some food suggestions--when my friends' cat went through FHL and they simply couldn't afford to keep feeding the A/D, I researched the content of a lot of different foods and suggested some for them that ended up working well (Their cat, Chi Chi, made a full recovery). I also used these foods to keep weight on Gabby during her fight with cancer, and they worked well then, too. I have no experience with FHL personally so I don't know if there are things that need to be considered in diet other than calories, but here are the foods we used. I know PetGuard isn't on the charts but I have the as-fed values from the company and I'll post the percentages below. The PetGuard does contain Rice Flour, so the carb content is around 14%. Neither Chi Chi nor Gabby were diabetic, and the PetGuard values are nearly identical to the A/D, so we did not worry about this. Wellness Kitten was higher in fat, but lower in carbs (5%).

These worked the best:

Petguard Premium Feast
Wellness Kitten


And these were close seconds:

Wellness Turkey
Wellness Chicken
EVO Turkey & Chicken Formula (not the 95%)

PetGuard Premium Feast Values
Source of calories
Protein 41.7%
Fat 44.0%
Carbohydrate 14.3%
Fiber 1 0.94 g/100 kcal
Phosphorus 244 mg/100 kcal
Total calories 247.5 per 5.5 oz can
Click to expand...

Thanks for this list!! It will come in handy when I run out of this new batch of recovery!!!
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 PMPS 395 +418

Good evening, guys! Lots of stuff going on with Garland... so glad to see you are well taken care of. :-D Beautiful PS for Garland this morning, and that +1 tonight is relatively flat, which is good! Keeping you guys in my thoughts and prayers!!
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 PMPS 395 +418

Just a post of support and prayers for you both. Whatever amazing bond you have with Garland, it will quadruple for all the love you give her and the time you spend with her.

Violet...YOU ROCK!!
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 PMPS 395 +1 418 +2 418

+2 418

Okay, so its 10, i went to check her BS and took food with me to feed her right after. I walked in to where she was and she started throwing up :( I didnt give her the meto or the pepcid tonight like I usually do.. would that cause it? THe last time I fed her was around 730.... shes been fine... such a random throw up. So i didnt feed her now. Im gonna wait
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 PMPS 395 +1 418 +2 418

Stubborn BGs tonight.

I don't have experience with feeding tubes and FHL and nausea/vomiting issues. I can't say if eliminating the meto and the pepcid contributed. How about modifying your condo header with "nausea advice needed". There may be someone out there who could chime in. Other than this vomiting episode, how has Garland been today?
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 PMPS 395 +1 418 +2 418

Sandy and Black Kitty said:
Stubborn BGs tonight.

I don't have experience with feeding tubes and FHL and nausea/vomiting issues. I can't say if eliminating the meto and the pepcid contributed. How about modifying your condo header with "nausea advice needed". There may be someone out there who could chime in. Other than this vomiting episode, how has Garland been today?
Click to expand...
Shes been great! She hasnt thrown up since the morning of 8/22. And this time she threw up its been now 3 hours after her last feed... odd.. The only things different is ive upped the frequency of her food and didnt give her the pepcid or meto
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 PMPS 395 +1 418 +2 418 she threw u

Sandy and Black Kitty said:
Did you get medicine for nausea and/or vomiting today?
Click to expand...
Its filled. Ready for pickup in the morning. Im going first thing
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 PMPS 395 +1 418 +2 418 she threw u

I was going to feed her at 10, but she threw up right when i went in there. The vet told me to not feed her for 2-3 hours after a vomiting episode to give her tummy time to recover and settle. My pediatrician tells me the same thing when my kids throw up
 
Re: 8/24 Garland AMPS 193 PMPS 395 +1 418 +2 418 she threw u

She may be bouncing from the blue streak earlier today.

Violet, Garland has been on 2.5u for 6 cycles now. This dose has done all it can do - it's time to increase.
So tomorrow mornings Lantus shot will be 2.75u
And until her vomiting is addressed, I recommend NO R
I'm going to step away for about 1/2 hour - BBL
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top