? 8-23 Panzer vet visit gone wrong

Chrispooky12

Chrispooky12

Member Since 2021
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/08-19-panzer-update-got-purevax-rabies-vaccine.280656/

Panzer went to the vet today. When we finally got back in the room, I find out a vet that has never seen him was seeing him instead of Dr S. I pull him out of the cage I immediately smell pee. He had peed on the towel a little bit. He has never peed anywhere except for the litter box ever. The vet tech asks what meds he's on & I tell her all of them. She leaves the room & comes back & wants to take him in the back, he's growling & hissing so she says ok maybe not. I said normally they do a cystocentesis in the room with me. The vet comes in & asks me if he's peeing, pooping, eating, drinking I say yes but he's going back & forth between boxes & sometimes not peeing & laying in the box, then he leaves & comes back 5mins later & pees. She said his fur was so soft & beautiful for a diabetic cat, I said that's because he only eats wet food & he's regulated & I showed her his spreadsheet, she was very impressed. She was going to take him back for an x-ray to see if there was pee in his bladder but it was being used. Two vet techs & her decide to try & do a cystocentesis in the room with me. One of the vet techs & the vet hold him down & put the blanket over his head so he can't bite or scratch them. The other vet tech trys to find his bladder, she sticks two different needles in him three different times & says I think I'm putting the needle in his fat. So they decided to give me a kit for cat urine collection, which is some special litter & a syringe to suck the urine up into & bring it back to them. Isn't this the same thing as a clean catch? Should I buy a small litter box & do it the way they say to do it or should I just catch the pee in my measuring cup & suck it up in there syringe? The vet said something about maybe starting him on amoxicillin until I can get the pee to them to send off for a culture & changed her mind because it would make his urine results not accurate. I thought they had to do a cystocentesis in order for it to be sent off for a culture?

I am so very mad right now. I got him his PUREVAX rabies vaccine that they insisted on him having before seeing him. Then I get 3 incompetent people trying to get pee from his FAT & sent home with this crap & it costs $72 for an exam & the urine collection kit. Once I do get the urine I will have to wait until Friday to take it in & that's if they don't close early. The house I clean tomorrow is an all day house so no possibility of taking it tomorrow. My Friday house is big too but I can get it done & take the urine in if there open until normal time. I immediately cleaned Panzer's cage,started a towel load & gave him a bath & he did absolutely great, the best he's ever done getting a bath!

Should I use the urine kit they gave me or use my designated measuring cup for Panzer pee? @Suzanne & Darcy @tiffmaxee @Bron and Sheba (GA) @Shelley & Jess @Bandit's Mom
 
So sorry about the vet visit. I think you are right whether put in their jar or not you would be getting a clean catch so do whatever is easier.
 
tiffmaxee said:
So sorry about the vet visit. I think you are right whether put in their jar or not you would be getting a clean catch so do whatever is easier.
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Thank you Elise. The 2 litter boxes I have now are actuality small totes because Panzer being the big whopping 18lbs he is doesn't fit in a normal size litter box & if I did buy a small litter box & put there litter in it am I supposed to say " Now Panzer you use that box for me & Spook you pee in the normal boxes" :p they might listen to me :joyful: I know a way to get him to pee in but I'm just being a smart ass LOL
 
That is just non-absorbing litter that they use. No difference between that an putting a cup under him while he’s going. Do whatever works for you. Do you have a sterile cup to collect it in?

sorry the vet visit was so messed up!
 
Chrispooky12 said:
Chris & China (GA) what are your thoughts?
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The only way to get a "clean catch" is with a cystocentesis since the urine is taken directly from the bladder. I'm so sorry Panzer was put through so much today, especially without any results.

The other ways (either one) means the urine has to leave the bladder, run through the urinary tract and leave the body via the Urethra where any place along that route the urine could pick up bacteria.

I'm sure you've been asked to provide a urine sample for your doctor at some point. If they want a "clean catch", you have to use special wipes (usually 2-3 times) and clean your privates so as the urine leaves your body, it hasn't had a chance to gather any bacteria. We can't really do that with our sugarcats though.

Enough about that. If you can stick a cup under him while he's peeing, that will work. Collecting the urine from the special litter they gave you is also OK as long as it's a fresh sample (and if you can't take it to them right away, keep it in the fridge)
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
That is just non-absorbing litter that they use. No difference between that an putting a cup under him while he’s going. Do whatever works for you. Do you have a sterile cup to collect it in?

sorry the vet visit was so messed up!
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I have a syringe type of thing that once you suck the pee up in it you then put a cap on it that's all provided & it's in a sealed wrapper until I open it to get the pee.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
And you can send a clean catch for a culture, but the preferred way is via cysto. It didn’t work out in Panzer’s case. Poor boy. I feel angry that he was unnecessarily poked multiple times with needles!
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These vets drive me crazy. The vet that require a rabies vaccine said you can't send a clean catch & the high tech vet says you can. I've lost all trust in vets. I'm very angry that they poked him several times to. I asked the vet if that hurts him & she said yes it's the same thing as giving a shot:mad:
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
The only way to get a "clean catch" is with a cystocentesis since the urine is taken directly from the bladder. I'm so sorry Panzer was put through so much today, especially without any results.

The other ways (either one) means the urine has to leave the bladder, run through the urinary tract and leave the body via the Urethra where any place along that route the urine could pick up bacteria.

I'm sure you've been asked to provide a urine sample for your doctor at some point. If they want a "clean catch", you have to use special wipes (usually 2-3 times) and clean your privates so as the urine leaves your body, it hasn't had a chance to gather any bacteria. We can't really do that with our sugarcats though.

Enough about that. If you can stick a cup under him while he's peeing, that will work. Collecting the urine from the special litter they gave you is also OK as long as it's a fresh sample (and if you can't take it to them right away, keep it in the fridge)
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Makes sense I will probably just use my designated Panzer measuring cup for pee & catch it that way. Yes I will definitely have to put it in the refrigerator. I just hope I can catch it before the weekend, at least by Friday. He normally goes after eating every time. So I will try & catch it at some point tomorrow & I think they open at 8am so I can take it in before I go to clean my Friday house. I tell everyone I will be there between 930 & 10am so I can get a + 3 test before I leave him until lunch time.
 
Chrispooky12 said:
e normally goes after eating every time.
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Yes! If you pay attention, pretty much every cat has a routine that they follow. Eat/Pee/Bath/Sleep or Pee/Eat/Bath/Sleep or whatever your cat's routine is.

That's how I figured out when China was "using the facilities". Always after she ate, I could hear her scratching in her box!

It's another one of those "Know Thy Cat" things!
 
Thank you everyone for your responses. I haven't been able to get a sample from Panzer yet.

I got a text this morning from one of my clients that her sister also my client lost her battle with leukemia last night. I have been very upset & crying all day didn't even go to work. Although I only knew Tracie for 5 months, she was very special to me & always will be. she told me after she was diagnosed in April that she believes God sent me to her that I was her angel:(
 
Chrispooky12 said:
Thank you everyone for your responses. I haven't been able to get a sample from Panzer yet.

I got a text this morning from one of my clients that her sister also my client lost her battle with leukemia last night. I have been very upset & crying all day didn't even go to work. Although I only knew Tracie for 5 months, she was very special to me & always will be. she told me after she was diagnosed in April that she believes God sent me to her that I was her angel:(
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I'm so sorry Tracie lost her battle with leukemia. Only knowing Tracie for a few months doesn't make your loss any easier. Sounds like you and Tracie connected in a special way.
:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

I hope you were able to get a sample from Panzer.
 
Lori Callagy said:
I'm so sorry Tracie lost her battle with leukemia. Only knowing Tracie for a few months doesn't make your loss any easier. Sounds like you and Tracie connected in a special way.
:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

I hope you were able to get a sample from Panzer.
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Thank you :bighug: yes we did connect in a special way:bighug:

I had a crazy day today so was unable to get a sample today:( hopefully I will get one Sunday night Monday morning
 
I had a bit of a crazy day today. I started a deep clean on a new house that I got here in my hometown & will be going back several nights next week after Panzer's PMPS shot to finish up so I can start her regular cleaning on her scheduled date.

I got a call around noon today from Tracies husband Eric, I was actually supposed to clean her house today but because of her passing I figured I would wait & see what Eric wanted to do. He wants me to clean the house the day before her funeral beccause they are having her celebration of life after her funeral at the house & he also wants me to continue cleaning for awhile, he said we will talk about that when he sees me. I figure he's going to sell the house & move closer to his kids. It was just him & Tracie & there 2 beagle dogs living in the house & it's a huge house.

I believe Panzer dropped lower in his AMPS cycle while I was working & is bouncing from that or possibly bouncing from the beautiful cycle he had last night, because he hasn't been in the 200s since I threatened him with an increase & switched sides to shoot. If the higher numbers continue for the next couple of days I will switch to the other side & shoot before thinking about an increase.

I'm going to try & get a urine sample Sunday evening Monday morning so I can run it to the vet Monday morning before I clean Robin's house whom is Tracies sister. Robin's house normally takes me about 6hrs to clean but she has been having me help her with extra things & paying me extra. We have also become very good friends & I want to be there for her a little extra because of Tracies passing. I love Robin & Tracie so much & I'm very glad I got to be a part of Tracies life even if it was only for a short time & I'm looking forward to my continuing friendship with Robin. :)
 
Oh Christina, I am really sorry about your friend passing away. That’s so sad. You obviously were special to her. It is a blessing that you two connected. Hugs.
 
Regarding Panzer’s urine sample, I was reading this on felinecrf and thought of you and Panzer. The recommendation is to get the urine sample to the vet within four hours of obtaining the sample. Also has tips on getting the free catch and making sure you get a “mid-stream” sample.

Obtaining Urine Samples
Urine samples may be obtained in a number of ways. Some methods (free catch and non-absorbent litter) can be used at home and you then take the sample to your vet for testing. Samples obtained in this way are sufficient to run most of the tests discussed here, but are not sterile, so are not suitable for running a culture and sensitivity test (see below) to check for infection. In this situation you need to take your cat to your vet for cystocentesis.

If you do obtain a sample at home, ideally you want to take it to the vet within four hours. If you are assessing the urine for the presence of crystals, you need to take it in sooner: Effects of storage time and temperature on pH, specific gravity, and crystal formation in urine samples from dogs and cats(2003) Albasan H, Lulich JP, Osborne CA, Lekcharoensuk C, Ulrich LK & Carpenter KA Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 222(2) pp176-179 found that "Storage time and temperature did not have a significant effect on pH or specific gravity" but "Urine samples should be analyzed within 60 minutes of collection to minimize temperature- and time-dependent effects on in vitro crystal formation."

Urinalysis: performing an accurate urine sediment analysis(2009) Lulich JP Delaware Valley Academy of Veterinary Medicine discusses how to obtain urine samples in more detail.

Free Catch

Free catch means that you stick a container under your cat as s/he urinates and catch some urine in it. I can't imagine my cats tolerating this but some people's cats don't mind, in which case it is probably the quickest and easiest way.

Some people use a ladle, which means you don't need to get too close to your cat. You can also buy sterile, individually wrapped cups for this purpose from your vet or online. As with humans, you should aim for a mid stream sample, i.e. let your cat urinate for a few seconds before putting the cup in place. To maintain sterility, try not to let the cup touch anything, such as your cat or the litter tray.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Regarding Panzer’s urine sample, I was reading this on felinecrf and thought of you and Panzer. The recommendation is to get the urine sample to the vet within four hours of obtaining the sample. Also has tips on getting the free catch and making sure you get a “mid-stream” sample.

Obtaining Urine Samples
Urine samples may be obtained in a number of ways. Some methods (free catch and non-absorbent litter) can be used at home and you then take the sample to your vet for testing. Samples obtained in this way are sufficient to run most of the tests discussed here, but are not sterile, so are not suitable for running a culture and sensitivity test (see below) to check for infection. In this situation you need to take your cat to your vet for cystocentesis.

If you do obtain a sample at home, ideally you want to take it to the vet within four hours. If you are assessing the urine for the presence of crystals, you need to take it in sooner: Effects of storage time and temperature on pH, specific gravity, and crystal formation in urine samples from dogs and cats(2003) Albasan H, Lulich JP, Osborne CA, Lekcharoensuk C, Ulrich LK & Carpenter KA Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 222(2) pp176-179 found that "Storage time and temperature did not have a significant effect on pH or specific gravity" but "Urine samples should be analyzed within 60 minutes of collection to minimize temperature- and time-dependent effects on in vitro crystal formation."

Urinalysis: performing an accurate urine sediment analysis(2009) Lulich JP Delaware Valley Academy of Veterinary Medicine discusses how to obtain urine samples in more detail.

Free Catch

Free catch means that you stick a container under your cat as s/he urinates and catch some urine in it. I can't imagine my cats tolerating this but some people's cats don't mind, in which case it is probably the quickest and easiest way.

Some people use a ladle, which means you don't need to get too close to your cat. You can also buy sterile, individually wrapped cups for this purpose from your vet or online. As with humans, you should aim for a mid stream sample, i.e. let your cat urinate for a few seconds before putting the cup in place. To maintain sterility, try not to let the cup touch anything, such as your cat or the litter tray.
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Thank you Suzanne, this is very helpful my work schedule next week is going to be really crazy, I will be cleaning 6 houses in 5 days. I'm going to try & get a sample from Panzer on Wed one of the above ways. Or I even thought about requesting another vet appointment with the vet that I am used to him seeing. What do you think? @Suzanne & Darcy
 
Chrispooky12 said:
Thank you Suzanne, this is very helpful my work schedule next week is going to be really crazy, I will be cleaning 6 houses in 5 days. I'm going to try & get a sample from Panzer on Wed one of the above ways. Or I even thought about requesting another vet appointment with the vet that I am used to him seeing. What do you think? @Suzanne & Darcy
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Yes. It might be better go back to the place you are used to going. But will they do a culture? Or will the other vet? Or do you care at this point if they send it off to a lab for culture. One of those two vets did send a urine sample to a lab for culture before because I remember reading the results.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Yes. It might be better go back to the place you are used to going. But will they do a culture? Or will the other vet? Or do you care at this point if they send it off to a lab for culture. One of those two vets did send a urine sample to a lab for culture before because I remember reading the results.
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It would be the same vet I took him to with the 3 incompetent people but with Dr S the high tech vet who wouldn't see him again until he had the rabies vaccine. He's successfully done several cystocentesis & he was the one that sent it out for a culture before to see what kind of bacteria & the best antibiotic for him.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Yes. It might be better go back to the place you are used to going. But will they do a culture? Or will the other vet? Or do you care at this point if they send it off to a lab for culture. One of those two vets did send a urine sample to a lab for culture before because I remember reading the results.
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We won't be going to the old school vet unless we need Cerenia because it's much cheaper through him.
 
I gave him his PMPS shot on te left side & look at those numbers coming down. Fingers & paws crossed that he starts going down the green path & stays out of those yellows!
 
70@+8 PMPS OMG I have to go to bed I can't keep my eyes open any longer! He started out @ 207 PMPS it really makes a difference when I switch sides to shoot:D
 
I'm so sorry you and Panzer had to go through this. It's so frustrating that our little ones are treated with so little care. I've had my fair share the past week. Basically, the vet told me that they don't want to treat Fistuk because I don't follow their method. Which is to wait for weeks for their phone call.... I shared with her my SS with the beautiful blues and yellow that he's for the first time and the only thing she had to say was that what I'm doing hasn't been proven scientifically
I hope you manage to catch a good rest and that Pazner gets to relax and you can catch a good wee from him :bighug:
 
shellys said:
I'm so sorry you and Panzer had to go through this. It's so frustrating that our little ones are treated with so little care. I've had my fair share the past week. Basically, the vet told me that they don't want to treat Fistuk because I don't follow their method. Which is to wait for weeks for their phone call.... I shared with her my SS with the beautiful blues and yellow that he's for the first time and the only thing she had to say was that what I'm doing hasn't been proven scientifically
I hope you manage to catch a good rest and that Pazner gets to relax and you can catch a good wee from him :bighug:
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My 2nd vet did not like my way of doing things, said that I needed to trust them & do what they say, which was to not home test, keep him on dry food & give him 6 units of insulin! After his dental extraction I fired them. The vet I have now is totally on board with them. When I first started taking him to the vet I'm at now I wrote everything down on a piece of paper that the FDMB people said to have done & showed it to the vet & he did everything they asked. My first vet is on board with the FDMB as well but they are old school & don't do cystocentesis or a urinalysis & a culture so I'm back with vet #3. You might look into another vet if you have that option. Good luck to you & your kitty :bighug:
 
Panzer has not been feeling well, I'm assuming it's the high #s that he isn't used to. He's been going under the bed & the couch, had a bit of a loose stool last night. We have an appointment tomorrow with Dr S @3pm +9 AMPS. Shot him in the left side @ AMPS & #s are coming down finally...back to work.
 
Panzer had a beautiful cycle tonight finally, shooting on the opposite side really seems to work for him. Of course his low is 68 @+6(midnight) he ate his +6 meal & I will test again @+7 & hopefully be going to bed. I'm glad he's in the greens again but momma is tired :D he perked up @ PMPS & had the zoomies for a good 10mins :cat: I will make a new post tomorrow after what will hopefully be a successful vet visit!
 
Chrispooky12 said:
My 2nd vet did not like my way of doing things, said that I needed to trust them & do what they say, which was to not home test, keep him on dry food & give him 6 units of insulin! After his dental extraction I fired them. The vet I have now is totally on board with them. When I first started taking him to the vet I'm at now I wrote everything down on a piece of paper that the FDMB people said to have done & showed it to the vet & he did everything they asked. My first vet is on board with the FDMB as well but they are old school & don't do cystocentesis or a urinalysis & a culture so I'm back with vet #3. You might look into another vet if you have that option. Good luck to you & your kitty :bighug:
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I'm happy you found someone who's on board with FDMB. The vet that treated us basically shook me off her hands. Put up a wall. I'm now looking for another one. And thanks for sharing about the AT. I've decided not to buy one just to get some tests for the vet. It's too expensive I just can't afford to through 230 bucks on a make belief for the vet. I put my trust in the community here and that the universe will show me the way to a less ego centric vet ;)
 
I was going to make an update on Panzer but I will post once I get the results of the urinalysis & culture.

The vet was able to get a sample of urine from Panzer's bladder. It took me & 2 vet techs to hold him down/still & the vet doing the cystocentesis. He didn't get a lot but said he would make sure there was enough for the culture first then the urinalysis. Panzer peed as soon as we got home! He said they should have the urinalysis results tomorrow & the culture by Friday. He mentioned treating him with the covenia shot & I said NO & told him what I know about it. So it is now in his chart NO COVENIA. It cost $425.00 glad I had that much on me ridiculous.
 
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