6/8 Simon PMPS 137 late PMPS 219, +1 237, +2 239, +6 181

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Bruce & Simon

Bruce & Simon

Member Since 2011
Decent amps for Simon. Had his 1u with his breakfast (about 50g Turkey & Giblets)
He's gained almost 1 lb since May 24.
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305 Lantus Day 1

Good luck with the Lantus. I hope you have a good day.
That's a big weight gain in 2 weeks. Sorry, if I don't know Simon's story, I guess he needed to gain some weight?
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305 Lantus Day 1

Thanks! At his weight "nadir" in 2003-4 he was 22 lbs., courtesy of an exclusive diet of
Medi-Cal Weight Control food. He had a nice slow decline to about 15 lbs., but
the last several months he lost about 3 lbs., I'm glad to see it coming back.
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194 - Lantus Day 1

i know you've been doing some reading, but just to make sure you understand that the first few days part of the dose is captured in building the shed so it takes a few days to see the "real" effect of a dose. marjorie (gracie) has awesome patience pants that she loans out - both pink and yellow - if you need them. :lol:

have a great day, bruce!
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194 - Lantus Day 1

Hi guys, don't think I have stopped in to read up on Simon yet .. I'm glad to hear his weight is coming back if he needed it .. and that nice blue at +3 isn't looking to bad either! Have a great day guys!
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194 - Lantus Day 1

Thanks all :smile: Really happy (and somewhat surprised) to see the drop so soon.
Nice and gentle, as opposed to being pushed off a cliff. I'll grab some more readings this pm, and then of
course agonize at PMPS LOL
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194 - Lantus Day 1

no agony needed! that's the great thing about lantus - you don't change the dose for days unless they get too low at the nadir. especially when you're starting out. If you get the urge to change the dose, post the Q in your subject line to get some expert eyes on simon's numbers and give you some help. while you're waiting for an answer, don't feed simon. So it helps if you ask at least 30-60 minutes ahead of shot time so you can get an answer.

Here's the part that applies to you right now:

from STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - TIGHT REGULATION PROTOCOL
WHEN FOLLOWING A TIGHT REGULATION PROTOCOL WITH LANTUS OR LEVEMIR...

Kitty should be monitored closely the first three days when starting Lantus or Levemir.
Blood glucose levels should at least be checked at pre-shot, +3, +6, and +9.
More monitoring may be needed.
It will be necessary to test kitty's blood glucose levels multiple times per day.
Learn the signs of and how to treat HYPOGLYCEMIA and prepare a HYPO TOOLBOX.
Test regularly for ketones and know about DIABETIC KETOACIDOSIS (DKA).
Use U-100 3/10cc syringes with half units marked on the barrel for fine dosing.
Feed a high quality low carb canned or raw food diet.
Feed small meals throughout the day. Some kitties adapt well to free feeding.

Many Lantus and Levemir users in this forum have been successful following a somewhat modified version of this Tight Regulation Protocol for the last few years. These "general" guidelines are based on anecdotal evidence and personal experiences of laypersons frequenting the forum.

"General" Guidelines:
Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 consecutive cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 consecutive cycles).
Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 consecutive cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).
Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194 - Lantus Day 1

Hi Bruce, welcome to LL!

Good luck with Lantus! I'll bet you are going to like it compared to Canninsulin.

Julie gave you good info. Sometimes when you switch from another insulin, there is an immediate response to Lantus. It doesn't always continue, but it's wise to monitor closely for the first few days. I would try to get another test or two during this cycle. Onset has just started...you could see a bigger drop.
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194 - Lantus Day 1

78 @ +6. The "small snack" is 1/4 of a 5.5 oz. can of lc (less than 5%) which I split
between the four of them. The other three heartily approve LOL.

Agony was a bit of an exaggeration :smile: But I am concerned about over night....
that's when I usually feed then put out extra for overnight. I'm on a 6am/6pm shooting
schedule, so even +6 puts me at midnight, whereas with the caninsulin I'd see the peak around +4,
feed accordingly and we'd all head to bed.
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194 - Lantus Day 1

Nice response, pretty number at +6! I would grab a +7 to see if he's heading back up or not.

I understand your concern about the PM cycle. We ask everyone to get at least a before bed test, that will usually give you an idea of where Simon is heading, and if you will need to stay up and test more, leave out some extra or higher carb food, or set an alarm.....everybody finds their own way of managing the PM cycles. Once you get some data on how Simon responds to Lantus, it will get easier. I know you are an experienced caregiver, it will work out.
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194 - Lantus Day 1

Laurie and Mr Tinkles said:
Nice response, pretty number at +6! I would grab a +7 to see if he's heading back up or not.
Click to expand...
+7 85 What a good boy!
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194, +6 78, +7 85 - Lantus Day 1

Very nice! I would still try to get a +9 if you can. These are great numbers, I hope they continue! :smile:

One thing to be aware of...nadirs move around, so you can't assume he will always nadir around +6.
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194, +6 78, +7 85 - Lantus Day 1

Laurie and Mr Tinkles said:
Very nice! I would still try to get a +9 if you can. These are great numbers, I hope they continue! :smile:

One thing to be aware of...nadirs move around, so you can't assume he will always nadir around +6.
Click to expand...
I've just let him out for a snooze on the deck (and quite possibly some grass eating, followed by minor upchucking of course).
I'll get a least a +9, maybe another before PMPS. Should I continue feeding? He'd usually get one more "mini"
before PMPS.
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194, +6 78, +7 85 - Lantus Day 1

Hi Bruce and Simon,

Just wanted to stop by and say what a great first day for Simon! Keep up the good work, and have a wonderful day!
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194, +6 78, +7 85 - Lantus Day 1

I would feed him as usual...you do small meals spread out over the day? Just don't feed after +10 (unless he's low, obviously), you want the PMPS to be free from food influence.
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194, +6 78, +7 85 - Lantus Day 1

Thanks Tracy!
Laurie and Mr Tinkles said:
I would feed him as usual...you do small meals spread out over the day? Just don't feed after +10 (unless he's low, obviously), you want the PMPS to be free from food influence.
Click to expand...
I do give multiple small meals (1/4-5.5 oz can). On caninsulin, AM I'd usually give him 1/2 can with his shot, 1/4 at peak
and the other snacks on a somewhat random basis (like when all four are in the kitchen staring at empty bowls).
For the PM (overnight) 1/3 can with shot, another 1/3 at peak (10 pm) and put out another can split four ways.
No real way to determine exactly how/who does all the eating, but it's all gone by 5am :lol: Simon definitely gets his share,
and probably a portion of everyone else's share too. The youngsters can also access some Nature's Variety Instinct Dry
left on a table that Simon won't jump onto. He prefers canned anyway.

I'll feed him (1/4 can) at +9 when I poke him. He's already back inside, (hot & muggy here today) and has taken up
station in the kitchen.
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194, +6 78, +7 85 - Lantus Day 1

You've gotten numbers today that most of us envy!!!! I sure hope it continues for Simon because this is really a nice little curve. It would be nice to see the PS number lower, but he certainly looks beautiful from his +3 onward. Good luck with the Lantus. I don't have any comparisons because that's all I've used with Champ, but I really hope this works out for your Simon!!!
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194, +6 78, +7 85, +9 88 - LL Day

88 @+9 What can I say.. thrilled.
Gave him his 1/4 can, PC Beef, no more food until PMPS. I'll leave him be until then unless anyone thinks another
poke before then necessary (I know you can't have too much data). I did get a smidgen less co-operation
at the +9 poke.

Thanks again everyone
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194, +6 78, +7 85, +9 88 - LL Day

Beautiful! If you want to, you could get a +11, to give you an idea if he is going to stay low until PMPS....but not a necessity. Otherwise, PMPS is good. This is what the Ls are famous for....flat curves.

You may find that feeding after nadir makes his PS numbers higher...just something to keep in the back of your mind.
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194, +6 78, +7 85, +9 88 - LL Day

What a great Day 1 for Simon...WOW!! I don't think you need my patience pants.

marjorie (gracie) has awesome patience pants that she loans out - both pink and yellow - if you need them.
Click to expand...
Note to Bruce: sorry...they are a women's size 6 anyway :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +3 194, +6 78, +7 85, +9 88 - LL Day

@Laurie: I may try a lightening strike at +11 if he's sleeping :cool:

@Marjorie: They might just fit... I'm on a LC diet too :lol:
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +6 78, +7 85, +9 88, +11 105, PMPS 1

Nice PMPS...for a newbie, we suggest not feeding yet (I know you already did), stalling for 15-30 minutes, and then retest. You can see he is clearly rising, so it appears it will be shootable if you are comfortable doing that....but first, do you have HC food, plenty of test strips and will you be able to monitor tonight?

If you want to wait for it to rise higher, you can stall until it gets up to a comfortable number. Because of the gentle action, you can shoot lower numbers with the Ls....we usually suggest shooting over 150 for newbies.

He needs to fall below 40, or 3 times below 50, to earn a reduction. We follow the Tight Regulation Protocol in the sticky at the top of the forum.

What do you think? It's always your choice.

ETA: If you stall, remember that you have to shoot 12 hours from when you shoot tonight....will your schedule allow that?
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +6 78, +7 85, +9 88, +11 105, PMPS 1

Plenty of strips, 5.5 oz can of Friskies "Senior" Chicken & Turkey in Gravy
Purina "Luv" Treats (flour, corn gluten, wheat gluten, all the good stuff)
Honey

I'll check again shortly, of course I'll probably be seeing a food spike too.

To make sure I'm understanding correctly, if he's say 160 at 7:15, I give him his 1u,
and his new AMPS would be 7:15? And based on his first cycle nadir around 1 am.
Rascal!

I'll poke him at PMPS +1 (about 15 mins) and see what's what.
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +6 78, +7 85, +9 88, +11 105, PMPS 1

Yes, that's right..if you shoot at 7:15pm, then AMPS is 7:15am. To get back on schedule, you can shoot 15 minutes early on each shot, or 30 minutes early on one shot per day...numbers permitting of course! So if he is high enough in the morning, you could shoot at 6:45am or 7am. I usually move by 15 minutes at a time...it's less impact on the shed.

This is lovely! But it's hard to say if it will continue, or he will go up and show a more typical response after a cycle or two. I vote for continuing this way!
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +6 78, +7 85, +9 88, +11 105, PMPS 1

Laurie and Mr Tinkles said:
Yes, that's right..if you shoot at 7:15pm, then AMPS is 7:15am. To get back on schedule, you can shoot 15 minutes early on each shot, or 30 minutes early on one shot per day...numbers permitting of course! So if he is high enough in the morning, you could shoot at 6:45am or 7am. I usually move by 15 minutes at a time...it's less impact on the shed.

This is lovely! But it's hard to say if it will continue, or he will go up and show a more typical response after a cycle or two. I vote for continuing this way!
Click to expand...
218 @ 7:10 Gave him his 1u. Obviously insulin was almost petered out, and the meal did the rest :?
Any suggestions for the minimum testing schedule? (Simon has donned his "cranky pants")

LOL, oh yes as a bonus we're having a severe thunderstorm so
I may be doing this in the dark :o Making sure laptop is charged, candles/flashlights handy etc.

As my wife and I often ask "Why is it that we have cats?" :mrgreen:

Thanks so much Laurie (and everyone) for making this day so much easier
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +6 78, +7 85, +9 88, +11 105, PMPS 1

Very nice! (not the thunderstorm though...stay safe! :shock: ) Whenever you shoot your lowest PS ever, you should start out with a +1 and +2....if he's really cranky, how about at least a +2? Anything after that will depend on that test.

:lol: at you and your DW....don't we have cats so we can serve them? Maybe he will be nice to you tonight and surf a little higher....
 
Re: 6/8 Simon PMPS 137 late PMPS 219, +1 237

Dogs have owners, cats have staff? T-Storm warning over, good omen I hope.

+1 237. At least he didn't rocket up.
 
Re: 6/8 Simon AMPS 305, +6 78, +7 85, +9 88, +11 105, PMPS 1

Bruce & Simon said:
(Simon has donned his "cranky pants")
Click to expand...

LOL...I guess it's about time that the kitties here got their own pair of pants to share :lol: :lol: !

Nice day for Simon!!

Amy
 
Re: 6/8 Simon PMPS 137 late PMPS 219, +1 237, +2 239

+1 237 +2 239
I hope that his shot 2 hours ago has "onset" stopping the usual rise to the 300's (or higher).

When Simon hears the "snap" of the strip container closing, the look I'm getting! cat(2)_steam

It's also getting to regular "bedtime snack time....
 
Re: 6/8 Simon PMPS 137 late PMPS 219, +1 237, +2 239

Not bad numbers, he's been steady since you shot. You did send the T storms my way though...wow! I would get a before bed test, if he's not dropping a lot, feed your usual snack and get some sleep. I'm heading to bed soon myself (well, nap and test mode, but I won't be on the board) but there are others who will be up if you need a hand with low numbers...just put something in your subject line. There's a link in my signature in red to a post that explains what to do with lows (under 50 is low)...I know you know to feed, but you might find it helpful.

Gorgeous day! I hope he lets you get some sleep, and do it again tomorrow! :mrgreen: Have a good night, Bruce!
 
Re: 6/8 Simon PMPS 137 late PMPS 219, +1 237, +2 239

Hi Bruce: nice job!!! If you need any help, just post it in your subject line. Many of us west coasters are up late but I think you're gonna be just fine.

Would love to send the pants but need them myself right now. Miss Gracie has decided to remain Miss Flat Cat 2011. Good for you on the LC!! :lol: :lol:
 
Re: 6/8 Simon PMPS 137 late PMPS 219, +1 237, +2 239

T-Storms all over the place it seems. :o

Simon's gone to bed (mine). Ironic.

I fed the gang at +3, going to watch some TV until +5-6 before testing again.
If things look good, I'll put out some food and head to bed.
 
Re: 6/8 Simon PMPS 137 late PMPS 219, +1 237, +2 239

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Hi Bruce: nice job!!! If you need any help, just post it in your subject line. Many of us west coasters are up late but I think you're gonna be just fine.

Would love to send the pants but need them myself right now. Miss Gracie has decided to remain Miss Flat Cat 2011. Good for you on the LC!! :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...
Thanks Marjorie!

Wow, now I know what Miss Flat Cat means! Sheesh!
 
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