6/6 Meadow AMPS 52 PMPS 349...

[Meadow]

Good Morning,

Meadow's AMPS this morning is 52! What advice can you all give me? Obviously I did NOT give her the insulin, but should I just skip the morning dose and remain on schedule for this evening? or should I test her again in a few hours and if she is high, give her the shot then? Or give her a tiny amount when her numbers rise? I'll be gone from noon until her 6pm shot time today so I can't test her between those hours.

I am unclear as to what it means to "clear the bounce". I understand the concept of how the body will compensate now for this low number. But the concept of a bounce remaining for up to 72 hours has me a bit confused. Can anyone clear that up for me?

 

[Weather Girl]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..NEED ADVICE

Dude, what's with everyone's super low AMPS this morning?

My (non-expert) advice: Keep feeding and testing every half hour until you get a shoot-able number, as 52 definitely isn't one. You'll have to shift your shot schedule around to compensate, but you can inch it back down over the next few days.

Here's a link to a condo I had back on May 11th with a similar situation, you can check out the advice I got from Libby and Sienne. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14306

 

[Meadow]

6/6 Meadow AMPS 52.. +2 at 250..Help! Shoot or not???

Okay...2 hours after eating nearly a full can of FF, she is at 250. If I shoot now, I can't be home after 12 noon to monitor her. Also, if I shoot now, I can't do the proper 12 hr split due to my work schedule. I'm leaning toward just skipping the shot until my normal 6pm shot time, but don't want to use up her shed. So maybe just .5 of insulin would help keep the shed topped off?? I just don't know what the best thing is for her right now. Help!

Dude, what's with everyone's super low AMPS this morning?

My (non-expert) advice: Keep feeding and testing every half hour until you get a shoot-able number, as 52 definitely isn't one. You'll have to shift your shot schedule around to compensate, but you can inch it back down over the next few days.

Here's a link to a condo I had back on May 11th with a similar situation, you can check out the advice I got from Libby and Sienne. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14306

 

[carolynandlatte]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..NEED ADVICE

You have a few options (I know a lot of time has passed since you posted, though). So this is mostly for future reference, rather than for today.

retest every 15-30 minutes and see if you find a rising number.
Usually you do not want to feed, because then your rising number could be a food spike and will just fool you...then they could possibly drop again. BUT, this is a low number. So I leave that up to you. I would probably wait 15 min after getting a number like this, retest, and decide to feed or not from there. ECID.

Once you see a steady rise (usually a few tests) and a number you are comfortable shooting, then you can shoot. Some people, once they have data on how their cat will react to shooting low numbers, how high they bounce, if they are home with hc food, strips and able to monitor will shoot full dose. If you do not have data on your cat for shooting this low numbers and/or will not be home, its usually not advised. You could potentially shoot a bcs (big chicken sh*t) dose. That can be anything less than regular dose...1/2 or less often times. You can also skip the shot and go right back to your schedule. Unless you are flexible to make up time 2, 3, 4hrs down the line, if you cant shoot in an hour or so, just probably skip.


Where is Meadow at now (an hour or so past shot time?)

Regarding bounces...they can clear in a cycle, OR take up to 72hrs. Every cat will be different. And every bounce may be different. Thats why its important to do spot checks, even when bouncing...so you can catch their pattern and HOPEFULLY be see a ps like this possibly coming.

Does that make sense?

let us know whats going on when you have a chance.

 

[carolynandlatte]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..NEED ADVICE

If you shoot anything now, you will need to stick with this schedule and slowly work your way back. If you cant do that, then I would just skip. Call it a fur shot (oops!), or whatever. You will get her back on track easier by skipping than having all these time changes, I think.

 

[Meadow]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..NEED ADVICE

You have a few options (I know a lot of time has passed since you posted, though). So this is mostly for future reference, rather than for today.

retest every 15-30 minutes and see if you find a rising number.
Usually you do not want to feed, because then your rising number could be a food spike and will just fool you...then they could possibly drop again. BUT, this is a low number. So I leave that up to you. I would probably wait 15 min after getting a number like this, retest, and decide to feed or not from there. ECID.

So Carolyn, are you saying I should not have fed her breakfast after taking her AMPS test and just keep checking her BG to see if she is rising without food on board? She hadn't eaten since about 10:30pm last night and that was only about a tsp of canned food. She hadn't had a big meal since her 6pm dinner time last night. I thought not eating was bad for diabetics.

Once you see a steady rise (usually a few tests) and a number you are comfortable shooting, then you can shoot. Some people, once they have data on how their cat will react to shooting low numbers, how high they bounce, if they are home with hc food, strips and able to monitor will shoot full dose. If you do not have data on your cat for shooting this low numbers and/or will not be home, its usually not advised. You could potentially shoot a bcs (big chicken sh*t) dose. That can be anything less than regular dose...1/2 or less often times. You can also skip the shot and go right back to your schedule. Unless you are flexible to make up time 2, 3, 4hrs down the line, if you cant shoot in an hour or so, just probably skip.

I'm feeling like I had best skip this shot for now and just stick to my 6am/6pm schedule. I'm too nervous about shooting her now and not being here after 12noon to monitor her.

Where is Meadow at now (an hour or so past shot time?)

Just tested her at +2 and she is at 250....but it's a food spike I'm sure since she ate almost a full can of FF at 6am.

Regarding bounces...they can clear in a cycle, OR take up to 72hrs. Every cat will be different. And every bounce may be different. Thats why its important to do spot checks, even when bouncing...so you can catch their pattern and HOPEFULLY be see a ps like this possibly coming.

Does that make sense?

let us know whats going on when you have a chance.

I think my brain is on overload with all this data. Not grasping the concept of what it means to clear a bounce. If she is in a 72 bounce mode, for instance, does it mean she'll keep going low like she did this monring and then back up again? How does one know if she is in a bounce mode for any given time or just not regulating well? I feel like such a total moron for not understanding this whole thing.

 

[Miriam and Putty (GA)]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..NEED ADVICE

I checked in early this morning to see if anyone needed help and went btb at 6:15. Here are some guidelines if you get a PS number you don't think you can shoot.
It's always best if you can shoot but you need to be data ready to do so. (See the "Becoming Data Ready" sticky.)

Your alternatives are:

Stall - if you stall the shot, you DON'T want to feed. You will re-test in 15 min. or so and repeat until you see that the numbers are either rising or that there's a surf (providing it's not a surf in the 40s!) The reason for not feeding is that when you re-test, you don't want to see a food spike since you won't know if the number is really rising. Once you shoot, go ahead and feed. Remember that with a stall, your shot time for the next cycle is 12 hours from the time you actually shot -- so this can have a big impact on your schedule.
Shoot a reduced dose. We call this a BCS (big chicken sh*t) dose.
Skip the shot. This is the least preferred option since it has the biggest impact on the shed. It may, however, be your best alternative such as if there's a surf in the 40s.

The best case scenario would be to shoot your regular dose as close to your regular shot time as safely as possible. All of the alternatives have an impact on the shed.

At this point how many hours past your regular shot time are you?

 

[Meadow]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..NEED ADVICE

The best case scenario would be to shoot your regular dose as close to your regular shot time as safely as possible. All of the alternatives have an impact on the shed.

At this point how many hours past your regular shot time are you?

Okay, I screwed up and fed her at 6am even though her pre-shot BG was 52. Didn't realize I should have waited to feed and continued to test. Now I know for next time. At this point, I am 3 hours and 15 minutes past her normal shot time. And since I won't be home much of the day, I am opting to skip injection and just give her the normal 6pm dose. I know it's not the best option, but the only one that works right now...unless it's possible to give a very reduced dose and still stick to the 6pm shot time??

 

[carolynandlatte]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..NEED ADVICE

...unless it's possible to give a very reduced dose and still stick to the 6pm shot time??[/color]

nope....just call it a fur shot and go enjoy your day! Like I said, you will get her back on track. It will be fine!

 

[Meadow]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..NEED ADVICE

...unless it's possible to give a very reduced dose and still stick to the 6pm shot time??[/color]

nope....just call it a fur shot and go enjoy your day! Like I said, you will get her back on track. It will be fine!

Thank you, Carolyn. I need you guys to keep me from going totally mad with all this. There's just so much to learn and I have lost 2 cats within the past year that I am just so worried about doing something wrong and losing another one. When I am done with work after June 25th, the days are totally mine and I can make sure I am here and testing 24/7 is need be to get this down right. Until then, I have to do the best I can.

 

[carolynandlatte]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..NEED ADVICE

I think my brain is on overload with all this data. Not grasping the concept of what it means to clear a bounce. If she is in a 72 bounce mode, for instance, does it mean she'll keep going low like she did this monring and then back up again? How does one know if she is in a bounce mode for any given time or just not regulating well? I feel like such a total moron for not understanding this whole thing.

It is quite an overload, isnt it!!!! :shock: We have ALL been there, and even continue to be there a lot of times. ;-)

Because she is bouncing does NOT mean it WILL definitely be 72 hrs. But, it COULD. Thats where the regular testing will come in play...to help you figure out what her pattern is. does she clear bounces in 12 hrs? 24? 72?

Good question about not knowing the difference btw bounce and not being regulated! I often have to ask someone to look at our ss and help tell me, because it CAN be hard to see. For example, Latte took a 330ish pt dive in 2 hrs the other day. I *thought* she cleared it pretty quick (which was a surprise) and sat in the 200's for a number of cycles. I figured she needed to be bumped up a drop in her dose once I saw this. Then yesterday, she showed more action and dropped lower. So, apparently YESTERDAY was when she cleared the bounce. If you are uncertain, and considering a raise in dose, its probably best to wait out the full 72hrs and see what happens.

Ive always found it helpful to look at others ss's to see for bounce patterns. Then when you look back at yours its easier to recognize. For now, all you see are numbers...and its hard to make sense of them.

No doubt Meadow cleared the bounce overnight. And, she is on her way up again. Eventually the liver should learn to not panic, or panic a little less. When that happens, you will see the bounces become shorter and less frequent.

Is that making any more sense? For me, it takes reading things over and over before it clicks. So be patient as you are learning what all of this means. Ask for help often in order to better understand.

You are doing great over there! Grab a chocolate bar while your out today for a treat. :mrgreen:

 

[Miriam and Putty (GA)]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..NEED ADVICE

I agree with Carolyn....the best thing to do at this point is to skip the shot and get back to schedule.
Don't beat yourself up over this....fur shots happen. ;-)

We have all been there....it is a learning process and it takes time.
Enjoy your day. :smile:

 

[Meadow]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..Additional questions!

Good question about not knowing the difference btw bounce and not being regulated! I often have to ask someone to look at our ss and help tell me, because it CAN be hard to see. For example, Latte took a 330ish pt dive in 2 hrs the other day. I *thought* she cleared it pretty quick (which was a surprise) and sat in the 200's for a number of cycles. I figured she needed to be bumped up a drop in her dose once I saw this. Then yesterday, she showed more action and dropped lower. So, apparently YESTERDAY was when she cleared the bounce. If you are uncertain, and considering a raise in dose, its probably best to wait out the full 72hrs and see what happens.

Okay, let me see if I understand this bounce thing a little better.....Meadow gets a very low reading...her body compensates and spills out whatever it spills out and her bg begins to rise. But it rises too high and that's the bounce. Then when her numbers begin to come down again, they may not level off and may go back way high again...and this is the bounce still not cleared? But if her numbers go low then high, then level off, the bounce is cleared? I hope that makes sense because I am not quite sure I am saying it right, but that's how I am understanding it.

Ive always found it helpful to look at others ss's to see for bounce patterns. Then when you look back at yours its easier to recognize. For now, all you see are numbers...and its hard to make sense of them.

Well, my brain is not comprehending those SS's at all. They are all just numbers and colors to me so far. I'm not good at all with graphs, SS's or math. I'll keep studying them and eventually maybe it will click.

No doubt Meadow cleared the bounce overnight. And, she is on her way up again.

Just took another bg and she is at 376. That puts her at +5 after a 6am breakfast with no insulin. I will have someone come in and feed her a little cooked chicken or something around 2pm so she does not have an emptty tummy all day while I am out and so that I can still get a pretty decent reading for her 6pm BG test. Does that sound reasonable? Or should I give her some food at noon just before I leave and then not until 6pm after Itest her?

 

[Meadow]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..NEED ADVICE

I agree with Carolyn....the best thing to do at this point is to skip the shot and get back to schedule.
Don't beat yourself up over this....fur shots happen. ;-)

We have all been there....it is a learning process and it takes time.
Enjoy your day. :smile:

Thank you, Miriam. The encourament really does help. I never knew how stressful and complicated this could be and had always told the vet "well she needs to breathe and if she becomes diabetic, I'll just deal with it". So smug sounding...and now I am here freaking out at every little thing and trying to absorb all this info. I always thought diabetes was...test the sugar and if the level was high, shoot the insulin and if it was low, eat something sweet. Thank goodness this group is here to help!

 

[Libby and Lucy]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..NEED ADVICE

you're catching on, it just takes a while to figure out all the nuances. I've been here a couple of years, and I still learn things all the time.

I'm looking forward to seeing where Meadow is at PMPS. :smile:

 

[Meadow]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..NEED ADVICE

I'm looking forward to seeing where Meadow is at PMPS. :smile:

PMPS was 349. Hubby gave her some home cooked chicken at 4pm, so the level may be a bit skewed due to that, or she may still be in the bounce mode....I think. :shock:

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..NEED ADVICE

Dottie:

When you get a test, can you post the test numbers -- especially the AMPS and PMPS -- in your subject line? You need to go to the first post in the condo and click on the "edit" button and then change the info in the subject line and then click submit. If you need help or if someone is saying they will be looking for a test, it's the only way to know that you need help or if you've gotten the test that we're looking for.

If you need to move your condo further up in the listings, you need to add in a reply/new post.

 

[Meadow]

Re: 6/6 Meadow AMPS 52..NEED ADVICE

Ok, thanks for that heads up, Sienne. Didn't realize I had to change the first post subject line. I was doing it at times to other posts. Geez, you'd think I could smart up a bit!

Dottie:

When you get a test, can you post the test numbers -- especially the AMPS and PMPS -- in your subject line? You need to go to the first post in the condo and click on the "edit" button and then change the info in the subject line and then click submit. If you need help or if someone is saying they will be looking for a test, it's the only way to know that you need help or if you've gotten the test that we're looking for.

If you need to move your condo further up in the listings, you need to add in a reply/new post.