6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +9(76) +10(91)

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Doug N Libby

Doug N Libby

Member Since 2012
Guess it's time to start a new thread :smile:

PMPS (357) +12 - After much debate, we shot .5u
+1. 5 (335) - Now he's finishing the last of his food. He had only left a little bit.
+3 (253)
+6 (106) - Fed. Hairball found. Had to have happened since +4.5
+7 (76) - Fed ~1/4 meal or ~.25-oz
+7.5 (62) - Fed ~1/4 meal or ~.25-oz
+8 (57) - Given ~1/4 meal or ~.25-oz - Reluctantly ate a bite or two and walked away
+8.5 (64) - No food given
+9 (76)
+10 (91)
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's 1st Cycle PMPS(357) +1.5(335) +3(253)

first shot of new insulin... how exciting! :mrgreen:
looking good at +3. i'll be checking back here periodically and am planning on being up through at least your +6.

does hershey usually eat during the cycle?
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's 1st Cycle PMPS(357) +3(253) +6(106)

At +6 - Hairball found. Went to take nap just over an hour ago, so happened since +4.5

+6 (106) - Fed
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's 1st Cycle PMPS(357) +3(253) +6(106)

ah those pesky hairballs!
glad you fed the plus +6. if i were in your shoes i would take a nap and retest at +7 since we don't know when hershey will peak on levemir.
what do you think?
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's 1st Cycle PMPS(357) +3(253) +6(106)

Nah, sleep is for sissies! :lol: :lol: Okay, will retest in an hour - would expect a rise with the food, but once in a while he surprises me. Since he's started leaving 'a mouthful' should I pick up his bowl or let him go graze (if he can beat Oreo to the bowl)?
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's 1st Cycle PMPS(357) +3(253) +6(106)

letting him graze is fine if that's what he usually does.
*most* kitties will self feed...

see you in an hour!
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +3(253) +6(106) +7(76)

My boys are so sweet...I guess they didn't want me to be bored while waiting to retest in an hour. So, first the hairball to clean up...then, they decided to use the litterbox, splash around in it and leave pee pee paw prints all over the floor for me to clean up. :lol: :lol: Smart boys that they are to have done it with me and not daddy who doesn't play well with others at 3am! ;-)

:mrgreen: +7 (76)

Well, now I SURELY don't go to bed...wouldn't be able to sleep...I like the (76) and don't worry until the 40's even then it's not really worry until the 30's and falling...guessin' that part is the same on Levemir...
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's 1st Cycle PMPS(357) +3(253) +6(106)

lol! at least they're giving you something to do!

well feeding @ +6 didn't do anything to stop the drop. i'd give him a couple teaspoons of his regular food to see if you can get him up on a surf board and retest @ +7.5.

if he won't eat, please let me know. otherwise i'll see you in 30 minutes...
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +3(253) +6(106) +7(76)

Fed him ~1/4 of a regular meal, so ~.25-oz and he happily ate it thinking "Jill is my new friend because she said to give me FOOD!!!!"

Thanks for staying up with us. Don't know what time it is for you, but it's almost 3:15am here. I've always been a night owl, but as I'm maturing, I'm finding it harder to rebound the next day. ;-)

Testing in :15
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +3(253) +6(106) +7(76)

Wow, you didn't waste any time pulling your first L all-nighter!
:-)
Carl
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +3(253) +6(106) +7(76)

we don't have enough data yet to know when the best times are to feed hershey, but we will soon. when you're able to plan "mini-meals" at certain times (according to whenever he reaches nadir), you can avoid feeding him more than necessary. we don't want him gaining weight... unless he's currently underweight.

for example, i've divided alex's meals up into 3 portions per cycle. she gets 2 portions at shot time and one portion between +6 and +7. this keeps her from dropping too low. however, ECID. it takes some experimentation to find what works for individual cats.
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +3(253) +6(106) +7(76)

Carl & Bob in SC said:
Wow, you didn't waste any time pulling your first L all-nighter!
:-)
Carl
Click to expand...
what you're seeing here tonight is exactly why we recommend testing at shot times, +3, +6, and +9 for the first few cycles when starting lantus or levemir. the TR protocol actually recommends testing at those times for the first 3 days when starting lantus or levemir. some kitties experience a marked response sometime within those first few cycles (usually the first or second cycle). it doesn't necessarily mean a reduction is required. when working towards tight regulation, you don't want to reduce the dose unless kitty drops below 50 or if the caregiver has to work too hard to keep kitty above 50. tight regulation focuses on nadirs and ignores the fluctuations in bg numbers due to bounces from numbers the body is not used to.
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +7.5(62)

Good to see you, Carl! Yeah, guess Hershey missed those all-nighters. ;-) But, bless his heart, he got confused because this isn't Saturday night and you know how he loved to pull stuff on Saturday nights! :lol:

Jill - We thought his ideal weight was somewhere around 12-lb, but when he gained to 11.6 (I think it was.) we then thought ideal might be a little higher. He started losing weight in March and is now hovering 10.3 - 10.6 pounds. I had tried giving him 9-oz/day instead of 8, but he wouldn't eat it all. On the 12th, I increased his food to 8.5-oz and so far he's eating it all. I had been dividing his food evenly between his four meals. Tried dividing it a couple of different ways, but it didn't seem to change his numbers, so went back to evenly dividing. Certainly open to suggestions, though :-D

+7.5 (62)

Should I give another smackerel??? or do you think he's nadired??
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +3(253) +6(106) +7(76)

once you have more data, we can come up with a good feeding plan. good to know feeding extra right now won't contribute to a weight problem. :mrgreen:

+7.5 62 --- still dropping, but not too much. you have a couple of options here depending on whether you want to stay up or get some sleep soon.

you can give him another couple of teaspoons regular food and retest in 30 minutes.

or you can give him a teaspoon or two of hc gravy if he won't eat anymore or you want to get to bed sooner than later... and retest in 30 minutes.

if you're exhausted... you can give him some hc food and retest in 30 minutes. this should allow you to get some sleep very soon.
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +7.5(62)

Have only had to use higher carb food with him 3 or 4 times and karo only once (early on). Since his regular food usually brings him up, I'd rather stay up with him than have to feed higher carb. Gave him another ~1/4 or ~.25-oz, to which he said, "Thank you very much" with his mouth full. From here, the bowl appears empty, much to Oreo's disappointment.

Will retest at +8, which now is only ~:12 away

Yes, it has been awhile since a green. We had the one about a month ago, but I sure would like to see them more often than that.
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +7.5(62)

you know him better than anyone else. go with your gut.

i'll stick with you. i'm an hour behind you (CT). actually, staying up tonight has allowed me to get all sorts of things done in-between your spot checks!
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +7.5(62)

Back in January, Hershey was fond of green for a while, but he was kind enough to do this during daylight hours mostly. :-)
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +7.5(62)

ha! maybe he wants to try something new! :lol:

seriously, we could very well be seeing that marked response within the first couple cycles i talked about earlier.
since hershey hasn't seen green in awhile he'll probably bounce... good time to save on strips and get some sleep.
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57)

+8 (57) - Given ~1/4 meal or ~.25-oz - Reluctantly ate a bite or two and walked away. Think I'll go try to encourage him to eat...

Jill - Glad you're able to get something accomplished while waiting up with us. If I could clear some of these cobwebs, maybe I could, too. But, was up most of last night...
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57)

if he won't eat you could try some of the gravy from a can of hc. most kitties will lap it right up... all except mine that is. thankfully, she has an insatiable appetite and is super carb sensitive so lc does the trick every time.

see you in 30 minutes!
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57)

I got him to eat ~3/4 of it and surely what he's had so far will be kicking in soon. (So, guess he had ~3/16 meal so just over ~.13-oz?)

Yeah, I'm worried about the bounce to come. He is pretty fond of those and can take a couple of days to clear :YMSIGH:

Retest time is now ~:10 away
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57)

Libby,
This is something I think you'll actually enjoy with Lev and following a protocol. Much less worrying or wracking your brain about "dose". If he bounces, he bounces. Unless you see really low numbers, you just stick with the dose and test as needed. No more agonizing over shaving a tad, or adjusting a scale.
Carl
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +8.5(64)

+8.5 (64) - He seems to be holding pretty steady. So, I didn't give him any food - thinking the first of the extra should hit before I test at +9...should've already hit and be almost gone in fact....first extra was given 1.5 hours ago...

Yes, Carl, I think I may like that part. But, right now it's hard to wrap my head around...

Had made a deal with Doug that he could sleep uninterrupted; I'd do the +6 and he could do the +9...hmmm...doesn't sound like the smartest deal I've ever made. :lol:
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +8.5(64)

awesome! :mrgreen:
it's a slight rise, but it's a rise. let's hope he's seen nadir.
yeah, i think you got the short end of the deal...
see you at +9.
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +8.5(64)

But Doug will be thrilled to see a green!
Carl
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +8.5(64)

Yes, Carl, when Doug went to sleep Hershey was pink and he'll awaken to green, but he missed alllll the fun in between ;-)

Guess I'll go turn Doug's 5am alarm off. No need to wake him in :17 when I'm already up. Now, if Hershey is going to run us past +9/5am, Doug's on his own.

Jill - I sooo appreciate your help, but I hate for you to have to sit up with us. I know you must be tired. If you need to leave us, just give me some 'what if' kind of instructions and get some sleep. K?
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +8.5(64)

Oh, and am I right in thinking we're keeping the same dose at 8am? or are we reducing? Thought I'd go ahead and ask since it's just over 3 hours away. Have to leave him shortly after shot time and run down the vet's. Don't know if you caught my thread in HEALTH or not, but she want to see the syringes we're using, not familiar with half-unit ones. Shouldn't take me long, but with round trip it'll be...maybe 1.5 hours?
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +8.5(64)

thanks for thinking of me, but i'm good to go. i had planned on staying up with you for as long as necessary tonight.
hey, maybe alex will get shot on time this morning just because i'll still be up! :lol:
i've been shooting an awful lot of +13amps/+11pmps lately... hangs head in shame.
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +8.5(64)

Wow, I just noticed Hershey did all this on a puny .5u dose!
Carl
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +8.5(64)

Doug N Libby said:
Oh, and am I right in thinking we're keeping the same dose at 8am? or are we reducing? Thought I'd go ahead and ask since it's just over 3 hours away. Have to leave him shortly after shot time and run down the vet's. Don't know if you caught my thread in HEALTH or not, but she want to see the syringes we're using, not familiar with half-unit ones. Shouldn't take me long, but with round trip it'll be...maybe 1.5 hours?
Click to expand...
technically, if you've made the decision to work towards tight regulation and hershey doesn't drop below 50 yet this cycle... you would hold the dose.
however, IF you think it was too difficult to keep him above 50... take a reduction. you can either shave the dose or reduce to 0.25 unit.
although, if hershey is red by amps time, i'd be inclined to hold the dose at 0.5u for at least one more cycle (shoot through the bounce)... if taking a reduction is what you have in mind.

even if this was a one time marked response, we could always work the dose back up if necessary.
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +8.5(64)

Carl - I know there are a lot of factors involved, but it sure seems he notices a difference in every .1u.

Jill - Glad to have the company, but didn't want you to be worn out tomorrow...today...
I didn't think it difficult to keep him above (50) as he was willing to sacrifice and eat that extra food - What a trooper!

Sorry, not quite sure what you meant -
Jill & Alex said:
even if this was a one time marked response, we could always work the dose back up if necessary.
Click to expand...

+9 brb
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +9(76)

+9 (76)

So, even if PS is low, hold .5u? When should we test again? He seems to be rising, but could finally be the food...so not sure if should wait until shot time to test, again. He's fat and happy right now and would be happy not to be poked until shot time.

Glad Alex might get her shot on time; Hershey's glad to help a beautiful girl!
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +9(76)

some kitties respond really, really well within the first few cycles of starting lantus or levemir. almost too well, but it doesn't hold long term. it doesn't happen with every kitty, but it happens often enough for us to have taken notice. we don't know why it happens. it just does.

we suggest a reduction and then end up having to take the dose back up.

make sense? my brain is beginning to get cobwebs, too.
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +9(76)

Jill,
With prozinc we'd advise a +11 to make sure the +12 is a rising number... is that as critical with Lev?
Carl
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +9(76)

Doug N Libby said:
+9 (76)

So, even if PS is low, hold .5u? When should we test again? He seems to be rising, but could finally be the food...so not sure if should wait until shot time to test, again. He's fat and happy right now and would be happy not to be poked until shot time.

Glad Alex might get her shot on time; Hershey's glad to help a beautiful girl!
Click to expand...

if the ps is low (less than 150 or thereabouts), i would either stall for a higher number or shoot a token dose because as of now you don't have enough data collected to comfortably shoot a full dose. eventually you will. you just don't have it yet.

if hershey were mine, i'd retest in an hour... this won't always be the case. it's just because he's new to lev. we can't predict what he'll do yet.
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +9(76)

I think I understand what you're saying. Seems I read an 'argument' somewhere on here about how it's better for the kitty to stick with it, if possible, rather than reducing and ending up back at the dose later. So used to looking at PS that I'm having a hard time kind of disregarding it if it's low.

So, do you think we're okay until shot time?
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +9(76)

Carl & Bob in SC said:
Jill,
With prozinc we'd advise a +11 to make sure the +12 is a rising number... is that as critical with Lev?
Carl
Click to expand...

i love +10s or +11s because they not only tell you if kitty is on the rise at shot time, but they also give you a good indication of the rate of the rise.
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +9(76)

Sorry - guess we were posting at the same time. I'll be happy to retest in what is now :45
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +9(76)

Doug N Libby said:
I think I understand what you're saying. Seems I read an 'argument' somewhere on here about how it's better for the kitty to stick with it, if possible, rather than reducing and ending up back at the dose later. So used to looking at PS that I'm having a hard time kind of disregarding it if it's low.

So, do you think we're okay until shot time?
Click to expand...

if you're comfortable with the tight regulation protocol, yes... sticking with the dose works out better in the long run. however, i want to stress... this isn't a race. there's nothing wrong with taking a reduction while you get your feet wet.

i'd test at +10... just to make sure he's on the rise.
sorry...
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +9(76)

yep. we were cross posting.
and i don't know how to type so it takes me forever to type out a message. :lol:
two classes. two failures. my last instructor told me to make enough money so i could hire a secretary!
 
Re: 6/13 Hershey's PMPS(357) +7(76) +8(57) +9(76)

Jill & Alex said:
yep. we were cross posting.
and i don't know how to type so it takes me forever to type out a message. :lol:
two classes. two failures. my last instructor told me to make enough money so i could hire a secretary!
Click to expand...

I took one typing class in high school, worked clerical for several years (Never achieved my sister's rate of like 110 or something ridiculous like that, was happy with my 76 wpm.) but since the increasing popularity of computers and being home 18 years, I've lost some of the speed. I do, from time to time, play typing games on the computer just to see where I am speed-wise.

What an encouraging instructor. Kind of like my driver's ed teacher who said I drive better in reverse! :lol: Well, were you able to make enough money to hire a secretary? And, at least with computers it's easier to correct mistakes! I sooo remember using carbon paper and a having to scrape off the mistakes with a razor blade. Wouldn't be allowed to hand out those weapons in schools now! :lol:
 
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