6/02 Merlin PMPS 394,299@+1,257@+1.5, 223 @+2,184@+3,140@+4,122@+5, 151@+6

Merlin’sMama

Merlin’sMama

Member Since 2022
AMPS 340. Hello. Four and a half hours of sleep. Pm cycle good, but ran so late. I need to move our time soon. Merlin in good spirits, as usual.
 
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Merlin’sMama said:
Ate 1/2 a can of 5.7%, but he usually comes back and gets some more. I will update when he does. Shot given
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He came back for more, but decided he didn’t like that one. It was challenging to get him to eat the first lot. So I gave him half a can of 7.5 to make up for the half of 5.7 he didn’t eat. He wolfed that down. The total weight of the food (two halves together) is 73 g. The total calories of the two types mixed together is 73 g. I cant figure the carbs. Too early.
 
Merlin’sMama said:
He came back for more, but decided he didn’t like that one. It was challenging to get him to eat the first lot. So I gave him half a can of 7.5 to make up for the half of 5.7 he didn’t eat. He wolfed that down. The total weight of the food (two halves together) is 73 g. The total calories of the two types mixed together is 73 g. I cant figure the carbs. Too early.
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That’s fine. They are both low carb and that’s what matters. I’m glad he ate more for you.
 
Merlin’sMama said:
I dont know how to judge what is fast and what is slow with these numbers.
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Merlin’sMama said:
Slow the drop
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Merlin’sMama said:
And keep him from bouncing
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We know he can drop quickly in the first few hours. But we also know that every cycle is different.
So we have to look at every cycle as it is happening and to also use what we have learned from previous cycles.
Yes you are correct….if we fed him now and gave 15% carbs, it would slow the drop. But do we want to slow the drop at the moment and maybe slow the drop too much.?
I would not feed at the moment and test at +2.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
We know he can drop quickly in the first few hours. But we also know that every cycle is different.
So we have to look at every cycle as it is happening and to also use what we have learned from previous cycles.
Yes you are correct….if we fed him now and gave 15% carbs, it would slow the drop. But do we want to slow the drop at the moment and maybe slow the drop too much.?
I would not feed at the moment and test at +2.
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Ok. I dont have a handle on how many points at what rate is too fast.
 
Also I get confused looking at the world versus the US point system. In the world he has dropped so little (15.8 to 14.1) but in the us he has dropped 30 points. I guess I need to focus on the US and what 30 points means compared to 100 etc.
 
Merlin’sMama said:
Ok. I dont have a handle on how many points at what rate is too fast.
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Merlin’sMama said:
I dont know how to judge what is too fast and too much
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In the beginning it is hard, that is why we are helping you. As we go along, we can help you to learn what is normal for Merlin and what it too fast. It takes time so don’t get disheartened. Every cat is different (ECID).
I found with Sheba if she dropped more than about 80 points in an hour, she would bounce. Sometimes it was a bit more like 100
Points. She also did the big drops in the early part of the cycles. Look at his spreadsheet and the BGs and see how he’s drops in different cycles. Don’t stress about it. I am just asking you, not because I am trying to trick you or expect you to know, but I am trying to help you learn.
 
Merlin’sMama said:
Also I get confused looking at the world versus the US point system. In the world he has dropped so little (15.8 to 14.1) but in the us he has dropped 30 points. I guess I need to focus on the US and what 30 points means compared to 100 etc.
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I know, it is confusing when you have to deal with both sets of numbers. I found the same thing. I am so used to the US numbers now, the worlds numbers are the foreign ones:eek:
 
I have a question now about carbs and calories. Merlin is all bones and needs to gain weight. We have calculated that he needs 270 calories in a day in order to start gaining weight and getting healthy. On average, he has been eating 215 calories a day, including his very small afternoon snacks, which leaves 55 calories he still needs, which is about 2/3 of a pouch of something, whether its low or higher carb. So after his nadir (@+4), when he is surfing or gradually going back up at +5 or +6, we would like to feed the rest of the required calories, as long as it is before the 2-hour-no-food time before the next shot. We can split up the 1/2 or 2/3 of a pouch over that time, which could be three feedings of four spoons at a time, or even three spoons, depending on the calories. This question is so important to us, I am trying really hard to word it so it is clear. We need to know how he is going to get the calories he needs.
 
Merlin’sMama said:
which leaves 55 calories he still needs, which is about 2/3 of a pouch of something, whether its low or higher carb.
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Have you thought of getting a timed feeder so you can leave some food out for him during the night so he doesn’t have to eat it all during the day?
Once his BG come back down to more normal numbers he will start to put on more weight. Sheba was very thin when diagnosed and she eventually put back on all the weight and muscle.
Also once he has settled down ….and he seems to be doing that I think …….he will be able to have 2 snacks during each cycle.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Have you thought of getting a timed feeder so you can leave some food out for him during the night so he doesn’t have to eat it all during the day?
Once his BG come back down to more normal numbers he will start to put on more weight. Sheba was very thin when diagnosed and she eventually put back on all the weight and muscle.
Also once he has settled down ….and he seems to be doing that I think …….he will be able to have 2 snacks during each cycle.
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So in this experimental phase he has been getting his snacks before nadir. Once he settles down, you are saying, his snacks will be after his nadir?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Have you thought of getting a timed feeder so you can leave some food out for him during the night so he doesn’t have to eat it all during the day?
Once his BG come back down to more normal numbers he will start to put on more weight. Sheba was very thin when diagnosed and she eventually put back on all the weight and muscle.
Also once he has settled down ….and he seems to be doing that I think …….he will be able to have 2 snacks during each cycle.
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Yes. I bought some timed feeders at Lidl that we have to check out. This would require me to lock him in a seperate room from his two sisters, one of whom will Hoover up any amount of food any time of day, and the other of whom doesn’t care at all for wet food and only licks the juice off(she is another story altogether). It is becoming VERY clear to me, that we need to move his shot times to a much earlier time of day, especially since staying up til 430am this morning and getting up at 9. I am concerned that if we do this, you wouldn’t be able to help us, though, so maybe we need to wait until this is all more steady? Or maybe, even tonight, we could move to 930 as opposed to 10, as a start. But will this mess with Merlin since he’s just starting to get a handle on things? Sorry, I really pack the questions in, dont I?
 
Merlin’sMama said:
I have a question now about carbs and calories. Merlin is all bones and needs to gain weight. We have calculated that he needs 270 calories in a day in order to start gaining weight and getting healthy. On average, he has been eating 215 calories a day, including his very small afternoon snacks, which leaves 55 calories he still needs, which is about 2/3 of a pouch of something, whether its low or higher carb. So after his nadir (@+4), when he is surfing or gradually going back up at +5 or +6, we would like to feed the rest of the required calories, as long as it is before the 2-hour-no-food time before the next shot. We can split up the 1/2 or 2/3 of a pouch over that time, which could be three feedings of four spoons at a time, or even three spoons, depending on the calories. This question is so important to us, I am trying really hard to word it so it is clear. We need to know how he is going to get the calories he needs.
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Hi Jill
Would it be possible to get Merlin to eat a little more breakfast and supper, say 15, 20 or 25 grams of Little Big Paw Atlantic tuna mousse or high calorie food each meal as i have noticed he's still only eating about 3/4 of his preshot meals, the little extra food will take him up to just about his requirements.
15 grams extra each meal = 252 cals daily, 20 grams extra each meal = 264 cals daily and 25 grams each meal = 276 cals daily.
Mix and match if you have to, we do that regular with Duke.
Edit, i forgot to add that the 270 cals daily is a guide line, Duke only eats 255 cals to maintain his 6 kilo weight
 
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Merlin’sMama said:
Yes. I bought some timed feeders at Lidl that we have to check out. This would require me to lock him in a seperate room from his two sisters, one of whom will Hoover up any amount of food any time of day, and the other of whom doesn’t care at all for wet food and only licks the juice off(she is another story altogether). It is becoming VERY clear to me, that we need to move his shot times to a much earlier time of day, especially since staying up til 430am this morning and getting up at 9. I am concerned that if we do this, you wouldn’t be able to help us, though, so maybe we need to wait until this is all more steady? Or maybe, even tonight, we could move to 930 as opposed to 10, as a start. But will this mess with Merlin since he’s just starting to get a handle on things? Sorry, I really pack the questions in, dont I?
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I think moving to an earlier time is a very good move. You can’t keep up this pace with those terrible hours. You won’t be any use to Merlin or anyone. You can move 30 minutes a day or 15 minutes each cycle. It won’t mess up Merlin. I can still help you if you move the times to an earlier time slot.
Merlin’sMama said:
220@+3. Super slow now…
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Yes he has slowed right down and he hasn’t been given any food since the preshot meal.
I would test at +4 and give him a snack of low carb (under 4%) at +4
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I think moving to an earlier time is a very good move. You can’t keep up this pace with those terrible hours. You won’t be any use to Merlin or anyone. You can move 30 minutes a day or 15 minutes each cycle. It won’t mess up Merlin. I can still help you if you move the times to an earlier time slot.

Yes he has slowed right down and he hasn’t been given any food since the preshot meal.
I would test at +4 and give him a snack of low carb (under 4%) at +4
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How big should the snack be?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I think moving to an earlier time is a very good move. You can’t keep up this pace with those terrible hours. You won’t be any use to Merlin or anyone. You can move 30 minutes a day or 15 minutes each cycle. It won’t mess up Merlin. I can still help you if you move the times to an earlier time slot.

Yes he has slowed right down and he hasn’t been given any food since the preshot meal.
I would test at +4 and give him a snack of low carb (under 4%) at +4
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So we should only move 15 minutes per cycle, making tonight’s shoot time, our time, 9:45, correct? And then tomorrow morning, we can move it another 15 minutes? Making tomorrow morning’s shoot time 9:30, correct?
 
Merlin’sMama said:
So we should only move 15 minutes per cycle, making tonight’s shoot time, our time, 9:45, correct? And then tomorrow morning, we can move it another 15 minutes? Making tomorrow morning’s shoot time 9:30, correct?
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You can do it either way. Whatever suits you best. Those times you say are correct though

Merlin’sMama said:
How big should the snack be?
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I would give a good teaspoon of the low carb.
 
Teetee (UK) said:
Hi Jill
Would it be possible to get Merlin to eat a little more breakfast and supper, say 15, 20 or 25 grams of Little Big Paw Atlantic tuna mousse or high calorie food each meal as i have noticed he's still only eating about 3/4 of his preshot meals, the little extra food will take him up to just about his requirements.
15 grams extra each meal = 252 cals daily, 20 grams extra each meal = 264 cals daily and 25 grams each meal = 276 cals daily.
Mix and match if you have to, we do that regular with Duke.
Edit, i forgot to add that the 270 cals daily is a guide line, Duke only eats 255 cals to maintain his 6 kilo weight
Click to expand...
If it is ok for this experimental phase, we will try to increase the breakfast and supper meals. He tends to walk away and then come back 5 or 10 minutes later and eat more. Cats are so weird. Would they do that in the wilderness? I doubt it. So we can try to feed him a little more, but if he doesn’t like or is tired of the food, he wont eat a whole pack, let alone a pack and a half.
 
Merlin’sMama said:
If it is ok for this experimental phase, we will try to increase the breakfast and supper meals. He tends to walk away and then come back 5 or 10 minutes later and eat more. Cats are so weird. Would they do that in the wilderness? I doubt it. So we can try to feed him a little more, but if he doesn’t like or is tired of the food, he wont eat a whole pack, let alone a pack and a half.
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Coming back a bit later is fine. Lots of cats do that. It isn’t necessary to eat it all at once.
What usually happens is the daily food allocation is divided into two equal lots……the am food and the pm food.
Then each of the two allocations are divided into the main preshot meal and two or three snacks to be given during each cycle.
We should be able to start that soon.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Coming back a bit later is fine. Lots of cats do that. It isn’t necessary to eat it all at once.
What usually happens is the daily food allocation is divided into two equal lots……the am food and the pm food.
Then each of the two allocations are divided into the main preshot meal and two or three snacks to be given during each cycle.
We should be able to start that soon.
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When we start the snacks, that will be after nadir, right?
 
Merlin’sMama said:
When we start the snacks, that will be after nadir, right?
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Do you mean when you change to the allocated food schedule I mentioned above in post 46?
If so…no …..most people feed a preshot meal and then snacks at +3 and +5 or +3 and +6 Or +2 and +5 or something similar. Some people give an extra snack around +7.
Giving snacks to stop big drops and around nadir is an example of times you can give the snacks.
We can help you work out when would be the most beneficial times soon.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Do you mean when you change to the allocated food schedule I mentioned above in post 46?
If so…no …..most people feed a preshot meal and then snacks at +3 and +5 or +3 and +6 Or +2 and +5 or something similar. Some people give an extra snack around +7.
Giving snacks to stop big drops and around nadir is an example of times you can give the snacks.
We can help you work out when would be the most beneficial times soon.
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Thank you. I understand that we can only work this snacking schedule out when Merlin’s body has fully adjusted. I am just concerned about feeding him enough today and tomorrow and however much longer we are in the experimental phase. It’s a little worrying that, when or if a dosage increases, this whole experiment will have to happen all over again, but that’s a whole nuther story, I bet.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Do you mean when you change to the allocated food schedule I mentioned above in post 46?
If so…no …..most people feed a preshot meal and then snacks at +3 and +5 or +3 and +6 Or +2 and +5 or something similar. Some people give an extra snack around +7.
Giving snacks to stop big drops and around nadir is an example of times you can give the snacks.
We can help you work out when would be the most beneficial times soon.
Click to expand...
I suppose when you give the snacks it also has to do with when your cat’s nadir is. I am just uncertain as to what is happening in Merlin’s body when he is surfing and then when climbing back up. Is he processing his PS meal then? Would it hurt him/ruin his process to feed him at that point? Is there any info on the process, what exactly the body is doing during nadir and surfing, and how that relates to BG, processing PS meal into sugar his body can use, and processing any new snacks that might be given?
 
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