5/11, Susie, 230 AMPS, 192 @+2, 117 @3.50, 87 @+4, 81 @4.5

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...ps-278-2-can-i-go-to-bed.247180/#post-2788286

First of all, a big "shout out" to @Cherryl & Mouzer for passing the OTJ trial! Hope it holds for you both!

Question: Does anyone know where the reference ranges come from that are "built in" to our spreadsheets?

2nd Question: Is TR ever allowed to be modified? I may be wrong but it seems like I have seen some very experienced people on this site slightly modify TR. Maybe it is just an earlier increase. Suzanne and I were talking about this yesterday.

Hope everyone has a nice day. Looks like my day may be a little less exciting.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

@Suzanne & Darcy Thanks so much for the information on the additional blood test with no reference ranges. I think my vet has had it with me as he hasn't returned my call. Maybe he was out of the office. I'll probably hear from him today.

One more thing. Do those additional blood test, with no reference ranges, help identify where an infection might be regarding the high white blood cell count?

 

[Cherryl & Mouzer]

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...ps-278-2-can-i-go-to-bed.247180/#post-2788286

First of all, a big "shout out" to @Cherryl & Mouzer for passing the OTJ trial! Hope it holds for you both!

Question: Does anyone know where the reference ranges come from that are "built in" to our spreadsheets?

2nd Question: Is TR ever allowed to be modified? I may be wrong but it seems like I have seen some very experienced people on this site slightly modify TR. Maybe it is just an earlier increase. Suzanne and I were talking about this yesterday.

Hope everyone has a nice day. Looks like my day may be a little less exciting.

Thank You Summer lol I was not announcing Mouzer's OTJ because I did what people choose to see as a modification to TR, when in fact, what I did was use TR to fit the DIFFERENT Cat, which was most required, and when looking at Mouzer's SS, it is obvious that Mouzer is even a bit more different than the different cat and that had to be taken into account. Mouzer was a bit different than the different cat in 2017 and I did not allow anyone to force me into 'forgetting' Mouzer's History, and Mouzer has, in fact, repeated 'Mouzer's History' that I was told to forget about and not to speak of again.

And about your TR question - TR is a very good thing, but we do have to go by how we see a kitty is reacting to TR and make sure to stay on top of it and make necessary 'alterations'. We cannot be 'rule book sticklers' when we see a cat reacting not quite as we expected and we cannot hold onto pride, so much so, that we will stick to something proving not to be as we expected. We are to keep our cats safe and that does mean there may be, what could be considered as, 'modifications' to TR, when a TR Protocol is being stressed that is not fitting to the 'particular' cat. I do not see that as modification to TR.
I see it as that I kept my cat safe, as it is my responsibility to do so.

We have to use 'our cat's history', and utilize that information and make alterations when needed. The alterations I had to do for Mouzer on TR were changing dose when needed and if that meant right now, it meant right now, and not fighting day and night, day and night, to keep Mouzer out of his 'long term diabetic TR Protocol for the 30's', And doing more than an 0.25 change to dose, when needed - And Mouzer's SS is proof that I am no blithering idiot hahaha

Know Thy Cat - Know Thy Cat's History -
Do take note on the 'THY CAT' lol That means it is 'YOUR CAT' - not 'theirs'.
It IS Your Cat - You DO hold the syringe - You ARE in control. You ARE the boss
Learn EVERYTHING you can and apply it to 'Your Cat'.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Yes. In a manner of speaking not the location of the infection but the various components of the white count - the types of white cells - can give them an indication as to what’s going on, e.g., is it infection, inflammation, the stress of long term illness, excitement, bone marrow problems, cancer, etc.

Give me a bit, I am going to send you an excellent article that will help you on this.
Good morning!

 

[carfurby (GA)]

I hope Susie keeps sliding down and surfs safely today. It is not recommended to modify TR because there are safety protocols build into it.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

87 @+4. Fed 1/4 can l/c.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Each lab has its own reference ranges. If your cat is within the range it’s likely that there is not an infection but worth rechecking if symptoms suggest an infection. My vet usually says to recheck in a month, sooner if the cat isn’t well. As for ranges on the ss they are for IDEXX and Antech in the US.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

Thank You Summer lol I was not announcing Mouzer's OTJ because I did what people choose to see as a modification to TR, when in fact, what I did was use TR to fit the DIFFERENT Cat, which was most required, and when looking at Mouzer's SS, it is obvious that Mouzer is even a bit more different than the different cat and that had to be taken into account. Mouzer was a bit different than the different cat in 2017 and I did not allow anyone to force me into 'forgetting' Mouzer's History, and Mouzer has, in fact, repeated 'Mouzer's History' that I was told to forget about and not to speak of again.

And about your TR question - TR is a very good thing, but we do have to go by how we see a kitty is reacting to TR and make sure to stay on top of it and make necessary 'alterations'. We cannot be 'rule book sticklers' when we see a cat reacting not quite as we expected and we cannot hold onto pride, so much so, that we will stick to something proving not to be as we expected. We are to keep our cats safe and that does mean there may be, what could be considered as, 'modifications' to TR, when a TR Protocol is being stressed that is not fitting to the 'particular' cat. I do not see that as modification to TR.
I see it as that I kept my cat safe, as it is my responsibility to do so.

We have to use 'our cat's history', and utilize that information and make alterations when needed. The alterations I had to do for Mouzer on TR were changing dose when needed and if that meant right now, it meant right now, and not fighting day and night, day and night, to keep Mouzer out of his 'long term diabetic TR Protocol for the 30's', And doing more than an 0.25 change to dose, when needed - And Mouzer's SS is proof that I am no blithering idiot hahaha

Know Thy Cat - Know Thy Cat's History -
Do take note on the 'THY CAT' lol That means it is 'YOUR CAT' - not 'theirs'.
It IS Your Cat - You DO hold the syringe - You ARE in control. You ARE the boss
Learn EVERYTHING you can and apply it to 'Your Cat'.

I apologize for announcing Mouzer's remission. It was not my place to do so but I was so proud of you! Unconventional as you can be. I agree that we have to do the very best for our cats because we know them best. I will follow whatever protocols I choose but if I ever really question something I will ask about it. Do you want me to delete the post of Mouzer's remission. Sorry I did not get back sooner. Was trying to get some yard work in between test.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

Yes. In a manner of speaking not the location of the infection but the various components of the white count - the types of white cells - can give them an indication as to what’s going on, e.g., is it infection, inflammation, the stress of long term illness, excitement, bone marrow problems, cancer, etc.

Give me a bit, I am going to send you an excellent article that will help you on this.
Good morning!

Thanks so much, Suzanne. Sorry I didn't get back sooner.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

I hope Susie keeps sliding down and surfs safely today. It is not recommended to modify TR because there are safety protocols build into it.

Thanks, Carla. I wasn't thinking about doing that but just thought I had seen a few folks who had.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

Each lab has its own reference ranges. If your cat is within the range it’s likely that there is not an infection but worth rechecking if symptoms suggest an infection. My vet usually says to recheck in a month, sooner if the cat isn’t well. As for ranges on the ss they are for IDEXX and Antech in the US.

Good to know because my vet does use Antech when he sends the blood "off site". I entered what I had from the "in house" report and noted their reference ranges to the side. I have had a senior panel in December, March and April. Just did the mini-chem. It is getting expensive to do this every month. Just frustrated with the high white blood cell count. I am happy the ALT went down. I wonder if the milk thistle (which I only add to food in the pm) is helping her liver values.

 

[Bandit's Mom]

87 @+4. Fed 1/4 can l/c.

What is your normal feeding schedule? Some people have benefited from breaking up their PS meal into three (PS, +1 and +2). Helps prevents dives on onset.
Feeding a spoon at each test subsequently is usually enough.

There is no hard and fast rule though. It's all trial and error and what works for your kitty.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

What is your normal feeding schedule? Some people have benefited from breaking up their PS meal into three (PS, +1 and +2). Helps prevents dives on onset.
Feeding a spoon at each test subsequently is usually enough.

There is no hard and fast rule though. It's all trial and error and what works for your kitty.

My normal feeding schedule is one 3 oz can of l/c at AMPS then 1/2 can around +6. Then 1 3oz can at PMPS, 1/2 can around +2or+3 and maybe 1/2 can around +5. I'm glad you came on-board. I have a question. I gave her about 1/4 can of l/c when she first hit green (87) at +4. I tested again +4.50 and got 81 but did not feed again because it seemed she had leveled off. Should I have given more food or wait to see how she does at +5? Her nadir is usually around +6 so If I can keep her in safe green numbers at least through then then she will probably start to go up and I will give her regular lunch (1/2 can l/c) at that time.

 

[Bandit's Mom]

You can wait to see where she is at +5 and feed another spoon of LC then.

Rather than feed only twice per cycle, it would make sense to feed smaller meals in the first part of the cycle and only a little snack after the nadir.

 

[Bandit's Mom]

I'm going to tag @PerfumedCatMom and @JaxBenji who are the experts on feeding the curve

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

You can wait to see where she is at +5 and feed another spoon of LC then.

Rather than feed only twice per cycle, it would make sense to feed smaller meals in the first part of the cycle and only a little snack after the nadir.

She really likes her full can at AMPS and PMPS so I would want to continue that. Then, maybe 1/2 can at +2, 1/2 can at +4 and then 1/2 can at +6. Does this sound okay or like it is too much food.

 

[FrostD]

Looks like you might be hitting a breakthrough dose for her!

As for food...the important thing is that she'll still eat midcycle if needed. Where's her weight at? I remember that was a bit of a struggle. It looks like she usually onsets by +2 (or even sooner), so I'd be tempted to do smaller feed at +1, and make the PS meal a little smaller so she'll eat the +1

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

84 @+5. Fed 1/4 can l/c. Will hold off on any more testing until +6. She seems to have leveled off nicely.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Good to know because my vet does use Antech when he sends the blood "off site". I entered what I had from the "in house" report and noted their reference ranges to the side. I have had a senior panel in December, March and April. Just did the mini-chem. It is getting expensive to do this every month. Just frustrated with the high white blood cell count. I am happy the ALT went down. I wonder if the milk thistle (which I only add to food in the pm) is helping her liver values.

The white count is normal and I would not be concerned. I prefer labs sent out as the machines are always properly calibrated. The difference in price at my expensive vet isn’t much different last time I asked.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

Looks like you might be hitting a breakthrough dose for her!

As for food...the important thing is that she'll still eat midcycle if needed. Where's her weight at? I remember that was a bit of a struggle. It looks like she usually onsets by +2 (or even sooner), so I'd be tempted to do smaller feed at +1, and make the PS meal a little smaller so she'll eat the +1

Okay, so maybe 1/2 can at PS and the other half at +1? I don't think I'll have a problem with her eating. She is almost always hungry. Her weight as of last Saturday was 13.9. Two weeks prior to that she was at 12.96 and 2 weeks prior to that she was 13.7. It has been bouncing a bit. I don't know what her ideal weight should be because I haven't read the sticky. One of my vets told me in March that she should be down to 10 lbs. I do not agree. I would be pretty happy if she were around 12 to 12.5 lbs.

 

[tiffmaxee]

The average female cat should weigh no more than 10-12 pounds. Max was large and should not have weighed more than 14 pounds. He got up to 16 pounds. I couldn’t get him down. My two girls are small and need to weigh no more than 9 pounds. Can you feel her ribs? It sounds like she needs to lose weight. You don’t want the weight to keep increasing. I would feed a little less and spread out the food.
Catinfo.org has a formula for weight loss. I helped a friend’s cat lose several pounds safely following it.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

The white count is normal and I would not be concerned. I prefer labs sent out as the machines are always properly calibrated. The difference in price at my expensive vet isn’t much different last time I asked.

Thank you. The fact that it has risen from 11 in December to 8.4 in March to 17.4 in April (all with Antech) to 18.23 on 5/8 (in house lab) has me concerned.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Each lab has its own reference ranges. If your cat is within the range it’s likely that there is not an infection but worth rechecking if symptoms suggest an infection. My vet usually says to recheck in a month, sooner if the cat isn’t well. As for ranges on the ss they are for IDEXX and Antech in the US.

Yes. My vet usually says to recheck in a month also, unless cat is really not well. There are some changes to bloodwork that will not show up if you re-test too soon -- what I mean is that there won't be enough of a change to determine if there is significant change in the bw/the cat's condition.

I think that IDEXX has updated a lot of their ranges (2020) I spent a ton of time yesterday filling in a spreadsheet for Darcy's bloodwork going back to June 2020 (when he was diagnosed) and the SS template already had the IDEXX values in there pre-filled (I thought it would be easy) but I had to update a lot of the reference intervals manually to bring them up to date.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

@Suzanne & Darcy Thanks so much for the information on the additional blood test with no reference ranges. I think my vet has had it with me as he hasn't returned my call. Maybe he was out of the office. I'll probably hear from him today.

One more thing. Do those additional blood test, with no reference ranges, help identify where an infection might be regarding the high white blood cell count?

Okay, Summer. Here is a link to one of the best articles that I have found on how to interpret your cat's blood work. It is by "The Meowing Vet," I hope this helps. Happy reading!

https://themeowingvet.com/2016/09/09/smarty-pants-interpret-pets-bloodwork/

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

The average female cat should weigh no more than 10-12 pounds. Max was large and should not have weighed more than 14 pounds. He got up to 16 pounds. I couldn’t get him down. My two girls are small and need to weigh no more than 9 pounds. Can you feel her ribs? It sounds like she needs to lose weight. You don’t want the weight to keep increasing. I would feed a little less and spread out the food.
Catinfo.org has a formula for weight loss. I helped a friend’s cat lose several pounds safely following it.

No I don't feel her ribs. I think she gained weight the last two weeks because I have been feeding her a lot at night. Will let up a little on that. Also, she is not an active cat. Thanks for the link.

 

[Our Dolly Girl (GA)]

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...ps-278-2-can-i-go-to-bed.247180/#post-2788286

First of all, a big "shout out" to @Cherryl & Mouzer for passing the OTJ trial! Hope it holds for you both!

Question: Does anyone know where the reference ranges come from that are "built in" to our spreadsheets?

2nd Question: Is TR ever allowed to be modified? I may be wrong but it seems like I have seen some very experienced people on this site slightly modify TR. Maybe it is just an earlier increase. Suzanne and I were talking about this yesterday.

Hope everyone has a nice day. Looks like my day may be a little less exciting.

Good Morning Summer. Susie is certainly off in the right direction. Surf safely sweet Susie Summer have a great hopefully not too much drama day.

 

[FrostD]

Okay, so maybe 1/2 can at PS and the other half at +1? I don't think I'll have a problem with her eating. She is almost always hungry. Her weight as of last Saturday was 13.9. Two weeks prior to that she was at 12.96 and 2 weeks prior to that she was 13.7. It has been bouncing a bit. I don't know what her ideal weight should be because I haven't read the sticky. One of my vets told me in March that she should be down to 10 lbs. I do not agree. I would be pretty happy if she were around 12 to 12.5 lbs.

Gotcha. You have a baby scale if I remember correctly, keep in mind that a meal/drink/litterbox timing can vary things by up to half a pound. When my daughter was little we had some trouble, so I always tried to weigh consistently (such as right after a poop + meal)

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

Yes. My vet usually says to recheck in a month also, unless cat is really not well. There are some changes to bloodwork that will not show up if you re-test too soon -- what I mean is that there won't be enough of a change to determine if there is significant change in the bw/the cat's condition.

I think that IDEXX has updated a lot of their ranges (2020) I spent a ton of time yesterday filling in a spreadsheet for Darcy's bloodwork going back to June 2020 (when he was diagnosed) and the SS template already had the IDEXX values in there pre-filled (I thought it would be easy) but I had to update a lot of the reference intervals manually to bring them up to date.

Where did you get the info to update the spread sheet lab reference ranges?

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

Okay, Summer. Here is a link to one of the best articles that I have found on how to interpret your cat's blood work. It is by "The Meowing Vet," I hope this helps. Happy reading!

https://themeowingvet.com/2016/09/09/smarty-pants-interpret-pets-bloodwork/

Thanks so much for the link. I've saved it to my desktop and will look at it when I am not so tired. I usually try to get a short nap in in the morning but haven't been able to these last two days.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

Good Morning Summer. Susie is certainly off in the right direction. Surf safely sweet Susie Summer have a great hopefully not too much drama day.

Thank you so much, Adrienne! It is amazing how such a tiny increase in insulin seems to have really turned Susie around. I'm surprised that she did this two days in a row. I thought she would bounce today. Do you think she didn't bounce because her body is becoming more accustomed to these lower doses?

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

Gotcha. You have a baby scale if I remember correctly, keep in mind that a meal/drink/litterbox timing can vary things by up to half a pound. When my daughter was little we had some trouble, so I always tried to weigh consistently (such as right after a poop + meal)

I never would have thought about something like that but when you consider ounces it does make sense. Thanks, Melissa!

 

[Our Dolly Girl (GA)]

Thank you so much, Adrienne! It is amazing how such a tiny increase in insulin seems to have really turned Susie around. I'm surprised that she did this two days in a row. I thought she would bounce today. Do you think she didn't bounce because her body is becoming more accustomed to these lower doses?

I am no expert but when it comes to bouncing, sometimes Dolly does bounce as a reaction to low BG and sometimes she doesn’t. I haven’t been able to find any set rules for why and when they bounce. This is my expertise on bouncing. I do know that Susie is looking good and so happy for both of you.

 

[Adrienne & Molly (GA)]

Surf safely Susie enjoy your day Summer!

 

[Katherine&Ruby]

Re: reference ranges: My vets tend to use IDEXX so I've replaced the ranges on the spreadsheet labs template with those provided by the vet to make things easier.

She really likes her full can at AMPS and PMPS so I would want to continue that. Then, maybe 1/2 can at +2, 1/2 can at +4 and then 1/2 can at +6. Does this sound okay or like it is too much food.

If you're feeding FF, that sounds like 5 cans of food a day or 17.5 ounces a day, which seems like a lot. I feed Ruby about 6 ounces of food a day, even when she was eating Fancy Feast, and her ideal weight is 12 lbs. With the FF Turkey and Giblets, it's 84 calories a can so she was getting 2 cans and about 168 calories per day.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

Surf safely Susie enjoy your day Summer!

Thanks, Adrienne. It is a little nerve wracking when it is new territory.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

Re: reference ranges: My vets tend to use IDEXX so I've replaced the ranges on the spreadsheet labs template with those provided by the vet to make things easier.



If you're feeding FF, that sounds like 5 cans of food a day or 17.5 ounces a day, which seems like a lot. I feed Ruby about 6 ounces of food a day, even when she was eating Fancy Feast, and her ideal weight is 12 lbs. With the FF Turkey and Giblets, it's 84 calories a can so she was getting 2 cans and about 168 calories per day.

Two cans a day doesn't sound like much. Especially when I have been told to feed a little as soon as she hits green and then with each subsequent test in greens. Heck, I feed two cans just between AMPS and PMPS. I'll have to think about all of this.

 

[Our Dolly Girl (GA)]

Two cans a day doesn't sound like much. Especially when I have been told to feed a little as soon as she hits green and then with each subsequent test in greens. Heck, I feed two cans just between AMPS and PMPS. I'll have to think about all of this.

I believe the amount of food is based on the cats weight. I believe its 20 calories per pound. Dolly is a grazer and never finishes her food, I throw away a lotttt of food. I never know how much she eats because of this. I give her 1/2 can of Fancy Feast AMPS and refresh it with the other half over the next 3 hours. Then I start with another can. She is terribly spoiled. If she won’t eat the flavor I give her I try something else. She really only like two kinds of FF chicken and Friskies Turkey and giblets. No fish and beef makes her instantly sick. Her weight has been stable for years at 12.8#, a little chunky. Little exercise except when we can get her to play.

 

[Tina Marie (GA) and Jan]

If you're feeding FF, that sounds like 5 cans of food a day or 17.5 ounces a day, which seems like a lot. I feed Ruby about 6 ounces of food a day, even when she was eating Fancy Feast, and her ideal weight is 12 lbs. With the FF Turkey and Giblets, it's 84 calories a can so she was getting 2 cans and about 168 calories per day.

This is very much Tina . . . she eats 6 oz a day and stays within 2 oz of 12 lbs. I feed the same way I did when she was on insulin, which amounts to a "snack" six times a day. She's moving around quite a bit, jumping and running some, feeling fine for a sixteen year old kitty with arthritis.

Since feline diabetes is most similar to type 2 in people (very few T1 kitties), finding a good weight (lose if necessary) is important for finding a good metabolic balance and potentially coming off insulin easier.

It is GREAT to see Susie feeling some healthy numbers!!

 

[Katherine&Ruby]

Two cans a day doesn't sound like much. Especially when I have been told to feed a little as soon as she hits green and then with each subsequent test in greens. Heck, I feed two cans just between AMPS and PMPS. I'll have to think about all of this.

Whenever Ruby got low, I gave her .25 ounces of food to keep her hungry and surfing. Having a kitchen scale for weighing portions made things easier. Every cat is different and very caregiver and calorie calculator will tell you something different. Getting a baby scale and weighing regularly will tell you what you need to feed.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

I believe the amount of food is based on the cats weight. I believe its 20 calories per pound. Dolly is a grazer and never finishes her food, I throw away a lotttt of food. I never know how much she eats because of this. I give her 1/2 can of Fancy Feast AMPS and refresh it with the other half over the next 3 hours. Then I start with another can. She is terribly spoiled. If she won’t eat the flavor I give her I try something else. She really only like two kinds of FF chicken and Friskies Turkey and giblets. No fish and beef makes her instantly sick. Her weight has been stable for years at 12.8#, a little chunky. Little exercise except when we can get her to play.

I guess you don't feed every time she is in greens. Probably not because she is in safe greens a lot. I'll try to do 1/2 can at AMPS and then the other half around +1 (Melissa's recommendation). Then I will watch her. The way we are going right now, with these new greens, I think she is going to be getting more like 3 cans a day. I don't know what else to do at this point if I have to feed to keep her from tumbling.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

This is very much Tina . . . she eats 6 oz a day and stays within 2 oz of 12 lbs. I feed the same way I did when she was on insulin, which amounts to a "snack" six times a day. She's moving around quite a bit, jumping and running some, feeling fine for a sixteen year old kitty with arthritis.

Since feline diabetes is most similar to type 2 in people (very few T1 kitties), finding a good weight (lose if necessary) is important for finding a good metabolic balance and potentially coming off insulin easier.

It is GREAT to see Susie feeling some healthy numbers!!

Thanks so much, Jan. I guess I'll have to be bringing in more treats as Susie is used to more food and it is obviously not good for her because she does need to lose weight.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Where did you get the info to update the spread sheet lab reference ranges?

Oh, I got it from my lab report that I received from the vet. It had the reference intervals listed there. I just happened to notice that it was not the same as the pre-filled template that I was using. It was not the template on our FDMB Google docs spreadsheet. It was a spreadsheet template (in Excel) from a different group -- the CKD kidney support group, from whom I am trying to get some advice and trying to get somebody to look at his labs.

 

[Katherine&Ruby]

I used to feed Ruby at preshot, +2, +4, and +6. That’s 8 times a day! Now that she never plunges anymore I feed her less often BUT the same amount of food.

 

[Tina Marie (GA) and Jan]

Thanks so much, Jan. I guess I'll have to be bringing in more treats as Susie is used to more food and it is obviously not good for her because she does need to lose weight.

I just adore Susie as you know. Tina had gotten to "fluffy" or plump living at around 14 lbs, then 13 before diagnosis. Keeping her at 12 (even though 11.5 might be perfection) makes me feel we might get to stay off insulin.
Also - what encouraging news that there is improvement in the bloodwork Kisses to Ms. Susie

When you find a good food balance (a bit less and spaced magically), maybe insulin requirements could even go down!

 

[JaxBenji]

Looks like you've gotten lots of advice already and I think I've dropped off the catinfo.org site before but basically you need to work you way through that site. It starts with calculating the amount of calories (not ounces) you are currently feeding her, her starting weight (on your home scale), and then reduce the amount of calories (again, not necessarily ounces). I'm just emphasizing the ounces vs calories because just like human food (well, all food) it's about the calories and the quality of them not necessarily the quantity. Really - dive into the catinfo site and take charge you may also find the stories of the individual cats Dr. Pierson included interesting - https://catinfo.org/feline-obesity-an-epidemic-of-fat-cats/#Implementing_a_Safe_Weight-Loss_Program

As for feeding the curve, the idea is to feed the majority of food before nadir so that you maximize insulin duration. I took Jax's calories for the day (I used Dr. Piersons formula), divided it in two and fed half of his calories in his AM cycle and half in his PM cycle (yay auto feeders!) For each cycle, I feed half of those calories at PS time and then divided the remaining calories at +2/+4/+6. ECID. If Jax was having an active cycle, I'd feed small amount (think 1-2 teaspoons) of food to steer him (type of food would depend on his numbers); if I had fed him his calories for the cycle by +5 and he was surfing then I wouldn't feed again until his next PS. Some cycles, he did have more than his "usual" calories but those were the exceptions. Figuring out what works for you and Susie is basically an experiment...it took me months to figure it out for what worked for Jax (and to really take advantage of my auto-feeders...I used one for the AM and one for the PM so that I was no longer the autofeeder )

Lots of info and comments in this post - Using Food to Manipulate the Curve

Good luck!

 

[Cherryl & Mouzer]

I apologize for announcing Mouzer's remission. It was not my place to do so but I was so proud of you! Unconventional as you can be. I agree that we have to do the very best for our cats because we know them best. I will follow whatever protocols I choose but if I ever really question something I will ask about it. Do you want me to delete the post of Mouzer's remission. Sorry I did not get back sooner. Was trying to get some yard work in between test.

No need to apologize and it is ok if we speak of Mouzer's OTJ in the condos lol I am just not announcing it in a condo for Mouzer.
And Yes! When I speak of changing anything within the protocols, I do not mean it as do not follow the protocols. They are good.
But I do believe when we question, we need to follow our gut, and just because it may veer away from exact, strict protocol, does not mean we are modifying the protocol, it simply means we are using our gut and brain, when knowing what our cats have done in past.

TR would serve your Susie well, I do believe. But first, you are going to need to get over the fear of the greens.
I did get to where I did not fear a 68, unless that 68 fell on a +1, which it did for Mouzer one time, and I dumped the karo in and sent him to the blues and I used karo because Mouzer does not respond to food or honey like many others do. But no harm done, at least he did not go lime

With TR, it will require your night time testing that you do say you are not a part of. But if you could make yourself do it, it would be beneficial for Susie.
If you do not want Susie to even go into the 40's lime, you have to learn all you can learn, so you can know what to do. YOU must know what to do with Your Cat. And I will say that sometimes those limes are unavoidable, but I think we should try our best to prevent it, if possible, And that is what some will consider as modifying TR. I do not. I consider it as 'being very aware' and 'being very wise'.

And I did not care that Mouzer was a long term diabetic. I have history to show how Mouzer reacts to food and honey and I was not going to forget it, and that served well that I did not allow anyone to force me into forgetting it, and that is what was being attempted and no, I did not appreciate it. And because I did not appreciate that, I was accused of 'complaining and not being appreciative'. Interesting, I thought. With me, suggestions are welcomed and appreciated, orders are unwelcomed, unappreciated and will be refused. That has not one thing to do with 'appreciation'. One can be appreciative and still have a mind of their own to do what they know is best for their cat and for them too. Appreciation does not mean one must follow orders, and the two are not to be confused.

I am most appreciative to everyone on this forum, for their suggestions, their help and the push to shoot when I was too scared to shoot, and for all of the many stickies I have read, although I admit, I did not appreciate the fly by sticky drops into my condos that were speaking against what was already decided will take place. That was not being suggestive.
That was dropping off orders and not even coming back to respond to how I felt about those orders, meaning it was not cared what I felt, nor was it cared how that Mouzer's SS was showing I got no sleep, and I have a lot of work to do to be going around with no sleep, so that was not cared about either.

I was not being cared about, period, except by one person who had been with me all through my condos and saw what was taking place and they really did care. Those fly by order drops, coming from people who paid us no mind except to do fly by order drops and then having me pm'ed with gaslighting techniques, accusing me of complaining and not being appreiciative, when I spoke up, were taking nothing into consideration, except to fly by and drop those orders, expecting I keep my mouth shut about how I felt in regards to said orders. No! I do not appreciate that and no healthy minded person would.

All this aside, IF you can get yourself accustomed to allowing Susie to have green and too, realize you will have night time testing to do and be ok with doing that, TR would be great for Susie.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

I used to feed Ruby at preshot, +2, +4, and +6. That’s 8 times a day! Now that she never plunges anymore I feed her less often BUT the same amount of food.

How much were you feeding at preshot, +2, +4 and +6?

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

I just adore Susie as you know. Tina had gotten to "fluffy" or plump living at around 14 lbs, then 13 before diagnosis. Keeping her at 12 (even though 11.5 might be perfection) makes me feel we might get to stay off insulin.
Also - what encouraging news that there is improvement in the bloodwork Kisses to Ms. Susie

When you find a good food balance (a bit less and spaced magically), maybe insulin requirements could even go down!

Thanks, Jan.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

Looks like you've gotten lots of advice already and I think I've dropped off the catinfo.org site before but basically you need to work you way through that site. It starts with calculating the amount of calories (not ounces) you are currently feeding her, her starting weight (on your home scale), and then reduce the amount of calories (again, not necessarily ounces). I'm just emphasizing the ounces vs calories because just like human food (well, all food) it's about the calories and the quality of them not necessarily the quantity. Really - dive into the catinfo site and take charge you may also find the stories of the individual cats Dr. Pierson included interesting - https://catinfo.org/feline-obesity-an-epidemic-of-fat-cats/#Implementing_a_Safe_Weight-Loss_Program

As for feeding the curve, the idea is to feed the majority of food before nadir so that you maximize insulin duration. I took Jax's calories for the day (I used Dr. Piersons formula), divided it in two and fed half of his calories in his AM cycle and half in his PM cycle (yay auto feeders!) For each cycle, I feed half of those calories at PS time and then divided the remaining calories at +2/+4/+6. ECID. If Jax was having an active cycle, I'd feed small amount (think 1-2 teaspoons) of food to steer him (type of food would depend on his numbers); if I had fed him his calories for the cycle by +5 and he was surfing then I wouldn't feed again until his next PS. Some cycles, he did have more than his "usual" calories but those were the exceptions. Figuring out what works for you and Susie is basically an experiment...it took me months to figure it out for what worked for Jax (and to really take advantage of my auto-feeders...I used one for the AM and one for the PM so that I was no longer the autofeeder )

Lots of info and comments in this post - Using Food to Manipulate the Curve

Good luck!

Thank you so much, Susanne. I am a little brain dead right now but will definitely look that over and try to space her meals out into smaller portions.

No need to apologize and it is ok if we speak of Mouzer's OTJ in the condos lol I am just not announcing it in a condo for Mouzer.
And Yes! When I speak of changing anything within the protocols, I do not mean it as do not follow the protocols. They are good.
But I do believe when we question, we need to follow our gut, and just because it may veer away from exact, strict protocol, does not mean we are modifying the protocol, it simply means we are using our gut and brain, when knowing what our cats have done in past.

TR would serve your Susie well, I do believe. But first, you are going to need to get over the fear of the greens.
I did get to where I did not fear a 68, unless that 68 fell on a +1, which it did for Mouzer one time, and I dumped the karo in and sent him to the blues and I used karo because Mouzer does not respond to food or honey like many others do. But no harm done, at least he did not go lime

With TR, it will require your night time testing that you do say you are not a part of. But if you could make yourself do it, it would be beneficial for Susie.
If you do not want Susie to even go into the 40's lime, you have to learn all you can learn, so you can know what to do. YOU must know what to do with Your Cat. And I will say that sometimes those limes are unavoidable, but I think we should try our best to prevent it, if possible, And that is what some will consider as modifying TR. I do not. I consider it as 'being very aware' and 'being very wise'.

And I did not care that Mouzer was a long term diabetic. I have history to show how Mouzer reacts to food and honey and I was not going to forget it, and that served well that I did not allow anyone to force me into forgetting it, and that is what was being attempted and no, I did not appreciate it. And because I did not appreciate that, I was accused of 'complaining and not being appreciative'. Interesting, I thought. With me, suggestions are welcomed and appreciated, orders are unwelcomed, unappreciated and will be refused. That has not one thing to do with 'appreciation'. One can be appreciative and still have a mind of their own to do what they know is best for their cat and for them too. Appreciation does not mean one must follow orders, and the two are not to be confused.

I am most appreciative to everyone on this forum, for their suggestions, their help and the push to shoot when I was too scared to shoot, and for all of the many stickies I have read, although I admit, I did not appreciate the fly by sticky drops into my condos that were speaking against what was already decided will take place. That was not being suggestive.
That was dropping off orders and not even coming back to respond to how I felt about those orders, meaning it was not cared what I felt, nor was it cared how that Mouzer's SS was showing I got no sleep, and I have a lot of work to do to be going around with no sleep, so that was not cared about either.

I was not being cared about, period, except by one person who had been with me all through my condos and saw what was taking place and they really did care. Those fly by order drops, coming from people who paid us not mind except to do fly by order drops and then having me pm'ed with gaslighting techniques, accusing me of complaining and not being appreiciative, when I spoke up, were taking nothing into consideration, except to fly by and drop those orders. No! I do not appreciate that and no healthy minded person would.

Thanks, Cherryl. I'm sorry you had some bad experiences but I know you learned a lot from these folks. You know Mouzer so much better than I know Susie with this diabetes issue. I will read all I can and learn all I can and take everyone's advise. But, as I said, if I question anything I will ask for an explanation.

All this aside, IF you can get yourself accustomed to allowing Susie to have green and too, realize you will have night time testing to do and be ok with doing that, TR would be great for Susie.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

Okay, folks. One last question for the day. If I keep feeding the curve then how will I know if a reduction is not called for?

I don't think I want to do this anymore. I stated, from day 1, that I was not looking to get Susie into remission. I just wanted her in mid to low blues and HIGH greens. Feeding the greens seems a little wrong as I am not getting the true story of what the insulin is doing because it is food influenced. I'm tired of checking her blood every hour on the hour and I don't want to do this to her, or me, everyday and every night. I'm sorry that I will disappoint many of you but this is not the course I wanted to take. I appreciate everyone's help and support but Susie is taking a .25 reduction effective tonight. After all, the correct protocol for SLGS is reductions at 90. Thank you for everyone's help, advise and support. I truly do appreciate it.