2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and ques

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NitroViper

NitroViper

Member Since 2014
Original freak out and Hi post :) lol http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=113348

After all the help from everyone on the forum I'm on my way to home testing and giving insulin to my little buddy. He is taking it well so far.

I was told to start a new thread with progress, tests and dose questions.

He is currently on his second day at 1 unit of Vetsulin every 12 hours.

Relion Confirm tester.

Spread sheet will be updated everyday.

Wease's Progress Report

If anyone has time to check my spreadsheet and give suggestions if I haven't posted please feel free to post. I cant always test every 2 hours but I will atleast get +6 or +& and pre shots for sure.

Right now im in the process of figuring out Wease's dose. I cant do that alone tho. I'm going to try and keep him tested often to get a good base. I feel terrible about his ears tho!!!!!!!!!!!

I feed him twice a day 10am and 10pm I'm supposed to be giving him 8oz a day for the calories he needs but I haven't done that exactly yet, he is getting about maybe 6.5 oz. I have to figure out a better way of opening 2 cans of wet cat food and giving him a can and a half total a day.

My Favorite buddy!
lilwiz_zps66cf7e9a.jpg
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Hey,

You're doing great!

They make tops that fit the top of the bigger cat food cans. That's what I use upstairs when I feed Cobb overnight. I keep it in a plastic sandwich bag in the refrigerator downstairs during the day. You can probably find the tops somewhere like Petsmart.

His ears will look worse than they feel. Do you have some Neosporin with pain relief? It will heal them up quickly. Just be sure to wipe the Neosporin off before you prick to test!

~Suzanne
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

He looks none the worse for wear! You're doing great and you don't need to test every 2 hours every day. Some people reserve one day a week when they know they'll be around to run a full "curve" (that's what it's called when you test every 2 hours across a cycle). Others (like myself) try to get enough tests in at different times across the entire week so the curve "completes" itself via fill-in-the-blank. It's whatever suits your schedule the best.

And don't worry. The ears look terrible the first couple of weeks but it eventually clears up. Now, you can't even tell my Mikey gets tested...and I mainly only test him on his right ear!
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

If you look at his spreadsheet for the last 2 days I think his numbers are pretty close to the same.

I think if his numbers are around 390 I might try 1.5 units. I don't like him going that high every day.

Would that be ok?
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

I know you want to get his numbers down quickly. We all do. But you can't rush it. Give it a few more cycles. Higher numbers are safer in the short run. Numbers that are too low can be deadly, and expensive, and you don't really know how Wease reacts to the insulin just yet, except he had that nice drop yesterday.

Also .5 unit increase when you're at 1 unit is a huge increase. Most of the time it is recommended to do a .25 unit increase. Go slow so you know how your cat reacts.

Other people may have a different opinion because they know your insulin better than I do but I bet most would agree to not increase just yet.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Ok, ill wait. I just want him to be better. I mean he acts perfectly normal expect for his weakened rear legs. I wish I knew how to make them stronger.

Im going to only start testing him 3 times a day. before each shot and at mid cycle. I just cant stand to hurt his ears anymore for now.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

I agree on waiting a teeny bit longer before increasing and also second increasing to only 1.25u to start. Depending on how the next couple of cycles go, I'd say tomorrow night might be a good idea for an increase if his nadir/low point remains the same.

Go ahead and give his ears a little break; you've been doing an amazing job with the amount of testing you've been getting in! But make sure you keep getting those pre-shots and mid-cycle tests in so we can see how the dose is working. Within a couple of weeks, his ears will start looking better and won't be as sensitive (angiogenesis) and you'll be an old pro at testing. ;-)
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Well done Jason,you are doing a great job,I am not experienced to give you advise,but you might ask the knowledgeable team if Zobaline will help with Weases leg weakness.
I have just looked at your video of Wease,he is so beautiful,what a wonderful face,give him a big hug from Bailey and me.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

You can freeze some of the food and put it out to thaw. He can nibble the thawed food later in the day.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Great job Jason, getting tests in. Isn't it good to know that he isn't terribly high or low and not just have to guess?

I'd up the dose to 1.25 the next cycle you can monitor. He is not in a bad range at all, and the Vetsulin is lasting longer than we usually see. There doesn't seem to be a big jump in numbers at +8 or a big drop early in the cycle.. Instead it's a nice smile curve from higher at preshot to lower midcycle to higher again 12 hours later. But he does has room to drop at preshot and midcycle.

This is encouraging news. He may be one of the cats that react well to it.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Thanks everyone. His BG was 334 this amps, that surprised me a little. Ill stay at 1unit. Maybe his body is doing better and his numbers will get a little lower? Then adjust the dose after his body gets use to the insulin?

Im glad im listening to you guys lol.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

One thing you might notice is that his demeanor improves before his numbers do. Cobb started coming around more and using the litter box less. The numbers are only a small part of the whole cat.

Great news on the lower AMPS!
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Good morning you stinkin' cute funny face kitty!

Hi Jason! Sure is a lot calmer around your house today than a couple of days ago huh!!
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

I hope you will post a picture with each daily update. :-D Wease is ridiculously cute!
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Hi Jason, I can totally relate to your original freak out post - I posted mine on Monday. You sound much calmer and confident now and I hope that Wease is doing well today. My husband and I are pretty much in the same place you are, getting the hang of all of this. Testing, shots, understanding the disease - it is a lot to deal with in addition to being upset that our furkid is so sick. I know that Monday when I joined this board I was bottoming out from all of the stress but these great folks are helping me get it together too.

I believe I read that you live in San Francisco? We do too. Have you found a vet you like here in the city?

Best wishes and Evie sends Wease a gentle headbonk.
Jeanette
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

jacereske said:
I believe I read that you live in San Francisco?
Best wishes and Evie sends Wease a gentle headbonk.
Jeanette
Click to expand...

I live in upstate NY :)

Wease's BG is at 305 pm pre shot. That's by far the lowest ive seen so far.

Does this mean a good thing or does it mean its going to be an issue?

Is it from his diet change since last Saturday?

bunni9 said:
I hope you will post a picture with each daily update. :-D Wease is ridiculously cute!
Click to expand...

This is what Wease looks like after he forces his way onto my lap when Im working and there is no room for him haha.

Pict0001_zps93ff2a0e.jpg
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Sorry about that - I thought you were on the Left Coast. :smile:

I am still too new to answer your question but I'm sure someone more experienced will. I'm trying to figure out these darn numbers myself!
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Love that picture! Wease is like, "Ok Dad. Stop paying attention to the computer and pay attention to me now."
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

I think it's Napa and Ellie (ebuckley) who also live up in NorCal.

NitroViper said:
Wease's BG is at 305 pm pre shot. That's by far the lowest ive seen so far.

Does this mean a good thing or does it mean its going to be an issue?

Is it from his diet change since last Saturday?
Click to expand...

That's a good thing! No need to do anything differently just yet. I'm maybe hold the 1u another day and keep getting those mid-cycle tests in. It could be from the diet change or from the insulin helping bring his numbers down or a little of both. It's a good sign, though. ;-)
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

His PM preshot was 305 like mentioned before. I just tested him +4 now its 320? How would it go up?

I been feeding him the exact amount at the exact time every day with no change.

My +4 readings have always been lower than my pre shots for except this time.

**EDIT at +6 he is at 204. His readings have been pretty consistent. He has been on full 3 days now. Should I raise the dose tomorrow morning if his numbers are from 350-398? maybe 1.25? even. There is no half markings or .25 markings but I I can eyeball it probably.

:(

What kind of treats that are good for him in a bag that I can give him? I need to find some for after I check his blood so he knows he will get one after.

I use to give him temptations a lot, he loves those things but they are probably terrible.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Hi Jason,
You are right about temptations,I have heard them being referred to as kitty crack!!! Definitely a NO NO .Bailey loved them too,but now he has to be satisfied with freeze dried chicken treats,or you could cook some fresh chicken, let it cool and dice it up into bite size pieces, handy to keep in the fridge.I give B a few prawns too.Did you check out Zobaline for Weases leg weakness problem?
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Larry and Kitties said:
I would increase to 1 1/4 units twice daily.
Click to expand...

His AMPS was 274, I never expected it that low so kind of excited for him.

I did raise the dose to 1.25 tho. Its REALLY hard to eyeball that tiny thing, especially when there is no 1/2 markings. So my 1.25 is a very close estimate.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Folks told me that consistency is more important than absolute accuracy.

I found this languishing in my toolbox in the garage. Very helpful.
 

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Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Hi Jason!!

Here's a list of Low Carb treats for you to look over. The Temptations are too high in carbs.

I just buy chicken when it's on sale and boil 1 piece and freeze the rest. Cut the boiled into small treat sized pieces and refrigerate (you can also freeze after boiling if it's too much to use in a few days). Ends up being a lot cheaper in the long run, and most cats love it.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Jason - guy thing....

Go to Harbor Freight (or other hardware store) and buy yourself a handy dandy 4" caliper to measure doses.

Harbor Freight 4" Calipers

You can then measure your doses for consistency rather than eyeballing. It won't take you long to start recognizing each dose without them. If you want to do it this way, I'll find you more info...

I use caliper dosing and full unit marked syringes - I used to use the half unit marked one but now that I've gotten used to the single unit ones, the half unit ones confuse me... :razz: This also takes away the non-consistency of the first lines too.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Ellie is right again:
ebuckley said:
Folks told me that consistency is more important than absolute accuracy.
Click to expand...

These are the digital calipers I sometimes use when the syringe markings are particularly off on a specific bag/batch or when Mikey's on quarter-unit doses. :-D
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

at +6 today his reading is the lowest I ever seen it.

128 BG

I started him at 1.25 unit as mentioned before, should I be worried about the number that low? Because his numbers were going down on 1 unit, im afraid he will keep going down over the coarse of a few days like he did when he was on 1 unit.

Should I just stay at 1.25? this is at +6 so it should start going back up.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

That is a lower number than you have seen, but it's a nice safe number. Remember, we don't worry unless the lowest point is lower than 50. A regulated cat is in the mid 200s at preshot and in double digits at nadir, but not below 50.

I think you both are doing great. He is responding amazingly well to the Vetsulin. The objective is for the numbers to continue to lower, until you need to lower the dose, and again, until he doesn't need insulin anymore. As long as you are testing, you can keep him in safe numbers.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

His BG is 96 at +6 after pmps of 1.25

I got a very very tiny blood sample but the test didn't come up with an error so I hope it was correct.

This again is the lowest I have seen. Think I should stay at 1.25 for a while? I'm afraid it'll go lower and lower and get to low.

Is there a way to even that curve out? or is it always going to be a big dip curve?

I don't think I am going to test anymore at night, its just way to late for me and its killing me during the day. It is 4am right now.

Plus test strips are going to kill me, even if I test him only 3 times a day its about $35 a month. On top of the insulin, syringes, cat food, vet visits, and other supply's I don't think I can afford more that 3 tests a day.

Here is another pic of Wease showing of his squishiness lol

34qt_zpsad29d23c.jpg
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Lookit that cute, chubby face! xD He looks delighted with you after that last poke.

As far as expensive test strips - maybe we can all go in on a large bulk order of the Relion Conform test strips. Or! Convince them to sponser us? Worth a shot, right? ;-)

I've genuinely thought it's worth trying to talk to the company that makes Lantus... It's pretty much the insulin of choice around here. Maybe we could convince them to market to us and vets specifically? Smaller vials, finer needles with 0.25 markings? With the generic coming up, surely they'd welcome a new market for their product... And maybe we could save some newly diabetic kitty parents from getting that first $200+ vial. When Theo got diagnosed I wound up paying $400 in insulin in two days. :shock:
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

More level curves? Not unless you switch insulin. ;-) I'd definitely keep him at this dose a while longer or lower it a smidge, if anything. No need to increase just yet. For the test strips, look into the ReliOn Prime from Walmart. It does require a slightly bigger blood sample than the Confirm, but the test strips only cost $9 for 50.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

His AMPS is 239, do I dare to give 1.25 again? That's the lowest pre shot ive had.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

If you're concerned about how low the glucose might go and you won't be able to monitor, back off a quarter unit.
If the lowest level has remained well above 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer (80 mg/dL pet specific), shoot.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

I gave him a smidge less than 1.25, when I say a smidge I mean it probably was 1.25 lol. It's such a tiny amount its hard to tell. I can test him +6 today but wont be able to test at all tonight after his pm shot.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

I'm not sure what to tell you on dose. I'd be curious to see if the 1.25 might give him a nice green nadir. That said, you'd want to make sure you could monitor pretty closely, and that you had both low carb and gravy/HC on hand in case he dips lower than you're expecting. It looks like Wease is really making the best of this insulin! His numbers are looking really good!

As we got more confident in our testing abilities with Eddie, and got more data on how he responded to a particular dose, I felt more confident in bringing him down lower into the greens. Eventually, you'll be able to help control his curve by "strategic" feeding of small amounts of low carb food. If you look at some of the Lantus user condos and spreadsheets -- especially those who's cats spend a lot of time in lower numbers, you can see what I mean by guiding with food. :smile: I do this with Eddie if he's dropping a little faster than I want, or if I want to bring his numbers up just a hair.

With the type of insulin you're using, you can also probably use food to even him out some. Smaller meals throughout the day puts less pressure on the pancreas than with big meals. You may also be able to withhold meals later in the cycle to avoid raising his BG after the insulin has worn off.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

I mean his numbers look way better than they did, couldn't I be happy with around 150-70 numbers forever? Id rather leave him a little higher than to low. Can he live happy with a little higher numbers like mentioned?
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

NitroViper said:
I mean his numbers look way better than they did, couldn't I be happy with around 150-70 numbers forever? Id rather live him a little higher than to low. Can he live happy with a little higher numbers like mentioned?
Click to expand...

Most definitely! Numbers in those ranges would be very, very good regulation on insulin, and he'd likely be very healthy in that range. Many cats, do, however, actually go into remission, meaning no more insulin! :smile: I think everyone has remission as an "end-game" goal but the first step is regulation, and you're doing great lowering Wease's numbers overall in that direction!
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Magnifiers can be really helpful for consistent measuring -stand, hand, visor, or clip on.

I wear glasses, so I found the Carson Clip and Flip to be exactly what I needed. You'll find them on our shopping partner Amazon.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Weaes's PMPS is at 216, im afraid to give him 1.25 units again because of the average rate he drops in the curve.

I wont be home tonight to check on him so should I give 1 unit instead?

He dropped 186 points from his pm preshot to his +6 last night. 282 to 96

If he does that again he will go seriously low.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

You can also leave some food out. Cats will eat if they feel themselves dropping low.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Thanks, I will give him 1 unit. Better safe than sorry :)
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

his +6 at 195 makes no sense to me. Maybe he was responding better to the 1.25 unit dose.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

When you get a lower than expected test, re-test.

Also, when the glucose drops rapidly, or to an unfamiliar level, compensatory hormones kick in and release stored glucose (glycogen) which raises the glucose level up for as much as 3 days. You maay be seeing some of that. We call it a 'bounce'.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Looks like the 1.25 dose is a better dose for now, when you can monitor. Made sense to dial back a bit if you couldn't monitor last night. This is a moving target, Jason. That's why we like hometesting. :mrgreen:
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

Wease threw up last night, first time he has done that since I started him on wetfood about a week and 3 days ago. I tested his PMPS and it was 171, lowest Ive ever saw it at any pre shot. I still gave him 1 unit lowering it from 1.25 of insulin tho. Hope he will be ok.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

1.25 units dropped him about 150 mg/dL - an estimated 120 mg/dL per unit. One unit could drop him too much today. You'll want to check him every few hours and maybe have some medium or high carb food available to steer his numbers if he starts heading low.

Keep an eye on the vomiting as it can really drop the glucose. As needed, you may have to drop the insulin dose to accommodate the lack of food.

If he should continue having vomiting or stop eating for more than 2 days, he'll need a vet visit due to the risk of hepatic lipidosis where too much fat is broken down and overwhelms the liver, disrupting food digestion and absorption.
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

he is at 107 at +3 hopefully he doesn't drop more than 50 more points. Im worried!
 
Re: 2/12/14 Wease Progress with Vetsulin. Daily updates and

One of the things that might calm your worries is if you know what to do.

If he drops into the 50s, feed him a small amount of regular food and retest in 20-30 minutes. If he has come up, do another test in that same time frame.

If he drops lower, give him some gravy off the higher carb gravy foods and retest within that same time.

The vast majority of the time, IF the cat drops below the 50s(not saying he will) the bean can steer the numbers with food and keep him high enough to be safe until the insulin starts to wear off. That kind of scenerio happens here all the time and the cat is fine. Usually the only time (and it is very rare) a hypo causes a trip to the vet is when a new person comes on, isn't testing and says their cat is acting funny.

FYI. The reason you feed small amounts when steering the numbers is that you want him to stay hungry so he will eat and bring up his levels.

Once you know how you raise the numbers with food, the lower numbers are much less scary.
 
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