2/10 Poncho updates

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christoph said:
Wondering if Turmeric (Curcumin) is tolerated by cats. It's supposed to be a great anti inflammatory for humans.
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I use curcumin myself (for my joints, and instead of statins (I have heart disease)), and have also used it in my cats and found it to be well tolerated.
Ideas on the dosage vary (it's been tested in rats, not cats) but in rats the upper limit was deemed to be 100mg per kilo of bodyweight (doses above this were thought to possibly be ulcerogenic). A general therapeutic dose is thought to be around 50 - 75mg a day for a cat.

It has blood thinning properties so should be stopped well in advance of any surgical procedures.

Curcumin is contra-indicated if there are gall bladder problems (because it stimulates bile production).
And while there are some suggestions that it may help kitties with kidney disease, I've also read elsewhere that it isn't suitable because it can increase stomach acid.
It's also thought that it may decrease insulin resistance. So, it may be important to keep an eye on a diabetic cat's BG levels. (And in fact, I think Bertie's numbers did actually improve when I was giving it diligently every day...)

When I first thought of using it in my cats I did a whole load of reading online first. There's heaps of stuff out there. Unfortunately I didn't keep the links, but should be able to find the first one I came across quite easily.

Edited to add link:
http://margaret.healthblogs.org/2007/10/11/curcumin-for-cats/
 
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Maybe the vet could give you a small amount of sedative for your cat before the next dental appointment.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Curcumin is contra-indicated if there are gall bladder problems (because it stimulates bile production).
And while there are some suggestions that it may help kitties with kidney disease, I've also read elsewhere that it isn't suitable because it can increase stomach acid.
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Thanks for sharing your experience with curcumin, Eliz. On reading the above, I would have reservations about giving turmeric to a cat with pancreatitis.
 
BJM said:
Maybe the vet could give you a small amount of sedative for your cat before the next dental appointment.
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I had wondered about that, BJ, but my vet didn't suggest anything. What sedative should I enquire about? My instinct is that Saoirse might be even more freaked next time. :(
 
That's a vet decision. It would need to be something that would work with the anesthetic plan.
 
Thanks for all the good info Eliz. I'll wait until Poncho is back on his feet and then consult a vet re. turmeric. I've taken it for a few yrs as a supplement plus in food and after I ran out and delayed getting more (on line bulk supplement) I did notice my arthritis more. Good stuff!
 
Critter Mom said:
Thanks for sharing your experience with curcumin, Eliz. On reading the above, I would have reservations about giving turmeric to a cat with pancreatitis.
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PS... I'm quite dispirited about the contraindications for curcumin because, like Chris, I know from personal experience how how powerful an anti-inflammatory curcumin can be. It was a bit of an 'ace in the hole' if nothing else worked for Saoirse. That it might not work for my Bonnie Munchkin because of her particular digestive tract problems goes hard... :(
 
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The vet said Poncho's mouth looks fine....teeth are good, so I don't know what made him paw at the left side of his mouth....neurological issue from the hypo seizure? He's lost a little weight since Friday and is very lethargic and weak again.....skin and bones. He fights me more when I'm force feeding him so still has spirit. I did give him some buprenorphine yesterday just in case he had a tooth abcess or something but that should have worn off last night at midnight. A roller coaster ride for sure! Can anyone comment on my last 4 days on the 12 hr spread sheet? Am I supposed to be getting close numbers am and pm instead of the high vs low? Any advice?
 
Seems AM is too low to shoot with your current scale, but then he goes up much higher at the PM shot time. It's best to adjust the scale so that you have 2 shootable numbers to avoid the swinging/keep him more stable. I don't have prozinc experience, so I'm sure there is someone here that can help you with looking at the sliding scale you are using.
 
Thanks Meya14. Maybe equalize feeding per 12 hr periods will give me am and pm shootable numbers. Right now my feeding schedule is lop sided so 3 feedings per 12 hrs might do it.
 
Poncho might have a natural tendency to run low at night. Some cats do. I've not used Prozinc so have no experience but if Poncho were my cat and I saw those low AMPS numbers after the 1.25 unit PM doses, I'd wonder whether it might be a bit high for the evening cycle? Also is there any chance that you might be able to get some more mid-cycle numbers, especially on the evening cycle? A PM+2 and a 'before bed' test should give you a much better picture of how Poncho is responding.

I'd suggest starting a new thread specifically asking for Prozinc dosing advice.
 
Ok....thanks. I'll ask in the Prozinc section. I think as I lower the pm dose the am BG will rise gradually until they're close so dose is same am and pm providing Poncho gets the same amount of food in each 12 hr period, but I'll make sure.
 
Critter Mom said:
Cool. How is the little fella today?
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His URI was going away until yesterday and it's back full strength. We have an appt with the vet today and she knows it's back. I think she might want to give another injection of Convenia but I'm not going to allow it after reading about it. She gave him that stuff when I first brought him in and I don't like what I've read about it since. He is fighting me more at feeding, but finally lets me win.
 
Hi Chris,

I'm sorry to hear that Poncho's URI is back. I wonder if they're like us? When we're run down it takes us longer to fight off infections.

I hope the fighting's a good sign, though. When Saoirse started feeling better she'd occasionally get cranky with me when I was doing things to help her improve. I do feel for you over the assist feeding. It must be tough going. I'm very grateful that Saoirse started eating on her own. I suppose not being able to smell or taste food properly isn't helping Poncho at the moment. I hope he feels better very soon.

Sending :bighug: and special anti-URI scritches.
 
Thanks Aine. He seems to be better as the day evolves. Were you able to get Saoirse's dental? I noticed and read her profile.....she sure has been through a lot....and looks very well....she's a beautiful girl.
 
That she is, Chris. By nature as well as looks. I love her more than I have the power to articulate. ((Saoirse)) She was dreadfully ill last summer, especially during the height of her pancreatitis flare. I really was scared I might lose her. The right treatment regimen, very, very cautious feeding, and a lot of home nursing got her through it and she has gone from strength to strength since. She actually looks much younger and healthier than she has done in years; a big change from the lethargic, dander-ridden, bald-tummied, depressed girl she was prior to diagnosis. Her avatar picture was taken six years ago. She looks as good, if not better, now.

The attempted dental was a disaster. Saoirse is normally very pacific but she had a major meltdown after I checked her in for the procedure last week. The vet and the nurse couldn't get near her to do the pre-op checks and there was no way they could get a valid pre-anaesthetic blood pressure check while she was in that state. When I went back to collect her she was hissing and growling at the veterinary nurse. Lord knows what her BP must have been because her tongue was bright red! Normally she hardly makes a peep! I think the long fast may have upset her digestive tract: her pancreatitis symptoms were more noticeable for a few days afterwards. Our main vet is going to bring her in next week at a quiet time to do most of the pre-op tests and based on those we'll reschedule the dental. She's also going to have a tummy ultrasound and have a blood sample drawn for allergy testing. Thank you for asking about her. :)

I'm really glad to hear that Poncho's been improving over the course of the day. Again I wonder if they're like us. I know when I've had chest infections in the past I might wake up feeling really lousy but get better as the day progressed.

Is Poncho still getting B12 supplementation, btw? It really did give Saoirse a tremendous boost and I think it helped her appetite as well.
 
Poncho saw the vet yesterday and refilled the antibiotic and got a new appetite med called cyproheptadine. She also gave an injection of buprenorphine sr (72hr) and all night he was very restless/agitated and overly affectionate (more than usual on this stuff). He's had the sr before with normal side effects (sedation) but this was just the opposite. He had the oral bupren. the night before and I'm wondering if all of that hadn't left his system, which should have given the time frame. Anyway his am BG was well into the 500s and I'm sure his reaction was partly responsible for it being high. He's back to "normal" now.
 
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I did notice that when Saoirse was on cyproheptadine that once the initial drowsiness wore off it did have a bit of a mood elevating effect. Also, provided she doesn't get a strong dose of bupe that makes her a little purry, too. I know from observing Saoirse that when cypro and bupe are administered in tandem that the drowsy side effects can increase. Maybe the mood altering effects are more noticeable when they're used in combination, too?
 
Critter Mom said:
I did notice that when Saoirse was on cyproheptadine that once the initial drowsiness wore off it did have a bit of a mood elevating effect. Also, provided she doesn't get a strong dose of bupe that makes her a little purry, too. I know from observing Saoirse that when cypro and bupe are administered in tandem that the drowsy side effects can increase. Maybe the mood altering effects are more noticeable when they're used in combination, too?
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I have yet to give the cypro because he had a dose of a different appetite drug the day before and since it was a 3 day dose didn't want to give the cypro until the 3 days are up, although I haven't read anything to suggest there would be a problem going ahead. I need to see if the vet has a liquid form of the cypro and ondansetron since Poncho is difficult to pill. Maybe I need to work on technique.
 
If Poncho has a sinus infection and he's not responding to the antibiotics he's taking, you might want to have the vet grow a culture from his nose. That way they would have a better idea what antibiotic is appropriate for his infection. One of my friends had her vet do this for her cat that had recurrent sinus infections and they finally got it under control.
 
billysmom said:
If Poncho has a sinus infection and he's not responding to the antibiotics he's taking, you might want to have the vet grow a culture from his nose. That way they would have a better idea what antibiotic is appropriate for his infection. One of my friends had her vet do this for her cat that had recurrent sinus infections and they finally got it under control.
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I didn't know this was an option and will ask the vet. His URI is and has been one of the main obstacles to his self-feeding/recovery. Thanks for the tip!
 
christoph said:
I didn't know this was an option and will ask the vet. His URI is and has been one of the main obstacles to his self-feeding/recovery. Thanks for the tip!
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My friend's a nurse, so I think she tends to be pretty aggressive when talking to the vet. After trying two different antibiotics she said, why don't you just culture his nose? She said the vet said "that's a good idea!" I got the impression this isn't something they normally do, maybe because of $$, but you would think it would be cheaper than having to buy several different antibiotics before getting one that works. Also, with your cat it seems imperative that it be resolved asap.
 
The culture might not be a bad idea. There are some viral conditions as well that would not show up on a culture that can cause chronic URI, but it might give you a clue as to what you are dealing with.
 
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