12/23 Chanel AMPS 306 PMPS 69 +3 102 AT2 Pet Meter

Good luck with the new dose. I hope Chanel comes down for you.
Thank you Carla. I think she is trying but last night I have her some Tiki Cat food with pumpkin because she did not have a BM yesterday and that food is approx 20% carbs. That probably will help her bouncing into pink. Besides, she was feeling really blue last night and lethargic. She seems to enjoy the high BGs, oh man.
I hope your week starts great. I see Furball puts a pink note as morning starter :). Sending her hugs and kisses and hope to see her coming down today, getting blue :)
 
Good Morning Laura! Looks like Chanel is up there in orbit. I hope she comes down son for you...and I hope she leaves you a nice present in the litter box.

Have a great day! And have a cup of coffee :coffee::coffee::coffee:
 
Good Morning Laura! Looks like Chanel is up there in orbit. I hope she comes down son for you...and I hope she leaves you a nice present in the litter box.

Have a great day! And have a cup of coffee :coffee::coffee::coffee:
She would have been in a better BG range if it was not for the HC I gave her yesterday to get her to the literbox. I think she knows me well and since she does not like Miralax, she really plays me every time :). Last night after her HC, she came back to life and having a naughty face as well. It is hard to resist but last night I was worried.
Thankfully, this morning she had BM, little dry though since she does not drink much water. I got her up to 1.5U BID and we hope to see blues more often these days, especially that I will be at home and I can test more.
Oh, the coffee is the first thing for me every morning. I get to understand why when Chanel's BG is decreasing, she feels down :)
I can see Luci is having fun in the mornings with the lemons but relaxing in the greens during day :smuggrin::kiss::joyful:
 
Channel's PMPS is 69 I gave her Fancy Feast treat that is 10% carbs and her usual Fancy Feast that is 0% carbs. She does not have any hypoglycemia symptoms except hiding under the clothes (she does that when she does not feel OK and knows I am taking her to the vet). Do I wait another hour and test again? We just started the 1.5U today and she had her first dose at 6 am.:nailbiting:
I do not want her to lose momentum but I did not expect this.:arghh:
It looks like she did not even touch the dry food today, I guess she was sleeping as per her normal schedule.
 
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I'm not sure if it would bring more attention but, you could include AT2 in your condo. Most board members use human meters and aren't as familiar with AT2 normal range #s. To me that 69 looks like a beautiful # but, in reality it's a lower #. I think 80-120 is the normal range for an AT2?? With human meters anything 50 or below is a heads up/caution. So, your condo may get overlooked because peeps think it's a normal #....thinking it's a human meter reading. Just my thoughts and I could be totally wrong:p:facepalm:
 
I'm not sure if it would bring more attention but, you could include AT2 in your condo. Most board members use human meters and aren't as familiar with AT2 normal range #s. To me that 69 looks like a beautiful # but, in reality it's a lower #. I think 80-120 is the normal range for an AT2?? With human meters anything 50 or below is a heads up/caution. So, your condo may get overlooked because peeps think it's a normal #....thinking it's a human meter reading. Just my thoughts and I could be totally wrong:p:facepalm:
Thank you so much for the suggestion. I just changed it. On the SS it is at the lower end of the green range (68-99). Now I do not know what to do, test her and give her the insulin after one hour after the food?
 
For SLGS?
For any time that you encounter a much lower number at AMPS or PMPS than you're comfortable with shooting.

The steps are wait - do not feed.

Test again in 20 minutes to see which way the numbers are heading; if still low, continue to wait and test again.

IF rising, then you may want to plan to shoot - or determine how long you can wait as it's going to throw off your schedule in the morning.

I don't know your schedule so cannot say how much time you can tolerate for being off schedule. Since you've already fed, about all you can do now is monitor her to see how low she might be going - if she's still dropping. It may be harder to tell now that she's eaten...

Let's see what her next test shows...can you test again?
 
For any time that you encounter a much lower number at AMPS or PMPS than you're comfortable with shooting.

The steps are wait - do not feed.

Test again in 20 minutes to see which way the numbers are heading; if still low, continue to wait and test again.

IF rising, then you may want to plan to shoot - or determine how long you can wait as it's going to throw off your schedule in the morning.

I don't know your schedule so cannot say how much time you can tolerate for being off schedule. Since you've already fed, about all you can do now is monitor her to see how low she might be going - if she's still dropping. It may be harder to tell now that she's eaten...

Let's see what her next test shows...can you test again?
I tested her 45 minutes after 6 pm (her AMPS and PMPS are 6.00 am and 6.00 pm). 45 minutes after evening testing she is 111. No idea if I should wait more or not :(
@Wendy&Neko , @Marje and Gracie please advise.
 
I tested her 45 minutes after 6 pm (her AMPS and PMPS are 6.00 am and 6.00 pm). 45 minutes after evening testing she is 111. No idea if I should wait more or not :(
So you're already 45 minutes behind schedule.

Can you tolerate shooting an hour or more late? The reason I ask about your tolerance is in the morning, you cannot give her the AM injection on schedule; you can only move it up by 15 minutes in the morning - do you have to go to work?
 
So you're already 45 minutes behind schedule.

Can you tolerate shooting an hour or more late? The reason I ask about your tolerance is in the morning, you cannot give her the AM injection on schedule; you can only move it up by 15 minutes in the morning - do you have to go to work?
No, I don't. This week I can stay at home. But does this mean I will have to change her insulin schedule from now on? I do not mind, just making sure I am not hurting her :(
 
No, I don't. This week I can stay at home. But does this mean I will have to change her insulin schedule from now on? I do not mind, just making sure I am not hurting her :(
Not at all...just since you're shooting late tonight (maybe) you haven't really decided yet...you'll want to back up in 15 minute increments from whenever you do shoot - so let's say you wait until 8 p.m. tonight to shoot - tomorrow morning you do it at 7:45, tomorrow evening 7:30...keep backing up by 15 minutes each time until you're back on schedule OR skip tonight and start over in the morning at your usual time.
 
If for instance you do decide to shoot tonight based on her numbers, you do not want to shoot her two hours early tomorrow - that spells disaster - as shooting that early is interpreted as an increase - you'll need to ease back to your regular schedule - 15 minutes at a time to be safe.
 
Not at all...just since you're shooting late tonight (maybe) you haven't really decided yet...you'll want to back up in 15 minute increments from whenever you do shoot - so let's say you wait until 8 p.m. tonight to shoot - tomorrow morning you do it at 7:45, tomorrow evening 7:30...keep backing up by 15 minutes each time until you're back on schedule OR skip tonight and start over in the morning at your usual time.
Oh, I see. That sounds great. Now she is sleeping. It is hard to say she has any signs of hypoglycemia. She ate, gave herself a bath completed with mani-pedi and now she just sleeps next to me.
 
Thank you so much for the suggestion. I just changed it. On the SS it is at the lower end of the green range (68-99). Now I do not know what to do, test her and give her the insulin after one hour after the food?
Hi,

I have not been active on the board in awhile, but was checking in and saw your post and was concerned, 68 is low for AT2 meter, even coming up to low 100s is still low. It is true that most people here think in terms of human meter numbers. I don’t like to give advice because someone is always bound to say something, but with a number that low on AT meter, I would play is safe and skip, especially since night cycles tend to be lower.

As an example, and this is not exact, but a rough estimate,110 on AT2 is about 75-80 on human meter, no direct correlation, but I used an AT2 for over 6 months and did a lot of incremental comparisons.
 
If for instance you do decide to shoot tonight based on her numbers, you do not want to shoot her two hours early tomorrow - that spells disaster - as shooting that early is interpreted as an increase - you'll need to ease back to your regular schedule - 15 minutes at a time to be safe.
I am willing to do anything that is best for her. Usually I test her at 6 am and 6 pm but with the eating ritual she gets her insulin shot like 5-10 minutes later than 6. Now, I know I kind of freaked out but did not expect from 306 in the morning to see 69 in the evening. That shows that she can do much better if she does not eat dry food.
 
Oh, I see. That sounds great. Now she is sleeping. It is hard to say she has any signs of hypoglycemia. She ate, gave herself a bath completed with mani-pedi and now she just sleeps next to me.

Symptoms of hypo are not always overt enough to see...I know they say 'wobbling or stumbling gait' drooling, etc. You do not want to wait until you start to see those kinds of symptoms...

I would suggest that you get another test - no more food - and see which way her numbers are headed...Since you're using the AT2 the numbers are different from what I'm used to so you'll have to study them carefully - if they're rising and you're comfortable shooting it's your decision. That 69 was a number on an AT2 that would give me pause as well...

Just remember next time, no food, test again in 20 minutes.

I was so alarmed the first time I saw this kind of low number at shot time I freaked out and fed Luci medium or high carb food! Caught me completely by surprise...I had no idea what to do either...

But next time you'll know :)
 
I am willing to do anything that is best for her. Usually I test her at 6 am and 6 pm but with the eating ritual she gets her insulin shot like 5-10 minutes later than 6. Now, I know I kind of freaked out but did not expect from 306 in the morning to see 69 in the evening. That shows that she can do much better if she does not eat dry food.

I have a similar schedule: first alarm goes off at 6:15 AM and PM: that's test/feed time. Next alarm goes off at 6:30, that's shot time. I leave Luci in the laundry room for 15 minutes to eat and bathe and do whatever she does...otherwise, she likes to slip off and go somewhere to put her feet up...and then it would delay the injection! Because I couldn't find her. Now I have a small laundry room to look in - sometimes she gets into the washer (it's a top load) sheesh...and there she is sitting in the tub! And sometimes she gets into the little basket I have in there for collecting dirty clothing...but generally it's pretty easy to track her down in there and since I've started confining her, typically her shots are on time to the minute every day...

Except tonight, we're moving it up by 10 minutes because the family expects us for Christmas Eve dinner at 6:30 - so I'm adjusting Luci's schedule a fraction so we won't be late tomorrow....
 
Hi,

I have not been active on the board in awhile, but was checking in and saw your post and was concerned, 68 is low for AT2 meter, even coming up to low 100s is still low. It is true that most people here think in terms of human meter numbers. I don’t like to give advice because someone is always bound to say something, but with a number that low on AT meter, I would play is safe and skip, especially since night cycles tend to be lower.

As an example, and this is not exact, but a rough estimate,110 on AT2 is about 75-80 on human meter, no direct correlation, but I used an AT2 for over 6 months and did a lot of incremental comparisons.
I know this value is pretty low. Checking the medical tests, they usually consider normal 80-115 but my guess is that it is different depending on the method. I saw differences in human BG values testing as well. I am not feeling OK to give her 1.5U right now and wondering what is the right thing to do: lower the dose? waiting for her to get to a safe number (what that would be since yesterday she was pretty blue). The fact that she chose not to eat dry food was unexpected but I am willing to go down that path especially that I was hoping for her to renounce dry food in favor of wet only.
 
I see you've just increased her...

Perhaps it would have been better to increase when you can be home to monitor. Since you really don't know how she's responding to the increase; remember with Lantus the depot is also in play here...

So the choice today to not eat dry was hers? It's still available to her?
 
Symptoms of hypo are not always overt enough to see...I know they say 'wobbling or stumbling gait' drooling, etc. You do not want to wait until you start to see those kinds of symptoms...

I would suggest that you get another test - no more food - and see which way her numbers are headed...Since you're using the AT2 the numbers are different from what I'm used to so you'll have to study them carefully - if they're rising and you're comfortable shooting it's your decision. That 69 was a number on an AT2 that would give me pause as well...

Just remember next time, no food, test again in 20 minutes.

I was so alarmed the first time I saw this kind of low number at shot time I freaked out and fed Luci medium or high carb food! Caught me completely by surprise...I had no idea what to do either...

But next time you'll know :)
She scared me badly and now I realized she was shaking her head so I cleaned her ears, put some ointment with antibiotic in there and hopefully she will feel better.
As for the food, she was hungry, it was her mealtime and I guess I did it the wrong way.
 
I see you've just increased her...

Perhaps it would have been better to increase when you can be home to monitor. Since you really don't know how she's responding to the increase; remember with Lantus the depot is also in play here...

So the choice today to not eat dry was hers? It's still available to her?
It is always there for her to eat. Did not take it away, just that now she has Dr. Elsey's and Young Again and she does not like either of them. Still she eats them at night and even during day but I guess today she was just determined to change my schedule from the kitchen to the computer.
 
She scared me badly and now I realized she was shaking her head so I cleaned her ears, put some ointment with antibiotic in there and hopefully she will feel better.
As for the food, she was hungry, it was her mealtime and I guess I did it the wrong way.

It's ok...you'll get another chance...same thing happened to me in the beginning! And after that...is she going up?
 
I know this value is pretty low. Checking the medical tests, they usually consider normal 80-115 but my guess is that it is different depending on the method. I saw differences in human BG values testing as well. I am not feeling OK to give her 1.5U right now and wondering what is the right thing to do: lower the dose? waiting for her to get to a safe number (what that would be since yesterday she was pretty blue). The fact that she chose not to eat dry food was unexpected but I am willing to go down that path especially that I was hoping for her to renounce dry food in favor of wet only.
My vet does not like diabetic cats to be under 80 on the AT2, (which is “about” 60 on a human meter) so that range you mentioned seems to apply for AT2 as well as venous blood draw on labs.

If you are switching to all low carb wet from dry, you can see a decent drop in BG rather quickly so keep that in mind in terms of insulin. I also noticed that increase Sue mentioned.

As far as dosing advice going forward, I would check with @Wendy&Neko or others may also have some direction, @Sue and Luci.
 
My vet does not like diabetic cats to be under 80 on the AT2, (which is “about” 60 on a human meter) so that range you mentioned seems to apply for AT2 as well as venous blood draw on labs.

If you are switching to all low carb wet from dry, you can see a decent drop in BG rather quickly so keep that in mind in terms of insulin. I also noticed that increase Sue mentioned.

As far as dosing advice going forward, I would check with @Wendy&Neko or others may also have some direction, @Sue and Luci.
I did not switch, tried to but she loved her dry food so I replaced it with the only dry food I could find with lower carbs %. She always would eat some, not much but every day. And today I supposed she was in low BGs so she did get out of the closet to go eat and kept getting lower :(
 
I have a similar schedule: first alarm goes off at 6:15 AM and PM: that's test/feed time. Next alarm goes off at 6:30, that's shot time. I leave Luci in the laundry room for 15 minutes to eat and bathe and do whatever she does...otherwise, she likes to slip off and go somewhere to put her feet up...and then it would delay the injection! Because I couldn't find her. Now I have a small laundry room to look in - sometimes she gets into the washer (it's a top load) sheesh...and there she is sitting in the tub! And sometimes she gets into the little basket I have in there for collecting dirty clothing...but generally it's pretty easy to track her down in there and since I've started confining her, typically her shots are on time to the minute every day...

Except tonight, we're moving it up by 10 minutes because the family expects us for Christmas Eve dinner at 6:30 - so I'm adjusting Luci's schedule a fraction so we won't be late tomorrow....
I think she is forcing me not to give her the shot tonight. I mean I can wait longer but if she does not increase enough, I am not sure what should I do. One thing is for sure, the dry food goes away tonight. Let's see how the evening goes with the values and maybe you guys can weigh in at some point about the dose. I was OK with 1.5U at 306 in the morning, but now I am totally scared of that dose for her BG values. Also, I do not want to force her into eating the dry food. I mean, it was what I was aiming for, after all.
 
I did not switch, tried to but she loved her dry food so I replaced it with the only dry food I could find with lower carbs %. She always would eat some, not much but every day. And today I supposed she was in low BGs so she did get out of the closet to go eat and kept getting lower :(

Perhaps if she's shunning it, this would be a good time to start weaning her off the dry...if she's willing to eat wet food without the dry she'll be far better off for it. I went cold turkey with Luci...tossed the dry and fed her only FF wet from the day I found out she was a diabetic. I do have a little Dr. Elsey's that I keep in canisters just in case...but because we're on TR she rarely to never gets any of it...
 
I think she is forcing me not to give her the shot tonight. I mean I can wait longer but if she does not increase enough, I am not sure what should I do. One thing is for sure, the dry food goes away tonight. Let's see how the evening goes with the values and maybe you guys can weigh in at some point about the dose. I was OK with 1.5U at 306 in the morning, but now I am totally scared of that dose for her BG values. Also, I do not want to force her into eating the dry food. I mean, it was what I was aiming for, after all.

Often, when dry food is removed from the diet, many kitties numbers will drop drastically. So you might be leaning in the right direction by 1)Removing that dry food and 2)Not shooting tonight....

Continue to monitor though...because the depot is still in play and now if it's full may be enough to take Chanel lower tonight - especially without the dry food playing a part ... let's see how she does tonight...you may be faced with a similar situation in the morning...
 
The previous vet considered 90-130 as a normal range, obviously they check with pet meters. Not sure her BG will increase enough tonight to get her usual insulin dose.
Yes, but we don't decide dosage based on the pre-shot numbers. Only on the nadirs ... so without mid-cycle tests its difficult to see how low she may have gotten today. You'll know more as you obtain more test tonight and tomorrow...hope you're off for the holidays so you can get additional tests - perhaps we can see a big change now that the dry food is out of the picture...you may be surprised :)
 
Perhaps if she's shunning it, this would be a good time to start weaning her off the dry...if she's willing to eat wet food without the dry she'll be far better off for it. I went cold turkey with Luci...tossed the dry and fed her only FF wet from the day I found out she was a diabetic. I do have a little Dr. Elsey's that I keep in canisters just in case...but because we're on TR she rarely to never gets any of it...
She absolutely HATES Dr. Elsey's Chicken dry food, no idea why. I mean she rather has the Young Again food that has pork and she might have some food intolerance to pork. Still she would rather eat that than Dr. Kelsey. How do I know? She has three little bowls: one mix, one Dr. Elsey's and one Young Again. She eats only from the mix but not much. Trust me, I will get that food up in no time if she is ready. The problem I have is that the feeder is coming only on Jan 6 and I do not want to leave wet food out for her to dry it out or getting it sticky. This week I am at home so I can control things, but next week I am working. :(
 
I see you've just increased her...

Perhaps it would have been better to increase when you can be home to monitor. Since you really don't know how she's responding to the increase; remember with Lantus the depot is also in play here...

So the choice today to not eat dry was hers? It's still available to her?
I did increase her dose because it was time and her blues yesterday were in high 100s like 150-190s. Besides, in the morning she was 306 and I thought it is OK to do that. Now I wonder what dose is good for her: 1.25U or 1.5U?
If I take away the dry food, I definitely have to keep a close eye on her, no matter the dose.
 
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I did increase her dose because it was time and her blues yesterday were in high 100s like 150-190s. Besides, in the morning she was 306 and I thought it is OK to do that. Now I wonder what dose is good for her: 1.25U or 1.5U?

I would have increased too...she hadn't done anything spectacular on the 1.25 - so I agree with you on that - however no one knew that she was going to abstain from her usual dry food diet - but now that you've agreed with her choice to no longer eat the dry food, you will want to be watchful to see if she's one of those kitties who between the dry food and her newly increased dose that she doesn't go too low - you'll know later this evening how much lower she's going to go on her own - perhaps with no more food. Just see how she's doing in a couple of hours - not sure how long you're staying up or when she will want to eat again...

I know at feeding time along with AM/PM pre-shot Luci used to stare at me if there was any delay in getting her food into her dish...as she was used to eating the minute I got out of bed - no matter when that was - which typically was an hour or more before her AM preshot...so I'd sit with the stare down at this hungry cat - begging me to feed her. About the only thing I could feed her was freeze dried bits of chicken or salmon - so as not to throw her AM or PM preshot number off...and that's how eventually I was able to manage to hold her off until her time...for us it's 6:15 ...

Like I said...let's wait and see how she does later this evening - if you could get in a few tests - you'll know more then.

And then you can make a more informed decision about what dose to go with in the morning - nadirs will tell the tale - not pre-shot numbers.
 
I did increase her dose because it was time and her blues yesterday were in high 100s like 150-190s. Besides, in the morning she was 306 and I thought it is OK to do that. Now I wonder what dose is good for her: 1.25U or 1.5U?
Just remember any dosing advice you read about in the stickies are based on HUMAN meters and if using AT2 your numbers will always be higher than the numbers they are advising on for the stickies. Mid to high 100s on AT2 like you mentioned would be low to mid 100s on human meter which are what the advice in stickies are based on.

You may want to consider trying human meter and using AT2 to double check really low numbers, that is what I am doing now. Fought switching to human meter because it was not the “real” cat number, but now I am glad I switched, so much cheaper for strips. And you don’t have to worry about trying to figure in the difference when people are advising doses and they are thinking in “human” numbers.

Also was funny, when I switched everyone immediately commented on how much better the numbers looked. Really the only thing that changed was the meter, they just see the AT2 numbers and always think they are too high (compared to the lower human meter numbers they are used to).
 
I would have increased too...she hadn't done anything spectacular on the 1.25 - so I agree with you on that - however no one knew that she was going to abstain from her usual dry food diet - but now that you've agreed with her choice to no longer eat the dry food, you will want to be watchful to see if she's one of those kitties who between the dry food and her newly increased dose that she doesn't go too low - you'll know later this evening how much lower she's going to go on her own - perhaps with no more food. Just see how she's doing in a couple of hours - not sure how long you're staying up or when she will want to eat again...

I know at feeding time along with AM/PM pre-shot Luci used to stare at me if there was any delay in getting her food into her dish...as she was used to eating the minute I got out of bed - no matter when that was - which typically was an hour or more before her AM preshot...so I'd sit with the stare down at this hungry cat - begging me to feed her. About the only thing I could feed her was freeze dried bits of chicken or salmon - so as not to throw her AM or PM preshot number off...and that's how eventually I was able to manage to hold her off until her time...for us it's 6:15 ...

Like I said...let's wait and see how she does later this evening - if you could get in a few tests - you'll know more then.

And then you can make a more informed decision about what dose to go with in the morning - nadirs will tell the tale - not pre-shot numbers.
at +2 she is 120. And pricked myself as well, multiple times :). She started shaking like almost convulsing in her sleep and I got scared and shook her. After that I realized she was dreaming because she woke up meowing a complaint about bad manners of the stupid bean. If I go by her nadir, do I need to take into account the PMPS 69 value?
 
Just remember any dosing advice you read about in the stickies are based on HUMAN meters and if using AT2 your numbers will always be higher than the numbers they are advising on for the stickies. Mid to high 100s on AT2 like you mentioned would be low to mid 100s on human meter which are what the advice in stickies are based on.

You may want to consider trying human meter and using AT2 to double check really low numbers, that is what I am doing now. Fought switching to human meter because it was not the “real” cat number, but now I am glad I switched, so much cheaper for strips. And you don’t have to worry about trying to figure in the difference when people are advising doses and they are thinking in “human” numbers.

Also was funny, when I switched everyone immediately commented on how much better the numbers looked. Really the only thing that changed was the meter, they just see the AT2 numbers and always think they are too high (compared to the lower human meter numbers they are used to).
One reason I prefer the pet meter is the sample amount that is 0.3 compared to human ones that ask for 0.5. Also, I have hundreds of strips for pet meter. When they told us she will have diabetes for the rest of her life, we got in preppie mode :)
 
That 69 earns a reduction, since you are following SLGS. You should go back to 1.25u.
I think so too, but definitely need to take the dry food away. Her values can get so much better if she would just listen to me when I tell her how bad is the junk food for her health :)
I thought she earns a reduction after a decent amount of days spent on that dose. I know I wished her to get better as my Christmas gift, but did not think it would actually catch me completely by surprise.
 
I thought she earns a reduction after a decent amount of days spent on that dose.
Per the SLGS guidelines, you reduce immediately if you have any numbers are under 90. Hard to say what she did earlier in the cycle, she may have been lower. Pity that it happened when you just increased, but better to be safe and take the reduction. Even more so if you are considering removing dry food from the equation.
 
Per the SLGS guidelines, you reduce immediately if you have any numbers are under 90. Hard to say what she did earlier in the cycle, she may have been lower. Pity that it happened when you just increased, but better to be safe and take the reduction. Even more so if you are considering removing dry food from the equation.
Yes, I think it worth the risk and reduce the dose. Since I am staying at home for the rest of the week, I will make sure the dry food goes away as well. It will be so nice to get rid of the Famotidine from her schedule :)
 
You might want to re-read the SLGS sticky, it gives a good run down of what to do if you see a preshot number that is lower than usual, for the future. Keep in mind they are just general guidelines, SLGS can be modified when a caregiver gets a better understanding of how their kitty responds to insulin and when you gather enough data :) as it says in the sticky, let your own personal experience with your cat be your guide.
 
OMG guys look at Mallie as well. Low 100s in the morning, low in the evening. These kitties are trying to say something?:eek:
Blaze too...see @Sarah and Blaze - another one that may not get his PM shot - he has a history of going low and then lower, lower, lower...likes to give him mama a run for her money late at night... I think she too is going to pass this evening...

Ya'll can commiserate ...as I'm going to be heading off to bed shortly. Glad to see @Christie & Maverick are here to help ya'll through the rest of the evening...
 
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