11/7 Lovey PMBG +13.5 84 PMBG +15 100
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julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: Lovey PMPS 156 ? Lowest so Far?
a lower preshot is like a little gift - it's an opportunity to lower and flatten the whole cycle. you shot a 170 yesterday and this isn't much different.
i guess my only hesitation is that we don't know if this is a dropping number. i'd probably wait 15 minutes and check again, if it's about the same or going up, i'd give the whole dose, then as you said, get a +1 and +2.
a lower preshot is like a little gift - it's an opportunity to lower and flatten the whole cycle. you shot a 170 yesterday and this isn't much different.
i guess my only hesitation is that we don't know if this is a dropping number. i'd probably wait 15 minutes and check again, if it's about the same or going up, i'd give the whole dose, then as you said, get a +1 and +2.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ?
not likely, it takes 20ish or more minutes to change the BGs in most cats.
not likely, it takes 20ish or more minutes to change the BGs in most cats.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ?
i'll hang around and wait for your test.
i'll hang around and wait for your test.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ?
mmmmmmm
well . . . it's not a low number. even considering this is an AT, that puts it around 100 on a regular meter. however, you don't have that much data on Lovey and she's kinda all over the map today.
i can't promise to stay with you, either. i have to go out shortly and will be gone all evening.
here's the link on Low Preshots - but again, this isn't a low number, but it's a little lower than it was. not much, though.
you can tell i'm waffling. if she were mine, i would shoot her. but i was confident about what punkin did and how to handle low numbers. i guess that's the question - are you comfortable handling low numbers tonight if you need to?
mmmmmmm
well . . . it's not a low number. even considering this is an AT, that puts it around 100 on a regular meter. however, you don't have that much data on Lovey and she's kinda all over the map today.
i can't promise to stay with you, either. i have to go out shortly and will be gone all evening.
here's the link on Low Preshots - but again, this isn't a low number, but it's a little lower than it was. not much, though.
you can tell i'm waffling. if she were mine, i would shoot her. but i was confident about what punkin did and how to handle low numbers. i guess that's the question - are you comfortable handling low numbers tonight if you need to?
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? Shoot full dose?
i've asked for a second opinion, catherine.
i've asked for a second opinion, catherine.
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? Shoot full dose?
Catherine
I'll be around tonight to help you. Keep in mind that if you shoot a reduced dose, this cycle is likely to look as it would any way so you will still need to be vigilant. The effects will be seen, perhaps, late in this cycle or in tomorrow's cycle.
I need to look at Lovey's SS but if you are stalling, just remember to not feed. BRB.
Catherine
I'll be around tonight to help you. Keep in mind that if you shoot a reduced dose, this cycle is likely to look as it would any way so you will still need to be vigilant. The effects will be seen, perhaps, late in this cycle or in tomorrow's cycle.
I need to look at Lovey's SS but if you are stalling, just remember to not feed. BRB.
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? Shoot full dose?
You shot a 170 at this dose yesterday morning. There's not a lot of difference in these numbers.
If you have supplies, if you can stay up and test, and if you are up to shooting, it might be worth the try. I think you will see the same cycle shooting 2.5u as 2.75u. If you continue to stall, she could continue to drop and then you might feel the need to skip.
It's up to you. As I said, I can stay with you if you want to shoot. If you do shoot, you'll need to get a +1 and +2.
BTW, Lovey does seem to be clearing a bounce so she could very well come lower but we want good numbers :mrgreen: I got your back either way you choose.
You shot a 170 at this dose yesterday morning. There's not a lot of difference in these numbers.
If you have supplies, if you can stay up and test, and if you are up to shooting, it might be worth the try. I think you will see the same cycle shooting 2.5u as 2.75u. If you continue to stall, she could continue to drop and then you might feel the need to skip.
It's up to you. As I said, I can stay with you if you want to shoot. If you do shoot, you'll need to get a +1 and +2.
BTW, Lovey does seem to be clearing a bounce so she could very well come lower but we want good numbers :mrgreen: I got your back either way you choose.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? Shoot full dose?
thanks for looking, marje. :YMHUG:
i'm headed out now for the rest of the evening.
thanks for looking, marje. :YMHUG:
i'm headed out now for the rest of the evening.
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? Shoot full dose?
If I had to guess, she went up after the 170.....at least eventually. She might go up tonight but, as I said, if a bounce is clearing, I would be prepared for lower numbers.
Remember that you are in control. I'll watch for you and if the numbers start coming down, I'll suggest what you should feed; then we'll retest. We can monitor closely. We have food for tools as long as you have some HC gravy and/or karo/syrup/honey and plenty of test strips.
How much did you feed her and was it LC? It's been about an hour now, right? I'd retest and see where she is.
If I had to guess, she went up after the 170.....at least eventually. She might go up tonight but, as I said, if a bounce is clearing, I would be prepared for lower numbers.
Remember that you are in control. I'll watch for you and if the numbers start coming down, I'll suggest what you should feed; then we'll retest. We can monitor closely. We have food for tools as long as you have some HC gravy and/or karo/syrup/honey and plenty of test strips.
How much did you feed her and was it LC? It's been about an hour now, right? I'd retest and see where she is.
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? Shoot full dose?
Ok...can you test her for me, please? Let's see if she is still headed down.
Julie: you're welcome, my friend Have fun tonight!
Ok...can you test her for me, please? Let's see if she is still headed down.
Julie: you're welcome, my friend
Have fun tonight!
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? Shoot full dose?
This is what I mean by stalling and the numbers keep dropping. IMHO, if you have data (and you have some although not much at lower numbers), you are better off shooting a safe number like you initially got and then feeding as that helps bring numbers up.
Now you are in the position of her continuing to drop to a point where you might not feel comfortable shooting. How much longer can you stall knowing you have to shoot about 12 hours from when you shoot tonight.
This is what I mean by stalling and the numbers keep dropping. IMHO, if you have data (and you have some although not much at lower numbers), you are better off shooting a safe number like you initially got and then feeding as that helps bring numbers up.
Now you are in the position of her continuing to drop to a point where you might not feel comfortable shooting. How much longer can you stall knowing you have to shoot about 12 hours from when you shoot tonight.
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? Shoot full dose?
She is still at a safe number to shoot although it would be your first green number. If you know she will eat, you can stay up and test, and you want to shoot, I would do so now before she drops any more. Once you shoot, feed her a good portion of food and get a +1.
You can also continue to stall if you want, or, if you want to try a reduced dose, you can as long as you can still monitor. Your call. I'll be here for you.
She is still at a safe number to shoot although it would be your first green number. If you know she will eat, you can stay up and test, and you want to shoot, I would do so now before she drops any more. Once you shoot, feed her a good portion of food and get a +1.
You can also continue to stall if you want, or, if you want to try a reduced dose, you can as long as you can still monitor. Your call. I'll be here for you.
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? 107? Shoot full dose?
Absolutely. But you still need to get a +1 and +2.
Absolutely. But you still need to get a +1 and +2.
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? 107? Shoot full dose?
Oh...sorry...I thought you wanted to shoot 1u.
IMHO, I probably would not shoot less than 2u. If shooting a reduced dose is the way you want to go, you don't want to reduce so much that you overly drain the depot.
Oh...sorry...I thought you wanted to shoot 1u.
IMHO, I probably would not shoot less than 2u. If shooting a reduced dose is the way you want to go, you don't want to reduce so much that you overly drain the depot.
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? 107? Shoot full dose?
Yes, you will.
I really want to be honest....in cases where you have supplies and can test, the best thing for Lovey is to shoot the full dose on time provided she is at a safe BG (typically above 80 on the AT; above 50 on human meter). Shooting a reduced dose, skipping, stalling...those are all things we can do if we don't have supplies, we are sick or tired, can't be there or stay up to test, etc.
But I know it is scary. If it's being scared that has you wanting to reduce the dose or skip, I promise I will not leave you. I've walked many, many people safely through this....even if we are up all night. But if it's work, lack of supplies, need sleep, don't feel well, then you should definitely reduce or skip because we need to keep her safe....which means you have to test and potentially feed the curve.
eta: it's ok to be scared. We've all been there....shooting low the first time is scary for all of us. And we should be because then we will be extra careful and stay extra safe. The ones I worry most about are those that shoot low numbers from the get-go with no data and no caution.
Yes, you will.
I really want to be honest....in cases where you have supplies and can test, the best thing for Lovey is to shoot the full dose on time provided she is at a safe BG (typically above 80 on the AT; above 50 on human meter). Shooting a reduced dose, skipping, stalling...those are all things we can do if we don't have supplies, we are sick or tired, can't be there or stay up to test, etc.
But I know it is scary. If it's being scared that has you wanting to reduce the dose or skip, I promise I will not leave you. I've walked many, many people safely through this....even if we are up all night. But if it's work, lack of supplies, need sleep, don't feel well, then you should definitely reduce or skip because we need to keep her safe....which means you have to test and potentially feed the curve.
eta: it's ok to be scared. We've all been there....shooting low the first time is scary for all of us. And we should be because then we will be extra careful and stay extra safe. The ones I worry most about are those that shoot low numbers from the get-go with no data and no caution.
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? 107? Shoot full dose?
Ok...you better skip. I'd feed her, get a test in an hour and be sure she is coming up, and get a good nights rest.
You can shoot her full dose on time in the morning as long as she has come up.
Sound good?
Ok...you better skip. I'd feed her, get a test in an hour and be sure she is coming up, and get a good nights rest.
You can shoot her full dose on time in the morning as long as she has come up.
Sound good?
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? 107/ 84? Shoot full dose
If she goes below 80 (because you are using an AT) you should reduce but since you skipped, you should feed her. Hopefully, between the food and the waning insulin, she will head up.
So I'd suggest feed her (if you haven't) and test in one hour....or, if you are worried...test in 30 mins. That's fine, too. We do want to see her on the way up.
If she goes below 80 (because you are using an AT) you should reduce but since you skipped, you should feed her. Hopefully, between the food and the waning insulin, she will head up.
So I'd suggest feed her (if you haven't) and test in one hour....or, if you are worried...test in 30 mins. That's fine, too. We do want to see her on the way up.
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? 107/ 84? Shoot full dose
Yes.....feed her again because we want her numbers coming up. And let's go ahead and test her 30 mins after you feed.
When you are done feeding, could you please change the subject line to PMBG 84 and then when you get the test after she eats, you would record it as the number of hours since her last shot. So if it's 1.5 hours since your normal shot time and 12 hours since you last shot, it would be PMBG 84 +13.5 XX with XX being her BG.
I'll be looking but I just have to shoot Gracie now be back in 15....don't forget to feed her now
Yes.....feed her again because we want her numbers coming up. And let's go ahead and test her 30 mins after you feed.
When you are done feeding, could you please change the subject line to PMBG 84 and then when you get the test after she eats, you would record it as the number of hours since her last shot. So if it's 1.5 hours since your normal shot time and 12 hours since you last shot, it would be PMBG 84 +13.5 XX with XX being her BG.
I'll be looking but I just have to shoot Gracie now be back in 15....don't forget to feed her now
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? 107/ 84? Shoot full dose
Everything ok there? Just checking before i shoot
Everything ok there? Just checking before i shoot
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 ? Now 136? 107/ 84? Shoot full dose
You're welcome!
I always like to be sure we follow up with something akin to an "after action report". Our goal here is to help you but also to teach so that if you wind up in a similar situation by yourself, you will know what to do.
First, I understand you work and so some of my suggestions might not be possible on work days.
While our primary goal in testing is to keep our kitties safe, it also allows us to become "data ready". For instance, it's good to alternatively get +1 and +2 tests. Why? Because it lets us see if Lovey gets a food spike after you test and feed. Why is that important? Because if you are shooting a dropping number, you will know whether she will come up from a food spike. Some cats pretty habitually get a food spike after their shot/feed time; some do not; some can't decide so they will...or won't still...good info to know. You don't need both those tests every cycle but some +1 tests occasionally gives you good data.
The other good tests, when you are able, are +10 or +11. Why? Because they tell us if we are possibly shooting a dropping number Shooting dropping numbers can be an excellent way to take advantage of carryover and overlap and maximize the insulin but it's something that needs to be learned how to do and you need a little data (like knowing what she does at +1 and +2).
Remember.....a dropping number is seen when the BG comes down from one PS to the next so the lowest number is at a PS. That is different from a second dip. If the BG comes down to a nadir, then rises, then comes back down at the end of the cycle (but not lower than the nadir), then it is a second dip. The latter is safe to shoot full dose, on time as long as the BG is above 80 (AT) or 50 on a human glucometer provided you have data, supplies, and can test.
So, could we have done differently tonight? I think it was very smart to retest 15-20 minutes after the initial test to see if she was dropping....and she was. As high as she was after the second test (136), it would have been a good option to shoot the full dose at that time (if you had supplies and could be up to test), FEED, get a +1 and +2. Might she have continued to drop after feeding? Possibly...but you have to learn to deal with low numbers and the best time is when you are able to test and there are people around to help.
Once she got to 84 (AT), I felt it was no longer safe for you to shoot with no data. Ideally, you shoot a 136 and learn to deal with low numbers from a higher start then have to fight the curve from the get go. Does that make sense?
She might be high tomorrow....don't worry!!! Just think of it as a fur shot. She'll get back to business in a few cycles.
We just use every opportunity to learn.
Great job, Catherine!!!
You're welcome!
I always like to be sure we follow up with something akin to an "after action report". Our goal here is to help you but also to teach so that if you wind up in a similar situation by yourself, you will know what to do.
First, I understand you work and so some of my suggestions might not be possible on work days.
While our primary goal in testing is to keep our kitties safe, it also allows us to become "data ready". For instance, it's good to alternatively get +1 and +2 tests. Why? Because it lets us see if Lovey gets a food spike after you test and feed. Why is that important? Because if you are shooting a dropping number, you will know whether she will come up from a food spike. Some cats pretty habitually get a food spike after their shot/feed time; some do not; some can't decide so they will...or won't
still...good info to know. You don't need both those tests every cycle but some +1 tests occasionally gives you good data.The other good tests, when you are able, are +10 or +11. Why? Because they tell us if we are possibly shooting a dropping number
Shooting dropping numbers can be an excellent way to take advantage of carryover and overlap and maximize the insulin but it's something that needs to be learned how to do and you need a little data (like knowing what she does at +1 and +2).Remember.....a dropping number is seen when the BG comes down from one PS to the next so the lowest number is at a PS. That is different from a second dip. If the BG comes down to a nadir, then rises, then comes back down at the end of the cycle (but not lower than the nadir), then it is a second dip. The latter is safe to shoot full dose, on time as long as the BG is above 80 (AT) or 50 on a human glucometer provided you have data, supplies, and can test.
So, could we have done differently tonight? I think it was very smart to retest 15-20 minutes after the initial test to see if she was dropping....and she was. As high as she was after the second test (136), it would have been a good option to shoot the full dose at that time (if you had supplies and could be up to test), FEED, get a +1 and +2. Might she have continued to drop after feeding? Possibly...but you have to learn to deal with low numbers and the best time is when you are able to test and there are people around to help.
Once she got to 84 (AT), I felt it was no longer safe for you to shoot with no data. Ideally, you shoot a 136 and learn to deal with low numbers from a higher start then have to fight the curve from the get go. Does that make sense?
She might be high tomorrow....don't worry!!! Just think of it as a fur shot. She'll get back to business in a few cycles.
We just use every opportunity to learn.
Great job, Catherine!!!
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 PMBG +13.5 84 PMBG +15 100
Hi Marje, Thanks for the information. I can get +10 and +11 after work on most days. Lovey is so bouncy that sometimes her numbers are just bounces so it is hard to make sense if it is a food spike, a high number, or what. I have gotten some nice blues at +8 so she may have been a little lower earlier than that.
I fed Lovey half a can of fancy feast and she her BG was 100 at +15. Based on this, she doesn't seem like a food spiker or did the food not register yet?
What do you think my dose for tomorrow should be?
Hi Marje, Thanks for the information. I can get +10 and +11 after work on most days. Lovey is so bouncy that sometimes her numbers are just bounces so it is hard to make sense if it is a food spike, a high number, or what. I have gotten some nice blues at +8 so she may have been a little lower earlier than that.
I fed Lovey half a can of fancy feast and she her BG was 100 at +15. Based on this, she doesn't seem like a food spiker or did the food not register yet?
What do you think my dose for tomorrow should be?
Re: 11/7 Lovey PMPS 156 PMBG +13.5 84 PMBG +15 100
Cool...glad to see she is coming up!!
I'd just get a before bed test....feed as you normally would.
And it's ok to take the PMPS 156 down. We only use PMPS or AMPS if we shoot. If you want to leave the 156, you can put +12 in place of the PMPS
eta: we cross posted. I'd leave her dose the same. She didn't earn a reduction....although she was close...but not quite there.
If she's high in the morning, you can shoot on time and get back on schedule. I'd be sure and get an out the door test or if DH is around to test, he can spot check her.
If you don't want to shoot early or she isn't higher, then you can use this info on Getting back on schedule. Pls let me know if you have questions.
Cool...glad to see she is coming up!!
I'd just get a before bed test....feed as you normally would.
And it's ok to take the PMPS 156 down. We only use PMPS or AMPS if we shoot. If you want to leave the 156, you can put +12 in place of the PMPS
eta: we cross posted. I'd leave her dose the same. She didn't earn a reduction....although she was close...but not quite there.
If she's high in the morning, you can shoot on time and get back on schedule. I'd be sure and get an out the door test or if DH is around to test, he can spot check her.
If you don't want to shoot early or she isn't higher, then you can use this info on Getting back on schedule. Pls let me know if you have questions.
Would the 84 be considered a nadir? If I didn't feed, it may have gone lower right? I have been trying to figure out if this was a good dose, but I haven't tested around the nadir always. Sometimes I oversleep and test at +7 or +8 and may have missed it since it is pretty late.
It was a nadir but a lot of time, the numbers when a bounce clears, are a little lower.
It's always harder to collect enough data to see the patterns when you work....but that's just the way it is. I'd take the weekends or days off to try and get a few more tests to see if you can figure out some patterns.
It's hard to know whether the BG would have continued down if you hadn't fed. Typically, if a cat is ready for a reduction, feeding LC will not keep the numbers up.....they'll still earn a reduction.
It's always harder to collect enough data to see the patterns when you work....but that's just the way it is. I'd take the weekends or days off to try and get a few more tests to see if you can figure out some patterns.
It's hard to know whether the BG would have continued down if you hadn't fed. Typically, if a cat is ready for a reduction, feeding LC will not keep the numbers up.....they'll still earn a reduction.
Her bounces are only lasting one cycle lately so I don't know if this was a bounce or not. Yes, I will try to get some more tests in this weekend. I need more information. Last Saturday night I did a full curve but it was a bounce or high day so I didn't get helpful data to evaluate the dose.
Thanks again for your help tonight. I appreciate it!
Thanks again for your help tonight. I appreciate it!
I definitely think she was clearing a bounce today....they can bounce off of lower (not necessarily even low) numbers or big drops.
On her SS, the best easy to enter the stall tonight is:
--in the +11 column, put "156 @ 12; 136 @12.5; 107 @ 13"
--in the PMPS column, put "84 @ 13.5"
-- in the "units" column, put "NS" for "no shot"
--in the +3 column, put "100"
You're welcome....happy to help. Hope you get some rest.
On her SS, the best easy to enter the stall tonight is:
--in the +11 column, put "156 @ 12; 136 @12.5; 107 @ 13"
--in the PMPS column, put "84 @ 13.5"
-- in the "units" column, put "NS" for "no shot"
--in the +3 column, put "100"
You're welcome....happy to help. Hope you get some rest.
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