11.03 New Member - Richard. Setup and food questions.

Alex&Richard

Alex&Richard

Member Since 2026
08.03 initial post in Lantus board

Hi,
Intro
About Ricard: 10.5 year, Male, European Burmese, 5.7 kg, has ketones in blood. Richard was diagnosed ~month ago with DKA and diabetes, spent few weeks at a hospital and we are still struggling to get him regulated. I've originally posted in Lantus board and they've suggested to start here with settings things up and general questions.
I'm using both CGM (Dexcom one+, terrible at high, but quite precise below 200) and human meter for manual checks. Also checking blood for ketones daily.

Setting up
I've created a spreadsheet & signature already and would be grateful for any advice on improving them.

Food question
I'd also would like to ask for help with understanding the carbohydrates percentage for the food we are using (we are from Europe, so US charts might not be suitable). We are feeding Royal Canine wet (diabetic & jelly) at the moment . Here are stats from official website (stats on the actual pouches we have are slightly off, but not more than ~0.5% in total. +0.1% here, -0.1% there, so mostly same):

Royal Canine Diabetic
Analytical constituents: Protein: 8.9% - Fat content: 3.2% - Crude ash: 1.7% - Crude fibres: 1.1% - Moisture: 82.5% - Essential fatty acids: 0.54% - Total sugars: 1.3% - Starch: 1.2% - source of carbohydrates: modified corn starch - rice.
Composition: Poultry by-products, pork by-products, pork blood products, modified maize starch, hydrolysed pork gelatin, powdered cellulose, minerals, fish oil, marigold extract (source of lutein).
Does it it mean 2.5% carb (sugar + scratch)?
Calc gives 2.6% as-fed and 13.5% ME, so I assume this is not really good low-carb?

Royal Canine Instinctive Jelly
Analytical constituents: Protein: 11.8% - Fat content: 4.5% - Crude ash: 1.5% - Crude fibres: 0.8% - Moisture: 80.0%.
Composition: meat and animal derivatives, vegetable protein extracts, derivatives of vegetable origin, oils and fats, minerals, various sugars.
Calc gives 1.4% as-fed and 6% ME. So is it better than diabetic carbs vise? Various sugars sounds fishy.

Royal canine Sterilized Jelly
Analytical constituents: Protein: 9.0% - Fat content: 2.6% - Crude ash: 1.4% - Crude fibres: 1.6% - Moisture: 81.0%.
Composition: meat and animal derivatives, cereals, derivatives of vegetable origin, vegetable protein extracts, minerals, various sugars.
Calc gives 4.4% as-fed and 22% ME. It is high carb and should be avoided, right?

Is any of the above options suitable for diabetic cat? Richard completely ignore anything pate-like, so slices are the only option, and there is not much food here offered in slices. He don't mind boiled chicken or beef though, so meat chunks is also an option, but I'm not sure we are ready for raw/homemade food. Looks like most of the commercial food we have here is more than 10% carbs.

I can try to buy & feed something like this (they all seems similar, chicken + 5% something):
Canagan chicken wtih duck in broth
Analytical constituents: Crude Protein 16.5%, Crude Fat 3%, Crude Fibre 0.5%, Crude Ash 2%, Moisture 77%.
Composition: Chicken Breast (58%), Chicken Broth (31%), Duck (5%), Sunflower Oil, Thickening Agent (Tapioca) and Minerals.
Calc gives 1.0% as-fed, 4% ME. Is protein content too high in such case? Does it look like a proper diet?


Has anyone had used (successfully :)) low carb options from any of the below brands and can recommend it (no pate, just slices or meat chunks)?:
Aatas, Advance, Amanova, Animonda, Applaws, Benek, Bewi Cat, Bozita, Brit, Butcher's, Calibra, Canagan, Carnilove, Club 4 Paws, Comfy, Delickcious, Dr petcare, Encore, Eukanuba, Farmina, GimCat, Gussto, Hill's, Iams, Inaba Josera, Katido, Kattovit, Kimo, Leonardo, Life, Mac's, Market, Miamor, Monge, My Love, Natua, Oasy, Optimeal, Perfect fit, Piper, Pramy, Raw paleo, Royal Canin, Royal Canin VD, Specifinis, Trovet, VetExpert, Virbac, Vitakraft, Whiskas, Woolf


I'd be VERY happy for any advice/recommendation regarding food selection.

With best regards,
Alex
 
Last edited:
Welcome to FDMB
Well, I can say congratulations! you are definitely way ahead from many newbies. The first questions I will ask is this? have you ever known of a diabetic human eat diabetic foods? I know you know the answer, and for cats is the same principle, there's no such thing as a diabetic cat food wet or dry, to know what carb % you are feeding I attached a link to a carb calculator, we are looking for Dry Matter Carb, all these foods you have posted are like poison to Richard, I can see why his glucose levels are high, besides the Ketones this mostly keeps BG's high, a Vet "prescribe" these foods, knowing or not the content of carbs, a sales person sales it the vet he makes commission, the vet sales it to you the vet makes commission, unfortunately some vets do not do research on these foods; so here is what I found out with the ingredient % you gave remember we are looking for Dry Carb Matter

Royal Canin wet diabetic = 82.5% carbs / RC Instinctive Jelly =81.9 % carbs/ RC Sterilized Jelly = 86.8% carbs / Cangan Chicken w/Duck broth = 4.3% carbs

diabetic cats need to have a diet of wet can or raw foods between 0-10% carbs, a feeding schedule is important the two main meals before each shot and at least 3-4 small meals or snacks during the day, Lantus is a Depot insulin, and Richard, having Ketones is important he eats well, in some instances with Ketones I have read that is important to eat a lot and carb content is not as important as getting rid of the Ketones, this is a main reason for such high levels as well.
Transitioning from high carbs to low carbs need to be a slow process since it can upset Richard's stomach and can make the glucose levels dive down, I hope I was able to answer some of your concerns I will tag a member that can give you a great input in Ketones and Lantus dosing advice, We are here for you, you are not alone 🤗
@Christie & Maverick
@Wendy&Neko

Links to FOOD CHARTS
 
Hi @CORKY,

Thank you for the input!
I think you might have missed the moisture part. When I enter the constituents including moisture into the calc, here is what i get for e.g. Royal Canine diabetic:
Carbohydrates (as-fed): 2.6%
Carbohydrates (dry matter): 14.9%
% ME Protein (est.): 46.18%
% ME Fat (est.): 40.33%
% ME Carbs (est.): 13.49%
Calories per 100 g (est.): 67 kcal
Calories per ounce (est.): 19 kcal

14.9% dry carbs is above 10, so not ideal, but definitely not 80+. So I'd say he is not that high carb already.

I'm feeding main meals right after the pre-shot tests, and leave food available for 6-7 more hours for snacking (he usually eats a bit around +4-+6 during the day, sleeps at night though).

Any advice on dealing with Ketones and going to better glucose levels are very appreciated.
 
Alex&Richard said:
Hi @CORKY,

Thank you for the input!
I think you might have missed the moisture part. When I enter the constituents including moisture into the calc, here is what i get for e.g. Royal Canine diabetic:
Carbohydrates (as-fed): 2.6%
Carbohydrates (dry matter): 14.9%
% ME Protein (est.): 46.18%
% ME Fat (est.): 40.33%
% ME Carbs (est.): 13.49%
Calories per 100 g (est.): 67 kcal
Calories per ounce (est.): 19 kcal

14.9% dry carbs is above 10, so not ideal, but definitely not 80+. So I'd say he is not that high carb already.

I'm feeding main meals right after the pre-shot tests, and leave food available for 6-7 more hours for snacking (he usually eats a bit around +4-+6 during the day, sleeps at night though).

Any advice on dealing with Ketones and going to better glucose levels are very appreciated.
Click to expand...
sorry for the error, but still the 14.9% is medium carbs., I have never delt with Ketones but I do know that a lot of food helps ketones go away let me tag a member that has outstanding knowledge on cats' medical illnesses
0-10% low carbs / 11-15% medium carbs / 16-24+ High carbs
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
 
Royal Canin is medium to high carb food -- even the supposedly "diabetic" prescription food.

Are you in the UK? I'm attaching a link to a UK food list. If you're not in the UK, some of the brands you noted are on this list.

We have information on ketones in this post. There are a few important aspects when dealing with ketones. Ketones result from not enough insulin, not enough calories, and the presence of an inflammation or infection. It's important that a cat with ketones eats. Sometimes, the ketones have an impact on appetite and an appetite stimulant prescribed by your vet may help. It may also be a matter of feeding several smaller meals throughout the day. Bottom line, though, calories are key. With not eating enough, your cat burns stored fat which produces the ketones.

If your cat's appetite is off, there's often a response of not wanting to give insulin because blood glucose numbers may drop due to the cat not eating. While the logic makes sense, the lack of insulin is a problem when it comes to dealing with the ketones. It would be better to give your cat a higher carb food and give insulin than to skip the insulin.

Hopefully, your vet got blood work on your cat and if there was an infection or inflammation, it's being treated. One of the tell tale signs I consider with a cat that is recovering from ketones/DKA, is whether the cat is lethargic. Stay vigilant to your cat's behavior. Some cats really struggle to overcome ketones so if you think something is "off," talk to your vet or get your cat in to be seen. You can test for ketones at home and I consider this essential to keeping a ketone prone cat safe. There are urine test strips as well as blood ketone meters.

Most of the members here use the FreeStyle Libre CGM. It's less than wonderful if numbers are high or below 100. It sounds like the Dexcom has similar issues. We encourage members to have a hand held glucometer as a backup. It's the best way to verify your results from the CGM. In addition, it's inevitable that your cat will remove the sensor or it will stop working at the worst possible time. Having a backup will make life a bit easier for you should that happen at some ridiculous time of the night or a holiday when nothing is open where you can buy a sensor.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Royal Canin is medium to high carb food -- even the supposedly "diabetic" prescription food.

Are you in the UK? I'm attaching a link to a UK food list. If you're not in the UK, some of the brands you noted are on this list.

We have information on ketones in this post. There are a few important aspects when dealing with ketones. Ketones result from not enough insulin, not enough calories, and the presence of an inflammation or infection. It's important that a cat with ketones eats. Sometimes, the ketones have an impact on appetite and an appetite stimulant prescribed by your vet may help. It may also be a matter of feeding several smaller meals throughout the day. Bottom line, though, calories are key. With not eating enough, your cat burns stored fat which produces the ketones.

If your cat's appetite is off, there's often a response of not wanting to give insulin because blood glucose numbers may drop due to the cat not eating. While the logic makes sense, the lack of insulin is a problem when it comes to dealing with the ketones. It would be better to give your cat a higher carb food and give insulin than to skip the insulin.

Hopefully, your vet got blood work on your cat and if there was an infection or inflammation, it's being treated. One of the tell tale signs I consider with a cat that is recovering from ketones/DKA, is whether the cat is lethargic. Stay vigilant to your cat's behavior. Some cats really struggle to overcome ketones so if you think something is "off," talk to your vet or get your cat in to be seen. You can test for ketones at home and I consider this essential to keeping a ketone prone cat safe. There are urine test strips as well as blood ketone meters.

Most of the members here use the FreeStyle Libre CGM. It's less than wonderful if numbers are high or below 100. It sounds like the Dexcom has similar issues. We encourage members to have a hand held glucometer as a backup. It's the best way to verify your results from the CGM. In addition, it's inevitable that your cat will remove the sensor or it will stop working at the worst possible time. Having a backup will make life a bit easier for you should that happen at some ridiculous time of the night or a holiday when nothing is open where you can buy a sensor.
Click to expand...

Thank you @Sienne and Gabby (GA),
I'm in Lithuania. I've tried to give him some other brands, but he refused to eat them, so sticking with royal canine for now. Also many of them are pate, and it is completely no-go. Chunks/slices is the only form he is willing to eat.

I test his blood for ketones daily and glucose manually at both pre-shots and at random spots through days (3-4 checks in total per day).

He actually eats more than usual past few days. We've did blood & urine test a few days ago, ultrasound - no signs of abnormalities, except for high glucose and slightly lowered potassium - so I'm giving him supplements. He did not have ketones in urine, but blood meter showed 1.8 at the time. He actually has never cleared ketones in blood completely since his DKA a month ago. Best was 0.4 in blood.

He is active, likes to play, no vomiting etc.
 
Last edited:
You might want to include that you're in Lithuania in your signature. Your English is excellent and I suspect that people will assume you're in the US or the UK. It gets a bit repetitive if we keep suggesting resources that aren't available in your country.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top