10/26 Spencer AMPS 344, +7 148, +10 184, PMPS 199 +1 201 NS

FrickAndFrack

FrickAndFrack

Member Since 2020
Good Day!

Spencer is back up to 344 this morning despite being at 251 last night.

We have another cat, so we leave some dry food out overnight (she is used to grazing and will wake us if she is hungry at night). I assume he also ate some of the dry food which would expect his high number?! Not much was gone from the bowl, but it probably doesn't take much.

How do others handle the multiple cats/various food situation?

Yesterday's thread: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...4-new-low-pmps-251-3-208.237494/#post-2666616
 
I bought one microchip Sure Feed each for my two critters. It took them both a few days to acclimate to the sound and the frustration of not being able to freely eat from any bowl, but now I have my civvie's crunchies in a locked feeder where Ruby can't get to them. The feeders are expensive but worth it in my opinion because I don't have to wonder about what happens at night to the food when I'm not looking. I would put the dry food in a feeder for your healthy cat so that your sugar baby can't get to it.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
I bought one microchip Sure Feed each for my two critters. It took them both a few days to acclimate to the sound and the frustration of not being able to freely eat from any bowl, but now I have my civvie's crunchies in a locked feeder where Ruby can't get to them. The feeders are expensive but worth it in my opinion because I don't have to wonder about what happens at night to the food when I'm not looking. I would put the dry food in a feeder for your healthy cat so that your sugar baby can't get to it.
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Thank you, we will look into an auto feeder, though I am not sure it's in the budget for now (maybe a good Christmas present though!). Our Piper girl knows that the wet food is not meant for her, but its oh so hard to resist! We will probably resort to only leaving a can of wet food out over night and then monitoring them when we feed during the day.
 
I also see a 208 @+3 on your spreadsheet last night. Excellent job getting that before bed test in. :woot:

Your +3 was lower than your PMPS. When a +3 is lower or the same as a preshot number, this is often a sign that a cat will have an active cycle, that is, they may go into even lower numbers. So it's possible that the 341 this morning could be due to him bouncing high from lower numbers overnight. Without more tests, we don't know how low Spencer really got last night, though.

Here is a paragraph that explains bouncing, taken from this sticky:

Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

Just something to think about. I see you're pretty new, so welcome to the board! I'm sure you've been inundated with lots of info.:) Over time, as you start to collect more BG data on Spencer, including some nighttime tests we will be able to see if he is in fact bouncing, or whether he helped himself to the dry food, or maybe a bit of both!
 
Yes still learning for sure! Thank you for the info on "bouncing". I had read people refer to "bouncy cats", but didn't have a good idea of what was meant. We will try to get more post-shot data.

It's nice to know that his 344 came right down to 148 again at +7, we will see what PMPS value gives us. Maybe tonight will be a night to monitor him more frequently.
 
You're doing a fab job! Yes, bouncing/bouncy cats are a popular topic of conversation around the board. When you have a chance, start clicking on the spreadsheets of other people's kitties and looking at their data. That was one of my favourite ways to learn when I first joined, and it still is.

Tonight could be. Only time will tell. I know you've been advised on this before but it can't hurt to mention it again, just in case;): if Spencer is still below 200 at PMPS, it is recommended that you post the number here first and ask for help before shooting insulin. People will help you decide on whether to shoot a full/partial/no dose. It'll depend on his numbers but also on your ability to stay up to test him, your test strips supply, and your stock of mid carb and high carb foods and karo/honey.
 
Thank you so much! Everything for our Snugglemuffin!

Yes, I've been reading people's spreadsheets here and there. My biggest takeaway is that every cat is different and that just when it starts to seem predictable everything can change :P

We will do PMPS in 2 hours and if we are anywhere near 200 we will post here before shooting!
 
So here we are, PMPS of 199. Plenty of test strips, honey on hand, no Karo, no syringes, high carb dry food only...willingness to stay up, but nervous too...please advise to shoot or not!?
 
Normally until you get an idea of how food influences numbers, it is best to withhold food 2 hours before shot, in case the carbs artificially inflates the preshot number. With SLGS we actually do suggest you can shoot above 150, so I would shoot. I can't stay up with you, but I would suggest getting a +2 to see where the cycle is going, and post here if you need help. Up to you.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
Normally until you get an idea of how food influences numbers, it is best to withhold food 2 hours before shot, in case the carbs artificially inflates the preshot number. With SLGS we actually do suggest you can shoot above 150, so I would shoot. I can't stay up with you, but I would suggest getting a +2 to see where the cycle is going, and post here if you need help. Up to you.
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We do withhold food pre shot. So he did not eat from +10 to PMPS. After the 199 read I figured if he is hungry, which he was, I'll give him his bowl back.
 
Another little tip, if you aren't sure about shooting the number you get at preshot, it is best to stall, not feed and test again in 20 minutes to see if the number is rising on its own. What did he eat before +10, was it dry food?
 
Christie & Maverick said:
Another little tip, if you aren't sure about shooting the number you get at preshot, it is best to stall, not feed and test again in 20 minutes to see if the number is rising on its own, you'll get some carb influence I think.
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Ahhhhhh that makes sense. Ok I wont do that again. So much to learn. Thank you for the tip!
 
Hi! Welcome!

From the SLGS sticky:
Until you collect enough data to know how your cat will react, we suggest following the guidelines in the FDMB's FAQ Q4.4:
Q4.4. My cat's pre-shot level was way below the usual value. Should I give the injection?
A4.4. There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines.
  • Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin.
  • Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options:
    • a.) give nothing
    • b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose)
    • c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value
  • Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise.
  • In all cases, if you are reducing or eliminating insulin, it's wise to check for ketones in the urine.
  • Above the normal pre-shot value, give the usual dose, but if the pre-shot value is consistently elevated, it's a good idea to schedule a full glucose curve to see whether a change in dose or insulin is appropriate. In most cases, the target "peak" value should not be below 100 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/L), and for some cats it might be higher.
Keep in mind these are general guidelines, and they should be personalized to your own cat's response to insulin.
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Looks like you recently switched to wet food and the results look great so far!
 
Ok that makes it much easier. I go back to my original thought, numbers were already coming up from +7. Had the numbers to preshot gone down, I'd be more worried about more of active cycle tonight, but if you feel comfortable, I don't see any issue with giving the dose and checking at +2. I used to like the +2 or +3 on Lantus because it gave me an idea of what the rest of the cycle might look like. Anything lower than preshot meant I needed to keep testing, if I saw higher than preshot, stopped testing for the night.
 
Test at +0.5 read 191, which is down from 199 a half hour ago. Did another test strip as there was still some blood and it read 211...what to do now?
 
Is a 20-point variation common in most meters? Using a Walgreens TrueMetrix meter that I had heard good things about...I guess the it's only +/-10% variation
 
Meter variance of 20% is what you are seeing, pretty much the same number since PMPS. Any previous history with ketones or diabetic ketoacidosis? It usually isn't a good idea to skip with those in the mix. It is a preshot number lower than you are used to so I understand you are unsure.

It may be that the switch to LC food is helping now, since it seems it just happened a few days ago.
 
As I said before, I can't stay with you, but I would give the usual dose, if it were me, and test to see how the cycle plays out. He may end up bouncing from the lower numbers today. Normally when someone suggests shooting a lower number they stay with that person to help.
 
Before his diagnosis he was drinking and urinating huge amounts and threw his food up twice in a week, which prompted the visit. No ketone tests done though. I want to push him into greens if possible, but worry that it's too early and I dont have enough data or experience.
 
Also, if I were to shoot now, one hour after usual time, would it shift my 12hr cycle forward or would I shoot at normal time if amps is high enough?
 
Ok, understood. Given you are unsure, and that you just recently switched to LC food, let's try .05u and still get a test at +2. If you see his numbers coming down, feed a snack and test again at +3.
 
I just tested again and 202...so I dont feel comfortable shooting. I want to make sure I choose a good night to do this. I will check in the morning, maybe +10. Seeing how I've actually been meaning to move up the time, if I skip tonight could I inject 30min or even 1 hour earlier tomorrow am?
 
Ok no worries, if you skip, you get the benefit of shooting at your usual time ;). Gotta run and check on my Mav. You'll get another opportunity to shoot lower numbers, when you are ready. Good night,

ETA: Yes, I believe you could move up the shot earlier too with the skip, of course depending on what that number is.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
Ok no worries, if you skip, you get the benefit of shooting at your usual time ;). Gotta run and check on my Mav. You'll get another opportunity to shoot lower numbers, when you are ready. Good night,

ETA: Yes, I believe you could move up the shot earlier too with the skip, of course depending on what that number is.
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Thank you so much! Hope your sugar baby is having a good night.
 
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