10/26 Spencer AMPS 344, +7 148, +10 184, PMPS 199 +1 201 NS

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by FrickAndFrack, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020
    Good Day!

    Spencer is back up to 344 this morning despite being at 251 last night.

    We have another cat, so we leave some dry food out overnight (she is used to grazing and will wake us if she is hungry at night). I assume he also ate some of the dry food which would expect his high number?! Not much was gone from the bowl, but it probably doesn't take much.

    How do others handle the multiple cats/various food situation?

    Yesterday's thread: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...4-new-low-pmps-251-3-208.237494/#post-2666616
     
  2. Katherine&Ruby

    Katherine&Ruby Well-Known Member

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    Oct 8, 2020
    I bought one microchip Sure Feed each for my two critters. It took them both a few days to acclimate to the sound and the frustration of not being able to freely eat from any bowl, but now I have my civvie's crunchies in a locked feeder where Ruby can't get to them. The feeders are expensive but worth it in my opinion because I don't have to wonder about what happens at night to the food when I'm not looking. I would put the dry food in a feeder for your healthy cat so that your sugar baby can't get to it.
     
  3. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020

    Thank you, we will look into an auto feeder, though I am not sure it's in the budget for now (maybe a good Christmas present though!). Our Piper girl knows that the wet food is not meant for her, but its oh so hard to resist! We will probably resort to only leaving a can of wet food out over night and then monitoring them when we feed during the day.
     
  4. Butters & Lyla

    Butters & Lyla Well-Known Member

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    May 30, 2020
    I also see a 208 @+3 on your spreadsheet last night. Excellent job getting that before bed test in. :woot:

    Your +3 was lower than your PMPS. When a +3 is lower or the same as a preshot number, this is often a sign that a cat will have an active cycle, that is, they may go into even lower numbers. So it's possible that the 341 this morning could be due to him bouncing high from lower numbers overnight. Without more tests, we don't know how low Spencer really got last night, though.

    Here is a paragraph that explains bouncing, taken from this sticky:

    Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

    Just something to think about. I see you're pretty new, so welcome to the board! I'm sure you've been inundated with lots of info.:) Over time, as you start to collect more BG data on Spencer, including some nighttime tests we will be able to see if he is in fact bouncing, or whether he helped himself to the dry food, or maybe a bit of both!
     
  5. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020
    Yes still learning for sure! Thank you for the info on "bouncing". I had read people refer to "bouncy cats", but didn't have a good idea of what was meant. We will try to get more post-shot data.

    It's nice to know that his 344 came right down to 148 again at +7, we will see what PMPS value gives us. Maybe tonight will be a night to monitor him more frequently.
     
  6. Butters & Lyla

    Butters & Lyla Well-Known Member

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    May 30, 2020
    You're doing a fab job! Yes, bouncing/bouncy cats are a popular topic of conversation around the board. When you have a chance, start clicking on the spreadsheets of other people's kitties and looking at their data. That was one of my favourite ways to learn when I first joined, and it still is.

    Tonight could be. Only time will tell. I know you've been advised on this before but it can't hurt to mention it again, just in case;): if Spencer is still below 200 at PMPS, it is recommended that you post the number here first and ask for help before shooting insulin. People will help you decide on whether to shoot a full/partial/no dose. It'll depend on his numbers but also on your ability to stay up to test him, your test strips supply, and your stock of mid carb and high carb foods and karo/honey.
     
    FrickAndFrack likes this.
  7. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020
    Thank you so much! Everything for our Snugglemuffin!

    Yes, I've been reading people's spreadsheets here and there. My biggest takeaway is that every cat is different and that just when it starts to seem predictable everything can change :p

    We will do PMPS in 2 hours and if we are anywhere near 200 we will post here before shooting!
     
    Vyktors Mum and Butters & Lyla like this.
  8. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020
    So here we are, PMPS of 199. Plenty of test strips, honey on hand, no Karo, no syringes, high carb dry food only...willingness to stay up, but nervous too...please advise to shoot or not!?
     
  9. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Numbers have been coming up from +7, did you feed anything at +10?
     
  10. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020
    He fed before the +10 measurement. He ate some again just now- finished his wet food.
     
  11. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2017
    Normally until you get an idea of how food influences numbers, it is best to withhold food 2 hours before shot, in case the carbs artificially inflates the preshot number. With SLGS we actually do suggest you can shoot above 150, so I would shoot. I can't stay up with you, but I would suggest getting a +2 to see where the cycle is going, and post here if you need help. Up to you.
     
  12. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020
    Will test again in 15min
     
  13. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020
    We do withhold food pre shot. So he did not eat from +10 to PMPS. After the 199 read I figured if he is hungry, which he was, I'll give him his bowl back.
     
  14. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Another little tip, if you aren't sure about shooting the number you get at preshot, it is best to stall, not feed and test again in 20 minutes to see if the number is rising on its own. What did he eat before +10, was it dry food?
     
  15. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020

    Ahhhhhh that makes sense. Ok I wont do that again. So much to learn. Thank you for the tip!
     
  16. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020
    No he is getting only wet. Fancy feast classic right now.
     
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  17. thebigfuzz

    thebigfuzz Well-Known Member

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    Mar 9, 2012
    Hi! Welcome!

    From the SLGS sticky:
    Looks like you recently switched to wet food and the results look great so far!
     
  18. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Ok that makes it much easier. I go back to my original thought, numbers were already coming up from +7. Had the numbers to preshot gone down, I'd be more worried about more of active cycle tonight, but if you feel comfortable, I don't see any issue with giving the dose and checking at +2. I used to like the +2 or +3 on Lantus because it gave me an idea of what the rest of the cycle might look like. Anything lower than preshot meant I needed to keep testing, if I saw higher than preshot, stopped testing for the night.
     
    Bandit's Mom likes this.
  19. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020
    Yeah the food has made a huge difference it seems. I will test in 5min and then make a decision.
     
  20. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020
    Test at +0.5 read 191, which is down from 199 a half hour ago. Did another test strip as there was still some blood and it read 211...what to do now?
     
  21. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020
    Is a 20-point variation common in most meters? Using a Walgreens TrueMetrix meter that I had heard good things about...I guess the it's only +/-10% variation
     
  22. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Oct 18, 2019
    If you can monitor tonight, you can shoot. 191, 199 and 211 are all within meter variance.
     
  23. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Meter variance of 20% is what you are seeing, pretty much the same number since PMPS. Any previous history with ketones or diabetic ketoacidosis? It usually isn't a good idea to skip with those in the mix. It is a preshot number lower than you are used to so I understand you are unsure.

    It may be that the switch to LC food is helping now, since it seems it just happened a few days ago.
     
  24. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    As I said before, I can't stay with you, but I would give the usual dose, if it were me, and test to see how the cycle plays out. He may end up bouncing from the lower numbers today. Normally when someone suggests shooting a lower number they stay with that person to help.
     
  25. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020
    Before his diagnosis he was drinking and urinating huge amounts and threw his food up twice in a week, which prompted the visit. No ketone tests done though. I want to push him into greens if possible, but worry that it's too early and I dont have enough data or experience.
     
  26. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020
    Also, if I were to shoot now, one hour after usual time, would it shift my 12hr cycle forward or would I shoot at normal time if amps is high enough?
     
  27. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2017
    Ok, understood. Given you are unsure, and that you just recently switched to LC food, let's try .05u and still get a test at +2. If you see his numbers coming down, feed a snack and test again at +3.
     
  28. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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  29. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020
    I just tested again and 202...so I dont feel comfortable shooting. I want to make sure I choose a good night to do this. I will check in the morning, maybe +10. Seeing how I've actually been meaning to move up the time, if I skip tonight could I inject 30min or even 1 hour earlier tomorrow am?
     
  30. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2017
    Ok no worries, if you skip, you get the benefit of shooting at your usual time ;). Gotta run and check on my Mav. You'll get another opportunity to shoot lower numbers, when you are ready. Good night,

    ETA: Yes, I believe you could move up the shot earlier too with the skip, of course depending on what that number is.
     
  31. FrickAndFrack

    FrickAndFrack Member

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    Oct 22, 2020
    Thank you so much! Hope your sugar baby is having a good night.
     
    Christie & Maverick likes this.

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