10/26 Buddy AMPS 342 PMPS 360 +2 343 +6 376
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Pat+Raja+Shadow (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 10/26 Buddy AMPS 342
Nice testing last night! :thumbup Alternating hours tonight would be good.....
Tony, you do have a supply of canned high carb gravy foods and karo syrup, right? Just want to make sure you have a supply of that. When there is a lower preshot and you shoot, it is good to give some higher carb foods which will raise the numbers.
When you get a low preshot, there are various things you can do. One is to not feed and retest in 15 minutes.
That is important. Post your number and someone should be around to help you.
But it is important to have the HC gravy food in the house at all times. We usually give a little gravy alone, not the solids, so we don't fill them up too much in case we need to keep giving more HC gravy...
Did you replay about the timed feeder? I must have missed it...did it arrive yet?
Nice testing last night! :thumbup Alternating hours tonight would be good.....
Tony, you do have a supply of canned high carb gravy foods and karo syrup, right? Just want to make sure you have a supply of that. When there is a lower preshot and you shoot, it is good to give some higher carb foods which will raise the numbers.
When you get a low preshot, there are various things you can do. One is to not feed and retest in 15 minutes.
That is important. Post your number and someone should be around to help you.
But it is important to have the HC gravy food in the house at all times. We usually give a little gravy alone, not the solids, so we don't fill them up too much in case we need to keep giving more HC gravy...
Did you replay about the timed feeder? I must have missed it...did it arrive yet?
PeterDevonMocha
Member Since 2009
Re: 10/26 Buddy AMPS 342
Come on down off that pink floor buddy .. everyones hanging out on the lower levels today! Have a great day guys!
Come on down off that pink floor buddy .. everyones hanging out on the lower levels today! Have a great day guys!
Mad Scientist and Buddy
Member Since 2010
Re: 10/26 Buddy AMPS 342
Pat,
Good morning. Let me post some more here, was in a hurry a bit ago.
Feeder, oh yeah it arrived. Works great for during the day, when I get home, he's less crazy for food and all the food is gone - I like knowing food is available to him if he feels he is going low. Feeder during the night, errr, not so good. He wakes me up and I have to show him that there is food in it and it's open. Maybe he will learn. As for the gravy/karo, yup check that, plus instructions with Vet and Emergency Vet numbers and Addy's, plus needless non-leur lock syringes (God forbid I gotta put syrup in his butt, there if necessary).
Ok, discussion time. Take these 2 pieces of info with a grain of salt, please, cause there may be another influence: When on 0.75units, his coat looked shinier, it was also closer to administration of Frontline Plus which was about a month ago. Also, when first diagnosed, his coat got shinier with the 1unit 2X BID then not so much, then more with 1.5BID then not so much. He had also had Frontline Plus administered 2 weeks before DX. Because it resides in the sebaceous glands, I venture to say Frontline is an oil or oillike and may be contributing to the shinyness of his coat. At DX the Doc even commented that his coat wasn't as ragged as she would have suspected. Also, currently, his pee volume is not as much as on the 0.75units BID. But also, we are not adding H2O to his food anymore. He threw up last night again - I had added water to the food . . . . I'm seeing a pattern there. Can't figure out why he throws up with the H2O.
Dosing. Last known dose to affect morning BG's was 0.75. So not comfortable with shooting so much (much for my cat) when he's showing a 98 in the morning. Once he goes lower, it seems he has a period of increased insulin sensitivity than before. See, 10/18 and 10/19. Even after reducing dose to 0.5 BID, he showed lower than normal number in the morning even after skipping the AM dose on 10/19 completely. I know you all swear by consistency and same dosing all the time. I've looked for other cats on the site with profiles like Buddy and haven't found any yet that go so low (relatively speaking) in the eve and so high in the morning. So unless you think I need more data, I'm planning on bumping up the dosage a bit to Fat 0.5's BID to give that a try and see where he goes. If it doesn't make the morning numbers better, I'll up it again to 0.75 until I see the drop. When I do, I'm backing off to the normal 0.5 immediately and re-evaluate from there. Like I said, it seems like once Buddy goes even close to normal, he gets more sensitive to the insulin. He's shown that time and again. Wish I had given BCD's on the mornings that he was low instead of skipping altogether. Agian, I know consistency is the norm here, but if the fat 0.5 doesn't do the trick, I'm going to have to try something less than normal as I still feel like consistent 0.75 will be too much for him.
Tony
PS. Vet is recommending 0.5 SID in the morning to see what happens. Again, this is a possibility if my next 2 steps don't show any improvement.
PPS. Oh yeah, and he is currently eating more food.
Pat,
Good morning. Let me post some more here, was in a hurry a bit ago.
Feeder, oh yeah it arrived. Works great for during the day, when I get home, he's less crazy for food and all the food is gone - I like knowing food is available to him if he feels he is going low. Feeder during the night, errr, not so good. He wakes me up and I have to show him that there is food in it and it's open. Maybe he will learn. As for the gravy/karo, yup check that, plus instructions with Vet and Emergency Vet numbers and Addy's, plus needless non-leur lock syringes (God forbid I gotta put syrup in his butt, there if necessary).
Ok, discussion time. Take these 2 pieces of info with a grain of salt, please, cause there may be another influence: When on 0.75units, his coat looked shinier, it was also closer to administration of Frontline Plus which was about a month ago. Also, when first diagnosed, his coat got shinier with the 1unit 2X BID then not so much, then more with 1.5BID then not so much. He had also had Frontline Plus administered 2 weeks before DX. Because it resides in the sebaceous glands, I venture to say Frontline is an oil or oillike and may be contributing to the shinyness of his coat. At DX the Doc even commented that his coat wasn't as ragged as she would have suspected. Also, currently, his pee volume is not as much as on the 0.75units BID. But also, we are not adding H2O to his food anymore. He threw up last night again - I had added water to the food . . . . I'm seeing a pattern there. Can't figure out why he throws up with the H2O.
Dosing. Last known dose to affect morning BG's was 0.75. So not comfortable with shooting so much (much for my cat) when he's showing a 98 in the morning. Once he goes lower, it seems he has a period of increased insulin sensitivity than before. See, 10/18 and 10/19. Even after reducing dose to 0.5 BID, he showed lower than normal number in the morning even after skipping the AM dose on 10/19 completely. I know you all swear by consistency and same dosing all the time. I've looked for other cats on the site with profiles like Buddy and haven't found any yet that go so low (relatively speaking) in the eve and so high in the morning. So unless you think I need more data, I'm planning on bumping up the dosage a bit to Fat 0.5's BID to give that a try and see where he goes. If it doesn't make the morning numbers better, I'll up it again to 0.75 until I see the drop. When I do, I'm backing off to the normal 0.5 immediately and re-evaluate from there. Like I said, it seems like once Buddy goes even close to normal, he gets more sensitive to the insulin. He's shown that time and again. Wish I had given BCD's on the mornings that he was low instead of skipping altogether. Agian, I know consistency is the norm here, but if the fat 0.5 doesn't do the trick, I'm going to have to try something less than normal as I still feel like consistent 0.75 will be too much for him.
Tony
PS. Vet is recommending 0.5 SID in the morning to see what happens. Again, this is a possibility if my next 2 steps don't show any improvement.
PPS. Oh yeah, and he is currently eating more food.
Pat+Raja+Shadow (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 10/26 Buddy AMPS 342
I'm glad you are having success with the feeder during the daytime. So, he is not eating from it during the night at all? As I mentioned, sometimes when they get a snack at +8 or +9, the numbers seem to be lower at AMPS. It would be good if he would eat from the feeder during that cycle since the AMPS are what are the focus it seems.
I am happy to see those two yellows last night....good job!
Frequent urination is a sign of FD and once they are on insulin, the excessive drinking and peeing subside. My Shadow never ever drinks from he water bowl now since he is getting water in his food. Previously, he was parked in front of the bowl. He sounded like a dog lapping up the water. It was pretty bad. So the urination will diminish and I am not sure that it had anything to do with the dose then...compared to the dose now. I think it just reflects that now he is getting insulin.
Likewise, the shiny coat comes from grooming which usually stops when they are so sick. And the canned foods can improve the coat..any oils will do that too as well as the insulin. The whole cat is improving once dx and insulin begins. Perhaps his coat will improve even more once a higher dose is reached. Does he spend time grooming and preening?
There are many cats that have lower PMPS than AMPS. I know that Tena/Curry is working on getting out of the blue AMPS and into the greens. You might have a look at her SS. Mocha/Peter & Devon also was getting pinks in the morning while having greens at night...and they tried moving the snack time back to +8 to see if it will lower the AMPS.
Manipulating the food and getting up to the right dose helps to lower the numbers and steer the low numbers too.
Maybe if you were to graph Buddy's numbers, you would see the curve at work. There is a curve as we go through the cycles...and sometimes, the lower end of the curve comes on a preshot number. It just happens sometimes. If we have the data, we can see that they will rise from this low number and go up the curve with food as the shot takes affect. We are actually not shooting the preshot number, but the numbers that will follow as the cycle moves along. That is why data is important...to see how the shot and food cause the numbers to change during the cycle. We try to find a nadir...when they are lowest...
While the nadir changes sometimes, it is a good guide for us. When do you supposed Buddy's nadir is?
The bounces to higher numbers will happen and keep on happening...until they just don't happen any more. It is something we all have to deal with, time and time again. The answer is not once a day shooting, but rather 12/12 with increasing doses until we see good numbers. The bounce comes as a reaction to a lower number, be that a yellow in the beginning to a green after we have been on insulin for awhile. I wish it weren't so, but it is so we have to just grin and bear it....
Hope that helps a little...hopefully, others will add their thoughts...hope you have a great day! :mrgreen:
I'm glad you are having success with the feeder during the daytime. So, he is not eating from it during the night at all? As I mentioned, sometimes when they get a snack at +8 or +9, the numbers seem to be lower at AMPS. It would be good if he would eat from the feeder during that cycle since the AMPS are what are the focus it seems.
I am happy to see those two yellows last night....good job!
Frequent urination is a sign of FD and once they are on insulin, the excessive drinking and peeing subside. My Shadow never ever drinks from he water bowl now since he is getting water in his food. Previously, he was parked in front of the bowl. He sounded like a dog lapping up the water. It was pretty bad. So the urination will diminish and I am not sure that it had anything to do with the dose then...compared to the dose now. I think it just reflects that now he is getting insulin.
Likewise, the shiny coat comes from grooming which usually stops when they are so sick. And the canned foods can improve the coat..any oils will do that too as well as the insulin. The whole cat is improving once dx and insulin begins. Perhaps his coat will improve even more once a higher dose is reached. Does he spend time grooming and preening?
There are many cats that have lower PMPS than AMPS. I know that Tena/Curry is working on getting out of the blue AMPS and into the greens. You might have a look at her SS. Mocha/Peter & Devon also was getting pinks in the morning while having greens at night...and they tried moving the snack time back to +8 to see if it will lower the AMPS.
Manipulating the food and getting up to the right dose helps to lower the numbers and steer the low numbers too.
Maybe if you were to graph Buddy's numbers, you would see the curve at work. There is a curve as we go through the cycles...and sometimes, the lower end of the curve comes on a preshot number. It just happens sometimes. If we have the data, we can see that they will rise from this low number and go up the curve with food as the shot takes affect. We are actually not shooting the preshot number, but the numbers that will follow as the cycle moves along. That is why data is important...to see how the shot and food cause the numbers to change during the cycle. We try to find a nadir...when they are lowest...
While the nadir changes sometimes, it is a good guide for us. When do you supposed Buddy's nadir is?
The bounces to higher numbers will happen and keep on happening...until they just don't happen any more. It is something we all have to deal with, time and time again. The answer is not once a day shooting, but rather 12/12 with increasing doses until we see good numbers. The bounce comes as a reaction to a lower number, be that a yellow in the beginning to a green after we have been on insulin for awhile. I wish it weren't so, but it is so we have to just grin and bear it....
Hope that helps a little...hopefully, others will add their thoughts...hope you have a great day! :mrgreen:
Re: 10/26 Buddy AMPS 342
The morning highs may be due to "dawn phenomenon." During the night/early morning, the body normally releases cortisol as a means of preparing the body for the stress of the day. With many cats, the AMPS is the last number to fall into line due to the way the corticosteroid influences BG values. Not all cats are effected this way but it's one piece of information you may want to factor in.
The morning highs may be due to "dawn phenomenon." During the night/early morning, the body normally releases cortisol as a means of preparing the body for the stress of the day. With many cats, the AMPS is the last number to fall into line due to the way the corticosteroid influences BG values. Not all cats are effected this way but it's one piece of information you may want to factor in.
Mad Scientist and Buddy
Member Since 2010
Re: 10/26 Buddy AMPS 342
Sienne,
For a while, I thought the higher AMPS was a bounce. But really looking at the patterns I've been seeing, I too believe it's the Dawn Phenomenon with Buddy. I'm working my way up the dosing again. He saw a reduction with 0.75. But I plan to back off a little after I see the drop. Seems like when he drops, he's more sensitive to the insulin afterwards. Just a safety plan. If after backing off, his AMPS rise again, I'll keep steady with that dose.
Pat,
Just noticed that he is less shiny with the 0.5. He may be preening less, but it's hard to tell cause he still is preening. In general, he doesn't seem as happy. Not that he was overjoyous with 0.75 either. . . but less so. Hence the increase again. Just not ready to shoot a 98 with another 0.75 on a workday morning should it come, hence dropping back a bit should I see a number like this.
Tony
Sienne,
For a while, I thought the higher AMPS was a bounce. But really looking at the patterns I've been seeing, I too believe it's the Dawn Phenomenon with Buddy. I'm working my way up the dosing again. He saw a reduction with 0.75. But I plan to back off a little after I see the drop. Seems like when he drops, he's more sensitive to the insulin afterwards. Just a safety plan. If after backing off, his AMPS rise again, I'll keep steady with that dose.
Pat,
Just noticed that he is less shiny with the 0.5. He may be preening less, but it's hard to tell cause he still is preening. In general, he doesn't seem as happy. Not that he was overjoyous with 0.75 either. . . but less so. Hence the increase again. Just not ready to shoot a 98 with another 0.75 on a workday morning should it come, hence dropping back a bit should I see a number like this.
Tony
Mad Scientist and Buddy
Member Since 2010
Re: 10/26 Buddy AMPS 342
Just been looking over the posts for today to think about them a bit more. It's not that I want/need the AMPS to be lower, my main concern is that he stays high all morning. It's clear that when he gets down into the high Blues he gets much more affectionate and relaxes more. Laying down on his side instead of scrunching down on all fours. . .
Moving dose to a fat 0.5 tonight to see where he goes.
Tony
Just been looking over the posts for today to think about them a bit more. It's not that I want/need the AMPS to be lower, my main concern is that he stays high all morning. It's clear that when he gets down into the high Blues he gets much more affectionate and relaxes more. Laying down on his side instead of scrunching down on all fours. . .
Moving dose to a fat 0.5 tonight to see where he goes.
Tony
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